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It is not trolling, but stating the facts. I2a1b-"Din" was brought by Slavonic speakers and is not from the Balkans.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilir
Northeastern Romania at best could be its place of origin but it's not probable, since it expanded from more northeast of Europe.
So many bluepills in this forum.
Labëria bro, I really don't want to be involved in this topic, but Albs like you who are so immature regarding genetics, yet choose to engage in this topic and stick to their theories are really pushing me. There is a lot more data on I2a1-CTS10228 aka Dinaric now then there was just two years ago.
It's not just Sarno et al. 2015, it's also Ferri et al 2010. What do you want, a study that will test every single Albanian. Mind that we now have data from our own project also.
I asked before but since you're here, how come I have over 1K relatives and nobody with this haplo. Is this under any other name?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojet
lol, simple, you can export them in an excel file and sort by alphabetical order. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawing-slim
23andme has that feature itself.
Are you mostly Gheg?Quote:
Originally Posted by Era
3 of the 110 Ghegs in the Albanian bloodlines project get I2a at best. So it's not surprising you are not getting any I2a relatives. :D
I am central Albania gheg so I have many tosk relatives, including Safinator here, 3 segments. And given my large number of relatives it's strange that I dont have any.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër
Well you are not Labs, so you are safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Era
Go under "Family and Friends", "DNA Relatives" and under the search box on top there enter just "I2" - you should have plenty like all of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Era
Just gotta watch out for the maternal I2 since it appears there too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerdilaid
23andMe is using old nomenclatures and doesn't test for seep subclades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Era
However, Go to your 23andMe and look how many relatives you have with Y-DNA I2a2 (international version and uses old nomenclature) or I-M423 (US version).
This is what I have:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerdilaid
Spoiler!
I'm getting approximately 35-40 I2 y-dna samples out of 714 relatives, a few of these could be the northwestern clade and many the non-"Din" clade.
Just one Albo, all greeks and slavs :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojet
Lilaj
Dionis
Bajevic
B
Demir
TALIC
Kiryazov
Graur
Metzak
Melissinas
KALTSAS
Fetzek
Sofios
Gimon
Petrov
Petrov
Hagias
Maniatty
Theodoropoulos
georgaklis
Maniatty
Alexopoulos
Boudouris
Antal
Chrysostomou
Bozovic
Lalioff
Milanovic
Mayor
Mayor
Dzehverovic
Novakovic
Arapakis
Freese
Mayor
Manolov
Stratos
Bimpasis
Hallert
Mitsianis
Ragea
Bookvich
petousis
Greco
Stevanovic
daniel
constantinescu
Tsirkas
Gercek
Triantaris
Kochuk
I'm sure most of those relatives have been influenced by J2b2/EV13/R1b sperm.
I-M423 is DinaricQuote:
Originally Posted by Era
I2a1 isn't Slavic, Southern Slavs just contain a lot of I2a1. Slavic tribal identity formed in a region with pretty much only R1a (unlike Germanic identity, which formed with the hybridisation of I1 and R1b-U106 (primarily at least, so in that respect I1 is Germanic, while I2 is not Slavic)). Anyway, I'm just being picky.
No one is projecting insecurity, when i actually first time checked most of my closest relatives i was looking for j2b1 and that was the only purpose, no need to say that i found none :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Drawing-slim
Now that Era mentioned i checked again, but i rememer as getting really small amount of I2a1b relatives.
Not a big deal tho : D just playing little with statistics, i would love if you were one of my relatives since i already have 3 Albos from TA.
Yes, basically. I get Kurt and two other Albanians, the rest are all South Slavs and Greeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Era
It was brought to the Balkans by Slavic-speakers 1400 years ago, no "I2a1b-Din" diversity in the Balkans whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe
I knew it,lol theres just no way you didnt have a single I2a out of 1300 relatives being from the balkans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Era
These renowned sources are wrong, see the extra info I added to my comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër
Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerdilaid
I am related to only one Albanian(a Kosovar) out of all these people on there.
But I still can't quite figure out how to search for those I2 on DNA tools. Can see them on Gedmatch, and they are all only Anglos etc...
yeah weird mine too. of the ones i found manually at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër
Enough proof it didn't exist in the Balkans prior to the Slavic migrations.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe
Everything else is just bluepill mental masturbation by haplotards.
Really, what did then - you do realise haplogroup I is pretty much the only indigenous European haplogroup right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër
You are new to DNA-testing it seems.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe
Check the deep clades, tmrca, read the thread or stfu, I2a1b-Din formed outside the Balkans and has the highest variety across the Vistula(between Poland, Belarus, Ukraine).
When you go to DNA relatives, there's a feature in the end, Download aggregated data. Click on that and you'll have an excel file. Then you can sort by ydna.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis
I never said it formed in the Balkans, I just said it was indigenous European - my guess would be I2a1 was driven to the Balkans by Indo-European invasions until they hit the Adriatic Sea, at which point they mixed with the mostly R1a invaders. Show me evidence proto-Slavs contained a non-insignificant amount of Y DNA I2a1 - then I'll stfu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër
Even the haplotard site Eupedia says the same about I2a1b-Din:Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe
of I2a-L621, while southern Slavs have between 20% (Bulgaria) and 50% (Bosnia). The higher percentage of I2a-Din in the south is probably just due to another founder effect due to the fact that the South Slavs originated in western Ukraine, where the ratio of I2a to R1a was higher. Virtually all Dinaric I2a falls under the CTS10228 (aka CTS5966 or L147.2) subclade, and the majority to the S17250 ramification, who descend from a common patrilinear ancestor who lived only 1,800 years ago.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml
It's not that simple. Check my previous post.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe
Indo-Europeans integrated other haplogroups in them in Europe. The I2a1b-Din is new in the Balkans, no older sample found.
Read my most recent comment - also, South Slav tribal formation is clearly to do with the branch of Slavs that essentially chased down I2a.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër
HaHa i am actually really good camouflaged there, you can barley see that there is j2b1 among so many j2b2 :D I Bet no one even notices that! > : )
Dude, I never said it was indigenous to the Balkans, just that it was to Europe. R1a is not. Slavic tribal identity is, but not originally with I2a1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër
In 600AD tons of Slavs of Northeastern Europe already had plenty of diversified I2a1b clades. Only the I2a1b-Din one reached the Balkans 1400 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe
Fucking idiot, Slavs are a combination of I2a1b and R1a cultures. Possibly some more minor influences from later stages. You are talking of 4000+ years ago when no I2a1b sample has been found in the Balkans whatsoever.
Due to S. Slav migrations that now contained a large amount of I2a1, sure, but obviously proto-Slavic identity predates S. Slav identity. If I2a1 is Slavic, explain it's high concentration in Sardinia?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër
It's another clade, which split atleast 10 000 years ago, way before Slavs existed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe
According to Eupedia I2 seem to be Slavic haplogroup after all:Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe
The high concentration of I2a1b-L621 in north-east Romania, Moldova and central Ukraine reminds of the maximum spread of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture (4800-3000 BCE). No Y-DNA sample from this culture has been tested to date, but as it evolved as an offshoot from the Starčevo–Kőrös–Criş culture, it is likely that I2a was one of its main paternal lineages, and a founder effect could have increased considerably its frequency. The Cucuteni-Trypillian culture was the most advanced Neolithic culture in Europe before the Indo-European invasions in the Bronze Age and seems to have had intensive contacts with the Steppe culture before the expansion of Yamna to the Balkans and Central Europe (see histories of R1a and R1b). From 3500 BCE, at the onset of the Yamna period in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, the Cucuteni-Trypillian people started expanding east into the steppe of what is now western Ukraine, leaving their towns (the largest in the world at the time), and adopting an increasingly nomadic lifestyle like their Yamna neighbours. It can easily be imagined that Cucuteni-Trypillian people became assimilated by the Yamna neighbours and that they spread as a minority lineage alongside haplogroups R1a and R1b as they advanced toward the Baltic with the Corded Ware expansion. Alternatively, I2-L621 lineages could have lived in relative isolation from the mainstream Proto-Indo-European society somewhere around Ukraine, Poland or Belarus, then as the centuries and millennia passed, would have blended with the predominantly R1a populations around them. The resulting amalgam would have become the ancestors of the Proto-Slavs.
The I2a1b-L147.2 subclade seems to have expanded very fast from 1900 years ago, which is concordant with the timing of the Slavic ethnogenesis, considering that it takes a few centuries before one man can have enough male descendants to start having an impact at the scale of a (small but fast-growing) population.
Nowadays northern Slavic countries have between 9% (Poland, Czech republic) and 21% (Ukraine) of I2a-L621, while southern Slavs have between 20% (Bulgaria) and 50% (Bosnia). The higher percentage of I2a-Din in the south is probably just due to another founder effect due to the fact that the South Slavs originated in western Ukraine, where the ratio of I2a to R1a was higher. Virtually all Dinaric I2a falls under the CTS10228 (aka CTS5966 or L147.2) subclade, and the majority to the S17250 ramification, who descend from a common patrilinear ancestor who lived only 1,800 years ago.
IDK for credible is this, but sound fairly decent explanation.
This is the map i made with all the samples i had, more than 50.
I didn't tag names since it would have been a clusterfuck but as a general tendency southerners cluster more south and the most northern shifting as i said before are Albanians from Montegro.
Regarding the map, the most:
NORTHERN : Albanian from Kosovo
WESTERN: Albanian from Montenegro
EASTERN : Albanian from Macedonia
SOUTHERN: Albanian from the south
http://i.imgur.com/AtvElmW.png
Plus the fact that modern Albanians plot right at Bronze Age Montenegrin sample, explains that I2a1b & R1a high baltic & eastern euro admixtures were never there before.
How its possible that on map Macedonia is displayed to have less I2a1b then S Albania???