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I based it on the PCA from the Danube Limes study:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf
https://i.imgur.com/bPowrdH.jpg
Czech bastards.
Slovenia IA is already available in G25:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Code:Slovenia_EIA:I5689,0.132035,0.142174,0.050911,0.018411,0.046162,0.007809,0.00329,0.005077,0.00634,0.006925,0.001786,0.001649,-0.00892,-0.002752,0.002172,0.004641,-0.002868,0.00038,-0.000754,0.003126,0.00025,0.002102,-0.000616,-0.008796,-0.000958
Slovenia_EIA:I5690,0.127482,0.135065,0.058454,0.026809,0.044624,0.006414,0.007285,0.013846,0.001432,0.006378,0.002436,0.006744,-0.01219,-0.009221,0.007057,0.004906,-0.003651,0.003167,0.001634,-0.000375,-0.002995,0.006059,0.000123,0.007832,-0.003712
Slovenia_EIA:I5691,0.129758,0.146236,0.043369,0.006783,0.044008,-0.000837,-0.002585,-0.000231,0.012885,0.028429,0.002761,0.008243,-0.016501,-0.011423,0.002443,-0.001989,0.004433,0.00228,-0.002137,0.002001,0.000374,0.006925,-0.000616,0.001687,0.000239
Slovenia_EIA:I5692,0.125205,0.15436,0.033187,0,0.035083,-0.008646,-0.00188,0.001385,0.014521,0.030798,-0.004547,0.005245,-0.018583,-0.008808,-0.005972,-0.00305,0.002086,0.000887,0.00352,-0.007003,-0.001996,0.000989,-0.001602,-0.004699,-0.00479
Slovenia_EIA:I5693,0.129758,0.151314,0.049403,-0.000969,0.047393,-0.001673,0.002115,-0.001615,0.009408,0.033714,-0.00341,0.002997,-0.020069,0.001789,-0.000136,-0.00305,-0.014342,0.005321,0.004777,-0.00075,0.00549,0.01694,-0.002218,-0.002169,0.003473
Slovenia_EIA:I5696,0.12862,0.147252,0.039975,-0.008721,0.049855,-0.018686,-0.001175,-0.003,0.024134,0.041914,0.001786,0.014387,-0.026164,-0.011147,-0.0038,0.009944,0.007953,0.000253,0.007919,-0.008879,-0.000374,0.003339,-0.011339,-0.008073,0.003712
Slovenia_EIA:I5697,0.126344,0.139128,0.047517,0.025194,0.041546,0.004741,0.00094,0.002538,0.001432,0.010205,-0.003897,0.007194,-0.014866,-0.012799,0.006786,0.012066,0.014342,-0.003547,0.002765,-0.005002,0.003868,0.002226,0.00419,-0.003253,-0.008023
Slovenia_EIA:I5698,0.12862,0.147252,0.052797,0.005814,0.051086,-0.006136,-0.000705,0.004846,0.020248,0.027153,0.00341,0.002847,-0.004162,-0.016102,-0.004343,0.011668,0.021774,-0.00076,0.011187,0.003502,0.000499,0.007048,-0.001109,-0.010363,-0.002275
I took Imperial Roman average that vbnetkhio provided, Iron Age Bulgaria and Croatia, and several ancient Slavic samples.
Code:Imperial_Roman,12.79,3.50,21.15,18.80,34.25,6.65,0 .68,0.41,0.09,0.23,0.48,0.77,0.20
I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48 ,30.00,9.21,28.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0. 00,0.00
I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15 ,12.62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00, 0.00,0.00,0.00
Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_,25. 54,45.76,13.11,4.08,6.15,0.53,0.00,0.00,2.60,1.08, 0.58,0.53,0.00
Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_,3 0.33,47.37,11.04,4.58,2.63,0.68,0.49,0.00,1.56,0.8 9,0.00,0.42,0.00
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26, 8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0
Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.5 3,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63, 3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0
Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14. 97,2.7,4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.3 7,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9. 89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0
Slavic:KRA011_S-Anhalt_1100_AD,29.56,50.68,8.38,2.39,2.54,1.03,1.3 ,0.14,0,1.4,1.27,1.1,0.21
Slavic:KRA001_S-Anhalt_1100_AD,25.47,47.56,12.36,7.54,1.32,0,2.43, 0.52,0.01,1.2,0.71,0.61,0.27
Slavic:VK494_Poland_Sandomierz,32.56,47.37,12.86,2 .56,0,0,0.82,2.53,0.31,0.22,0,0.77,0
This is Serbian average
Code:Serb,24.72,29.47,17.13,9.20,15.42,1.55,0.55,0.27,0.72,0.53,0.30,0.08,0.05
Target: Serb
Distance: 0.8704% / 0.87035441
60.7 Slavic
26.8 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
11.5 Imperial_Roman
1.0 I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
Me
Target: Dušan
Distance: 2.5924% / 2.59241188
69.4 Slavic
15.5 Imperial_Roman
15.1 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
I do not get any trace of Croatia Iron Age, and Serb average got only 1%.
You too didnt get Croatia Iron Age
Target: vbn
Distance: 2.9217% / 2.92167846
65.6 Slavic
21.5 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
12.9 Imperial_Roman
Distance to: Slovenia_EIA:I5698Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
0.03620033 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03712043 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.03751409 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03781650 Spanish_Girona
0.03816913 Spanish_Castello
0.03825951 Spanish_Soria
0.03887258 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03901771 Swiss_French
0.03910108 French_Auvergne
0.03928640 Spanish_Penedes
0.03990152 Spanish_Lleida
0.04014872 Spanish_Baleares
0.04082932 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04093109 Spanish_Pirineu
0.04120532 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04244801 Spanish_Cataluna
0.04281684 Spanish_Barcelones
0.04302469 French_Occitanie
0.04375045 French_Provence
0.04401022 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04403877 Spanish_Valencia
0.04411215 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04467171 Spanish_Cantabria
0.04475480 French_South
0.04536694 Spanish_Menorca
Distance to: Slovenia_EIA:I5697
0.02833961 Swiss_French
0.02840135 Swiss_German
0.02998099 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03006671 French_Alsace
0.03013543 French_Nord
0.03080317 French_Paris
0.03088586 Belgian
0.03264885 French_Auvergne
0.03323105 French_Occitanie
0.03455815 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03487486 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03519744 French_Provence
0.03630435 Austrian
0.03778455 German
0.03943445 French_Brittany
0.04013198 Afrikaner
0.04054248 Spanish_Penedes
0.04066832 Italian_Northeast
0.04132484 Spanish_Girona
0.04251770 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04327343 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04351814 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04352584 Welsh
0.04376197 Montenegrin
0.04397301 Spanish_Soria
Distance to: Slovenia_EIA:I5696
0.03234288 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.03538392 Spanish_Castello
0.03740585 Spanish_Cantabria
0.03766556 Spanish_Pirineu
0.03821191 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03851309 Spanish_Lleida
0.03857278 Spanish_Baleares
0.03883943 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03890931 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03924372 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.03986602 Spanish_Valencia
0.04011423 Spanish_Alacant
0.04022496 Spanish_Girona
0.04025876 Spanish_Menorca
0.04050127 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04051845 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04081729 Spanish_Navarra
0.04087657 Spanish_Aragon
0.04116086 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04128794 Spanish_Cataluna
0.04144940 Spanish_Penedes
0.04156245 French_Corsica
0.04182449 Italian_Bergamo
0.04207991 Spanish_Murcia
0.04220601 French_South
Distance to: Slovenia_EIA:I5693
0.03188540 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03230291 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03357251 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03376342 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03463421 French_Auvergne
0.03469857 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03492877 Spanish_Lleida
0.03555980 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03563694 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03583428 Spanish_Menorca
0.03602994 French_Occitanie
0.03680081 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.03704783 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03713198 Spanish_Valencia
0.03737874 Spanish_Pirineu
0.03741414 Spanish_Aragon
0.03744834 Spanish_Penedes
0.03799166 Italian_Bergamo
0.03811738 Spanish_Baleares
0.03829694 Spanish_Girona
0.03836378 Spanish_Cantabria
0.03837645 Italian_Lombardy
0.03840294 French_South
0.03844732 Spanish_Castello
0.03878653 Italian_Veneto
Distance to: Slovenia_EIA:I5692
0.01884852 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02032235 Italian_Bergamo
0.02074098 Italian_Veneto
0.02269970 Spanish_Baleares
0.02307947 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02442493 Spanish_Menorca
0.02458126 Italian_Lombardy
0.02594380 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.02658628 Spanish_Eivissa
0.02681418 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.02693113 Spanish_Girona
0.02768907 Spanish_Penedes
0.02861246 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.02862688 Italian_Piedmont
0.02868125 Spanish_Lleida
0.02886524 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.02917939 French_Provence
0.02920826 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.02953563 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.02959726 French_Corsica
0.02961253 Italian_Northeast
0.02981728 Spanish_Pirineu
0.03015110 Spanish_Alacant
0.03073624 Spanish_Castello
0.03086872 Spanish_Barcelones
Distance to: Slovenia_EIA:I5691
0.01772366 Spanish_Penedes
0.01780894 French_Auvergne
0.01865424 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.01870648 Swiss_French
0.01902269 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.01937575 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.01970217 Spanish_Girona
0.02025144 Spanish_Lleida
0.02033068 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02108185 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.02141721 French_Provence
0.02209646 French_Occitanie
0.02331665 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.02348462 Spanish_Pirineu
0.02348778 Spanish_Baleares
0.02407408 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02413374 Spanish_Castello
0.02490645 Spanish_Barcelones
0.02595530 Spanish_Cantabria
0.02638997 Spanish_Aragon
0.02648827 Spanish_Valencia
0.02672735 Spanish_Cataluna
0.02676597 Spanish_Eivissa
0.02762874 Spanish_Menorca
0.02770778 Italian_Veneto
Distance to: Slovenia_EIA:I5690
0.02135795 French_Alsace
0.02185423 French_Nord
0.02224166 Belgian
0.02292636 Swiss_German
0.02456111 German
0.02599531 French_Paris
0.02797027 Austrian
0.02822305 Afrikaner
0.02828635 French_Brittany
0.02846568 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.02970049 Welsh
0.03044665 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03120623 Dutch
0.03130009 English_Cornwall
0.03164843 English
0.03284064 French_Occitanie
0.03443270 French_Auvergne
0.03453790 Scottish
0.03641945 Orcadian
0.03680063 Hungarian
0.03713867 Swiss_French
0.03773100 Danish
0.03795500 Shetlandic
0.03933315 Irish
0.04043052 French_Provence
Distance to: Slovenia_EIA:I5689
0.02229676 French_Alsace
0.02471939 Swiss_German
0.02499476 French_Nord
0.02778487 French_Auvergne
0.02795823 French_Occitanie
0.02827933 Austrian
0.02920741 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.02972861 Belgian
0.02993030 French_Seine-Maritime
0.02996418 Swiss_French
0.03194496 French_Paris
0.03223456 German
0.03452591 Italian_Northeast
0.03466911 French_Provence
0.03671695 Croatian
0.03673354 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03687480 Montenegrin
0.03771890 Hungarian
0.03837524 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03839178 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03850238 Slovenian
0.03854034 Serbian
0.03862743 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03863748 Spanish_Penedes
0.03875259 French_Brittany
Some of these Slovenian samples look "Illyrian" while those clustering with north French look Celtic IMHO. Some come from Croatian border area as far as I know.
Would be interesting to properly identify material culture each sample is identified with, so we could more easily distinguish Illyrians from Celts (and maybe some are a mix of them?)
Thracian sample already plot with more southern shifted central Italians, and Imperial Romans plot like borderline MENAs. Such a score like from your model would make Serb pre-Slavic part supper woggy deep south Italian like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Not realistic at all especially considering prečani originate from Illyrian regions.
Neither should one get fit below 1 for ancient model, that's not realistic at all.
Yeah this looks much more realistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf
Doesn't this show locals in Roman age Serbia (who were between Croatian and Bulgarian IA) did not mix with MENA like Romans?Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Yes, our pre-Slavic part is "supper woggy deep south Italian like".Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
It is realistic, and it is seen in this chart.
https://i.imgur.com/n0BcQdp.png
Origin of "prečani" is most likely from central Balkan, and we are not different from other Serbs, as it is proven for hundred times.
0% IA Croatia, thank dear God. :thumb001:
Even native Balkanites in Serbia proper were between Croatian and Bulgarian IA, and not entirely Thracian like and they were actual Moesians which is a subset of Thracians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Your models show Serbs are not native in western Balkans at all, and than you should stop claiming that.
Truth is though that most western Serbs are native to east Herzegovina and surrounding regions however. It's just that your modeling is very illogical and unrealistic.
And where is the source that east Herzegovina was similar IA_Croatia?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Again your bullshit.
vbnetkhio is agree with me, actualy this modeling is made from his own data.
You are ignorant and stupid.
Serbian samples come east of Herzegovina, and they were Thracians, idiot. In Herzegovina lived Illyrians. Thus Serbian IA should be closer to Bulgarian IA than B&H IA should be. It falls in-between (Cro and BG IA) even, while I expected it to be like Bulgarian IA completely. Here is results from Illyrian tribe of southern Italy (Apulia)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Distance to: Daunian_IA:ORD009_517BC_Quality=70.05%
0.03375273 French_Corsica
0.03402973 Italian_Veneto
0.03500182 Italian_Piedmont
0.03527467 Italian_Tuscany
0.03556619 Swiss_Italian
0.03639077 Italian_Bergamo
0.03884339 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04026252 Italian_Umbria
0.04182701 Spanish_Baleares
0.04239967 Italian_Northeast
0.04291958 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04303520 Italian_Lombardy
0.04311957 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04322355 Spanish_Menorca
0.04353634 Italian_Marche
0.04476102 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04508314 Albanian
0.04542251 Greek_Thessaly
0.04542500 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04567742 French_Provence
0.04579698 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04627010 Italian_Lazio
0.04644970 Spanish_Girona
0.04647612 Italian_Liguria
0.04702300 Spanish_Murcia
Target: Daunian_IA:ORD009_517BC_Quality=70.05%
Distance: 2.6038% / 0.02603835 | R2P
55.0 Greek_Laconia
45.0 Spanish_Soria
Says the ratard who removes Bosniak averages because he plots closest to them lul xDQuote:
vbnetkhio is agree with me, actualy this modeling is made from his own data.
You are ignorant and stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Illyrian were not homogenous group of people.
And here are the regional results:
https://i.imgur.com/uRGphfb.png
With wierd exception of western Serbia and Montenegro, no IA Croatia.
This is from CroRats
https://i.imgur.com/eVQr5Q5.png
Even Dalmatian CroRats gets more Bulgarian than Croatian IA, and you talking something about East Herzegovina.
So far no genetic evidence for that. Those from Croatia, Slovenia, Hungary and south Italy plot relatively similar. Even one from south Italy is nothing like modern south Italians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
You are dumb. I also get modeled with IA Bulgaria and not IA Croatia. I doesn't mean it is correct. Unlike you, I don't declare some model correct just because it fits my personal results.Quote:
Even Dalmatian CroRats gets more Bulgarian than Croatian IA, and you talking something about East Herzegovina.
You are dumb, and a liar as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Target: Stearsolina(Croat)
Distance: 2.8821% / 2.88209825
67.4 Slavic
24.1 I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
5.1 Imperial_Roman
3.4 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
And north Croats have German like admixture that bleeds to Croatian IA in this Slav-Balkan model because western Euro reference is lacking.
I still repeat, what Reich paper states is realistic, with native Balkanites being between Croatian and Bulgarian IA which would probably make them central Italian like.
But Sicilian like or whatever? Only if MENA genocide of Balkanites and ethnic replacement happened. If you think you are heavily MENA, be my guest xD
Those Near Eastern samples in red are also from Viminacium. These samples are from a period when the 2 groups lived side by side and didn't mix with each other yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
I mean in my G25 calc. Your model has no west Euro proxy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Target: Stearsolina_scaled
Distance: 1.6472% / 0.01647246
53.4 (Balto-)Slavic:DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA_KRA001
15.4 Balkan:BGR_IA_I5769
14.0 Graeco-Roman:ITA_Rome_Imperial_RMPR111
8.8 Celtic_like:DEU_Lech_EBA_AITI_78
6.2 (Balto-)Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2
1.4 Turkic:TUR_Ottoman_MA2195
0.8 Graeco-Roman:ITA_Rome_Imperial_RMPR76
And I think my calculator has serious flaws.
Which period is that? Just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
As you can see, this model seems very realistic to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
I'm not sure, the radiocarbon datings should be available in the supplementary data of the study.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
The mena samples were burried in richer graves than the locals, so maybe they didn't mix because of a class difference. This could've been a phenomenon specific for Viminacium only.
Which indicates that these two samples - that according to the PCA posted farther up are almost at the opposite ends of the spektrum - are applicable references for modelling old Balkan, even if hardly anyone gets modelled with CRO IA in G25. For whatever reason. And why this seems different in K13, remains a conundrum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Here it is mine Sicilian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Prego, signora
https://i.imgur.com/qwaXmDR.png
So you believe your native Balkan ancestors were genocided and replaced by "Romans" (actually near MENAs)? I don't like that idea!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
It is not about what I like or not like, but finding a truth about ancestral autosomal genetics of Balkan population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Yes. From what I saw on Gedmatch, Serbs with the highest NA are probably from NE Bosnia. Krajina and Vojvodina Serbs have less because their ethnogenesis happened further south.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
We will see. I accept anything which is truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
True 100%. Since I am outside genetics, I have no numbers, but my eyes and brain for 20 years of life in the Crimea and 2 years in the Odessa region confirm this. Here is a different substrate compared to the Moscow region, not to mention the more northern regions. But there are also many "northern" settlers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Whatever one may say, multi-million people do not disappear without a trace:).
Those groups weren't "multi-million" though. It's not like a group of Slavs would have magically assimilated hordes of non-Slavs.Quote:
Originally Posted by KirillMazur
Southern Russians and Ukrainians still do not score a lot of West Asian (not more than Poles or Slovaks for example) which means the supposed Iranic thing cannot have been massive.
If you ever get to order a DNA test, my advice is not to go for Genotek which is the only officially allowed DNA testing company in Russia. Their raw data is shit (V5 chip). Choose FTDNA instead, it's not banned yet.
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
For example I1-FGC22045 and N-FGC28435 are strong in Krajina Serbs and both are founded in skeletons from Cernica near Gacko (East Herzegovina) from the late middle age https://hercegbosna.org/forum/post1638232.html#p1638232
Krajina Serbs have tons of matches in East/Old Herzegovina among other haplos as well, and they are linguistically connected with East Herzegovina. There is no linguistic connection between Krajina Serbs and old shtokavian ijekavian ("Montenegrin"), old shtokavian ekavian of central Serbia, Torlakian etc.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varda
The fact is that "Illyrians" were not homogenous people, those in northwestern part are different, while those of southeast Illyricum is closer to "Thracians".
In other words, autosomal genetics of pre-Slavic component of Serbs and Croats are different.
That is fact proven by autosomal genetics.
Baseless claim without any proof. Croatian IA sample is from southern area. And IA Apulian is nothing like Thracian as well. Apulia is much more southern than majority of west Balkans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Not really. Depends on the region.Quote:
In other words, autosomal genetics of pre-Slavic component of Serbs and Croats are different.
That is fact proven by autosomal genetics.
What about Apulia?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Are you talking about influence of Roman colonisation?
Yes, and there is different situation, it was stronger in areas settled with Serbs, than areas with Croats, in area of nortern Croats, no occured at all.
Only southern Croats are a bit closer, the rest are not at all.Quote:
Not really. Depends on the region.
Varda would say they are catholicized Serbs.
Well by genetics it could be.
Apulia sample is from Illyrian tribe that came to Apulia from Dalmatia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Northern Croatia had Celts, does not mean there were no Romans there (there were even in Hungary). There is also later Hungarian-German influence.
Slavonian Croats pre-Slavic is very southern, they just have high Baltic. Outside of Kajkavian area most Illyrian-shifted pre-Slavic seems to be on the Islands.Quote:
Only southern Croats are a bit closer, the rest are not at all.
Keep dreaming. Here is my 100% north Čakavian friend and he plots like Slavonian and Bosnian Croats (bad raw tho)Quote:
Varda would say they are catholicized Serbs.
Well by genetics it could be.
1.89230633 24.40% Ashkenazi + 75.60% South_Polish
1.91501174 65.60% Southwest_Russian + 34.40% Tuscan
2.05197081 41.00% Central_Greek + 59.00% Estonian
2.06836817 40.80% Belorussian + 59.20% Romanian
2.11068372 63.40% Belorussian + 36.60% Italian_Abruzzo
2.14019503 62.20% Estonian + 37.80% South_Italian
2.19374833 64.80% Serbian + 35.20% Southwest_Russian
2.20844427 60.40% Bulgarian + 39.60% Estonian
2.20928916 20.60% Italian_Jewish + 79.40% South_Polish
2.24241227 52.00% Estonian + 48.00% Greek_Thessaly
2.29117001 60.00% Bulgarian + 40.00% Finnish
2.36317668 31.00% Belorussian + 69.00% Serbian
2.37149409 80.60% South_Polish + 19.40% Tunisian_Jewish
2.38392837 40.20% East_Sicilian + 59.80% Estonian
2.39902963 20.60% Algerian_Jewish + 79.40% South_Polish
2.41382230 64.00% Estonian_Polish + 36.00% Italian_Abruzzo
2.41477149 20.60% Sephardic_Jewish + 79.40% South_Polish
2.41830483 64.60% Belorussian + 35.40% West_Sicilian
2.45086013 31.40% Estonian_Polish + 68.60% Serbian
2.56697423 41.20% Estonian_Polish + 58.80% Romanian
2.56813092 35.40% Estonian + 64.60% Romanian
2.63051570 19.20% Libyan_Jewish + 80.80% South_Polish
2.66311259 67.40% Belorussian + 32.60% South_Italian
2.69938095 25.60% Lithuanian + 74.40% Serbian
2.74221854 45.00% Belorussian + 55.00% Bulgarian
My other Čakavian Croat friend plots like north-western Croats.
It's not back and white.
Neither all Serbs score tha same, ofc. This Dalmatian Serb pre-Slavic part is more northern than Dušan's.
Distance to: Nausevar(Serb)
2.76075908 11.00% Sardinian + 89.00% Serbian
3.11056430 60.40% Moldavian + 39.60% North_Italian
3.36782865 58.80% Croatian + 41.20% Tuscan
3.43118799 52.40% Tuscan + 47.60% Ukrainian_Lviv
3.56702628 63.80% Moldavian + 36.20% Tuscan
3.64875643 54.20% Tuscan + 45.80% Ukrainian
4.09252394 79.60% Moldavian + 20.40% Sardinian
4.13079957 39.80% Russian_Smolensk + 60.20% Tuscan
4.21926988 64.60% Croatian + 35.40% West_Sicilian
4.22393558 55.60% Croatian + 44.40% North_Italian
4.29585245 35.00% Lithuanian + 65.00% Tuscan
4.34773798 42.20% Polish + 57.80% Tuscan
4.36481097 39.40% Estonian_Polish + 60.60% Tuscan
4.39390138 33.40% Erzya + 66.60% North_Italian
4.49906036 59.20% Tuscan + 40.80% Ukrainian_Belgorod
4.57083715 41.20% Southwest_Russian + 58.80% Tuscan
4.59185750 62.40% North_Italian + 37.60% Ukrainian_Belgorod
4.62386591 17.80% North_Italian + 82.20% Serbian
4.66633945 53.40% Ukrainian_Lviv + 46.60% West_Sicilian
4.73525856 88.00% Serbian + 12.00% Southwest_French
4.75427856 87.80% Serbian + 12.20% Spanish_Andalucia
4.76225177 62.20% North_Italian + 37.80% Southwest_Russian
4.76863779 37.80% Kargopol_Russian + 62.20% Tuscan
4.77508605 51.60% Ukrainian + 48.40% West_Sicilian
4.78417356 46.40% South_Polish + 53.60% Tuscan
There is a possibility that actually the Balkans before the arrival of the Slavs were more west-shifted than modern-day southern Italians, this could also be why Albanians have virtually the same EEF amount as southern Italians despite also having received Slavic input. And there is also the possibility that proto-Slavs had already mixed before reaching the Balkans, and would therefore look more something like Poles with 42 or 43% Baltic rather than Belarusians.
Spoiler!
Medieval Greeks and their modern descendants.