I think the obsession about irrelevant stuff like this, (which truth be told reminds me of women arguing about make-up colours) is the reason for which Apricity can't attract more and more cultured members for the political/historical/news sections :SQuote:
Originally Posted by Lábaru
Oh, OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by safinator
it's a fact that in late mycenaean times cremation and central european type of weapons appeared in greece , however it's not 100% sure that these innovations were imported by the "ancestors of the Dorians" or rather by few northern immigrants that had been absorbed by the autochthonous populationQuote:
Originally Posted by ABest
http://books.google.it/books?id=zAY4...page&q&f=false
Yes, I agree, population movements from central Europe were inevitable at all times, though not at very large scales, as you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reozek
this thread is actually focused on history (at least in the beginning) , % of blond hair , light eyes etc alone are almost irrelevant , just a curiosity , anyway they can help to trace migration happened in prehistoric/historical times..:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Baluarte
In my family,
My father: dark hair and brown eyes.
My mother: blonde hair and light green eyes.
My sister: blonde hair and brown eyes.
My son: blonde hair and blue eyes.
My nephew: blonde hair and blue eyes.
My paternal grandpas: both brown hair and eyes.
My maternal grandpas: he had light brown and green eyes, and she had dark hair and blue eyes.
My maternal uncles: Two of them are blonde and light green eyes. One of them dark and brown eyes.
My cousins: Two of them are blonde and light green eyes. Four of them are dark/brown eyes/hair.
Cousins of my mother: One of them is blonde hair and blue eyes. Three of them are brown hair/eyes.
Uncle of my mother: Brown hair and green eyes.
This is all my family that I know :noidea:
From 23 people, 11 of them have light traits.
I think light traits have always been in southern Europe, although they will have no doubt been increased a bit if northerners came to settle in the south.
That is the simple truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson
Even in the Spanish ex-colonies light traits exist from the native stock of people. My mother has emerald green eyes, my great grandmother has bluegreen eyes, and even though I never met him, my great grandfather had light brown hair and blue eyes.
Other than marginal German blood in the region, no North European genetics exist.
True. According to IBD done last year i think, the Iberian peninsula has been relatively stable over the last few thousand years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baluarte
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baluarte
There are also indigenous people with mixed/light eyes...
http://www.lenovae.it/wp-content/upl...08/indios1.jpg
For what I've seen, the lightest eyes eyes they have are medium or light brown, like that girl.
It depends also by population...i know some pure quechuas with almost black eyes...while some amazonians can have hazel eyes like this girl...don't mention also to the guaranì from the Chaco Paraguayo, but many of them are mixed with chaco germans so they aren't ''pure''.
President Alfredo Stroessner was 1/4 guarani himself and had azure eyes
what about the diffusion of the gene for lactose digestion ? it seems that before the bronze age it was even less widespread than today in Southern europe
I don't know about the particular gene, but Iberia does seem to have lower levels of lactose intolerance than most of the rest of southern Europe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Reozek
http://i43.tinypic.com/2m41smo.gif
^ Source of that map?
Don't know actually, i'll see if i can find a more reliable one.
That map shows the frequency and spread of the lactase persistence T-13910 allele of the LCT gene. HARDLY reliable.
EDIT Here is a map showing lactose persistence phenotype frequencies.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-snKmMS7WKp...requencies.png
Apparently it lacks samples from the Balkans and South Eastern Iberia, so it could be wrong.
Is normal that Iberia to have a high tolerance to lactose because genetically is the area of southern Europe with more genes from central/Atlantic area and northern Europe.
Anyway every map says something different, not very realiable.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2m41smo.gif
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image...003703-gr5.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dRj9DN75eu...actase+map.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_la...0uujo1_500.png
I suppose that's for european spanish influence...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyrol
That india I dont think she has spanish influence, frankly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
This picture was taken in the early 90s and this girl is from a guanary tribe in the brazilian-paraguayan border...this tribe firstly met the ''civilization'' in 1985 so i really doubt that there are any euro influences...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
She is from Brazil. And looks 100% native.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
the question is when these genes appeared in Iberia ? :confused: from what i know in S.Europe the first migrations from the North since at least the mesolithic happened during the late copper age/early bronze age with the indoeuropeans :Quote:
Originally Posted by Lábaru
early bronze age - Bell Beaker reflux from C.Europe (Proto-Celts ?)
late bronze age - Urnfield expansion from C.Europe (Proto-Celts , Italics , Illyrians ,Phrygians etc..)
early iron age - Hallstatt expansion (Celts)
Spare me your sarcasm. That map is unsourced and so unreliable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lábaru
Here is the source of the map posted by me.
A worldwide correlation of lactase persistence phenotype and genotypes
Yuval Itan1,2*, Bryony L Jones1, Catherine JE Ingram1, Dallas M Swallow1 and Mark G Thomas1,2,3
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/10/36
^ That study looks like a mess. Apparently they have computed the average value from these 2 studies: De Ritis et al 1983 and Cavalli Sforza et al 1987.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/48...e2=tf_ipsecsha
Btw it's obvious that Ritis et al with only 9 samples is not very reliabe. Cavalli Sforza gives the value of 41% for S.Italians.
... And where is the proof of this exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Solin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeucismQuote:
Originally Posted by Peyrol
Indeed, ethnic northern italians are considerably lighter than southern ones. Many venetians, piedmontese lombards or friulians i have met resemble austrians or swiss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyrol
No.
Well southern Europeans are depigmented by human standards so it only follows that much of the light features there will be naturally occurring. And given that there has been more recent movement there across the Mediterranean perhaps the question should be more like the other way round. Wouldn't surprise me if they were lighter a few thousand years ago than today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantic Islander
:laugh: reading the first page now, but im sure if i click on the last page its turned into a flameware
Yes and No. But generally No.
here is another native american with light eyesQuote:
Originally Posted by Peyrol
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7zsCtp0QzD...0/DHP_7315.jpg
light traits in southern europe is due the levantines who colonized it,
Minority tendences to light features there is also in the Mediterranean subrace. Also Alpine and Dinaric have this tendencies.
is well hard to believe in the border region and well populated. uncontacted tribes exist only in the Amazon! probably this girl comes from her, and she is not GuaraniQuote:
Originally Posted by Peyrol
I'm curious! how do you know that your appearance is from someone 100% native?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Delarge
Light traits in southern Europe are at least partially Indo-European in origin.