Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in southern Albania

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Originally Posted by Loki

Have all ancient remains been found and DNA tested?

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and all ancient remains will never be tested. but that is a "god of the gaps" type argument tho.

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Originally Posted by Dick

I never bothered learning about other y-dna clades other than my own but I2a1 seems very interesting regarding the balkans. I wonder why it's more common with balkan slavs than with other slavs.

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Because it could still be native Balkanic (maybe northwestern) that rapidly expanded at some point in time. Slavic expansion the way most people imagine it is another bullshit theory that relies on barely any evidence. We know for sure they migrated to Greece/Eastern Roman Empire but we don't know the exact origin of the people that did this. They could very well be similar to modern South Slavs. Even Illyrians, Thracians, Dardanians etc. could have spoken an earlier version of Slavic for all we know.

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Originally Posted by Loki

I2a1 is not Slavic.

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Loki, why do you keep repeating this? just curious

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Originally Posted by nightrider+

Because it could still be native Balkanic (maybe northwestern) that rapidly expanded at some point in time. Slavic expansion the way most people imagine it is another bullshit theory that relies on barely any evidence. We know for sure they migrated to Greece/Eastern Roman Empire but we don't know the exact origin of the people that did this. They could very well be similar to modern South Slavs. Even Illyrians, Thracians, Dardanians etc. could have spoken an earlier version of Slavic for all we know.

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I think Florin Curta's theories of ethnogenesis of slavs (they only became "slavs" once they crossed the Danube) are interesting, but kind of outdated. I2a1b dinaric is a little bit odd (but getting increasingly certain its spread is linked to dark age migrations in east europe) but there is still r1a1 that pretty well establishes a fairly localized origin of east-central europe for incubator of proto-slavs. whether they added other paleobalkanic, germanic, and pannonian folks to their numbers (as is common in warrior tribal societies) obvious.

Only CTS10228 is "Slavic" - I2a1 is definitely not SLavic neither is I2a-Din

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Only CTS10228 is "Slavic" - I2a1 is definitely not SLavic neither is I2a-Din

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Ok but all them ancient remains and no I2 Dinaric.

All proof points to its Slavic . Only nationalism points to its not. Ad Nauseum

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Originally Posted by Scholarios

Ok but all them ancient remains and no I2 Dinaric.

All proof points to its Slavic . Only nationalism points to its not. Ad Nauseum

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But it doesnt make sense majority of subclades of I2a1 P37.2 is found in west Europe not east Europe.

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Originally Posted by Scholarios

I think Florin Curta's theories of ethnogenesis of slavs (they only became "slavs" once they crossed the Danube) are interesting, but kind of outdated. I2a1b dinaric is a little bit odd (but getting increasingly certain its spread is linked to dark age migrations in east europe) but there is still r1a1 that pretty well establishes a fairly localized origin of east-central europe for incubator of proto-slavs. whether they added other paleobalkanic, germanic, and pannonian folks to their numbers (as is common in warrior tribal societies) obvious.

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But now we know that R1a1 was already present in Bronze Age Bulgaria.

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Originally Posted by nightrider+

But now we know that R1a1 was already present in Bronze Age Bulgaria.

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Yes, but if I am not mistaken, it seems to be a Iranic/Sarmatian clade which is not present in the Balkans today (outside of Roma populations maybe?).

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Originally Posted by Scholarios

Yes, but if I am not mistaken, it seems to be a Iranic/Sarmatian clade which is not present in the Balkans today (outside of Roma populations maybe?).

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True but iirc it was found in Corded Ware Germany too. It could have already been in the Balkans back then, its frequency around here is still quite low anyway.