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Lol, you're the one with the unconventional theories here, why should I do all the work?Quote:
Originally Posted by Protospatha
I've seen one or two of your threads, R1a Indians doesn't have much to do with whether IE came to Europe with R1a or G IMO.
I think this whole J and G thing with you is because you've found out or suspect yourself to be J and don't want your ancestors to be some Neolithic farmers which were conquered by R1a Indo-Europeans. :rolleyes:
R1b=Western Europe>Bell Beakers R1a=Eastern Europe>Corded Ware.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albion
R1a1a are the Proto Indo-Europeans and some subclades of R1b got gradually Indo-Europeanized in Central Europe.So only a portion of R1b subclades are Indo-European and they backmigratted this time with a IE language.This can explain the predominantly R1b and almost none R1a among Italics-Celtics and mixed ratio of R1b and R1a among Germanics.
I'm not unconventional, I'm only seekibg the truth, not seeking an umprobable theory like I am blind, idiot and passively. I make myself questions, I don't listen to and quickly believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albion
What Protospatha said is the first time I hear. Are there offical papers based on what you are saying?
hahaha funny one. Neolithic farmers were fairly more advanced than those uncivilized horse riders milk sucker R1a. Neolithic farmers are the real Aryans. I will happy to be J2, I hope it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albion
Right, so what about the western subclades - what is their origin then? You don't support the Iberian theory do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus
Personally I think R1b originated in Anatolia and the Armenian Highlands bringing a sort of proto-IE to Anatolia (the Anatolian languages). When R1b and R1a came into contact again IE was created as we know it (the R1a people speaking a related language to the R1b).
Armenian being a weird version of IE could stem from this IMO.
How could a West Asian haplogroup speak a similar language to one from Central Asia? West Europeans got Indo-Europeanized by the Neolithic farmers that at the time were present in a bit more frequence than now, even in the Isles. Armenian could be a hybrid language IE J2/G + non-IE R1b.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albion
Your rhetoric means I'm probably right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Protospatha
R1a and R1b succeeded in Europe where Neolithic farmers were failing. The Neolithic farming methods and technology were poorly suited to Europe beyond the Med and Balkans, in the British Isles, Scandinavia and the North European plain they were in rapid decline.
Natural climate change had made what was once a favourable climate largely hostile to them. Grapes were grown during the Neolithic in Sweden - it is only now that they're reappearing after thousands of years.
In Germany the LBK had turned to ritual cannibalism after crop failures. Basically the R1a and R1b people arrived and quickly saved the European population beyond the Med and Balkans. Better pastoral farming methods were well suited to Northern and Central Europe, without them I suspect much of Europe would have reverted to hunter-gatherers.
The R1a and R1b peoples were skilled herdsmen and metal workers whilst the Noelithic peoples were fairly good arable farmers and made nice stone temples.
In the end it was R1a and R1b people with superior weapons, greater mobility (horses) and farming practices better suited to Europe which won out.
Southern Europe and the Balkans don't have such diversity in haplogroups because of the Arabs, they have that from the Neolithic farmers. R1a and R1b peoples didn't have an advantage in these areas as they did in the north.
But in the end it was the Neolithic peoples that ended up speaking IE and following IE cultures and religions. Neolithic farmers weren't Aryans, they were just some earlier Afro-Asiatic and South Caucasian speakers who introduced early farming methods.
Their civilisations were more advanced than that of R1a and R1b people until those two groups settled down as the various cultures of Europe - Slavs, Germanics, Celts, Italics (before the entered Italy), Illyrians, etc...
Because the two had been one group that broke up, thus taking their original shared language(s) with them. Eventually these diverged, but not enough so as to be completely incompatible. When the two groups came into contact again their two languages or groups of languages formed IE.Quote:
How could a West Asian haplogroup speak a similar language to one from Central Asia?
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5108/64772075.jpg
The Isles were almost entirely Neolithic and Mesolithic haplogroups in Britain before R1b entered. (Mesolithic because Britain was only repopulated 10,000 years ago after the Last Glacial Maximum).Quote:
West Europeans got Indo-Europeanized by the Neolithic farmers that at the time were present in a bit more frequence than now, even in the Isles.
The Neolithics spoke Afro-Asiatic or South Caucasian.
I think it is likely that Europe was covered by the following language families during the Neolithic. There would have been some amount of overlap which is indicated by the blurred divisions. The second map has lines to provide a better idea of the areas covered.
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/841...iesofneoli.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/841...iesofneoli.jpg
These in turn would have partially displaced the earlier hunter-gatherer populations of Europe which likely belonged to the I haplogroup. If haplogroup I was indeed descended from IJ then it is likely that Europe's hunter gatherers spoke what is now termed 'Afro-Asiatic' in my opinion.
This was latter pushed back as Neolithic farmers replaced and assimilated the earlier cultures, with Afro-Asiatic being latter reinforced in some areas with farmers, metalworkers and traders travelling along the coasts (Megalithic culture). Basically it is Venneman's Vasconic theory whilst Finnic in NE Europe makes sense and fits the 'Finnic northern Europe theory' and South Caucasian is my own theory and ultimately I think Basque may be a distant relative of it.
South Caucasian should really be South or North Caucasian, either or maybe even both groups could have been present.
I think this is going to be a fun topic. ;)