Dodecad k12b West & Central Asian results Vol 4.

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01-26-2021, 04:06 PM
Sterling Archer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoro

Somethiing like this Kurd from Turkey?

[/IMG]

No, friend also has ash blond hair(which got a bit darker), blue eyes and is ghastly pale.

More like these yoruks:
https://i.imgur.com/d2oXP0A.png
01-26-2021, 04:24 PM
Kyp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sterling Archer

North Azeris form sort of a continuum with Dagestani people, and are very close to Lezgin, Avars, etc.
Dagestani Azeris (from Russia) are even more northern shifted. I have seen one with more than 20% NE for example.

Western Azeris tend to have the highest East Asian admixture and tend to be similar to Turks from Turkey. I have seen a result of Azerbaijani from Gadabay (in western (republic) Azerbaijan) who actually was closest to Yoruk. I think it was poseted by Kyp. Maybe he can dug it up ))
I have personal friend from Gadabay who has epithantic fold ))) This region (Gadabay) also tend to produce quite a lot of blond, blue eyed people for some reason. Go figure ))

I think you are overexaggerating the differences a bit. I wouldn't go that far in saying they form a continuum with Avars and Lezgins. Although Lezgin ancestry seems to be present in North of the Republic.
Also Northwestern Azerbaijanis are not closer to Turks than they are to other Azerbaijanis. The old Yoruk average was fishy and is now deleted it was based on one sample from Adana (Southern Turkey). I have pretty much all results from the Northwest and they are still closer to other Azerbaijanis, just their East Asian is a bit higher. My father has epithantic fold too even I have it a bit.

Here is the average for Northwest Gedebay/Aghstafa etc.:

Gedrosian: 20.74
Siberian: 3.35
Northwest_African: 1.06
Southeast_Asian: 0.83
Atlantic_Med: 9.79
North_European: 8.43
South_Asian: 1.38
East_African 0.29
Southwest_Asian: 11.09
East_Asian: 5.25
Caucasian: 37.33
Sub_Saharan: 0.07

Distance to: Azerbaijani_Northwest
2.87059227 Azerbaijani
3.45446088 Azerbaijani_Turkey
3.86688505 Azerbaijani_Iran
4.42583325 Turk_Southeast
6.16173677 Turk_South
6.38920183 Turk_Central_East
7.11806153 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
7.40380983 Kurd_Kurmanji
7.77724887 Turk_Central_West
8.08899252 Zaza
8.49734664 Iraq_Turkmen
8.57856631 Yazidi
8.82665282 Kurd_Adygea
8.94517188 Talysh_Azerbaijan
9.26475580 Kurd_Sorani
9.59849988 Turk_East
9.65874215 Turk_Southwest
10.07051637 Turk_West_BlackSea
10.27455595 Iran_Central
10.30769130 Udi_Azerbaijan
11.27015971 Iranian
11.33549293 Lur_Iran
11.43364771 Iranian_Fars
11.65627299 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
12.08017798 Iran_Khorasan

Target: Azerbaijani_Northwest
Distance: 1.2135% / 1.21354877 | ADC: 0.25x RC
48.4 Azerbaijani_Turkey
29.1 Yazidi
19.3 Turk_Southwest
2.2 Japanese
1.0 Hazara
01-26-2021, 04:25 PM
Zoro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sterling Archer

No, friend also has ash blond hair(which got a bit darker), blue eyes and is ghastly pale.

More like these yoruks:
https://i.imgur.com/d2oXP0A.png

Ah ok. Just like kurds Azeris have a large range of phenotypes. Some are very Turkmenistan looking others very Russian and Caucasus and still others Turkish and Iranian
01-26-2021, 04:31 PM
Altaylı

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoro

Ah ok. Just like kurds Azeris have a large range of phenotypes. Some are very Turkmenistan looking others very Russian and Caucasus and still others Turkish and Iranian

Kurds dont look Turanid in general. I think Turanid is atypical for kurds
01-26-2021, 04:45 PM
Zoro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altaylı

Kurds dont look Turanid in general. I think Turanid is atypical for kurds

I never said Turanid is the predominant Kurdish phenotype but there’s still a decent amount of kurds with turanid phenotypes and it could be regional. For example i noticed more in Sulemani Iraq. Haven’t been to Turkey so I don’t know how it is among Zazas and other kurds. In Iran it seems to be regional also and i also see some with kurdish youtube vloggers.

Even with my cousins a brother could be turanid, the other slavic, the other Iranic. Thing is 3 brothers can each have 10% E. Asian. One brother’s 10% could be in phenotype genes, the other brother’s 10% can be in non-phenotype genes so only 1 will look turanid
01-26-2021, 04:56 PM
Sterling Archer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp

I think you are overexaggerating the differences a bit. I wouldn't go that far in saying they form a continuum with Avars and Lezgins. Although Lezgin ancestry seems to be present in North of the Republic.

Not just the republic. There are also Derbent and Dagestani Azeris.
I don't think it is exaggeration to be honest. Here are the proximity for Azerbaijanis from Zagata-Balaken region. Average is taken from Azeri-Turkic DNA project:
https://i.imgur.com/JoNzh3R.png
Also, results of the Azeris from Derbent:
https://i.imgur.com/oycD1qO.png

Both groups are rather close to Dagestani people, especially to Tsakhur and less so to Ingush, Kumyk, Lezgin, Chechen.
I think once we have enough samples, Guba(2 results I know are very similar to Dagestani Azeris), Khachmaz and other northern regions will be similar too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp

Also Northwestern Azerbaijanis are not closer to Turks than they are to other Azerbaijanis. The old Yoruk average was fishy and is now deleted it was based on one sample from Adana (Southern Turkey). I have pretty much all results from the Northwest and they are still closer to other Azerbaijanis, just their East Asian is a bit higher. My father has epithantic fold too even I have it a bit.

Point taken. Maybe I mixed it with single result from Kars or Igdir that matched with Turks first, before Azeris. But number do not lie, and averages will be close to Aeris first in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp

My father has epithantic fold too even I have it a bit.

I find it fascinating. That region produces "Asian eyes" paired with blond hair and blue eyes. Almost like Saami.
01-26-2021, 05:11 PM
Kyp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sterling Archer

Not just the republic. There are also Derbent and Dagestani Azeris.
I don't think it is exaggeration to be honest. Here are the proximity for Azerbaijanis from Zagata-Balaken region. Average is taken from Azeri-Turkic DNA project:

Both groups are rather close to Dagestani people, especially to Tsakhur and less so to Ingush, Kumyk, Lezgin, Chechen.
I think once we have enough samples, Guba(2 results I know are very similar to Dagestani Azeris), Khachmaz and other northern regions will be similar too.

Yes in the north they approach Dagestani Azerbaijani results. However they are still far away from Avars.

The average of those cities in the north plots like this:

Distance to: Azerbaijani_North
5.66033568 Azerbaijani
5.68364320 Azerbaijani_Turkey
5.83732816 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
5.88298394 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.67163607 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.70425207 Zaza
7.95960426 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.19094012 Tsakhur_Azerbaijan

Basically between Dagestan Azerbaijanis and regular Azerbaijanis. I don't know maybe in the future they will approach closer to Dagestan Azeris or the opposite will happen. I suspect the average will remain stable. Probably the North_Euro average is somewhere around 13%.

Note: Even Dagestan Azerbaijanis are southern shifted in terms of Dagestan in general.

Quote:

Point taken. Maybe I mixed it with single result from Kars or Igdir that matched with Turks first, before Azeris. But number do not lie, and averages will be close to Aeris first in the end.

Yes I know which result you mean. But this result never got confirmed the person didn't want to reveal the kitnumber. I suspect it wasn't actually an Azerbaijani result. It also wasn't consistent with other results from Kars/Igdir.
01-26-2021, 05:22 PM
Sterling Archer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp

Yes in the north they approach Dagestani Azerbaijani results. However they are still far away from Avars.

Yeah, I just added Avars as a proxy for Dagestani people, didn't mean Avars specifically.
My point was that the different between the N. Azeris and Dagestani people is not large, and that the transition is smooth, which the calculator shows.

Quote:

The average of those cities in the north plots like this:

Distance to: Azerbaijani_North
5.66033568 Azerbaijani
5.68364320 Azerbaijani_Turkey
5.83732816 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
5.88298394 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.67163607 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.70425207 Zaza
7.95960426 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.19094012 Tsakhur_Azerbaijan

Basically between Dagestan Azerbaijanis and regular Azerbaijanis. I don't know maybe in the future they will approach closer to Dagestan Azeris or the opposite will happen. I suspect the average will remain stable. Probably the North_Euro average is somewhere around 13%.

Yeah, we will see. I expect to see more lezgin influence, and if not close Dagestani, then maybe closer to Zagatala. I hope to add my own results, as my test kit just arrived ))
How many samples do you have from these regions?
On a related note, is distance over 5 "good" ?

Quote:

Yes I know which result you mean. But this result never got confirmed the person didn't want to reveal the kitnumber. I suspect it wasn't actually an Azerbaijani result. It also wasn't consistent with other results from Kars/Igdir.

No, I don't mean just that Yoruk result. I saw a result of either Azeri from Turkey or Armenia. He was closer to Turks from eastern Turkey.
01-26-2021, 05:32 PM
Kyp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sterling Archer

Yeah, I just added Avars as a proxy for Dagestani people, didn't mean Avars specifically.
My point was that the different between the N. Azeris and Dagestani people is not large, and that the transition is smooth, which the calculator shows.

Yeah, we will see. I expect to see more lezgin influence, and if not close Dagestani, then maybe closer to Zagatala. I hope to add my own results, as my test kit just arrived ))
How many samples do you have from these regions?
On a related note, is distance over 5 "good" ?

Yes it's quite smooth.

Distance 5 I would call "tolerable" but not great. Since they have distance 5 to both Dagestani Azeris and other Azeris it shows that they are intermediate between these groups.
Cool, looking forward to your result.

Quote:

No, I don't mean just that Yoruk result. I saw a result of either Azeri from Turkey or Armenia. He was closer to Turks from eastern Turkey.

Might be, but let's not put under the rug the vast majority of Azeris from Turkey who are very close to regular Azeris. Also Eastern Turks are quite close to Azerbaijanis in general it doesn't say much.
01-26-2021, 05:58 PM
Sterling Archer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp

Might be, but let's not put under the rug the vast majority of Azeris from Turkey who are very close to regular Azeris. Also Eastern Turks are quite close to Azerbaijanis in general it doesn't say much.

I think there is some misunderstanding. I didn't "put under the rug " the similarity.

I just point out that western Azeris are shifted towards Turkey (western shifted), not that they are not similar to Azeris in general.

In my original post I even said that western Azeris are similar (similar does not equal the closest) to the eastern Turks. I don't see any inconsistency with results you provided. After the Azeris, the western population is most similar to the Eastern Turks.

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