Pontic Greek Gedmatch results

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05-07-2020, 08:31 PM
Renekton

The results of OP test are typical for a Greek Pontic?
05-07-2020, 08:31 PM
Tauromachos

Quote:

Originally Posted by catgeorge

I don't care what White Nationalist accept

:thumb001:

Quote:

Slavo-Avar Turanid input is non existent in Greek phenotypes.

West Asian Caucasian sure
East Med Mediterranean sure

:thumb001:
05-07-2020, 08:31 PM
catgeorge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolguy1

I guess the thousands of Slavic placenames in Greece just sprung up out of nowhere?

Yes they have....

Just tell me how long it took Greeks in America to lose their Greek language - 20-30 years?

Does it mean they are English?

It's not black and white - South Slavs are very distant genetically to the Greek average.
05-07-2020, 08:34 PM
Coolguy1

Quote:

Originally Posted by catgeorge

Yes they have....

Just tell me how long it took Greeks in America to lose their Greek language - 20-30 years?

Does it mean they are English?

It's not black and white - South Slavs are very distant genetically to the Greek average.

Thank you for the laugh. Believe what you'd like.
05-07-2020, 08:36 PM
catgeorge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolguy1

Thank you for the laugh. Believe what you'd like.

Kalomira is English.
05-07-2020, 08:59 PM
Tauromachos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolguy1

I guess the thousands of Slavic placenames in Greece just sprung up out of nowhere?

Yes you guess correct
05-07-2020, 09:05 PM
brennus dux gallorum

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientGreek

The model isn't perfect so for some reason the Kura-Araxes admixure of I9010 is going into Iran_N and Levant_N instead. Kos are one of the most west Asian shifted out of all Greek islanders so of course them having elevated levels is not weird. I am not claiming that Dodecanese islanders are not shifted in different ways, they are mixed with Anatolians who might have resembled somethng like Cypriots but with less Levantine. Cretans are the ones that most resemble the original admixture (ignoring Calabrians, who could just be most similar through chance) but they also too are shifted with extra Steppe. Truth is, none of this matters, I just feel like some people here are claiming that ancient Greeks are super north shifted when they aren't. Also, the only haplogroups we found from ancient Greeks were J2 and G2, correct? We don't have many samples to go off, but when do you think E-V13 became the dominant haplogroup of mainlander Greeks?

Ev13 is not dominant in mainland only, but in all of Greece (aegean islands included) except for Macedonia and Crete, with the latter being the only one with J2 above all haplogroups

anyway, i am not aware about the ancient sample's accuracy to respond to this last one

but certainly Crete is the closest to mycaenean results, with higher steppe than dodecanese and lower than mainland
05-07-2020, 09:18 PM
Bosniensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by catgeorge

Yes they have....

Just tell me how long it took Greeks in America to lose their Greek language - 20-30 years?

Does it mean they are English?

It's not black and white - South Slavs are very distant genetically to the Greek average.

Yes we are.

But remember that original autosomal composition of I2 people is Western Mediterranean like with Sardinians.

The fact we had to take Avar, Hun women as explained in our history books is another thing.

The reason why Greeks are genetically pure is because we fought in the north to repel invasions so you can live.
05-07-2020, 10:27 PM
catgeorge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bosniensis

Yes we are.

But remember that original autosomal composition of I2 people is Western Mediterranean like with Sardinians.

The fact we had to take Avar, Hun women as explained in our history books is another thing.

The reason why Greeks are genetically pure is because we fought in the north to repel invasions so you can live.

We are not genetically pure - we have much to do with our neighbours which is natural.. people simply confuse genetic input with shared ancestry and use it as a political agenda instead of celebrating that shared ancestry.
05-08-2020, 12:01 AM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDorian

My evidence is what studies have been made until now about Greek genetics that don't attest an enormous impact of Slavs
or 30% Slav genes in Greece the fact that Greeks resemble about 70% the Mycanaeans and are closest modern populations along with Italians,Albos,Cypriots

Also the paper on Balto Slav genetics which you yourself referred to in the past and which groups Greeks far away from
Slavic people outside the Balkan and Balts and also marks a clear separation between Balkanic Slavs and Greeks

And what i see and what i see when i'm in Greece is not Slavic looking people the phenotype of Greeks in crowds even for Mainland Greeks feels very different from any Slavic ethnic they simply don't look like Slavs as a whole ,every idiot can go to Greece and can see that for himself i have no reason to lie,people here can claim whatever they want it doesn't change it

Lol, hypothetical 70% wog and 30% Slavic group won't end up looking looking Slavic, that's for sure xD
Slavic admixture in mainland Greeks is similar to white admixture in Aframs, don't worry, they don't look Anglo.
05-08-2020, 12:08 AM
Dorian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Lol, hypothetical 70% wog and 30% Slavic group won't end up looking looking Slavic, that's for sure xD
Slavic admixture in mainland Greeks is similar to white admixture in Aframs, don't worry, they don't look Anglo.

Same applies to illyroafram croatians ;) don't worry they don't look anglo(not even westmed :laugh: )
05-08-2020, 12:55 AM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorian

Same applies to illyroafram croatians ;) don't worry they don't look anglo(not even westmed :laugh: )

True, Croats don't look Illyrian just like Greeks don't look Slavic.
You are wogs.
05-08-2020, 01:07 AM
Dorian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

True, Croats don't look Illyrian just like Greeks don't look Slavic.
You are wogs.

lol no you just admitted wog phenotype=native illyrian in your case is dominant over slavic ,can't turn it around now...you owned yourself.
05-08-2020, 01:12 AM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorian

lol no you just admitted wog phenotype=native illyrian in your case is dominant over slavic ,can't turn it around now...you owned yourself.

No retard. Because if we look Illyrian you look Slavic :laugh:
Which you ofcourse don't, neither we do.

You simply don't have enough Slavic blood to look the part, neither we have enough Illyrian blood to look the part.
And yes, I still find it funny how badly Slavic you want to be. I understand it ofc, Slavs are absolutely best people in Europe, luckily I am one.

But if I weren't like you are not, I would secretly want to be one. Maybe in another life, dear.
05-08-2020, 01:18 AM
catgeorge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

No retard. Because if we look Illyrian you look Slavic :laugh:
Which you ofcourse don't, neither we do.

You simply don't have enough Slavic blood to look the part, neither we have enough Illyrian blood to look the part.
And yes, I still find it funny how badly Slavic you want to be. I understand it ofc, Slavs are absolutely best people in Europe, luckily I am one.

But if I weren't like you are not, I would secretly want to be one. Maybe in another life, dear.

Shove off Barbarian.
05-08-2020, 01:30 AM
Dorian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

No retard. Because if we look Illyrian you look Slavic :laugh:
Which you ofcourse don't, neither we do.

You simply don't have enough Slavic blood to look the part, neither we have enough Illyrian blood to look the part.
And yes, I still find it funny how badly Slavic you want to be. I understand it ofc, Slavs are absolutely best people in Europe, luckily I am one.

But if I weren't like you are not, I would secretly want to be one. Maybe in another life, dear.

You just project ,stop trying to "read" me with autistic fantasies ,you fail..we don't share worldview.

The point isn't about us or me ..but how you admitted that wog/afram genetics(like your native ones) are dominant over slavic ones yet you don't apply the same logic to your people.. cause you're such snowflakes that you escape basic genetic laws ,right?
05-08-2020, 02:27 AM
Konstantinos

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientGreek

The problem is that you keep insinuating that ancient Greeks were more 'northern' shifted than they actually were. You do realize they came from Anatolia, right? And, their admixture was mostly Early Farmer mixed with some Kura-Araxes. Their steppe admixture was extremely minminal, so if we actually got Indo-European language from Yamnaya they didn't effect the admixture much of Greek or Anatolian cultures that picked up IE languages much at all.

Now, modern mainlanders except for Cretans and Greek islanders have completely lost the Kura-Araxes admixture and gained more Yamnaya admixture. When do you think this event occured? I know there is a big lack of ancient Greek samples, and if we have some from even the early AD period we'd be able to confirm or deny certain theories. But I don't know why you would be ashamed to have some slight South Slavic admixture anyways. Many Greeks have Albanian and Bulgarian ancestry, why do you not like the idea of that?

About language and culture - the people who moved into Greece were not 100% Slavs. They were our northern neighbours who already had some Slavic admixture, AKA south Slavs. You seem to think they are the same as a Ukrainian or something, but they're not. The admixture is similar to ours but lacking the Kura-Araxes as I showed before, now you need to stop coming up with conspiracy theories - mainland Greece was never isolated like Iceland so I'm not sure why you're making a comparison.

Honest question here, do you think Greek admixture remained the same during these events?

https://i.imgur.com/EYf0Gfv.gif
https://i.imgur.com/4gxJdOh.gif
https://i.imgur.com/V19gJzO.gif

I doubt it, but I'm open to hear why you don't believe admixture did not change when there is so much evidence it did.

Myceanaean Greeks we have an idea how they were, it`s that unless newer samples show otherwise. Dorians, assimilation of Thracians and of course actual results of Greeks from northern than Peloponnese. These parameters are needed to know what Greeks were before Slavic invasion.

Slavs invaded swiftly, that`s a fact. They were absolutely like Ukrainians and Poles probably, again samples needed.

Why a need to have Slav/Albanian ancestry? Albanians were so few in numbers historically virtually impossible to have affected more than 0.1%(my non-scientific estimate since I actually don`t pretend to know everything). Is this a fetish or what?

I`m half Northern Thracian aka northernmost Greek so probably this side is the most "Slavic" of all Greeks. Quote the "ashamed" in my posts or I call agenda. I`m interested in facts.
05-08-2020, 02:30 AM
AncientGreek

Quote:

Originally Posted by brennus dux gallorum

Ev13 is not dominant in mainland only, but in all of Greece (aegean islands included) except for Macedonia and Crete, with the latter being the only one with J2 above all haplogroups

anyway, i am not aware about the ancient sample's accuracy to respond to this last one

but certainly Crete is the closest to mycaenean results, with higher steppe than dodecanese and lower than mainland

Haplogroups among my matches:

https://imgur.com/x7kG7ly.png

E-V13 certainly not dominant in the Dodecanese. And nearly all those E-V13 among my matches are mainlanders, only a very small number of them are 100% islanders. :coffee:

If you have 23andme, you can check distribution of match YDNA here: https://archaichellene.github.io/AncientGreek/ (Not tested much so no guarantee it works for you.)

Of course, it's not perfect, as there are some non-Greek matches or half/quarter/part Greek matches that have some different haplogroups.
05-08-2020, 02:33 AM
Konstantinos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

https://www.google.hr/search?q=slavi...EHr3XDUd9dMm6M

I really don't understand why some Greeks deny well documented Slavic settlement in Greece.
Even to this day there are slavophone villages in northern Greece, after all that assimilation.

I know Slavs invaded Greece. Do you have evidence how many were assimilated? Because I have evidence that a sizable number of them were deported.
05-08-2020, 02:44 AM
AncientGreek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konstantinos

.

If you're interested in facts, then did you know the commonly predicted population of Albanians (who live in many countries around the Balkans, not just Albania) is around 10 million? Did you know the predicted number of Arvanites that lived in Greece was over 250,000? Please don't pretend like these are small numbers, and stop saying there's an agenda here. It's all facts, you can look it up yourself.
05-08-2020, 02:47 AM
Dorian

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientGreek

Haplogroups among my matches:

If you have 23andme, you can check distribution of match YDNA here:
Of course, it's not perfect, as there are some non-Greek matches or half/quarter/part Greek matches that have some different haplogroups.

What kind of site is this?there's no home page.. also is there any of filtering of your matches after you upload the data?
05-08-2020, 02:50 AM
AncientGreek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorian

What kind of site is this?there's no home page.. also is there any of filtering of your matches after you upload the data?

No, I can add more features later. It is all done in Javascript so there's actually no upload. The relatives .csv file can be downloaded from this link: https://you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/download/
05-08-2020, 03:19 AM
Dorian

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientGreek

If you're interested in facts, then did you know the commonly predicted population of Albanians (who live in many countries around the Balkans, not just Albania) is around 10 million? Did you know the predicted number of Arvanites that lived in Greece was over 250,000? Please don't pretend like these are small numbers, and stop saying there's an agenda here. It's all facts, you can look it up yourself.

Their modern population count is irrelevant ,why mention it? in 1600 albania area had a population of 200k (and not all "albanians" obviously) ,just one century later they were 300k..go burther back ,think about the clan culture and you can understand how they became "homogeneous" or how founder effects could take place.

I agree that we must be objective but there's nothing objective/that has been settled about Arvanites(+Vlachs too) or the origin of albanian language/when it came yet..things could be more complicated than a g25 calculator..I wouldn't like to discuss this further though , just let time show.

What source has Arvanites at 250k though?
05-08-2020, 03:22 AM
Konstantinos

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientGreek

If you're interested in facts, then did you know the commonly predicted population of Albanians (who live in many countries around the Balkans, not just Albania) is around 10 million? Did you know the predicted number of Arvanites that lived in Greece was over 250,000? Please don't pretend like these are small numbers, and stop saying there's an agenda here. It's all facts, you can look it up yourself.

Haha now it`s just funny. Modern inflated numbers when talking about Middle Ages. Also omitting the fact that Arvanites lived only in certain areas and many of them left for Italy. Anyone with complete knowledge knows Albanians boomed demographically from an extremely small population. Meanwhile anthropologists have long noted that Tosks look much more "Med" than Ghegs :cool: Certainly Albanians in Greece can be spotted from across the street. Ridiculous :picard2:
05-08-2020, 03:24 AM
Hudayar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

You have strong Med shift, interesting. Basically half Kavkazian half east med/aegan
Ashkenazi are pretty close to south Italians and Greek Islanders.

Ashkenazi could just mean Anatolian, since I have seen Jews plotting close to Hittites.
05-08-2020, 03:30 AM
Hudayar

This is quite strange. You lack any East Asian/Siberian contribution, usually for Turks it's between 5-15%, can go up to 22% depending on the person, yet you score close to Turks and even to Azeris.

I'm assuming this is because of noticeable European contribution combined with East Mediterranean heritage. Compared to Armenians/Anatolian-Greeks, Turks score higher European due to Yamnaya heritage. You might not be fully Pontian though since your results are wildly different from others.

The European admixture can't be described with Greek heritage since Greeks themselves are around 30% at best. A fully Pontic person having 20% doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The average there is literally 1%
05-08-2020, 04:46 AM
Dorian

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientGreek

No, I can add more features later. It is all done in Javascript so there's actually no upload. The relatives .csv file can be downloaded from this link: https://you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/download/

Funny thing is just yesterday I sorted ydna(+mt) of my matches ,browsed them one by one..wondered If there's some tool but didn't bother to search.
Anyways out of almost 1400 matches only around -/+ 10% were relevant to use for both (Greek side from mixed people included)...

N=130
E-v13 23,8%
I2 15,38%
R1b 13,85%
J2 3,84%
J2a 10%
R1a 7,69%
Other E-clades 5,38%
J2b 5,38%
G 4,61%
Ι1 3,84%
J1 2,30%
T 2,30%
L-L595 0,79%
N-M178 0,79%

I could break them apart to subclades but I guess it's meaningless for such size.
05-08-2020, 05:40 AM
Tauromachos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konstantinos

I know Slavs invaded Greece. Do you have evidence how many were assimilated? Because I have evidence that a sizable number of them were deported.

Slavs tried to invade Greece a number of time and were kicked out

Bulgarians who were among the worst and most brutal were fucked by Basil II with his army and since then never tried again

End of story
05-08-2020, 05:43 AM
Mingle

Quote:

Originally Posted by catgeorge

There is no Polish nor Ukranian input in Greece other than recent migrants.

So then how do you explain the high IBD sharing that Greeks have with Poles and Ukrainians?

https://i.imgur.com/tlLVmNo.png

The graph above was made by a Greek person (Dienekes).
05-08-2020, 05:43 AM
Renekton

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDorian

Slavs tried to invade Greece a number of time and were kicked out

Bulgarians who were among the worst and most brutal were fucked by Basil II with his army and since then never tried again

End of story

Nope
05-08-2020, 05:52 AM
Tauromachos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Lol, hypothetical 70% wog and 30% Slavic group won't end up looking looking Slavic, that's for sure xD
Slavic admixture in mainland Greeks is similar to white admixture in Aframs, don't worry, they don't look Anglo.

Modern Greeks are about 70% Mycanaean like plus 30% other

I doubt that the rest 30% is all from Slavs who came to the Balkans in the Middle Ages

Quote:

Slavic admixture in mainland Greeks is similar to white admixture in Aframs, don't worry, they don't look Anglo

https://oslosweatershop.com/268-larg...ng-h-17-cm.jpg https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20110114060846
And you are a Gypsy you are Celine's twin sister
05-08-2020, 05:56 AM
Tauromachos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hahns

Nope

Yes
05-08-2020, 05:56 AM
Tauromachos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterski

This is Spartan admixture in Winged Hussars.

Spartans had nothing to do with Poles
05-08-2020, 05:57 AM
AncientGreek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorian

Funny thing is just yesterday I sorted ydna(+mt) of my matches ,browsed them one by one..wondered If there's some tool but didn't bother to search.
Anyways out of almost 1400 matches only around -/+ 10% were relevant to use for both (Greek side from mixed people included)...

N=130
E-v13 23,8%
I2 15,38%
R1b 13,85%
J2 3,84%
J2a 10%
R1a 7,69%
Other E-clades 5,38%
J2b 5,38%
G 4,61%
Ι1 3,84%
J1 2,30%
T 2,30%
L-L595 0,79%
N-M178 0,79%

I could break them apart to subclades but I guess it's meaningless for such size.

Here is result with naive filter and allowing some other E clades (not just E-V13) and rarer clades in table (filter = only surnames ending with 's', not perfect but if you have a suggestion for a good one let me know):

https://imgur.com/mRXjbEw.png

I made it just earlier today, so even if you searched you could not find it before!
05-08-2020, 06:07 AM
brennus dux gallorum

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientGreek

Haplogroups among my matches:

https://imgur.com/x7kG7ly.png

E-V13 certainly not dominant in the Dodecanese. And nearly all those E-V13 among my matches are mainlanders, only a very small number of them are 100% islanders. :coffee:

If you have 23andme, you can check distribution of match YDNA here: https://archaichellene.github.io/AncientGreek/ (Not tested much so no guarantee it works for you.)

Of course, it's not perfect, as there are some non-Greek matches or half/quarter/part Greek matches that have some different haplogroups.

I don't know about dodecanese in particular but 20% of Greek islanders carry ev13

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...logroups.shtml

Which is not a big difference from peloponnese 27%, sobi suspect that it's more like dodecanese is an outlier in the particular case. Still there's no historical event that could increase ev13 in the mainland, it doesn't sound strange to have always been dominant in central and parts of northern Greece (like thessaly) in particular
05-08-2020, 06:13 AM
Tauromachos

@Ancient Greek

Turce beliyorum?
05-08-2020, 06:20 AM
Renekton

Greeks are 70% Mycenaean like and 30% Slavic. I agree with this. Feiichy is right
05-08-2020, 06:21 AM
Renekton

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDorian

Yes

Slavs exist even today in modern Greek state, even hellenized Albanians aka Arvanites today
05-08-2020, 06:22 AM
Dorian

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientGreek

Here is result with naive filter and allowing some other E clades (not just E-V13) and rarer clades in table (filter = only surnames ending with 's', not perfect but if you have a suggestion for a good one let me know):

I made it just earlier today, so even if you searched you could not find it before!

Not really familiar with program things but If possible ,make it target those whose paternal grandfather part has Greece I guess?
05-08-2020, 06:22 AM
AncientGreek

Quote:

Originally Posted by brennus dux gallorum

I don't know about dodecanese in particular but 20% of Greek islanders carry ev13

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...logroups.shtml

Which is not a big difference from peloponnese 27%, sobi suspect that it's more like dodecanese is an outlier in the particular case. Still there's no historical event that could increase ev13 in the mainland, it doesn't sound strange to have always been dominant in central and parts of northern Greece (like thessaly) in particular

Do you know what source this eupedia website is using? For all I know, it is basing E-V13 of Aegean islands that were repopulated with mainlanders. :icon_rolleyes:

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