Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

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11-21-2020, 11:53 PM
J. Ketch

If others are reducing the regional averages based on too much similarity, England probably only needs 4 averages (Southeast/Southwest/Midlands/North), and Dutch 3 (North/Central/South). I'll let Lukasz decide.
11-22-2020, 11:49 AM
Dunai

I started to look into the K15 Updated source and I noticed some things that I think should be corrected and improved upon:

Sicily is an absolute mess, why in the first place do so many regions needed for a rather small island:
East_Sicilian,9.75,13.27,6.39,2.26,17.36,14.43,26. 95,6.76,0.52,0.03,0.00,0.06,0.25,1.60,0.36
Italy_Central_Sicily,8.94,14.64,4.78,1.31,17.60,14 .12,29.14,6.68,0.05,0.15,0.03,0.14,0.20,1.84,0.36
Italy_East_Sicily,8.07,12.81,4.41,1.82,18.07,15.44 ,30.59,6.26,0.22,0.18,0.13,0.07,0.23,1.20,0.48
Italy_West_Sicily,9.37,13.38,4.79,1.71,18.12,13.93 ,30.01,5.89,0.32,0.25,0.05,0.16,0.21,0.98,0.85
Sicily_Palermo,9.2,14.08,4.66,1.91,18.3,14.52,28.6 4,5.94,0.23,0.22,0.05,0.12,0.24,1.16,0.73
Sicily_Ragusa,11.12,12.93,4.73,2.63,17.95,13.97,27 .54,6.07,0.21,0.04,0.37,0.07,0.17,1.19,1.02
Sicily_Syracuse,11,15.57,4.67,2.10,18.30,13.89,27. 23,4.66,0.16,0.31,0.18,0,0.23,0.95,0.75
Sicily_Enna,7.39,16.93,4.77,1.83,18.16,12.71,29.27 ,6.38,0.3,0.15,0.02,0,0.39,1.10,0.59
Sicily_Caltanisetta,9.17,14.82,4.89,1.43,18.03,14. 07,28.22,6.64,0.12,0.12,0.15,0.08,0.37,1.51,0.38
Sicily_Trapani,11.70,14.05,4.75,1.88,18.94,13.03,2 7.77,5.58,0.30,0.25,0.09,0.03,0.11,1.09,0.39
Sicily_Messina,8.21,12.78,4.16,1.84,18.56,14.77,30 .57,6.29,0.14,0.15,0.11,0.05,0.30,1.39,0.28
Sicily_Catania,8.42,14.04,4.03,1.89,18.05,14.97,30 .16,5.57,0.26,0.26,0.03,0.15,0.23,1.42,0.49
Sicily_Agrigento,9.18,13.12,5.12,1.76,18.22,13.22, 30.11,5.65,0.81,0.04,0.15,0.24,0.21,1.32,0.85
West_Sicilian,9.76,18.32,4.70,3.27,17.76,10.64,26. 75,5.37,0.57,0.19,0.08,0.01,0.52,1.33,0.72

This should probably be better renamed to Walloon:
FRA_Belgica,30.06,25.90,9.94,7.14,13.16,4.86,5.19, 1.51,0.65,0.21,0.22,0.33,0.20,0.26,0.38

In these replace FRA with French:
FRA_Central,27.38,27.39,8.88,6.00,16.19,3.96,6.85, 1.54,0.33,0.16,0.21,0.29,0.25,0.37,0.19
FRA_Alsace,28.49,24.36,12.31,7.12,12.76,5.91,6.23, 1.50,0.20,0.31,0.14,0.20,0.14,0.13,0.19
FRA_Armorica,33.63,28.77,9.43,8.78,10.92,3.51,2.23 ,0.79,0.81,0.15,0.14,0.39,0.18,0.15,0.12
FRA_Septimania,23.44,30.07,6.86,5.00,20.86,2.32,7. 92,1.58,0.42,0.08,0.14,0.41,0.38,0.36,0.15
FRA_Provence,21.75,23.86,7.06,4.44,18.01,6.15,14.5 5,2.44,0.32,0.13,0.18,0.25,0.24,0.47,0.16
FRA_Aquitania,20.30,39.32,4.81,2.49,24.29,0.77,4.4 4,1.91,0.45,0.30,0.23,0.20,0.21,0.17,0.13

In these replace GR into Greek:
GR_Macedonia,10.845,12.2383333333,13.4233333333,6. 9733333333,15.06,14.4533333333,22.6516666667,3.188 3333333,0.1866666667,0.1683333333,0.2716666667,0,0 .3683333333,0.175,0
GR_Peloponese,10.215,14.68875,10.57125,5.87625,15. 37375,13.35875,23.97125,3.76375,1.17875,0.2175,0.1 6625,0.10875,0.35125,0.15625,0

Only one should remain, and renamed into Kosovar:
Kosovo_Albanian,12.9577777778,17.17,12.5977777778, 5.7488888889,16.2822222222,12.4444444444,19.543333 3333,2.4611111111,0.2788888889,0.1011111111,0.1266 666667,0.1477777778,0.1333333333,0,0
Albanian-Kosovo,14.93,15.66,11.94,6.23,18.27,10.32,19.43,2. 54,0.09,0.30,0.04,0.04,0.21,0.00,0.00

Here also only one should remain:
Macedonian,15.415,15.55,16.2835714286,10.425,13.62 5,9.8878571429,16.0614285714,2.0085714286,0.21,0.1 207142857,0.0114285714,0.1507142857,0.2257142857,0 .0028571429,0.0207142857
Macedonian_2,14.32,14.52,13.71,9.18,15.61,10.30,18 .71,2.88,0.09,0.17,0.05,0.18,0.26,0.02,0.00

Same here:
Norwegian,39.73,23.47,13.26,11.48,6.36,2.24,0.80,0 .14,0.81,0.08,0.50,0.72,0.32,0.06,0.04
Norway,39.19,23.96,13.30,11.79,6.40,2.39,0.24,0.07 ,0.47,0.05,1.08,0.58,0.25,0.17,0.06

Here I think only one should remain:
Southwest_French,18.23,33.82,8.51,5.22,23.54,1.68, 6.12,1.97,0.21,0.04,0.21,0.38,0.02,0.05,0.00
FRA_Aquitania,20.30,39.32,4.81,2.49,24.29,0.77,4.4 4,1.91,0.45,0.30,0.23,0.20,0.21,0.17,0.13

Same here:
Tuscan,14.30,20.09,6.44,2.92,19.82,10.04,20.77,4.7 5,0.26,0.01,0.08,0.01,0.22,0.21,0.08
Italy_Tuscany,17.25,20.05,6.52,2.79,20.41,9.07,19. 20,3.54,0.57,0.25,0.02,0.06,0.14,0.08,0.02
11-22-2020, 11:55 AM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunai

I will work on making new Hungarian averages for K15, since it's the other calculator good for Europeans. I also like that it has that map feature. I was thinking on K12b at first, but then I noticed how few European regions it provides, it just doesn't look as suited for generally European populations as Eurogenes does. Maybe some other time.

You could at least revise the Hungarian average for Dodecad. I don't even need 5 different HUN references. 15 Hungarian samples from various parts of the country would be enough.
11-22-2020, 12:07 PM
Leto

...
11-22-2020, 12:51 PM
Abriekman

K13 Updated Targeted

I use Ukrainian proxy for Polish and Russian

Distance: 261.7027% / 2.61702668
Target: Abriekman
54.9 Ukrainian_Belgorod
31.9 Ukrainian_Lviv
6.2 Bulgaria_Southcentral
2.8 Kurdish_Jewish
2.7 Algerian_Jewish
1.5 Mountain_Jew_Chechnya

The most accurate run for me, match my 23andme results perfectly, the same percentage of Eastern European as here
11-22-2020, 01:01 PM
Thracian

I believe that we need a revision for K13.

I think, maybe I am wrong, some samples are contaminated or just outliers such as Greek Istanbul or Greek Macedonia Thrace. They have almost 1/8 foreign ancestry, or I am wrong as I mentioned.

On the other hand, we literally have samples from cities for Balkan Turks. I think they should be grouped like K12b.
11-22-2020, 02:14 PM
Chris596

Here's PuntDNAL K15 for me, underrated calculator in my opinion:

Distance: 115.0292% / 1.15029196
Target: Chris | ADC: 0.25x RC
93.4 Serbian
3.0 Italian
2.6 Georgian
1.0 Japanese

Distance to: Chris (Top 5)
2.56803427 Serbian
4.82398176 Bosnian
5.69971929 Macedonian
7.58820137 Romanian
8.31798052 Bulgarian

http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/puntdnal-k15-vahaduo.htm
11-22-2020, 02:19 PM
Ion Basescul

Is Lucas no longer updating the averages?
11-22-2020, 05:57 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Is Lucas no longer updating the averages?

I am... I just wait for end of discussion and some general conclusion what to change:) I also agree there are especially too many Turkish, and specifically Balkan Turkish refs in K13. Should be groupped. Maybe by Kaspais.
11-23-2020, 09:27 AM
Ion Basescul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas

I am... I just wait for end of discussion and some general conclusion what to change:) I also agree there are especially too many Turkish, and specifically Balkan Turkish refs in K13. Should be groupped. Maybe by Kaspais.

Please update these then. I don't think that anyone has any objections about them.

Also, do you know what happened to the gradient in the "Distance" tab? Now everything is coloured blue, so it's not working as intended.
11-23-2020, 06:23 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Please update these then. I don't think that anyone has any objections about them.

Also, do you know what happened to the gradient in the "Distance" tab? Now everything is coloured blue, so it's not working as intended.

You can change default values for gradient from 0.2 to 25. But I've just changed.
11-23-2020, 07:43 PM
Leto

Luke, can you please finally delete Yemen Jews and Ethiopian Jews from Dodecad K12b? Those are inaccurate legacy references that frequently pop up when they're not needed. That's very annoying. Thank you.
11-24-2020, 10:20 AM
Abriekman

K13 Results , converted AncestryDNA kit do 23andme v3 format

deleted some Slavic populations and Pomak because of overfitting

Distance: 298.5900% / 2.98590047
Target: Abriekman | ADC: 0.5x RC
50.8 Ukrainian_Belgorod
26.6 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
14.5 Moldova_Centre
4.6 Adygei
3.5 Ukrainian_Lviv

Distance: 262.1985% / 2.62198535
Target: Abriekman | ADC: 0.25x RC
45.0 Ukrainian_Belgorod
18.0 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
15.3 Ukrainian_Lviv
11.9 Turk_Dobrich
6.3 Erzya
3.5 Turk_Meskhetian

Distance: 235.1753% / 2.35175266
Target: Abriekman
68.8 Ukrainian_Belgorod
17.0 Albanian_central_Albania
6.1 Erzya
5.0 Ukrainian_Lviv
1.4 Moroccan
0.7 Turk_Meskhetian
0.6 Dusadh
0.4 Papuan
11-24-2020, 10:45 AM
paradox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas

You can change default values for gradient from 0.2 to 25. But I've just changed.

Hi, could you also fix the decimal placement? It's giving large distances.
11-24-2020, 02:57 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by paradox

Hi, could you also fix the decimal placement? It's giving large distances.

Yes. Sorry I updated the core of Vahaduo and forgot about it.
11-27-2020, 09:51 AM
J. Ketch

OK Lucas, if you don't wish to add the smaller English/Dutch regions (fair enough as they're not really necessary), could you just add/update these, and remove Ulster British/SW English, and that will suffice for these countries.

K13

Code:

English_Midlands,49.62,23.45,13.76,5.66,4.13,0.58,0.96,0.20,0.22,0.47,0.43,0.25,0.21 English_Southwest,50.26,23.06,14.23,5.30,3.67,0.76,1.13,0.03,0.20,0.54,0.45,0.17,0.13 Irish,52.54,23.16,12.46,6.75,1.37,0.52,1.32,0.16,0.21,0.85,0.30,0.16,0.13 Irish_Connacht,52.65,23.42,12.04,7.09,1.07,0.21,1.59,0.10,0.28,0.90,0.21,0.22,0.10 Irish_Leinster,51.84,23.04,12.80,6.68,1.97,0.62,1.09,0.31,0.09,0.74,0.39,0.19,0.16 Irish_Munster,52.87,22.83,12.42,6.79,1.52,0.35,1.34,0.19,0.28,0.78,0.23,0.16,0.16 Irish_Ulster,53.13,22.47,12.65,6.9,0.87,0.61,1.49,0.10,0.36,0.84,0.32,0.05,0.14

K15

Code:

English_Midlands,36.27,27.78,10.09,8.73,9.54,3.87,1.44,0.48,0.57,0.06,0.06,0.26,0.24,0.21,0.15 English_Southwest,35.79,29.10,9.64,8.78,10.15,3.15,1.13,0.57,0.83,0.01,0.04,0.27,0.27,0.13,0.09 Irish,36.87,30.46,9.78,8.67,7.52,4.04,0.36,0.34,0.88,0.08,0.09,0.54,0.14,0.08,0.07 Irish_Connacht,37.58,30.41,9.11,9.30,7.27,3.87,0.07,0.09,1.09,0.04,0.11,0.67,0.13,0.11,0.07 Irish_Leinster,36.65,30.11,9.58,8.92,7.98,4.19,0.28,0.45,0.76,0.18,0.00,0.41,0.20,0.11,0.11 Irish_Munster,37.13,30.17,9.77,8.40,7.68,4.48,0.18,0.17,0.91,0.07,0.14,0.50,0.14,0.08,0.10 Irish_Ulster,36.62,30.93,9.31,8.62,7.70,4.34,0.04,0.30,1.12,0.06,0.13,0.56,0.14,0.03,0.04
11-27-2020, 11:07 AM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creoda

OK Lucas, if you don't wish to add the smaller English/Dutch regions (fair enough as they're not really necessary), could you just add/update these, and remove Ulster British/SW English, and that will suffice for these countries.

K13

Code:

English_Midlands,49.62,23.45,13.76,5.66,4.13,0.58,0.96,0.20,0.22,0.47,0.43,0.25,0.21 English_Southwest,50.26,23.06,14.23,5.30,3.67,0.76,1.13,0.03,0.20,0.54,0.45,0.17,0.13 Irish,52.54,23.16,12.46,6.75,1.37,0.52,1.32,0.16,0.21,0.85,0.30,0.16,0.13 Irish_Connacht,52.65,23.42,12.04,7.09,1.07,0.21,1.59,0.10,0.28,0.90,0.21,0.22,0.10 Irish_Leinster,51.84,23.04,12.80,6.68,1.97,0.62,1.09,0.31,0.09,0.74,0.39,0.19,0.16 Irish_Munster,52.87,22.83,12.42,6.79,1.52,0.35,1.34,0.19,0.28,0.78,0.23,0.16,0.16 Irish_Ulster,53.13,22.47,12.65,6.9,0.87,0.61,1.49,0.10,0.36,0.84,0.32,0.05,0.14

K15

Code:

English_Midlands,36.27,27.78,10.09,8.73,9.54,3.87,1.44,0.48,0.57,0.06,0.06,0.26,0.24,0.21,0.15 English_Southwest,35.79,29.10,9.64,8.78,10.15,3.15,1.13,0.57,0.83,0.01,0.04,0.27,0.27,0.13,0.09 Irish,36.87,30.46,9.78,8.67,7.52,4.04,0.36,0.34,0.88,0.08,0.09,0.54,0.14,0.08,0.07 Irish_Connacht,37.58,30.41,9.11,9.30,7.27,3.87,0.07,0.09,1.09,0.04,0.11,0.67,0.13,0.11,0.07 Irish_Leinster,36.65,30.11,9.58,8.92,7.98,4.19,0.28,0.45,0.76,0.18,0.00,0.41,0.20,0.11,0.11 Irish_Munster,37.13,30.17,9.77,8.40,7.68,4.48,0.18,0.17,0.91,0.07,0.14,0.50,0.14,0.08,0.10 Irish_Ulster,36.62,30.93,9.31,8.62,7.70,4.34,0.04,0.30,1.12,0.06,0.13,0.56,0.14,0.03,0.04

But you also posted averages for North, Central, South Dutch and I added I think it or no?
11-27-2020, 11:43 AM
J. Ketch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas

But you also posted averages for North, Central, South Dutch and I added I think it or no?

Yes you added those, but I also posted averages for smaller regions of the Netherlands/England some pages ago, but honestly they're not necessary, so I'm not bothered.
11-27-2020, 04:05 PM
J. Ketch

Update for Dodecad K12b

Code:

English_North,9.01,0.25,0.27,0.03,38.47,44.34,0.25,0.02,0.65,0.10,6.54,0.02 English_South,9.09,0.26,0.41,0.14,38.28,43.01,0.24,0.07,0.94,0.04,7.44,0.02 Irish,10.69,0.23,0.05,0.04,39.30,44.41,0.22,0.02,0.10,0.03,4.84,0.01 Scottish,10.25,0.19,0.21,0.16,38.53,44.21,0.23,0.01,0.40,0.03,5.73,0

English_North - 26
English_South - 35
Irish - 30
Scottish - 20

Distance to: English_North
1.11897274 English_mixed
1.70164626 English_South
1.79117280 Mixed_NW_Euro
2.49244860 Irish
2.57522815 Irish
3.29001520 Dutch
3.42112555 Dutch_Central
4.04555311 Dutch_North
4.48494147 Icelandic
5.51924814 Dutch_South
8.09982716 German
8.16905747 Swedish
9.58871211 French2
10.23483757 French
10.53464760 Bavarian_German
14.37151349 Slovenian
15.54159258 Slovak
16.15114237 Sorb_Lusatia
16.47149963 Hungarians
17.83157312 Croat

Distance to: English_South
0.67660919 English_mixed
1.84219977 English_North
2.36803716 Mixed_NW_Euro
3.29051668 Dutch
3.54928162 Irish
3.63469393 Dutch_Central
3.69617370 Irish
4.23837233 Dutch_South
5.03749938 Dutch_North
5.87048550 Icelandic
8.49688767 German
8.55565895 French2
9.11246948 Bavarian_German
9.20701906 French
9.40572166 Swedish
13.86794505 Slovenian
15.59183761 Slovak
16.20585080 Hungarians
16.63297628 Sorb_Lusatia
17.01635568 Italy_Aosta_Valley

Distance to: Irish
0.31638584 Irish
1.81785588 Mixed_NW_Euro
2.81732142 English_North
3.19740520 English_mixed
3.72675462 English_South
4.69557238 Dutch_North
4.71578201 Icelandic
5.42950274 Dutch
5.54221977 Dutch_Central
7.73586453 Dutch_South
8.87980856 Swedish
9.91194734 German
10.04644713 French2
10.71058355 French
12.66006714 Bavarian_German
16.67321505 Slovenian
17.46420911 Slovak
17.70507554 Sorb_Lusatia
18.66554580 Hungarians
19.38065530 PL_Warmia-Masuria

Distance to: Scottish
0.85211502 Mixed_NW_Euro
1.19503138 Irish
1.33214113 Irish
1.70076453 English_North
2.11279436 English_mixed
2.56304506 English_South
4.05900234 Dutch_North
4.22776537 Dutch
4.38336629 Dutch_Central
4.41389850 Icelandic
6.51482156 Dutch_South
8.48864536 Swedish
8.89934829 German
9.85646996 French2
10.53283912 French
11.47912018 Bavarian_German
15.41069758 Slovenian
16.37447098 Slovak
16.83302706 Sorb_Lusatia
17.46734382 Hungarians

Mixed NW Euro can be removed now IMO, and the duplicate old Irish averages.
11-27-2020, 04:09 PM
Leto

I don't like the two French references from Dodecad, they are definitely unrepresentative of most French people. Someone should replace them with something more accurate.

Also what was the sample size for Bavarian_German? 10 or less?
11-27-2020, 04:15 PM
Leto

@Lucas please remove Kyrgyz_Bishkek from Dodecad, it's crap and I don't know who added it. One Kyrgyz would suffice.
11-27-2020, 08:37 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

@Lucas please remove Kyrgyz_Bishkek from Dodecad, it's crap and I don't know who added it. One Kyrgyz would suffice.

OK:)
11-27-2020, 08:37 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

@Lucas please remove Kyrgyz_Bishkek from Dodecad, it's crap and I don't know who added it. One Kyrgyz would suffice.

OK:)
11-28-2020, 03:55 PM
Leto

Nepali averages for Dodecad K12b

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaazi

Kiranti_Rai = 3 kits
Gurung = 3 kits
Newar_Shrestha = 5kits
Khas_Kshatriya = 8kits
Khas_Brahmin = 34 kits (1 duplicate removed)

Code:

Nepali_Kirant_Rai,1.06,9.20,0.00,18.58,0.00,0.06,7.66,0.02,0.00,62.67,0.22,0.54 Nepali_Gurung,3.76,9.38,0.08,16.33,0.05,0.25,13.91,0.15,0.00,55.76,0.10,0.22 Nepali_Newar_Shrestha,17.21,5.85,0.25,9.54,0.79,3.12,29.01,0.27,0.00,32.71,1.21,0.05 Nepali_Khas_Kshatriya,26.86,3.64,0.06,5.07,1.07,8.55,33.68,0.09,0.58,16.62,3.79,0.01 Nepali_Khas_Brahmin,33.65,1.83,0.09,1.39,2.44,13.76,35.33,0.06,0.54,4.38,6.47,0.05
11-29-2020, 02:15 PM
vbnetkhio

most of the current Serb regional averages have way too little samples, less than 10. And they are all very similar to each other, so they can easily overflood one's oracles.
I merged regions that are identical or very similar into these 4 simplified averages:

Code:

Serb_north,25.11,30.70,16.57,9.04,14.65,1.53,0.53,0.32,0.57,0.43,0.43,0.06,0.04 Serb_central,25.13,29.35,17.05,8.71,15.72,1.62,0.57,0.26,0.66,0.50,0.28,0.10,0.05 Serb_south,23.36,27.16,17.57,9.33,18.39,1.96,0.44,0.18,0.84,0.35,0.28,0.00,0.15 Montenegrin,24.61,25.37,18.18,10.20,17.36,2.35,0.13,0.25,0.75,0.43,0.27,0.02,0.06 Serb,24.71,29.16,17.05,9.00,16.03,1.69,0.51,0.26,0.67,0.44,0.33,0.07,0.07

the approximate geographic distribution of these averages:
https://i.imgur.com/zwZK2xE.png

i think these should replace the current averages, if everybody agrees. but then the averages for other ethnicities should be simplified too.
11-29-2020, 02:27 PM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

most of the current Serb regional averages have way too little samples, less than 10. And they are all very similar to each other, so they can easily overflood one's oracles.
I merged regions that are identical or very similar into these 4 simplified averages:

Code:

Serb_north,25.11,30.70,16.57,9.04,14.65,1.53,0.53,0.32,0.57,0.43,0.43,0.06,0.04 Serb_central,25.13,29.35,17.05,8.71,15.72,1.62,0.57,0.26,0.66,0.50,0.28,0.10,0.05 Serb_south,23.36,27.16,17.57,9.33,18.39,1.96,0.44,0.18,0.84,0.35,0.28,0.00,0.15 Montenegrin,24.61,25.37,18.18,10.20,17.36,2.35,0.13,0.25,0.75,0.43,0.27,0.02,0.06 Serb,24.71,29.16,17.05,9.00,16.03,1.69,0.51,0.26,0.67,0.44,0.33,0.07,0.07

the approximate geographic distribution of these averages:
https://i.imgur.com/zwZK2xE.png

i think these should replace the current averages, if everybody agrees. but then the averages for other ethnicities should be simplified too.

Excellent idea, I want to do same for Croatian averages but am unable to do so myself.

My idea is as following:

Southern (Dalmatia, Lika, all of BiH)
North and Central (Zagorje, central)
Eastern (Slavonia)
Western (Istria and Primorje, Gorski kotar)

+ one general average

If you wish, you can do them. I posted few results recently in south Slav (Commonsense did too) thread that need to be added as well (from page 46 to the end)
11-29-2020, 02:30 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

most of the current Serb regional averages have way too little samples, less than 10. And they are all very similar to each other, so they can easily overflood one's oracles.
I merged regions that are identical or very similar into these 4 simplified averages:

Code:

Serb_north,25.11,30.70,16.57,9.04,14.65,1.53,0.53,0.32,0.57,0.43,0.43,0.06,0.04 Serb_central,25.13,29.35,17.05,8.71,15.72,1.62,0.57,0.26,0.66,0.50,0.28,0.10,0.05 Serb_south,23.36,27.16,17.57,9.33,18.39,1.96,0.44,0.18,0.84,0.35,0.28,0.00,0.15 Montenegrin,24.61,25.37,18.18,10.20,17.36,2.35,0.13,0.25,0.75,0.43,0.27,0.02,0.06 Serb,24.71,29.16,17.05,9.00,16.03,1.69,0.51,0.26,0.67,0.44,0.33,0.07,0.07

the approximate geographic distribution of these averages:
https://i.imgur.com/zwZK2xE.png

i think these should replace the current averages, if everybody agrees. but then the averages for other ethnicities should be simplified too.

If they exist Romanian/Vlach samples form NE Serbia?
11-29-2020, 02:37 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

most of the current Serb regional averages have way too little samples, less than 10. And they are all very similar to each other, so they can easily overflood one's oracles.
I merged regions that are identical or very similar into these 4 simplified averages:

Code:

Serb_north,25.11,30.70,16.57,9.04,14.65,1.53,0.53,0.32,0.57,0.43,0.43,0.06,0.04 Serb_central,25.13,29.35,17.05,8.71,15.72,1.62,0.57,0.26,0.66,0.50,0.28,0.10,0.05 Serb_south,23.36,27.16,17.57,9.33,18.39,1.96,0.44,0.18,0.84,0.35,0.28,0.00,0.15 Montenegrin,24.61,25.37,18.18,10.20,17.36,2.35,0.13,0.25,0.75,0.43,0.27,0.02,0.06 Serb,24.71,29.16,17.05,9.00,16.03,1.69,0.51,0.26,0.67,0.44,0.33,0.07,0.07

the approximate geographic distribution of these averages:
https://i.imgur.com/zwZK2xE.png

i think these should replace the current averages, if everybody agrees. but then the averages for other ethnicities should be simplified too.

Add it instead of what is now or leave old regional too?
11-29-2020, 02:42 PM
Leto

Lukasz, please finish the latest Creoda update :)
11-29-2020, 02:44 PM
Dušan

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

most of the current Serb regional averages have way too little samples, less than 10. And they are all very similar to each other, so they can easily overflood one's oracles.
I merged regions that are identical or very similar into these 4 simplified averages:

Code:

Serb_north,25.11,30.70,16.57,9.04,14.65,1.53,0.53,0.32,0.57,0.43,0.43,0.06,0.04 Serb_central,25.13,29.35,17.05,8.71,15.72,1.62,0.57,0.26,0.66,0.50,0.28,0.10,0.05 Serb_south,23.36,27.16,17.57,9.33,18.39,1.96,0.44,0.18,0.84,0.35,0.28,0.00,0.15 Montenegrin,24.61,25.37,18.18,10.20,17.36,2.35,0.13,0.25,0.75,0.43,0.27,0.02,0.06 Serb,24.71,29.16,17.05,9.00,16.03,1.69,0.51,0.26,0.67,0.44,0.33,0.07,0.07

the approximate geographic distribution of these averages:
https://i.imgur.com/zwZK2xE.png

i think these should replace the current averages, if everybody agrees. but then the averages for other ethnicities should be simplified too.

Ok, but why is general Serb average changed?

This one seems correct

Code:

Serb,24.72,29.47,17.13,9.20,15.42,1.55,0.55,0.27,0.72,0.53,0.30,0.08,0.05
11-29-2020, 03:11 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Excellent idea, I want to do same for Croatian averages but am unable to do so myself.

My idea is as following:

Southern (Dalmatia, Lika, all of BiH)
North and Central (Zagorje, central)
Eastern (Slavonia)
Western (Istria and Primorje, Gorski kotar)

+ one general average

If you wish, you can do them. I posted few results recently in south Slav (Commonsense did too) thread that need to be added as well.

i would put Dalmatia, Herzegovina and West Bosnia into "southern", and Lika, proper Bosnia, Istria and Slavonia into "central".

https://i.imgur.com/iBgYLR3.png

the Slavonian average is weird, you can see it's a little bit outlying from the rest. i don't think it's the true Slavonian Croat average. 3 out of 7 samples aren't purely from Slavonia, and among the other 4 one is super northern shifted and one is super southern.

but you decide.
11-29-2020, 03:18 PM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

i would put Dalmatia, Herzegovina and West Bosnia into "southern", and Lika, proper Bosnia, Istria and Slavonia into "central".

https://i.imgur.com/iBgYLR3.png

the Slavonian average is weird, you can see it's a little bit outlying from the rest. i don't think it's the true Slavonian Croat average. 3 out of 7 samples aren't purely from Slavonia, and among the other 4 one is super northern shifted and one is super southern.

but you decide.

Makes sense. So if you do them big thanks. Person who has 70 Slavonian samples unfortunately never sent them to Hrvoje, so if you divide them like that it's cool.
I'm just worried labels would confuse people.

I mean, nobody would guess Slavonia and Istria are in centre. Still, go ahead, based on PCA your division makes most sense.
11-29-2020, 03:18 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

Ok, but why is general Serb average changed?

This one seems correct

Code:

Serb,24.72,29.47,17.13,9.20,15.42,1.55,0.55,0.27,0.72,0.53,0.30,0.08,0.05

I made some small changes. I merged East Serbia into the Central average, and not with Southern as before, because i noticed based on the current samples they don't seem very south shifted or Romanian admixed at all.
I also included mixed samples now (e.g. north Bosnia+Vojvodina mixed people in the northern average)

do you think the old one had better med/west asian proportions?
11-29-2020, 03:22 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas

If they exist Romanian/Vlach samples form NE Serbia?

these ones:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post6364354
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...om-East-Serbia

they are not 100% confirmed though.
11-29-2020, 03:24 PM
Ion Basescul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Please update the following for K13. Don't delete the rest, only duplicates.

Code:

Moldova_North,23.76,34.32,14.70,9.76,12.20,1.53,0.33,0.50,1.73,0.48,0.32,0.04,0.32 Moldova_average,23.08,30.46,15.56,10.11,14.74,1.91,0.82,0.58,1.43,0.52,0.37,0.10,0.22 Romania_Moldavia_North,24.59,30.31,15.10,9.37,14.81,1.70,0.82,0.61,1.30,1,0,0,0 Romania_Moldavia_South,24.07,26.78,16.97,9.83,16.69,2.04,0.67,0.54,1.08,0.67,0.39,0.10,0.16 Romania_Wallachia,22.35,24.81,17.64,11.14,18.53,2.09,0.75,0.65,0.96,0.52,0.35,0.11,0.09 Romania_Muntenia,21.91,24.66,17.54,11.35,18.87,2.19,0.72,0.55,1.03,0.59,0.35,0.13,0.10 Romania_Oltenia,23.52,25.05,17.97,10.73,17.82,1.79,0.70,0.79,0.69,0.38,0.36,0.10,0.09 Romania_Dobruja,22.11,24.93,17.64,11.00,18.49,2.23,0.71,0.87,1.25,0.37,0.28,0.07,0.06 Romania_Transylvania,24.31,25.97,17.43,10.13,16.98,1.84,0.65,0.54,1.04,0.59,0.35,0.07,0.10 Romania_Maramures,24.38,28.43,16.90,9.19,15.65,2.06,1.06,0.73,0.75,0.29,0.49,0.05,0.00 Romania_Crisana,25.58,26.36,17.69,9.50,16.32,1.25,0.82,0.62,0.85,0.59,0.25,0.12,0.06 Romania_Banat,22.75,25.65,17.78,10.71,17.71,2.06,0.84,0.55,1.21,0.40,0.21,0.07,0.09

The average for Moldova is weighted according to population compared to the old one (Moldova_average,23.50,29.88,15.61,9.93,15.16,1.86 ,0.85,0.62,1.32,0.53,0.41,0.14,0.20)

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
Weight in country Region

27.00% North

52.90% Centre

20.00% South

</google-sheets-html-origin>

Reminder to update the above
11-29-2020, 03:29 PM
Dušan

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

I made some small changes. I merged East Serbia into the Central average, and not with Southern as before, because i noticed based on the current samples they don't seem very south shifted or Romanian admixed at all.
I also included mixed samples now (e.g. north Bosnia+Vojvodina mixed people in the northern average)

do you think the old one had better med/west asian proportions?

Yes, I think that this general average is better

Code:

Serb,24.72,29.47,17.13,9.20,15.42,1.55,0.55,0.27,0.72,0.53,0.30,0.08,0.05

than this new one

Code:

Serb,24.71,29.16,17.05,9.00,16.03,1.69,0.51,0.26,0.67,0.44,0.33,0.07,0.07

In second, east Med and Red Sea components are a bit exaggerated.
11-29-2020, 03:50 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Makes sense. So if you do them big thanks. Person who has 70 Slavonian samples unfortunately never sent them to Hrvoje, so if you divide them like that it's cool.

and yet she uses vahaduo :rolleyes:
doesn't she realize the how much she would improve the tool if she donated her results?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

I'm just worried labels would confuse people.

I mean, nobody would guess Slavonia and Istria are in centre. Still, go ahead, based on PCA your division makes most sense.

on a second look, maybe Bosnia proper isn't plotting correctly because of a small sample (12). and Dalmatia looks closer to Istria and Lika than to Herzegovina and Tropolje.

so we could use Littoral (Dalmatia+Lika+Istria), North(or Central? - Northwest+Central+Kotar), East(Slavonia), and Bosnian(Bosnian+Herzegovinian)
11-29-2020, 04:09 PM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

and yet she uses vahaduo :rolleyes:
doesn't she realize the how much she would improve the tool if she donated her results?

on a second look, maybe Bosnia proper isn't plotting correctly because of a small sample (12). and Dalmatia looks closer to Istria and Lika than to Herzegovina and Tropolje.

so we could use Littoral (Dalmatia+Lika+Istria), North(or Central? - Northwest+Central+Kotar), East(Slavonia), and Bosnian(Bosnian+Herzegovinian)

Maybe she wanted to send them, but saw that copying values of 70 samples and running them on K13 was too much work? Who knows, maybe she still sends them.

Here are last individual samples that should be added if you haven't already (from s.slavic thread)

Code:

Croat_Dalmatia,29.89,31.61,18.81,8.21,9.33,0,0,1.11,1.03,0,0,0,0 Croat_Dalmatia,24.71,28.52,17.72,11.72,15.37,0.09,0,0.5 5,0.77,0.24,0.21,0,0.07 Croat_Zagorje,32.02,36.28,12.94,2.90,12.11,1.28,0,0,2.0 4,0,0.38,0,0 Croat_Herzegovina,25.68,31.98,18.06,7.46,12.86,1.4,0.91,0.07,1.51,0.06,0,0,0 Croat_Kvarner,33.52,33.8,11.86,6.4,11.11,0.96,0,0,0.11,1.35,0.19,0,0.69

What about this divison?

Panonnia (Zagorje+Central+Slavonia+Gorski kotar) - yeah Gorski kotar isn't technically Panonnia but population is very Central European in origin, and culturally too
Dinaric Alps (Lika+Bosnia proper+west Bosnia+Herzegovina) - Lika is mostly Bunjevac origin, same culture like BiH and topography, should be with them IMO
Adriatic (Istria+Kvarner+Dalmatia)
+ one general average for all

This division would be nice I think.
11-29-2020, 04:39 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Maybe she wanted to send them, but saw that copying values of 70 samples and running them on K13 was too much work? Who knows, maybe she still sends them.

well the kit numbers would be enough. yes, let's hope she shares them one day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Here are last individual samples that should be added if you haven't already (from s.slavic thread)

Code:

Croat_Dalmatia,29.89,31.61,18.81,8.21,9.33,0,0,1.11,1.03,0,0,0,0 Croat_Dalmatia,24.71,28.52,17.72,11.72,15.37,0.09,0,0.5 5,0.77,0.24,0.21,0,0.07 Croat_Zagorje,32.02,36.28,12.94,2.90,12.11,1.28,0,0,2.0 4,0,0.38,0,0 Croat_Herzegovina,25.68,31.98,18.06,7.46,12.86,1.4,0.91,0.07,1.51,0.06,0,0,0 Croat_Kvarner,33.52,33.8,11.86,6.4,11.11,0.96,0,0,0.11,1.35,0.19,0,0.69

What about this divison?

Panonnia (Zagorje+Central+Slavonia+Gorski kotar) - yeah Gorski kotar isn't technically Panonnia but population is very Central European in origin, and culturally too
Dinaric Alps (Lika+Bosnia proper+west Bosnia+Herzegovina) - Lika is mostly Bunjevac origin, same culture like BiH and topography, should be with them IMO
Adriatic (Istria+Kvarner+Dalmatia)
+ one general average for all

This division would be nice I think.

i already made these, is it ok?

Code:

Croat_Bosnia&Herzegovina,25.53,32.41,15.86,8.50,13.91,1.38,0.59,0.25,0.56,0.46,0.35,0.04,0.11 Croat_East,27.42,34.37,13.89,8.65,11.79,1.56,0.03,0.14,1.16,0.62,0.35,0.02,0.01 Croat_Littoral,26.81,32.09,15.78,8.11,13.54,1.40,0.33,0.24,0.56,0.49,0.39,0.13,0.11 Croat_North,31.25,33.42,14.32,7.25,9.92,1.21,0.63,0.31,0.55,0.56,0.33,0.12,0.13 Croat,28.36,33.20,14.93,7.76,11.78,1.44,0.51,0.26,0.57,0.52,0.44,0.10,0.14

the new samples are included.
11-29-2020, 04:46 PM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

well the kit numbers would be enough. yes, let's hope she shares them one day.

i already made these, is it ok?

Code:

Croat_Bosnia&Herzegovina,25.53,32.41,15.86,8.50,13.91,1.38,0.59,0.25,0.56,0.46,0.35,0.04,0.11 Croat_East,27.42,34.37,13.89,8.65,11.79,1.56,0.03,0.14,1.16,0.62,0.35,0.02,0.01 Croat_Littoral,26.81,32.09,15.78,8.11,13.54,1.40,0.33,0.24,0.56,0.49,0.39,0.13,0.11 Croat_North,31.25,33.42,14.32,7.25,9.92,1.21,0.63,0.31,0.55,0.56,0.33,0.12,0.13 Croat,28.36,33.20,14.93,7.76,11.78,1.44,0.51,0.26,0.57,0.52,0.44,0.10,0.14

the new samples are included.

Thank you! Lucas can add them.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Weight in country	Region
27.00%	North
52.90%	Centre
20.00%	South