Genetic portrait of Piast Dynasty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peterski

Lucas Lapinski in the Genetic Genealogy Facebook group:

“Are the Piasts a family from the R1b group?
Not necessarily.

I calmly analyzed the scraps of knowledge we got from the source data over the weekend, and the Monday conference.

What we know for sure:
1. 33 burials were analyzed that were classified as "Piasts"
2. the data of a dozen or so Y-DNA samples were given, from which we have haplogroups R1a and R1b
3. the lineages of three of the five sons of Boleslaw the Wrymouth have been examined
4. we have no data from generations earlier than Boleslaw the Wrymouth
5. we don't seem to have even a sample of the Wrymouth himself (the dating of the sample completely disagrees).

Undeniably, the offspring of the duke's youngest son - born after his father's death - Casimir “the Just”, belonged to the male group designated R1b. We do not know if Casimir himself, but certainly already his son Konrad the Just, whose sample was marked as No. 05 - YES.
Only Konrad's great-great-grandson Casimir I Trojdenovic turned out to be a “R1a side-shot", all the others - samples 5, 11, 13, 15, 16 and 17 are R1b.

While quantitatively R1b prevails, counting the filial lines themselves, a serious doubt is introduced:

1. the son of Krzywousty Casimir senior (+1131), who died young, marked as sample 02, is Haplogroup R1A
2. the son of another of Krzywousty's sons, Boleslaw the Curly - Prince Leszek - sample 03 - is also Haplogroup R1A

If we do not have a confirmed and researched descendants of the Greater Poland line of Mieszko “the Old” or the eldest son - the Silesian line of Wladyslaw the Exile, which will confirm the R1B (or R1A) line, then as of today we only know that not the Piasts belonged to the R1b line, but specifically the Piasts of the Mazovian-Cuyavian line from the line of the posthumous child, about which we can not be sure whether he was the son of the Wrymouth (he was not even included in the will)

* TWO LINES of Boleslaw the Wrymouth's descendants belong to haplogroup R1A.
* TWO LINES are still unexplored.
* ONE LINE of the Wrymouth's descendants are carriers of the Y chromosome of haplgroup R1B.

This much we know as of today.

Having experience in Y-DNA research for more than a dozen years, I am very cautious about such revelations.
I don't know if I'm reasoning correctly. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Below is my summary, and from a slide from the conference

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)"

https://i.imgur.com/3X4UNL6.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/UB6qvx0.jpeg

Lapinski wrote:



He is talking about this slide from the conference:

https://i.imgur.com/OCUP2wD.jpg

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Looks like a legit interpretation. It doesn't really sugest R1b but rather R1a. What's your opinion?

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 7.4870% / 0.07486970
60.6 Piast?
39.4 Polish


Adding Basque_Spanish & Castilla:

Code:

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Basque_Spanish,0.126425,0.148739,0.055679,0.00879,0.05545,0.000249,-0.001754,0.000025,0.029539,0.042923,-0.005214,0.010801,-0.024986,-0.019493,0.015807,0.002614,-0.00563,0.003172,-0.002375,-0.001791,0.008819,0.002204,-0.006479,-0.008654,0.00115
Castilla,0.112197,0.146236,0.040406,-0.002769,0.042821,-0.001952,-0.001712,0.002967,0.026267,0.031917,-0.002204,0.008328,-0.01391,-0.012229,0.011129,-0.003409,-0.006351,-0.000851,-0.002011,-0.001376,0.003244,0.000459,-0.000035,-0.003322,-0.001796

---

Code:

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Piast?,0.11701,0.107646,0.059736,0.043605,0.033052,0.021642,0.004089,0.010569,0.002822,-0.019754,-0.005391,-0.008003,0.006036,0.016542,-0.007085,-0.000053,-0.004277,0.001976,0.004123,0.006178,0.000774,0.004748,0.007962,-0.003567,0.007065
Polish,0.123972,0.120848,0.062885,0.054533,0.033904,0.024798,0.005111,0.009019,-0.000256,-0.015809,0.000758,-0.004584,0.005476,0.015104,-0.001923,0.000696,-0.00439,0.002238,0.002326,0.000406,-0.004939,0.000103,0.00341,0.002149,-0.001128

---

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.6735% / 0.01673528
66.2 Castilla
28.8 Basque_Spanish
5.0 Polish


Edit:The variation with previously posted results is due of the final use of averages instead of "Piast" individuals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rothaer

Looks like a legit interpretation. It doesn't really sugest R1b but rather R1a. What's your opinion?

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I think the main Piast haplogroup will turn out to be R1b-U152, as Golubinski predicted. Today (Friday) Golubinski will meet with Figlerowicz team and they will analyze it together (as he told me via Messenger).

R1b-S747 was an incorrect assignment as it turns out, the Piasts have nothing to do with the Picts:

https://www.national-geographic.pl/h...ledne-wnioski/

"So what conclusion can be drawn? According to the archaeologist, in light of the currently available, incomplete data, it is incorrect to establish the haplogroup of the Piasts as R1b-S747 and connect it with the Picts from Scotland. - Instead, it can be said that at least one of their lines (Kuyavian-Masovian) belonged to haplogroup R1b. It was present in Polish lands even before the arrival of the Slavs. This would rather indicate the local origin of the Piasts. That is, quite different from what Prof. Marek Figlerowicz and his team suggest,” Dr. Blaszczyk points out."

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)