Origin of E-V13

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Originally Posted by Iberians

Greek no like fish? NOOOO eat tuna and octopus

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Tuna is only fish I can eat and that’s only if it’s on pizza, other than that I could literally throw up from fish.

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Originally Posted by Daos777

West Morocco lol

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True. Do you think it originated here and then went through fertile crescent in through west and central asia into east med?

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Originally Posted by Iberians

True. Do you think it originated here and then went through fertile crescent in through west and central asia into east med?

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It split from D in the Middle East and then it back migrated into Africa. In Northern Africa is where E-M78 was born. These E men spread all over Africa taking women away from the A and B Y dna carriers. Then it came to Europe directly from North Africa into Spain and Balkans by Iberomaurusian fisherman. The other much later subclades of E from the Natufian line never made it into Europe. So it’s spread with Neolithic farmers is bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Daos777

It split from D in the Middle East and then it back migrated into Africa. In Northern Africa is where E-M78 was born. These E men spread all over Africa taking women away from the A and B Y dna carriers. Then it came to Europe directly from North Africa into Spain and Balkans by Iberomaurusian fisherman. The other much later subclades of E from the Natufian line never made it into Europe. So it’s spread with Neolithic farmers is bullshit.

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Sounds legit

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Originally Posted by Daos777

It split from D in the Middle East and then it back migrated into Africa. In Northern Africa is where E-M78 was born. These E men spread all over Africa taking women away from the A and B Y dna carriers. Then it came to Europe directly from North Africa into Spain and Balkans by Iberomaurusian fisherman. The other much later subclades of E from the Natufian line never made it into Europe. So it’s spread with Neolithic farmers is bullshit.

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This is what I'm starting to believe as well. Oldest E-V13 and E-M78 have been found in North West Africa.

:heh:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pr...SyFUQ4Y02v0uvF

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Originally Posted by Rocinante

:heh:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pr...SyFUQ4Y02v0uvF

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That is how tan I get in the winter. In the summer this is me:

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/stea...96175_full.jpg

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Originally Posted by Luso

That is how tan I get in the winter. In the summer this is me:

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/stea...96175_full.jpg

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You get tan as an E-V13! Nice man, maybe that´s the reason of why some people ask you if you are truly portuguese, it might be because you are partly albanian or greek!

Many E-M78 samples among other E clades found in Neolithic French Michelsberg culture. The only Neolithic culture so far that had an abundance of E in it and not just a few outliers like in balkan Neolithic cultures that were predominately G, and I2 (Besides cardial). Yet we think of Balkans as home of E-V13. Could've E-V13 had an east migration from western Europe? The oldest European E-V13 sample is in Spain after all. Anyways here are the sources:

On the map:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...6135984312&z=7

It was from the samples of these two recent French papers:
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344

Check table 1:
https://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2...DCSupplemental

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Originally Posted by Daos V13

...

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https://hamitic.files.wordpress.com/...hamitics33.jpg

https://hamitic.wordpress.com/

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Originally Posted by Voskos

https://hamitic.files.wordpress.com/...hamitics33.jpg

https://hamitic.wordpress.com/

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Hamitic is E-Z827 homie. We wuz speakin proto-hamitic. Gotta respect and represent the big daddy E-M78 that made it all happen.

Verteba Cave (Cucuteni-Trypillian)
descrizione
E-M78 (6000-5600 ybp)

Was the cucuteni sample E-M78 or not? I heard a member mention it was E-Z827 but this site says he was E-M78 can anyone post source I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Daos777

Many E-M78 samples among other E clades found in Neolithic French Michelsberg culture. The only Neolithic culture so far that had an abundance of E in it and not just a few outliers like in balkan Neolithic cultures that were predominately G, and I2 (Besides cardial). Yet we think of Balkans as home of E-V13. Could've E-V13 had an east migration from western Europe? The oldest European E-V13 sample is in Spain after all. Anyways here are the sources:

On the map:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...6135984312&z=7

It was from the samples of these two recent French papers:
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344

Check table 1:
https://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2...DCSupplemental

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The popular I-Y3120 or Dinaric subclade, which accounts for over 99% of I2a in Eastern Europe comes from a backward migration from the West, so who knows. Anything is possible, especially given this precedent, but I also know next to nothing about the phylogenetics of E-V13.
http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

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Originally Posted by Daos777

Verteba Cave (Cucuteni-Trypillian)
descrizione
E-M78 (6000-5600 ybp)

Was the cucuteni sample E-M78 or not? I heard a member mention it was E-Z827 but this site says he was E-M78 can anyone post source I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.

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https://i.imgur.com/5PqZtQR.png

Seems to be E-Z830.

https://haplogroup.info/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z830/
https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ame=E-CTS10298

imo the lack of ancient E-V13 samples suggest that historically it was not very widespread but the few V13 men were able to expand as a result of Indo-European expansion. The Glinoe sample fits very well with the TMRCA of E-V13.

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Originally Posted by Daos777

Many E-M78 samples among other E clades found in Neolithic French Michelsberg culture. The only Neolithic culture so far that had an abundance of E in it and not just a few outliers like in balkan Neolithic cultures that were predominately G, and I2 (Besides cardial). Yet we think of Balkans as home of E-V13. Could've E-V13 had an east migration from western Europe? The oldest European E-V13 sample is in Spain after all. Anyways here are the sources:

On the map:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...6135984312&z=7

It was from the samples of these two recent French papers:
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344

Check table 1:
https://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2...DCSupplemental

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Have they been tested downstream? If not, and if they turn out to be E-V13, then it could very well be possible that they migrated eastwards.

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

Have they been tested downstream? If not, and if they turn out to be E-V13, then it could very well be possible that they migrated eastwards.

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No, but the yDNA distribution at the Salauger site was 55% I2 and 45% E. Maybe they returned together to Eastern Europe and after some time became each other's arch nemesis, one clan took the name of Serbs and the other one of Albanians :lol: .

https://i.imgur.com/5xeG1vX.png

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Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

No, but the yDNA distribution at the Salauger site was 55% I2 and 45% E. Maybe they returned together to Eastern Europe and after some time became each other's arch nemesis, one clan took the name of Serbs and the other one of Albanians :lol: .

https://i.imgur.com/5xeG1vX.png

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Thats crazy there is one E-L168, directly ancestral to V13.

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

Have they been tested downstream? If not, and if they turn out to be E-V13, then it could very well be possible that they migrated eastwards.

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I mean given the ages of the samples nothing disproves a east to west migration yet because that cardial sample is about 8,000 years old and these samples are around 6,000 +- 500. It's just weird how the frequency of E-M78 is so high in this culture compared to balkan and other neolithic samples. And we even have more E-M78 samples in Hungary compared to balkans.

The main problem is we still don't know if E-M78 was assimilated in Europe or brought by Cardial culture because we have 0 E-M78 samples from the proposed Cardial homeland. If any E-M78 ancestral to E-V13 is EVER found in levant I would be less skeptical about this theory.

Also, the Spanish sample is also around 7,500-8,000 years old and I can't find the source for it so if you guys have it please post it.

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

Thats crazy there is one E-L168, directly ancestral to V13.

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xL618 means that they tested for L618, but it was negative

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Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

No, but the yDNA distribution at the Salauger site was 55% I2 and 45% E. Maybe they returned together to Eastern Europe and after some time became each other's arch nemesis, one clan took the name of Serbs and the other one of Albanians :lol: .
https://i.imgur.com/5xeG1vX.png

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Wait no Y-DNA G samples in a Neolithic site? How is that even possible lol.

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Originally Posted by Daos777

Wait no Y-DNA G samples in a Neolithic site? How is that even possible lol.

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It seems like a mix of Hunter Gatherer lineages (I) and whatever (E) were have grouped together and perhaps didn't let any outsiders in. G's were not invited basically.

This is the site

E-V13 mutated/emerged in the Balkans thousands of years ago.

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Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

It seems like a mix of Hunter Gatherer lineages (I) and whatever (E) were have grouped together and perhaps didn't let any outsiders in. G's were not invited basically.

This is the site

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"The skeleton of a man showed numerous traces of violence on several parts of his anatomy, notably on the skull. The individual's left arm was also severed. Even more exceptional detail, beneath these eight skeletons were the remains of eight left arms. The latter present invoices at the level of the humerus and at the level of the forearms. Several indications seem to suggest that the arms were cut using a heavy and sharp ax-like object and that the flesh was still present on the bones. In the absence of written sources for this period, we cannot know the type of event which could have engendered so much violence, but it is certain that these burials go beyond the strictly funerary framework."

These niggas were chimping the fuck out in the neolithic lmao.

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Originally Posted by Daos777

"The skeleton of a man showed numerous traces of violence on several parts of his anatomy, notably on the skull. The individual's left arm was also severed. Even more exceptional detail, beneath these eight skeletons were the remains of eight left arms. The latter present invoices at the level of the humerus and at the level of the forearms. Several indications seem to suggest that the arms were cut using a heavy and sharp ax-like object and that the flesh was still present on the bones. In the absence of written sources for this period, we cannot know the type of event which could have engendered so much violence, but it is certain that these burials go beyond the strictly funerary framework."

These niggas were chimping the fuck out in the neolithic lmao.

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https://i.redd.it/kwgcflkeuub51.png

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Originally Posted by Daos777

I mean given the ages of the samples nothing disproves a east to west migration yet because that cardial sample is about 8,000 years old and these samples are around 6,000 +- 500. It's just weird how the frequency of E-M78 is so high in this culture compared to balkan and other neolithic samples. And we even have more E-M78 samples in Hungary compared to balkans.

The main problem is we still don't know if E-M78 was assimilated in Europe or brought by Cardial culture because we have 0 E-M78 samples from the proposed Cardial homeland. If any E-M78 ancestral to E-V13 is EVER found in levant I would be less skeptical about this theory.

Also, the Spanish sample is also around 7,500-8,000 years old and I can't find the source for it so if you guys have it please post it.

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We have plenty of samples from the Levant and the fact that none of them are ancestral to E-V13 makes me very skeptical about any Levantine linked origin of E-V13. There is also a lack of E-M78 in modern populations of the Levant.

Did you guys see this? Loads of E folk from Bulgaria are waiting to be published. There is an Iron Age E-V13, which will make it the second E-V13 in the region after the Iron Age Moldovan from Stefan Voda district.

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Originally Posted by Taken from Anthrogenica

Recently came to my attention a few videos, which claim a new big project about testing old bones from different periods in Bulgaria. This will be between Dr.Reich's Harvard Lab and the Bulgarian Archaeological Institute.
It seems the Harvard lab has some unpublished results from the study The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe. They appear for a short time on the screen of this video (around 6:00 min) but are covered by the head and are a mirror image. I managed to see that all assigned haplogroups from the Bulgarian Iron age are some kind of E:
https://sedemosmi.tv/production/%d1%...2-2020-%d0%b3/


There is one E1b1b1a1b1a - V13, 2 E1b1b1a1b1 - L618 and one given only as E. They are from Kapitan Andreevo-Svilengrad area, this is South East Bulgaria, close to the Turkish/Greek border. From this area is also the previous low coverage Thracian samples, worked out as M78. This is the hinterland of the Odrysian Thracian kingdom and there is a reason to believe that the Thracians from the Classical period are also predominantly V13.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odrysian_kingdom


The guy on the video also mentioned that one Medieval sample from 9th c. Central Bulgaria has been proven Q1a2a. According to him, this must be some Old Bulgar, however not completely sure in not an Avar. He is paddling the Iran-Caucasus origin of the Old Bulgars, something most Bulgarians don't agree with. At any case more bones will be tested with this new project and the truth will be revealed at last.

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So:

1) An Anatolian/Levant origin is not credible because there are no E-V13 people there anymore;

2) A North-African origin seems strange since there don't seem to be proper migration patterns.

We're aliens?

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Originally Posted by WeirdLookingFellow

So:

1) An Anatolian/Levant origin is not credible because there are no E-V13 people there anymore;

2) A North-African origin seems strange since there don't seem to be proper migration patterns.

We're aliens?

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It could be pretty simple actually. Upstream from V13 is L618, which was found only in Europe since the Neolithic.

https://i.ibb.co/0VY6m8n/image.png

Then upstream from L618 is Z1919, which wasn't identified in ancients. If we go further up, we get to M78, which is the branch that confuses people, because there are hits in Iberomarusians and one Levantine sample.
It is obvious that the oldest samples discovered so far are in North Africa and only after 7000 years it appears in Levant (Jordan). The ancestors of L618 could have either:

• All come from North Africa
• All come from the Levant
• A combination of the two; one migration route through Spain and another through Anatolia

https://i.ibb.co/LSrkYmN/image.png

Probably Copper Age-Bronze Age movements from West Asia into Europe.

Probably a similar story as my mtdna.

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Originally Posted by CordedWhelp

Probably Copper Age-Bronze Age movements from West Asia into Europe.

Probably a similar story as my mtdna.

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No culture in Copper-Bronze age west Asia had significant amounts of E-M78 > E-V13. A 7,000 year old skeleton in Spain had E-V13.

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Originally Posted by EV13Scythian

No culture in Copper-Bronze age west Asia had significant amounts of E-M78 > E-V13. A 7,000 year old skeleton in Spain had E-V13.

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Why did you get banned dao?

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Originally Posted by TheMaestro

Why did you get banned dao?

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Who? My name is Imran Zakhaev.

Facial reconstruction of the oldest E-V13

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ccanBerber.jpg

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Originally Posted by EV13Scythian

Who? My name is Imran Zakhaev.

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rep me reason nibba

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Originally Posted by Dr_Maul

Facial reconstruction of the oldest E-V13

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ccanBerber.jpg

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I see the resemblence with me.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Maul

Facial reconstruction of the oldest E-V13

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ccanBerber.jpg

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That’s after E men clapped the native sub saharan negroid cheeks and gave birth to half negroids. I’m pretty sure autosomally fully ANA(Ancestral North African, where E even came from) looked quite unique, neither negroid nor Eurasian.

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Originally Posted by TheMaestro

Why did you get banned dao?

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Is that not fucking Bakha? He is E-V13 too.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Maul

Facial reconstruction of the oldest E-V13

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ccanBerber.jpg

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scytho-negroid

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Originally Posted by Dr_Maul

Facial reconstruction of the oldest E-V13

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ccanBerber.jpg

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My nigga