How much E. Asiatic DNA do Kurds have according to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
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How much E. Asiatic DNA do Kurds have according to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Dunno exactly that’s why I was hoping someone would make a k3 calculator with SSA ENF and E Asian but I guess I have to learn Admixture program if no one builds it. It should be more than Eurasia k3 calculator because that one uses Caucasian and European w Eurasian references and those references have some old E EurasianQuote:
Originally Posted by MS85
K3 is not accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
I know that you have got your ideas from here: https://eurasiandna.com/impact-of-th...an-demography/
And if we believe that guy, Kurds can be modeled as this.
https://i.postimg.cc/NFt3xB3h/A66-D2...E77-DD21-E.png
https://i.postimg.cc/Y9znMgsV/4-B4-E...0-BF4499-B.jpg
But, then again, my question will be how much Eastern Asian Mongoloid DNA did proto-Turkic people have? If proto-Tukic XiongNu were 100% Mongoloid, then average of Kurds can be modelled around 17% East Eurasian.
But this model only works if there were absolutely no other migrations into Kurdistan than the proto-Turkic one. But that doesn't make any sense at all. Since there was no proto-Turkic migration into Kurdistan at the first place. And the Oghuz Turks and Seljuks were not proto-Turkic.
Nevertheless, no matter what, Kurds are still at least for about 85% native to Kurdistan. We are West Asian people and our DNA is West Asian/Eurasian in nature.
That’s a good question.I don’t think they were 100% mongoloid so i guess it has to be less than 17% E Eurasian. Btw i like his other model with saka betterQuote:
Originally Posted by MS85
According to him, some E Eurasian came from Saka and some came from Turkic people. But somehow he never combined these 2 models. I'm sure that those proto-Turkic tribes had also EHG + Neo_Iran auDNAQuote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
https://i.postimg.cc/Dwt4yNVJ/377-CA...669885-DAE.png
https://i.postimg.cc/C5sxCFxX/CAE51-...52-C28-B50.jpg
And this models are very limited, since Haji-Firuz-Chl also mixed with the Copper Age Armenians. Kurds have a lot Copper Age Armenian auDNA since the Iron Age.
None of this calculators are accurate and useful since he didn't use Copper Age Armenian auDNA here.
I think the best model for Kurds should be Copper Age Iranians (Haji-Firuz-Chl) + Copper Age Armenians + some Saka/Scythians + some Turkic (Seljuks) + some Semitic (Chaldean, Assyrian, Arabic).
Overall with Saka and Turkic, the Eastern Eurasian/Mongoloid auDNA may not even exceed the 10% line. With other words: Kurds are still overwhelming West Asian people and our culture and language are native to Kurdistan.
Sounds reasonable. We probably got most of our EHG, E Eurasian, and R1a from the eastQuote:
Originally Posted by MS85
Persians have as much mongoloid dna as Kurds. The only Iranic group that possesses the most mongoloid dna are TajiksQuote:
Originally Posted by MS85
Anyway, Persians and Kurds score nearly the same on all genetic results and cluster together on most PCA plots.
Tajiks DONT CLUSTER with Persians from Iran on any PCA plots, nor do they score the same on any autosomal results. What part of dont cluster dont you fucking understand?Quote:
Originally Posted by MS85
Tajiks are mixed with other people in Central Asian. But their Farsi language is from Iran. What part don't you understand?Quote:
Originally Posted by Babak
Just because they speak the same language, it doesn't mean they are the same people. They are not geentically the same and are pretty different from Iranians as a whole. Tajiks assimilated themselves when they established the Samanid empire and made Persian as the official language.Quote:
Originally Posted by MS85
Well, I don't know about the Persians, haven't seen 'pure' Persian DNA yet, but an average Iranian (Persian, Caspian Iranians (Gilakis, Mazandaranis, Tats, Talysh), Azeri & Turkmen have more Mongoloid auDNA than Kurds. I have compared my DNA with Azeri folks here and all of them score more Eastern Eurasian. And I'm sure many Persians are mixed with people like Azeri etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babak
Persians and Kurds don't cluster together, but very, very close to each other. We are not the 'same' people. Persians are Southwest Iranian and Kurds are Northwest Iranian. Nevertheless Persians are the closest people to the Kurds.
Tajiks are pretty varied. I would like to see some Herati Tajik kits since they are so close to the Iranian border and Khorasan where about 2 million kurds live. Haven’t seen any kits yet though or for that matter for Khorasani kurds or Persians. I noticed there were some Kurds on FB even in Birjand with a search for “kord birjand”Quote:
Originally Posted by Babak
Heratis will be closer to Khorasanis and eastern Iranians in general, but Tajiks from Tajikistan are not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
You don't understand the concept of being mixed and the 'deep roots' or origin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babak
Tajiks don't cluster because they are mixed with Pashtuns, Uzbeks/Kyrgyzs, Tatars, Russians and GOD knows who else. That's why they cluster in Central Asia. But the deep roots and the origin of Tajiks/Tajik language is in Persia.
History. Early New Persian (pārsi-e dari), a continuation of spoken Middle Persian, spread to Central Asia during the 8th century CE as the language of Iranian converts to Islam who were attached to the invading Arab armies. The Samanid rulers of Bukhara (9th-10th centuries) patronized it as the literary language, in which form it soon spread throughout Iran. In the region of Samarqand it displaced Sogdian, the indigenous Iranian language, whose descendant (Yaghnobi) still survives in the mountains of western Tajikistan. As a written language, Persian of Central Asia was hardly distinguishable from Classical Persian of Iran, Afghanistan, and India up until the early 20th century. From Timurid times (15th century), Indo-Persian was modeled on the writing of Central Asia; this influence can still be seen in some vocabulary common to Tajik and Indo-Persian/Urdu, which is not usual in Persian of Iran. Invasions and settlement of Turkic peoples in the Oxus basin and its foothills during the past one thousand years (most recently, the Uzbeks) interrupted the dialect continuum. Spoken Persian of Central Asia evolved independently of Persian of Iran, and northern dialects in particular were strongly influenced by Turkic speech. Persian speakers of the region came to be called Tajiks, in contradistinction to Turks, but their language was still called fārsi ‘Persian’ until the Soviet period.
http://www.iranicaonline.org/article...tajiki-persian
Lol bro, you keep on trying to to isolate Kurds as if they are some untouched ethnic group, when in reality, on all autosomal results and pca plots, they don't score much different from any Iranic group. They aren't anything special.Quote:
Originally Posted by MS85
We are very special because we are the 'purest' West Iranic ethnic group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babak
Once again, don't know much about the 'Persian' DNA, but even the Caspian Iranians (Gilakis, Mazandaranis, Tats, Talysh) are influenced by Turkic people.
You made me now very curious about the pure 'Persian' DNA.
West Asian runs on G25. Persians get more mongoloid than kurds actually. Iranian persian average gets 3% mongola. West asians in general have virtually no AASI, except for bandaris at 7.5%. so there's no direct gene flow from south asians at any point to majority of iran. I think most of the south asian that shows up in iranians is from the iran neolithic/BMAC.. Uzbeks surprisingly have the most AASI in the west/central asian region, outside the pashtuns/balochis obviously.
Mongoloid is highest among Tajiks as you guys mentioned at around 8%. Turks can reach around 15% mongoloid on average in Aydin.
https://i.imgur.com/XD9rFMX.png
EHG was already present with high degree in the Copper Age Armenians. Some R1a, like mine R1a*, is native to Kurdistan. But I'm sure that Scythians brought a lot of their own specific R1a into Kurdistan, or Parthians who assimilated many Saka.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Is that Iranian kurdish?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thambi
Sorry but you just proved to me that G25 is a total joke to put it mildly. These E Eurasian results for Persians and Kurds are not consistent with qpAdm or Admixture. And look at Azeris scoring so different than kurds, persians, and even higher than pashtunsQuote:
Originally Posted by Thambi
Figures with the likes of Davidski and DMXX connected to it . :picard1:
I wouldn’t be surprised if DMXX and Davidski are the same person
I know history, because I actually did study some ancient history on academic level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thambi
Actual testing is much more important than feelings, because feelings can be misguide and the one can be cheated by the feelings. But my feeling is saying that Persians have more of the so called 'Mongroloid' auDNA because Persians have a lot history/interaction with Turkic speaking people, while Kurds in their Zagros Mountains have almost no history with Turkic people at all. Our mountains are actually the best genetic barrier, because we, as tribalic people, don't really mix with other races deep in our mountains. Mixing takes mostly place in the centers and core areas (big towns). Kurdish mountains have been peripheral since the collapse of the Median Empire.
Lol I was about to say this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Such models are fun, but are not really generalizable on everybody. Different ethnic groups have different roots mixed with different people and have different admixture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Such models are not generalizable because migration/mixing trajectories for every ethnic groups are different. Every group needs own model that can fit into their history.
By the way, those 2 people you mentioned are ignorant morons big time without any knowledge or sense for history.
Do we even know If these clowns are 2 people or just one. The other weird thing is I googled Davidski and there’s nothing on his background or even his picture. Also he’s always busy with his blog. How can he even have time for work or maybe he lives with his parents lolQuote:
Originally Posted by MS85
wait how are they inconsistent? Azeris are turkic and they generally do get more mongoloid than persians and pashtuns. why is that surprising? and pashtuns in general dont get much mongoloid. They're pretty much like their punjabi neighbors with extra mongoloid/Iran_N and lower AASI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
What I meant is neither qpAdm or Admixture shows kurds, Mazendaranis, pashtuns, or punjabis with 0% E Asian. Also there is no way Punjabis are AASI only with no E Asian and Pashtuns only 3% E Asian. That’s total bullshit. I can go on and on but it would be a waste of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thambi
One is a Polish retard and a very confused wannabe Aryan fella, the other is most likely an Assyrian who hates Kurds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
I do agree with you. Also, the source populations are very weird, don't make sense at all and don't correlate with the actual history of the outcoming groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
I thought he was Polish too named David Wesolowski but I googled that name and got nothing. You would expect some background if he was half a some body. I also googled the other one dmxx and just got rappers :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by MS85
can you recommend the groups? I'm not very strong on the ancient populationsQuote:
Originally Posted by MS85
here's the webrunner. It takes a min to load and all.
185.144.156.77:3000/
custom calculators
185.144.156.77:3000/custom_calculators.html
With other words, just a bunch of ignorant amateurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
DMX is a well known American rapper.
Honestly it depends which ethnic groups do you want to test. Because every ethnic group is different and different models are required.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thambi
But the idea is great. Let me think about it!
double post
Of course if you mix a European and an Asian you are not going to have the gene pairs that lead to distinct eastern traits, but if you mix 2 people from a pool people with 5% EE ancestry you are going to some Eastern looking people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Who cares what you think, you didn't make a solid case anyway, you are literally denying real and valid genetic results and advocating for ones with ridiculous low number of clusterQuote:
So I’ll never be convinced 5% is enough case closed.
Them looking alike is really questionable, it might be down to Iranian Neolithic ancestry anyway.Quote:
Second, remember the many Indian looking S Iraqis like the ones I posted on the previous page we can both agree there wasn’t alot of admixture between them and Indians recently otherwise admixture calculators would pick it up. I think that’s old shared some sore of Mesopotamian or some Neolithic farmer between the 2.
Sakas were not that Eastern Eurasian and again, for any % point of Eastern Eurasian there would be many more of non-EE Steppe ancestry, which would be far more evident than it is in reality.Quote:
With regards to population replacement who said all the E Asian in W Asians was a 1 time event. It’s actually due to multiple waves from the east starting around the Iron Age with Saka and then various Turkic .
3 clusters is too low, add at least ASI.Quote:
I think you gave me an incentive to learn admixture software to build a k3 SSA, ENF, E Asian calculator. Let the chips fall where they may :)
What about stuff like the Mauryan conquests, spread of Buddhism, Gypsy migration? Did those bring no relevant amount of Indians around Iran and Central Asia, outside the direct reach of the Indian empires in Afghanistan?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thambi
Tajiks are basically Pashtun-Mongoloid hybrids, Tajiks have good deal of diversity and google images whitewash tajiks by showing lightest pamiris , most Tajiks I have seen in Europe look like mexicans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babak
Yea, i noticed the same thing lolQuote:
Originally Posted by lameduck
Histroical Infleuce of Indian world on Iranian world was mainly limited to South Central Asia , basically modern day West Pakistan and East Afghanistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpFork