"Proto-Iranians were not Northern Europeans"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hashoeva

And a tatar is not a slav.

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No, but Slavs mixed with Mongoloid Tatars and became new modern Eastern European ethnicities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Token

Look at the kits that Leto posted and tell me if there is any Iranian Neolithic there. Come on, don't be dumb like these Iranian autists.

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Can you explain me why are these kits considered as Indo-Iranian at the first place? Who is an autist here, lol.

@ Token,

Why are you not answering my questions? Why are you not willing to really discuss with me about this issue?

I've got a few questions for you.

Question 1.

Why do you guys consider early Sintashta/Andronovo as proto-Indo-Iranian? What links them to the ARYAN language?


Question 2.

Indo-Iranian (Avestan & Sanskrit) has ergativity. Where is ergativity in Iranian language from?


Question 3.

When did Aryans supposedly arrived on the Iranian Plateau? I want to know an approximate date.


Question 4.

Why are ancient ARYAN BMAC samples from kurgans etc. not related to Andronovo?


Question 5.

Why Europeans do not speak an ARYAN language?


I've got more questions, but you can start answering this 5 first.

@Token,

If you are not willing to answer my questions, I'm going to consider you as an autist troll big time! I don't need empty statements. Africans are as much Aryans as Europeans are, maybe even more, lol. I want a real discussion, this is all I ask.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jolsonaro

Did Indo-Europeans arealdy looked like nordids when they were in South Asia?

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they were massive built, had brachy/mesocephaly and mainly brown hair . Some were blonde and some black haired. They were mainly not blue eyed but around 33% had blue eyes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MS85

No, but Slavs mixed with Mongoloid Tatars and became new modern Eastern European ethnicities.

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well your ethnicity on your profile is pretty accurate

Can anyone say, for example, what is common between steppe cultures and Iranians?
There is nothing in common.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chelubey

Can anyone say, for example, what is common between steppe cultures and Iranians?
There is nothing in common.

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That is because the Mongols drove the Iranians out of almost all of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. That entire area was Iranian before the Mongol hordes forced them into Iran, Armenia, Turkey and Northern Iraq.The remnants of that connection is Azerbaijan and the Kurds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarazm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean

That is because the Mongols drove the Iranians out of almost all of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. That entire area was Iranian before the Mongol hordes forced them into Iran, Armenia, Turkey and Northern Iraq.The remnants of that connection is Azerbaijan and the Kurds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarazm

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I mean I do not see any cultural connections between the steppe peoples and the Iranians.
For example.
Chuvash clothes:
http://gov.cap.ru/Home/102//2007/kartinki/p6210032.jpg
http://art16.ru/gallery2/d/98560-9/dsc04766.jpg
Andronovans clothes:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...an_culture.jpg

Or the light frame dwellings of the late Andronovans, as many archaeologists believe, became the prototype of the Turkic light dwellings
http://cleversite.narod.ru/urta.jpg

And why the religion of the Scythians has no connection with Indo-Iranian mythology/religion, but it is similar to the Hunnic religion and cults. The Scythians, like the Huns, worshiped sword according to historical chronicles?
Where are these cultural connections with Iranians?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Token

Everything you wrote in this post is false. Look at the kits that Leto posted and tell me if there is any Iranian Neolithic there. Come on, don't be dumb like these Iranian autists.

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We've already accepted that Modern Iranians aren't that close to Proto-Iranics you imbecile. Its you that has issues accepting the fact that they didn't descend from todays North Europeans populations, but rather a population that was North-european like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean

That is because the Mongols drove the Iranians out of almost all of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. That entire area was Iranian before the Mongol hordes forced them into Iran, Armenia, Turkey and Northern Iraq.The remnants of that connection is Azerbaijan and the Kurds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarazm

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Close. They didn't force them into Iran, but they wiped out 60% of the population. Later, Turkics came in, mixed with the locals and assimilated the rest of the remaining population.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arhat

they were massive built, had brachy/mesocephaly and mainly brown hair . Some were blonde and some black haired. They were mainly not blue eyed but around 33% had blue eyes

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So they were like brunns and borrebies?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chelubey

I mean I do not see any cultural connections between the steppe peoples and the Iranians.
For example.
Chuvash clothes:
http://gov.cap.ru/Home/102//2007/kartinki/p6210032.jpg
http://art16.ru/gallery2/d/98560-9/dsc04766.jpg
Andronovans clothes:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...an_culture.jpg

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How did you establish that this indeed is Andronovo attire? Is it dressmakers imagination or a model based on concrete physical evidence aka excavations? I see that the garment's geolocation is in some place in Almaty. I witnessed an interesting case recently. In some Kazakh museum, there was this belt but the buckle was quite old, and on it were some letters which resembled Old Turkic and in the museum description tag it was written Old Turkic inscriptions. The photo was posted in another forum, it turns out the letters are actually eastern Arabic numerals, 1898 or something.

You also cannot post modern "folk" clothing which is often inspirational or made to fit certain recent discoveries. If this is actually Andronovo model attire, you have to post old photos of Chuvashes, to be certain of the fact that Chuvashes wore similar kind of clothing a hundred years back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chelubey

Or the light frame dwellings of the late Andronovans, as many archaeologists believe, became the prototype of the Turkic light dwellings
http://cleversite.narod.ru/urta.jpg

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Records do not indicate that proto-Turks or even old Turks lived in yurts (as in foldable mobile houses). But records do indicate, that yurts (their descriptions) are becoming common with Mongolic activity in the region. Yurts evolved from Mongolic gers. Prior to that Turkics lived in tents like their Iranic predecessors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean

That is because the Mongols drove the Iranians out of almost all of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. That entire area was Iranian before the Mongol hordes forced them into Iran, Armenia, Turkey and Northern Iraq.The remnants of that connection is Azerbaijan and the Kurds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarazm

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Iranic nomads were absorbed long before that. There might have been few remaining ones prior to immediate Mongol expansion. The ones that were in southern Kazahstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan were settled ones, mostly eastern Iranics but probably by that time already mixed with Persians. According to records large areas of Uzbekistan, southern Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan were bilingual (that's 11th century). Mongols facilitated Turkicization.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arhat

well your ethnicity on your profile is pretty accurate

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You are talking about yourself.

watch from 2:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a34TgLS9Tj8

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chelubey

Can anyone say, for example, what is common between steppe cultures and Iranians?
There is nothing in common.

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Neolithic_Iranian Plateau auDNA in both groups.

""-Most notably, the huge, 2015 study, by Peter A. Underhill et al., using 16,244 individuals from over 126 populations from across Eurasia, concluded that there was "compelling evidence that the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran." "

"The study also concluded that R1a is present in South Asia ACROSS linguistic groups including Indo European, Dravidian and tribal groups. Given the close connections between Indo-Iranian texts it is clear that ancient South and West Asia were as multilingual as they are today. Iranian Avestha itself traces its roots back to South Asia and the Sindhu (Indus) Sarasvati civilization. "

Lmaooooo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yaglakar

Records do not indicate that proto-Turks or even old Turks lived in yurts (as in foldable mobile houses). But records do indicate, that yurts (their descriptions) are becoming common with Mongolic activity in the region. Yurts evolved from Mongolic gers. Prior to that Turkics lived in tents like their Iranic predecessors.

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Tent?How could it be heated in winter ? What is the records? Yurt is from mongolic ger- what is promongolic fantasy? Mongolic etimology of yurt?

This thread turned into a big shitfest.

First of all, most Iranians don't have a considerable amount of "Aryan" genetic contribution, I myself only have 12%, we are predominantly natives with a small steppe admix that were culturally and linguistically assimilated. Kurds and Persians don't have much in resemblance compared to the Proto-Iranian Andronovo culture, the attire, dialect and culture differs albeit having some similarities here and there.

But Proto-Iranians weren't "Northern European", they were more Eastern European because of their high EHG admix, Andronovo itself plots in Eastern Europe. Mesolithic Iranians btw already had some EHG while the more Southern neolithic groups had almost none.

Andronovo is slightly north of Poland in Eurogenes K15:

https://i.imgur.com/sESmEd8.png

Plotting north of Poles is not Northern European now :picard1:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ayetooey

""-Most notably, the huge, 2015 study, by Peter A. Underhill et al., using 16,244 individuals from over 126 populations from across Eurasia, concluded that there was "compelling evidence that the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran." "

"The study also concluded that R1a is present in South Asia ACROSS linguistic groups including Indo European, Dravidian and tribal groups. Given the close connections between Indo-Iranian texts it is clear that ancient South and West Asia were as multilingual as they are today. Iranian Avestha itself traces its roots back to South Asia and the Sindhu (Indus) Sarasvati civilization. "

Lmaooooo

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Makes sense

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chelubey

Tent?How could it be heated in winter ? What is the records? Yurt is from mongolic ger- what is promongolic fantasy? Mongolic etimology of yurt?

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I don't think there a Turkic group which refers to yurts as yurts in their own respective languages. Yurt may refer to home, land, country, domain or place of living. By "Yurts" we understand a construction which can put together and dismantled at will with the walls of the frame folded in orderly manner, not only some kind of temporary twig structure. There are no descriptions of yurts prior to movement of Mongolic peoples. First Chinese records describe Mongolic dwellings. The appearance of yurts in Central Asia is linked to a period between Qara Khitai and Mongols (11-13th century). What we see today, Turkmen, Kazakh and Kirghiz yurts evolved from Mongolic type dwellings.

Cumans:

http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/AMI/images/ami1-455.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._vs_Cumans.jpg

There also many dwellings with a brick-clay foundation.

Azerbaijan:


https://imgprx.livejournal.net/91c54...IBl8W8pampjmeQ

https://imgprx.livejournal.net/7a4b2...O3qiUgXePCCmho

Шатры essentially, and pretty warm as well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

They probably didn't. I guess they were more like Scythians or a mix of Caucasians and Balto-Slavs. In India they must have been heavily outnumbered by the natives.

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How scythians looked?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jolsonaro

How scythians looked?

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Prolly like this. He is a Balkar (Northwest Caucasian)
https://www.kavkaz-uzel.eu/system/up...6/view_new.jpg
https://amp.kavkaz-uzel.eu/system/up..._image_new.jpg

Karachay-Balkars are often R1a (20-30% or something in the ballpark) and apparently have a significant amount of Aryan blood. They speak a Kipchak Turkic language.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yaglakar

I don't think there a Turkic group which refers to yurts as yurts in their own respective languages. Yurt may refer to home, land, country, domain or place of living. By "Yurts" we understand a construction which can put together and dismantled at will with the walls of the frame folded in orderly manner, not only some kind of temporary twig structure. There are no descriptions of yurts prior to movement of Mongolic peoples. First Chinese records describe Mongolic dwellings. The appearance of yurts in Central Asia is linked to a period between Qara Khitai and Mongols (11-13th century). What we see today, Turkmen, Kazakh and Kirghiz yurts evolved from Mongolic type dwellings.

Cumans:

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https://fetr.org/articles/tyurkskaya...lichiya-tipov/
It says here that Mongolian and Turkic yurts are constructively different and in fact are an ethnic marker.
Turkic yurts due to the special design have no central columns. The Mongolian yurt has straight roof poles and is lower than the Turkic one. Although some experts argue that the Mongolian yurt is being made lower because of strong winds in Mongolia but this argument is very bad. The force of the wind in the Kazakh steppes is not very different from the force of the wind in the Mongolian steppes. In addition, the Kalmyks also use the Mongolian type of yurt.
The real advantages of the Mongolian yurt are:
1) Mongolian yurt is much easier to make
2) Mongolian yurt is much easier to assemble.
But the Mongolian yurt is less convenient.
In fact, the Mongolian yurt is a constructively simplified version of the Turkic yurt.
The Mongolian version is actually structurally closer to the tent. After all, the main feature of the Turkic yurt is the absence of supporting columns due to its special construction.
All this suggests that the Mongolian yurt is most likely a simplified version of the Turkic yurt, and the Turkic yurt is not a complicated version of the Mongolian yurt.
This is generally a Mongolian tradition : simplicity to the detriment of comfort. Mongolian carts are also more primitive than Turkic one.
In addition, it is very difficult to imagine that various Turkic peoples, in the 11th-13th century already long divided, began to build the same type of yurt ("Turkic columnless") while borrowing the main constructive idea from the Mongols only in the 13th century. It is obvious that various traditions of manufacture of portable dwellings among the Mongols and Turks appeared a long time ago, probably even at pra-Turkic or pra-Mongolic times.
As i know, the Turks have their original vocabulary for parts of the construction of a portable dwelling and they are not borrowed from the Mongols.
In addition, I do not know of any famous archaeologist / specialist who holds your views on this problem. This is probably your own hypothesis.
I think that my deductive arguments cost more than your arguments, probably based only on the random chronological coincidence of the first detailed description of yurts in the historical literature and visual arts and the Mongolian expansion of 11-13 centuries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chelubey

https://fetr.org/articles/tyurkskaya...lichiya-tipov/
It says here that Mongolian and Turkic yurts are constructively different and in fact are an ethnic marker.
Turkic yurts due to the special design have no central columns. The Mongolian yurt has straight roof poles and is lower than the Turkic one. Although some experts argue that the Mongolian yurt is being made lower because of strong winds in Mongolia but this argument is very bad. The force of the wind in the Kazakh steppes is not very different from the force of the wind in the Mongolian steppes. In addition, the Kalmyks also use the Mongolian type of yurt.
The real advantages of the Mongolian yurt are:
1) Mongolian yurt is much easier to make
2) Mongolian yurt is much easier to assemble.
But the Mongolian yurt is less convenient.
In fact, the Mongolian yurt is a constructively simplified version of the Turkic yurt.
The Mongolian version is actually structurally closer to the tent. After all, the main feature of the Turkic yurt is the absence of supporting columns due to its special construction.
All this suggests that the Mongolian yurt is most likely a simplified version of the Turkic yurt, and the Turkic yurt is not a complicated version of the Mongolian yurt.
This is generally a Mongolian tradition : simplicity to the detriment of comfort. Mongolian carts are also more primitive than Turkic one.
In addition, it is very difficult to imagine that various Turkic peoples, in the 11th-13th century already long divided, began to build the same type of yurt ("Turkic columnless") while borrowing the main constructive idea from the Mongols only in the 13th century. It is obvious that various traditions of manufacture of portable dwellings among the Mongols and Turks appeared a long time ago, probably even at pra-Turkic or pra-Mongolic times.
As i know, the Turks have their original vocabulary for parts of the construction of a portable dwelling and they are not borrowed from the Mongols.
In addition, I do not know of any famous archaeologist / specialist who holds your views on this problem. This is probably your own hypothesis.
I think that my deductive arguments cost more than your arguments, probably based only on the random chronological coincidence of the first detailed description of yurts in the historical literature and visual arts and the Mongolian expansion of 11-13 centuries.

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It happened earlier than 13th century, and is linked to increased activity of Mongolic peoples in the region prior to Genghis Khan. Proto-Turks (forest dwellers) adopted Indo-European tents and nomadic culture (including burial practices and stone stelae). Yurts were invented by Mongolic peoples. One can look at Yoruks, they don't have Yurts, why? Because Mongolic culture did not reach them. Cultural vestiges can be observed during Turkic weddings when tents rather than Yurts are placed for the couple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yaglakar

Proto-Turks (forest dwellers) adopted Indo-European tents and nomadic culture (including burial practices and stone stelae).

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Proof? I mean proof, not private opininon some experts. For example, give lingvistic proofs.
Forest dwellers and sedentary farmers? This is being reconstructed for the pra-mongol peoples.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yaglakar

Yurts were invented by Mongolic peoples. One can look at Yoruks, they don't have Yurts, why? Because Mongolic culture did not reach them. Cultural vestiges can be observed during Turkic weddings when tents rather than Yurts are placed for the couple.

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Turkic peoples had several types of stationary and portable dwellings. Yurt is one of them.
Yuruks use a dwelling which is typical for Middle Eastern nomadic -Berbers and Kurds. "Regional cultural community".
Central Asian Turkmen use yurts.
I gave the link.
The Turkic yurt is much more complicated than the Mongol one.
I know the reason for this - the Mongols just did not have craftsmen/artisans to make complicated yurts and they were poor, so they made a simplified version of a Turkic yurts

In addition, this is physics.
The shape of the yurt is ideal for keeping warm and it is comfortable.
Yurt is very suitable for northern latitudes.
It is not very relevant for the Middle East

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Token

The purpose of this thread is to shut the mouth of the Iranic WE WUZ'ers who deny that Indo-Iranic was brought by Northern Europeans to South Asia.

[1] "distance%=1.3205"
Pashtun

BMAC,34.8
Indus_Valley_Civilization,34.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,26.2
Mongola,4.2

[1] "distance%=1.6721"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,71.4
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21.2
Onge,4.2
Mongola,2.6
BMAC,0.6

[1] "distance%=1.4714"
Brahmin_Gujarat

Indus_Valley_Civilization,64.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21
BMAC,13.4
Mongola,0.8

[1] "distance%=1.8399"
Gujarati

Indus_Valley_Civilization,87.2
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,11.8
BMAC,0.6
Mongola,0.4

[1] "distance%=1.6467"
Tajik_Yagnobi

BMAC,50
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,43.4
Mongola,6.6

Now lets me make a experiment, what if we replace Russian_Steppe_MLBA for Scandinavians?

[1] "distance%=1.689"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,73.8
Norwegian,19.4
Mongola,3
Onge,2.4
BMAC,1.4

Works equally well.
Norwegian-like admixture in Brahmins? This is not possibru...
Cope with that, Iranians.

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LMAO. Proto-Iranic and proto-Indo-Iranic are 2 different things.

South Asia is not 'Iranic', but mostly Hindu/Vedic.

Geneflow from the Steppes into South Asia occurred around 1500BC. It was long after proto-Indo-Iranics were gone.

theyre from russia, but they are more ancestrial to aryans of central asia than to europeans. only few certain russians got this aryan ancestry.

the aryans almost died in europe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guti

LMAO. Proto-Iranic and proto-Indo-Iranic are 2 different things.

South Asia is not 'Iranic', but mostly Hindu/Vedic.

Geneflow from the Steppes into South Asia occurred around 1500BC. It was long after proto-Indo-Iranics were gone.

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What the fuck's your problem with Steppe ancestry? Just admit that your people are a mix of multiple different things, as most nations today, especially bigger ones. Your ancestry is mostly not from the Steppe, you are right about that. But the proto-Iranic language did come down from the Steppe. There's nothing controversial about that. Even if the new Southern Ark hypothesis is correct (which is far from certain), Iran and Kurdistan got Indo-Europeanized much later than that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

But the proto-Iranic language did come down from the Steppe.

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Proto-Indo-Iranian, proto-Indo-Aryan (Vedic Sanskrit) and proto-Iranic (related to Avestan) are 3 different things. Just think about that.

Even proto-Western Iranic has a different origin than the proto-Iranic.

Like proto-Slavic has a different origin than proto-Balto-Slavic. Or proto-Eastern Slavic has different origin than proto-Western Slavic.


https://i.postimg.cc/QtCj4xXx/iranian-lanuage-tree.png



This is how Kurdic is related to other Northwestern Iranic langauges.

https://i.postimg.cc/HxbRpqs1/zaza.jpg

glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/kurd1259

The Andronovo people had disappeared before those ancient books were written.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

The Andronovo people had disappeared before those ancient books were written.

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Ok. But I am 100% sure they (Andronovo) didn't speak proto-Iranic, let alone proto-Western Iranic. At max proto-Indo-Iranian or even proto-Indo-Aryan or something.


What I am trying to say is that even if proto-Iranic ancestors of the Kurds were somehow related to the Andronovo Horizon, they came NOT from Andronovo Horizon when they migrated into Kurdistan. When they arrived in Kurdistan they were not the same people you could find in the Steppes at that time.

Guti, please try this model for me

Code:

---

MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave,0.0247883,-0.4316,0.0744604,-0.0324077,-0.0641144,-0.0424223,0.0110716,0.0203838,0.0101353,0.0177378,-0.0425639,-0.0023647,-0.000165,0.0003823,4.51e-05,-0.0017383,0.0008403,-0.0046594,-0.0001953,0.0198567,-0.0247064,-0.0017723,-0.0200073,-0.0059041,0.0012639
RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA,0.037562,-0.424491,0.154997,0.001938,-0.14495,-0.085341,0.019506,0.031845,0.028633,0.005832,0.086878,-0.00015,0.011298,-0.04803,-0.045466,-0.027711,0.000261,0.006714,0.004148,-0.009379,0.026204,0.001607,0.002218,0.004338,0.008502
CHN_Yellow_River_LN,0.0166466,-0.4503874,0.0109365,-0.0657709,0.0545101,0.0217886,0.0037894,0.0012404,-0.0097149,0.0040092,-0.0851524,-0.0100032,0.0123945,-0.0059179,-0.0088896,-0.000895,0.001483,-0.0003801,-0.0048392,-0.0075191,0.0172975,0.007543,0.0128639,-0.0006476,0.0073496
KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA,0.1238396,0.1092712,0.057247,0.0803624,0.006832,0.0277774,0.0055462,0.0020308,-0.0176302,-0.028356,-0.0004872,-0.0001198,0.0004164,-0.0231206,0.0219864,0.0119594,-0.007171,-0.001723,-0.0012318,0.0021012,-0.0054654,0.00413,-0.0005918,0.0059282,-0.0022992
Levant_Megiddo_MLBA,0.0861261,0.1455592,-0.0646134,-0.1002072,-0.014596,-0.0394563,-0.0045434,-0.0097249,0.0131382,0.0089382,0.0103465,-0.0088707,0.0219027,0.0020119,-0.007316,0.005411,-0.0024898,0.004217,0.0036812,0.0073607,0.0047534,0.0040982,-0.0049357,-0.0025361,-0.0014427
TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA,0.1050018,0.1515678,-0.042332,-0.082365,-0.0040775,-0.0274705,-0.0024088,-0.0077882,-0.011402,0.028429,0.0097435,0.007006,-0.0120788,0.0030965,-0.0138435,-0.004475,0.0116693,-0.0021538,0.0087988,-0.00741,-0.0031817,0.0061828,-0.0048065,0.0030725,-0.001407
IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C,0.0780205,0.0973985,-0.1210557,-0.0128319,-0.0964655,0.0129052,0.0135666,-0.0041957,-0.0710069,-0.0366129,-0.0049454,-0.0008311,-0.0011082,-0.0034781,0.0189268,0.0286995,-0.0069221,0.0043305,0.0072791,-0.0235001,0.0067043,-0.0146134,-0.0055349,-0.0227852,0.01339
IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,0.043708,-0.0327002,-0.170006,0.0950268,-0.1047582,0.0568936,0.0063452,0.0041998,0.0056858,0.0067428,-0.0051964,0.0079128,-0.0018436,-0.0031928,0.0098534,0.0097852,-0.0023732,0.0025084,0.0016342,-0.0142568,0.0029694,-0.0125136,-0.0011832,-0.0119052,0.001317
KEN_Nyarindi_3500BP,-0.528139,0.049761,-0.012445,0.010013,-0.016926,0.008367,0.098469,-0.08192,0.06422,-0.052848,-0.013316,0.018733,-0.029583,-0.011973,0.017372,-0.007425,0.027902,0.03978,-0.008925,-0.004127,-0.005865,0.017806,-0.007518,0.003494,0.00467

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guti

Ok. But I am 100% sure they (Andronovo) didn't speak proto-Iranic, let alone proto-Western Iranic. At max proto-Indo-Iranian or even proto-Indo-Aryan or something.


What I am trying to say is that even if proto-Iranic ancestors of the Kurds were somehow related to the Andronovo Horizon, they came NOT from Andronovo Horizon when they migrated into Kurdistan. When they arrived in Kurdistan they were not the same people you could find in the Steppes at that time.

---

They already assimilated in modern day Iran.

Target: Guti_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.4276% / 0.01427578
38.2 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
25.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
19.2 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.8 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
1.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA

https://i.postimg.cc/HL8CXByz/Guti.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Babak

They already assimilated in modern day Iran.

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Who?

IF it is true what the majority of the academic world is claiming, and that Kurdish Iranic ancestors came from Central Asia, then they (the Medes) arrived from BMAC/Yaz and not from Andronovo. So, if we are going to link the Medes to Yaz (BMAC) that would mean that Kurds would have by far more Iranic ancestry then what people here are claiming.