Alright, we will follow this logic. What about the names Vajk, Géza, Sarolt, Emese, Csaba, Koppány, Bendegúz, etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel von Rethelsky
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Alright, we will follow this logic. What about the names Vajk, Géza, Sarolt, Emese, Csaba, Koppány, Bendegúz, etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel von Rethelsky
Do you think they all were wiped out? :picard1:Quote:
Originally Posted by blogen
Btw, man, you didn;t understand.
I didn;t say he was a Scyth - the more true one - can you get it?
Now you are turning this, where were Scythians in the
Middle Ages. For what? To make a artificial problem?
You do not know, as he supposedly lived in pre-historic times, whenQuote:
Levente's name was never Slavonic. His name is a Hungarian name. The Hungarian name is Slavonic origin, but Levente was not Louanta.
Hugarians were somewhere on the East, and possible mixed some Slavs.
It depends what role they play and in which times they appieard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
I did not say that foreing forname means always a foreign people.
So there is no sense to showing this list, the more, that some seems
to be a surnames and cognomic names.
Not necessary... really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel von Rethelsky
:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
Read the context. :bored:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic
Why the sad face?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
He won't change his opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
Because? It is not an issue regardless. It's just entertaining; he could use some support with his comfort levels regarding his own background. I'm sure you are keeping up with our dialogue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Yes it interesting to read :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
Your interpretation of the Árpád dna results? Thoughts on the downstream possibilities?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Do you want to provoke great fights between her and Stears for years? :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
I provoke nothing lol. It's a question everyone is asking to one another. Whatever she and Stears do or talk about is none of my concern or even my business.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel von Rethelsky
Possible Turkic ancestry, if Z93. If Z280, than more Finno-Ugric.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
Slavic ? No
He isn't so close minded as you imagine at all :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel von Rethelsky
I know it is a guess, but do you think they will ever bother releasing the information about the downstream?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
How about your thoughts on the origins of the names on the previous pages?
I assume you are talking about Stears; he's fine. He just speaks from a new position as his DNA tests arrive and he uses more autosomal calculators and more Magyar DNA is researched in general. As the science progresses so will his views on his heritage. He will have you to help him with this as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Is that true that Szekelys are the purest Hungarians, and their results are the closest to Steppes ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
Everybody know this, because the vovels in the Levente are all high, while the in the Slavonic form are low or mixed. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rethel von Rethelsky
The vovelharmony in the Hungarian language created the Hungarian Λεβεδίαρ name.
Possible Magyar ancestry in this context. These were Ugric or Iranic markers at this time. Turkic markers today only, after the great scale Turkification of the steppe!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
No. Székelys are average Hungarians. They were the descendants of the pagan free warrior caste (várjobbágy in the early christian state).Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic
You should becareful with claiming it as TurkicQuote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
Just like you can't claim a Negro with R1b as West European pride
http://legacy.joshuaproject.net/prof...tos/p10166.jpg
Pazyryk culture ( R1a, N1b )
" Craniological studies of samples from the Pazyryk burials revealed the presence of both Mongoloid and Caucasoid components in this population.[6] quoting G. F. Debets on the physical characteristics of the population in the Pazyryk kurgans, records a mixed population. The men would seem to be part Mongoloid and the women Europoid.[7] "
Anayino culture
Sculptural reconstruction of men Lugovskyi burial
Ananyino culture. Gypsum. MMGerasimov work.
" Reconstruction of the mounds number 5, 6 show burial Stone Barn in racial make women Ural type men - striking features of Central Asian Mongoloid."
MALE : R1a
FEMALE: H1a
http://www.imageup.ru/img195/1641901/tyurk1.jpg
http://www.imageup.ru/img195/1641909/f-u1.jpg[
Who cares what branch of Eurasian Z93 he belonged to. Only thing most important to me is how they really looked like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
It's not like if a Indian man's R1a Eurasian Z93 who mated Black women mtDNA L producing sons and grandsons looking like typical negroes means there is great deal of racial pride Eurasian Z93 branch.
First of all the concept of "pure Hungarian" genetically is challenging to define at all because of the mixing even the conquering Magyars did with Ugrics, Slavs, Germanics, and other Turkic peoples during their movement west. The only argument I think can be "general phenotypes" that they had. There were no dark African Magyars or 100% east Asian Magyars during the entry into Europe, so the Turanid phenotypes were the most common ones, West Eurasian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic
Second, there is great debate on the origins of the Székely people. The common consensus is that they are Turkic peoples (even the Wikipedia link Stears likes to quote states this), but when they arrived is the issue. Some say they are the remnants of Huns in the Carpathian that joined the Magyars during the conquest. Some say they are a Magyarized Turkic tribe that the Magyars placed to guard the border.
See post number 7 in this thread for my highlights from the source:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...iors-in-Europe
You can also see some of Stears' incomplete opinion above and more Turkic evidence posted below.
Original West European.Quote:
Originally Posted by ButlerKing
p.s.
I see, that with every appearance you are coming with more
weird theses. It is sad, as you started some time ago well...
R1a and R1b are Eurasian in origin. I have no idea why you bring up phenotypes and Y DNA in this scenario. I am not a "white supremacist" and don't care about these African examples you are showing when their Y DNA is from Africa downstream but had Eurasian roots, perhaps before Africanization of the migrants thousands and thousands of years ago. Each African people have their own ethnogenesis and it is up to them to decide who contributed significantly enough to be included in their ethnic identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by ButlerKing
Again this has nothing to do with the topic. We weren't even considered defacto "white" until the early middle of the 20th century. Hell, the Meyers ethnographic chart has the Ottomans as more "Caucasian" than us. But now that we're this great "bastion of Europe" in the eyes of some once more, I'm supposed to care about being white or something? Where was that European care during Trianon? Where was that thanks for those years during the Ottoman invasion or during our revolutions for freedom from Hapsburg oppression or communist hell?Quote:
Originally Posted by ButlerKing
He looks like a typical South Indian Veddoid :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rethel von Rethelsky
http://worlddocumentaryphotographer....s-together.jpg
Between whom? Beceause the scientific community of the Hungarian historians not supported the foreign origin Székely-theory. They were average Magyars, their social status was the source of their Székely identity. Because there is not any evidence their different ethnical origin. Every early Székely related evidence is connected to the Magyar language and the Magyar society.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
Pre-resettlement age Székely related toponyms:
https://i.img.ie/3q2.jpg
toponym from the székely name, toponym from the lövő name, place with writtend evidence of the Székely population.
See the links posted in the thread I linked to and I will also post more sources for you later. I am not saying they are not Magyars; they are and they are proud. They have mixed with us through the ages as well, so we are truly one. The debate is how separate they were in fact during the land taking and how they have gotten their unique origins as Magyars.Quote:
Originally Posted by blogen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
Because they came from Central Asia not from Europe, North Africa, Middle east BUT CENTRAL ASIANS. If it's from Central Asia that means there's always a huge risk of any Central origin haplogroup being heavily hybrisized with Mongoloid. I find it stupid when people get excited of the fact he is R1a or R1b, if he was from England with no central Asian connection than no one should give a crap but since Hungarians claim close relations with central asians, it's a totally different story.
Cambodians also have western eurasian haplogroups such mtDNA U, H and Y-DNA R1a but all of these are absolutely related with South Asian or Indian population. There were not European or middle eastern looking people that spread these to Cambodia.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ze9Lg_t4lb...7043356490.jpg
How much?Quote:
Originally Posted by ButlerKing
Not a lot but it's ussually mainly from Southern Cambodia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel von Rethelsky
2.5% West Eurasian haplogroup with 4.5% South Asian mtDNA like mtDNA M2
R1a is 7.5%
South Asian mtDNA map
http://i60.tinypic.com/r0o2v6.png
What is their unique origin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
Then I have no idea the point you are trying to make and you need to clarify. This idea of "Asian" meaning 100% East Asian is poisoning your brain like most in the Anglosphere when the term is far larger and contains dozens and dozens of phenotypes. This "Mongoloid fear" is rediculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by ButlerKing
Mt?Quote:
Originally Posted by ButlerKing
Quite much. And how much R1b and R2?Quote:
R1a is 7.5%
That is the debate. Just like the Kabars joined us and of course are now Magyars, the question is if the Székely people were a fellow Turkic tribe as well or (and this seems more legend) if they were the settled Huns who joined us during the conquest. I have heard some theories about them being Avar remnants or Avar mixed as well. As I've said my friend, I will gain more links for you that are not only wikipedia parroting garbage, haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by blogen
It means that the Hungarian male Arpad founder with R1a could also just be Mongoloid, doesn't matter how east Asian he is genetically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
African Americans are not 100% negroid either, and they many western eurasian haplogroups and they speak indo-european language but it doesn't mean the same crap as the caucasoids from europe, middle east, south asia.
Have you ever read the anthropology results from the conquering Magyar graves? The shift is "Europoid" with occasional "Mongoloid influence" which can be interpreted in different ways. Even the mtDNA of the Cumans was predominantly West Eurasian. I feel like it is very safe to say that the Árpád line has the West Turanid/Alföld look.Quote:
Originally Posted by ButlerKing
Again though I don't care about these African examples. The African Americans don't even look very African; I see Nigerian tourists in Budapest and they are much darker. The African Americans in general seem to have lighter skin, some far lighter, and can have wavy hair and more rarely, colorful eyes that are not dark brown. Most of them seem to have a West African face and head shape though.
Using your own Hungarian data.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turul Karom
Google translation Hungarian to English
Magyar történelem anekdötákban
Dante Könyvkiadó, 1943 - Hungary - 351 pages
https://books.google.co.uk/books/con...6WqRMmtQid1VI8
Ez volt utolsó kalandozó hadjáratuk. Az anekdota kétségtelenül a zömöktermetű magyart, vagyis a magyar mongoloid kiskőzéptermetűségét kívánja glo- tifikálni íigy, mint ezt a Szent István Királyúr kistermelüségé- ről szóló anekdotákban látjuk. A kistermetű magyarról és a nagytermetű idegenről szóló, számos korai magyar középkori adoma kétségtelenül annak az emléke, hogy a 13 — 14. században még igen feltűnd lehetett a mongoloid kistermetűség és az északi szláv és germán
" This was their last adventurous campaign. The anecdote undoubtedly wants to gloat the small-scale Hungarian, that is, the Hungarian mongoloid's small-scale commodity, as we see in the anecdotes about the smallness of St. Stephen's Little Ones. The many Hungarian medieval adventures of the small Hungarian and the great alien are undoubtedly the remembrance of the fact that in the 13th and 14th centuries the Mongolian minorities and Northern Slavic and Germanic "
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/hungarians.html
" B. Csányi, E. Bogácsi-Szabó, Gy. Tömöry, Á. Czibula, K. Priskin, A. Csősz, B. Mende, P. Langó, K. Csete, A. Zsolnai, E. K. Conant, C. S. Downes, and I. Raskó. "Y-Chromosome Analysis of Ancient Hungarian and Two Modern Hungarian-Speaking Populations from the Carpathian Basin." Annals of Human Genetics 72:4 (July 2008): pages 519-534. 100 Hungarian people from Hungary and 97 Hungarian-speaking Szekler people from Transylvania in present-day Romania were genetically tested. DNA was also successfully sampled from the skeletons of 4 Hungarians who lived in the 10th century. Two of the skeletons that were anthropologically Caucasoid-Mongoloid hybrids carried the Y-DNA haplogroup N3 (later ramed N1c) while one of them carried the Caucasoid mtDNA haplogroup H. This, along with the evidence from modern-day Hungarians, shows that the Magyar invaders had intermarried with local European tribes, greatly watering down Mongoloid genetic and physical traits among those who continued to speak the Hungarian language. "
Yes mtDNA UQuote:
Originally Posted by Rethel von Rethelsky
R2 sometimes appears 0% sometimes 2%. No Cambodians have R1b.Quote:
Quite much. And how much R1b and R2?
So up to 10%.Quote:
Originally Posted by ButlerKing
Idk where did you get this, but if it would be
true, such information would be easly to find,
crying from the google to be find. It doesn't.
Years ago, I found information,
that all R is 5% at best in Cambodia.
You are taking things far out of context. The adventures of the early Magyars are surrounded with both fact and legend. You are also quoting out of data sources that are no longer the standard for judging Hungarian composition. It would be OK if you quoted old data that was still supported by more modern science, but did you read the links I have posted far earlier in the thread? Firstly, the small Magyars were not all small but symbolic, and the most accurate way I can explain the actual "small" Magyars is to compare it with the sort of "David and Goliath" or "underdog" lore the West is so fond of... see here and watch closely...Quote:
Originally Posted by ButlerKing
https://youtu.be/1evLPnc8oC0
Second, read the various earlier links where far more samples than four were taken and how they define their terms far better than just "Mongoloid". Each year more and more Magyar conquest era graves are studied and we learn more about our Turkic past.