Where did haplogroup E1b1b in Europeans come from?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nassbean

He clusters with both modern and late neolithic moroccans

as you can see he's very close to me :

Distance to: Nassbean_scaled
0.07035651 Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246

Very similar :

https://i.imgur.com/lHubB1v.png



if this haplogroup was mainly brought by EEF we would have at least found the same amount of it all over southern europe but that's not the case there is a big contrast between iberia and other parts of Europe and no copper or bronze samples had this haplogroup + EEF themselves rarely had this Haplogroup. So as I said most of it came directly from north africa during ancient and medieval times ( Punic, roman and moorish presence).

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But EEF had this haplogroup. You can find them in the aDNA samples around the balkans.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nassbean

you're dishonest this individual was unique among the other samples from the same era simply because he was north african not a local iberian. So again try to find a copper or bronze age sample with e1b1b good luck

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Indeed he could came from North Africa, but wasn't exactly like modern north africans, this guy was overwhemly Farmer and Iberomaurusian, i don't know how Moors from the islamic period were genetically. The thing is that this guy had a Farmer paternal line, IMHO, this because the E-M78 is indeed common in Farmer cultures around Europe.

Don't know why calling me dishonest, where i'm lying?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arch Hades

The same as what happened to the Spanish empire. Spain had the 4th biggest empire in world history now they just have Spain. How did Spanish military might dissapear?

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Spanish empire was broke due criollos freemasons, i.e. It was broke by ourselves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rocinante

But EEF had this haplogroup. You can find them in the aDNA samples around the balkans.



Indeed he could came from North Africa, but wasn't exactly like modern north africans, this guy was overwhemly Farmer and Iberomaurusian, i don't know how Moors from the islamic period were genetically. The thing is that this guy had a Farmer paternal line, IMHO, this because the E-M78 is indeed common in Farmer cultures around Europe.

Don't know why calling me dishonest, where i'm lying?

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No as I showed you he was similar to me and had the same amount of EEF than me you confuse him with KEB which is something else. And I said dishonest because we're talking about iberians and you brought a north african migrant as an example of e1b1b.

I think it's possible, on every major calculator I score between 0.5-1% SSA (like Bantu or something), on another I get 1.09 South-African. My question is, how did I, as a Hungarian get SSA admixture?

Everyone who is E-V13 gets this much SSA or more? (serious question) Even in my description, you can see that on Vahaduo Eurogenes K13 I get 0.6 San (San people), while I have more East-Asian and Siberian that's why I get Tatar, Korean, Han Chinese, etc.

Other members told me that 0.3/0.4/0.5 SSA is probably just noise but I'm not sure anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris596

I think it's possible, on every major calculator I score between 0.5-1% SSA (like Bantu or something), on another I get 1.09 South-African. My question is, how did I, as a Hungarian get SSA admixture?

Everyone who is E-V13 gets this much SSA or more? (serious question) Even in my description, you can see that on Vahaduo Eurogenes K13 I get 0.6 San (San people), while I have more East-Asian and Siberian that's why I get Tatar, Korean, Han Chinese, etc.

Other members told me that 0.3/0.4/0.5 SSA is probably just noise but I'm not sure anymore.

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I don't score any African component in any calculator.
Anything less than 1% is usually noise. Either that or it could be some ancient ancestry for you but that's highly unlikely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nassbean

No as I showed you he was similar to me and had the same amount of EEF than me you confuse him with KEB which is something else. And I said dishonest because we're talking about iberians and you brought a north african migrant as an example of e1b1b.

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No wait. The other user told me about LN moroccans, and i modeled the only LN moroccan than is availeable in G25. You have same amount of EEF compared to who? Also, you are more near to that beaker sample, but still you are far enough. The thing is that man is not a pure north african, see how much Farmer scores and the clade he is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

I don't score any African component in any calculator.
Anything less than 1% is usually noise. Either that or it could be some ancient ancestry for you but that's highly unlikely.

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You're probably right, thanks. What's really interesting that there is a calculator in Admixture Studio (LM Genetics Global K5). Most Europeans don't get any SSA, or between 0.01% or 0.10%, but even there I score 0.36% Negroid. And in another calculator I get Equatorial Africa as a result while nobody else got that, again. (I don't remember the name of that calc)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris596

You're probably right, thanks. What's really interesting that there is a calculator in Admixture Studio (LM Genetics Global K5). Most Europeans don't get any SSA, or between 0.01% or 0.10%, but even there I score 0.36% Negroid. And in another calculator I get Equatorial Africa as a result while nobody else got that, again. (I don't remember the name of that calc)

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Ancestor of E-V13 entered Europe a very long time ago and with a small sub Saharan admixture himself to begin with. So I doubt anything from that side could remain in you for like 8,000-10,000 years lol.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daos777

Ancestor of E-V13 entered Europe a very long time ago and with a small sub Saharan admixture himself to begin with. So I doubt anything from that side could remain in you for like 8,000-10,000 years lol.


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How do you know he had SSA admixture?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

How do you know he had SSA admixture?

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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...po_E-ADN-Y.GIF

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rocinante

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...po_E-ADN-Y.GIF

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That doesn't prove anything. Europe autosomally was much different 10,000 years ago to today. Same goes for every other region on this planet.

Plus the mutation of E-V13 didn't occur in Africa.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

How do you know he had SSA admixture?

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If we are to believe that ancestor of all E-M78 clades came from Iberomaurusians then:


“A two-way admixture scenario using Natufian and modern sub-Saharan samples (including West Africans and the Tanzanian Hadza) as reference populations inferred that the seven Taforalt individuals are best modeled genetically as of 63.5% Natufian-related and 36.5% sub-Saharan ancestry (with the latter having both West African-like and Hadza-like affinities)”

But it most likely wouldn’t have come directly from Iberomaurusians into Europe(possible though) it most likely came from Capsian culture in the Mesolithic and if they are directly descendants of iberomaurusians they would of still had some of that 36.5 sub-Saharan.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rocinante

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...po_E-ADN-Y.GIF

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Dude don’t be jealous that E men got all the big jungle booty to themselves and you guys stayed in Eurasia with the pancake booty.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

That doesn't prove anything. Europe autosomally was much different 10,000 years ago to today. Same goes for every other region on this planet.

Plus the mutation of E-V13 didn't occur in Africa.

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I'm trolling my friend. I just though i was still funny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daos777

If we are to believe that ancestor of all E-M78 clades came from Iberomaurusians then:


“A two-way admixture scenario using Natufian and modern sub-Saharan samples (including West Africans and the Tanzanian Hadza) as reference populations inferred that the seven Taforalt individuals are best modeled genetically as of 63.5% Natufian-related and 36.5% sub-Saharan ancestry (with the latter having both West African-like and Hadza-like affinities)”

But it most likely wouldn’t have come directly from Iberomaurusians into Europe(possible though) it most likely came from Capsian culture in the Mesolithic and if they are directly descendants of iberomaurusians they would of still had some of that 36.5 sub-Saharan.


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But do you think E-V13 actually had SSA admixture? By the time the V13 mutation happened 2 previous mutations had already occurred. It's a bit of stretch imo but it's not entirely impossible.

I don't know, do we know the genetic makeup of early E-V13 samples? Surely that would give us an indication.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daos777

Dude don’t be jealous that E men got all the big jungle booty to themselves and you guys stayed in Eurasia with the pancake booty.


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I have to admit, best asses are the daughters of the E1b. This is true my friend.

But hey... Some of us didn't actually stay in Eurasia.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...C3%81frica.PNG

Best butties are in Central Africa and we got them :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rocinante

No wait. The other user told me about LN moroccans, and i modeled the only LN moroccan than is availeable in G25. You have same amount of EEF compared to who? Also, you are more near to that beaker sample, but still you are far enough. The thing is that man is not a pure north african, see how much Farmer scores and the clade he is.

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You misunderstood him he was talking about the male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras and said that he clusters with late neolithic moroccans. But as I showed you this male from camino was very similar to me that's why the authors of the study concluded that he was probably a north african migrant and not a local individual.

So again you have no evidence that Most e1b1b clades in iberia came with EEF that's a ridiculous statement

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daos777

If we are to believe that ancestor of all E-M78 clades came from Iberomaurusians then:


“A two-way admixture scenario using Natufian and modern sub-Saharan samples (including West Africans and the Tanzanian Hadza) as reference populations inferred that the seven Taforalt individuals are best modeled genetically as of 63.5% Natufian-related and 36.5% sub-Saharan ancestry (with the latter having both West African-like and Hadza-like affinities)”

But it most likely wouldn’t have come directly from Iberomaurusians into Europe(possible though) it most likely came from Capsian culture in the Mesolithic and if they are directly descendants of iberomaurusians they would of still had some of that 36.5 sub-Saharan.


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that's outdated :

Quote:

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Moreover, our model predicts that West Africans (represented by Yoruba) had 12.5±1.1% ancestry from a Taforalt-related group rather than Taforalt having ancestry from an unknown Sub-Saharan African source11; this may have mediated the limited Neanderthal admixture present in West Africans23. An advantage of our model is that it allows for a local North African component in the ancestry of Taforalt, rather than deriving them exclusively from Levantine and Sub-Saharan sources.

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https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423079v1.full

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

But do you think E-V13 actually had SSA admixture? By the time the V13 mutation happened 2 previous mutations had already occurred. It's a bit of stretch imo but it's not entirely impossible.

I don't know, do we know the genetic makeup of early E-V13 samples? Surely that would give us an indication.

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Thats what I’m waiting for. That sample that seals the deal. That would mean finding the population that brought E-V13 to Europe. As much as people want to think this is a closed case and the most likely scenario of an Anatolian entrance this is just larp with no physical evidence lol. Until this sample comes up we are stuck at the beginning which is North Africa and Iberomaurusians. As for the SSA a VERY small amount of it would have remained(if any at all) by the time E-V13 mutation took place.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nassbean

that's outdated :



https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423079v1.full

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Yeah I know that it is iberomaurusians who brought that into Sub Saharan Africans not the reverse, but without isolating this side those alleles would still show up as SSA on genetic tests and calculators.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daos777

Thats what I’m waiting for. That sample that seals the deal. That would mean finding the population that brought E-V13 to Europe. As much as people want to think this is a closed case and the most likely scenario of an Anatolian entrance this is just larp with no physical evidence lol. Until this sample comes up we are stuck at the beginning which is North Africa and Iberomaurusians. As for the SSA a VERY small amount of it would have remained(if any at all) by the time E-V13 mutation took place.


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This is what I'm also interested in. Clear evidence would be the best. And yep, I checked many calculators and on all of them I score a bit of SSA, so it must be something more recent, not thousands of years old.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daos777

Thats what I’m waiting for. That sample that seals the deal. That would mean finding the population that brought E-V13 to Europe. As much as people want to think this is a closed case and the most likely scenario of an Anatolian entrance this is just larp with no physical evidence lol. Until this sample comes up we are stuck at the beginning which is North Africa and Iberomaurusians. As for the SSA a VERY small amount of it would have remained(if any at all) by the time E-V13 mutation took place. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations

Spoiler!

Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek

And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:

Spoiler!

Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon

EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66

Distance:

Spoiler!

Distance to: CL38_longobard_north_italy
6.37168737 Greek_Symi_Island
6.97559316 Calabria
7.44006720 Greek_Chios
7.61345519 Sicily
8.07280001 Campania
8.28610282 Malta
8.41152929 Greek_Dodecanese
9.59929164 Sephardic_Jewish
9.92915404 Apulia
9.92963746 Basilicata
10.24068845 East_Sicilian
10.49715676 Molise
10.66773172 Central_Greek
10.83117261 Greek_Andros_Island
11.05079635 Abruzzo
12.11841161 Italian_Jewish
12.83231857 West_Sicilian
13.08016819 Algerian_Jewish
13.13192674 Moroccan_Jew
13.22680233 Turk_Cypriot
13.58766352 Tunisian_Jewish
13.76693503 Ashkenazi
14.01965763 Greek_Cappadocian
14.43050242 Libyan_Jewish
14.73810368 Turk_Burgas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris596

This is what I'm also interested in. Clear evidence would be the best. And yep, I checked many calculators and on all of them I score a bit of SSA, so it must be something more recent, not thousands of years old.

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0.6% of SSA is having 0% of SSA. Just noise. Also I'm kidding about the E1b1, don't think that having that haplo means negroid, most if you are V13.

Try G25.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations

Spoiler!

Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek

And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:

Spoiler!

Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon

EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66

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be careful with those calculators Taforalt had ANA but no SSA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nassbean

be careful with those calculators Taforalt had ANA but no SSA

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Yeah it’s probably not a good idea to use these ancients on modern components but yeah it gives us an idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations

Spoiler!

Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek

And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:

Spoiler!

Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon

EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66

Distance:

Spoiler!

Distance to: CL38_longobard_north_italy
6.37168737 Greek_Symi_Island
6.97559316 Calabria
7.44006720 Greek_Chios
7.61345519 Sicily
8.07280001 Campania
8.28610282 Malta
8.41152929 Greek_Dodecanese
9.59929164 Sephardic_Jewish
9.92915404 Apulia
9.92963746 Basilicata
10.24068845 East_Sicilian
10.49715676 Molise
10.66773172 Central_Greek
10.83117261 Greek_Andros_Island
11.05079635 Abruzzo
12.11841161 Italian_Jewish
12.83231857 West_Sicilian
13.08016819 Algerian_Jewish
13.13192674 Moroccan_Jew
13.22680233 Turk_Cypriot
13.58766352 Tunisian_Jewish
13.76693503 Ashkenazi
14.01965763 Greek_Cappadocian
14.43050242 Libyan_Jewish
14.73810368 Turk_Burgas

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Yeah, that sample is mostly Neolithic farmer(Barcin) which is no surprise given the age and location it was found. That area in that time has been mixing with Neolithics for quite a while and whatever was there before would only show up weakly in the dominant Neolithic+ WHG genes. There is significant Morocco late neolithic admixture in one of the Cardial samples though. As in some of the Cucuteni-Tryppilian samples, where E-V13 was also found. I made this table:

https://imgur.com/3etnFsH

Don't think it means much but other neolithic farmers in Europe don't score such a high score.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations

Spoiler!

Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek

And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:

Spoiler!

Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon

EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66

Distance:

Spoiler!

Distance to: CL38_longobard_north_italy
6.37168737 Greek_Symi_Island
6.97559316 Calabria
7.44006720 Greek_Chios
7.61345519 Sicily
8.07280001 Campania
8.28610282 Malta
8.41152929 Greek_Dodecanese
9.59929164 Sephardic_Jewish
9.92915404 Apulia
9.92963746 Basilicata
10.24068845 East_Sicilian
10.49715676 Molise
10.66773172 Central_Greek
10.83117261 Greek_Andros_Island
11.05079635 Abruzzo
12.11841161 Italian_Jewish
12.83231857 West_Sicilian
13.08016819 Algerian_Jewish
13.13192674 Moroccan_Jew
13.22680233 Turk_Cypriot
13.58766352 Tunisian_Jewish
13.76693503 Ashkenazi
14.01965763 Greek_Cappadocian
14.43050242 Libyan_Jewish
14.73810368 Turk_Burgas

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Are yous not aware that E-V13 has been found in Iron Age Moldova?

Distance to:	scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp
6.87866266	Albanian_north_Albania
7.29365478	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
7.64342855	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
7.69003251	Albanian_Kosovo
7.71172484	Albanian_Albania
7.80235862	Albanian
7.81294439	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
8.14415128	Albanian_central_Albania
8.32019831	Tuscany
8.68545336	Albanian_Macedonia
8.75502142	Romagna
8.80964490	Kosovo_Albanian
9.07295983	Albanian_south_Albania
9.07667340	Greek_Western-Thrace
9.21926244	Vlach_North-Macedonia
9.23403487	FrenchCorsica
9.39195933	Albanian_Montenegro
9.45345440	Emilia
9.46202410	Tuscan
9.54204381	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
9.55164384	Greek_Thessaly
9.60281729	Greek_Central-Macedonia
9.68273722	Lazio
9.99962999	Umbria
10.20947599	Marche

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Are yous not aware that E-V13 has been found in Iron Age Moldova?

Distance to:	scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp
6.87866266	Albanian_north_Albania
7.29365478	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
7.64342855	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
7.69003251	Albanian_Kosovo
7.71172484	Albanian_Albania
7.80235862	Albanian
7.81294439	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
8.14415128	Albanian_central_Albania
8.32019831	Tuscany
8.68545336	Albanian_Macedonia
8.75502142	Romagna
8.80964490	Kosovo_Albanian
9.07295983	Albanian_south_Albania
9.07667340	Greek_Western-Thrace
9.21926244	Vlach_North-Macedonia
9.23403487	FrenchCorsica
9.39195933	Albanian_Montenegro
9.45345440	Emilia
9.46202410	Tuscan
9.54204381	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
9.55164384	Greek_Thessaly
9.60281729	Greek_Central-Macedonia
9.68273722	Lazio
9.99962999	Umbria
10.20947599	Marche

---

Yeah that E-V13 sample is just one of the many that Indo-Europeans assimilated from Cucuteni-Trypillian. I


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daos777

Yeah, that sample is mostly Neolithic farmer(Barcin) which is no surprise given the age and location it was found. That area in that time has been mixing with Neolithics for quite a while and whatever was there before would only show up weakly in the dominant Neolithic+ WHG genes. There is significant Morocco late neolithic admixture in one of the Cardial samples though. As in some of the Cucuteni-Tryppilian samples, where E-V13 was also found. I made this table:

https://imgur.com/3etnFsH

Don't think it means much but other neolithic farmers in Europe don't score such a high score.

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All E-V13 to date according to haplogroup.info
We don't have the Global 25 data for 3 E-V13 Hungarian Conquerors, a viking from Denmark, a medieval from Germany and a medieval from Sardinia.

https://i.imgur.com/fQgM2i6.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Are yous not aware that E-V13 has been found in Iron Age Moldova?

Distance to:	scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp
6.87866266	Albanian_north_Albania
7.29365478	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
7.64342855	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
7.69003251	Albanian_Kosovo
7.71172484	Albanian_Albania
7.80235862	Albanian
7.81294439	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
8.14415128	Albanian_central_Albania
8.32019831	Tuscany
8.68545336	Albanian_Macedonia
8.75502142	Romagna
8.80964490	Kosovo_Albanian
9.07295983	Albanian_south_Albania
9.07667340	Greek_Western-Thrace
9.21926244	Vlach_North-Macedonia
9.23403487	FrenchCorsica
9.39195933	Albanian_Montenegro
9.45345440	Emilia
9.46202410	Tuscan
9.54204381	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
9.55164384	Greek_Thessaly
9.60281729	Greek_Central-Macedonia
9.68273722	Lazio
9.99962999	Umbria
10.20947599	Marche

---

Daco-Getae sample? That would be my guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daos777

Yeah that E-V13 sample is just one of the many that Indo-Europeans assimilated from Cucuteni-Trypillian. I


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

The only Trypillian E is Z830, which sits on a different branch.

https://yfull.com/tree/E-Z830/

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V13/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feiichy

Daco-Getae sample? That would be my guess.

---

Too old for that. He was culturally not Dacian or Getae but Scythian like. His results make complete sense and are inline with similar Cimmerian results who also had very high Neolithic farmer input.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feiichy

Daco-Getae sample? That would be my guess.

---

Yep, I'd bet on that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daos777

Too old for that. He was culturally not Dacian or Getae but Scythian like. His results make complete sense and are inline with similar Cimmerian results who also had very high Neolithic farmer input.

---

Too old? Paleo Balkanites appeared exactly in iron age. He could be culturally Scythian, but genetically obviously not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daos777

Too old for that. He was culturally not Dacian or Getae but Scythian like. His results make complete sense and are inline with similar Cimmerian results who also had very high Neolithic farmer input.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

They are identical to scy300 and scy305 genetically, which are dated to 300BCE.

https://vol-vlad.livejournal.com/1430.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feiichy

Too old? Paleo Balkanites appeared exactly in iron age. He could be culturally Scythian, but genetically obviously not.

---

So what? His mix would make him similar to Paleo-Balkanites not one of them let alone Getae or Dacian. Doesn't mean he or his ancestors directly participated in the ethnogensis of Dacians/Thracians/Getae. If we claim him for Dacian why not all those Cimmerian samples who are also high neolithic?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daos777

So what? His mix would make him similar to Paleo-Balkanites not one of them let alone Getae or Dacian. Doesn't mean he or his ancestors directly participated in the ethnogensis of Dacians/Thracians/Getae. If we claim him for Dacian why not all those Cimmerian samples who are also high neolithic?

---

If you can read Russian, the answer from a local Eastern Euro archeologist who specialises in local ancient pops is here: https://vol-vlad.livejournal.com/1430.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Are yous not aware that E-V13 has been found in Iron Age Moldova?

Distance to:	scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp
6.87866266	Albanian_north_Albania
7.29365478	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
7.64342855	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
7.69003251	Albanian_Kosovo
7.71172484	Albanian_Albania
7.80235862	Albanian
7.81294439	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
8.14415128	Albanian_central_Albania
8.32019831	Tuscany
8.68545336	Albanian_Macedonia
8.75502142	Romagna
8.80964490	Kosovo_Albanian
9.07295983	Albanian_south_Albania
9.07667340	Greek_Western-Thrace
9.21926244	Vlach_North-Macedonia
9.23403487	FrenchCorsica
9.39195933	Albanian_Montenegro
9.45345440	Emilia
9.46202410	Tuscan
9.54204381	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
9.55164384	Greek_Thessaly
9.60281729	Greek_Central-Macedonia
9.68273722	Lazio
9.99962999	Umbria
10.20947599	Marche

---

Yes i'm aware but there's 2 different scy197's not sure which one it was. cant be this one tho because e-v13 moldovan was older than 1650ybp

The Moldovan one is dated 4885-4632 ybp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chris596

This is what I'm also interested in. Clear evidence would be the best. And yep, I checked many calculators and on all of them I score a bit of SSA, so it must be something more recent, not thousands of years old.

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Nah, I have 0% ssa and in all calculators I have on of least components out of many users here, which is a very homogenous trait.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

If you can read Russian, the answer from a local Eastern Euro archeologist who specialises in local ancient pops is here: https://vol-vlad.livejournal.com/1430.html

---

Does it basically say the same thing as this paper but in Russian?

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457