you should take charge of the Croatian averages. i can send you the excel database if you don't have it already.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroLP
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you should take charge of the Croatian averages. i can send you the excel database if you don't have it already.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroLP
Old-current averages:
Croat_Bosnia&Herzegovina,25.53,32.41,15.86,8.50,13 .91,1.38,0.59,0.25,0.56,0.46,0.35,0.04,0.11
Croat_East,27.42,34.37,13.89,8.65,11.79,1.56,0.03, 0.14,1.16,0.62,0.35,0.02,0.01
Croat_Littoral,26.81,32.09,15.78,8.11,13.54,1.40,0 .33,0.24,0.56,0.49,0.39,0.13,0.11
Croat_north,31.28,33.43,14.32,7.22,9.91,1.18,0.61, 0.31,0.54,0.59,0.35,0.13,0.13
Croat,28.38,33.18,14.95,7.74,11.78,1.42,0.50,0.26, 0.56,0.53,0.45,0.10,0.13
Target Distance
Celto-Germanic * Early_Slavic * Paleo-Balkan
Croat_Bosnia&Herzegovina 3.26957000
2.4 59.6 38.0
Croat_East 4.02479049
9.2 62.4 28.4
Croat_Littoral 3.04843174
8.8 55.6 35.6
Croat_north 2.64516202
29.6 49.6 20.8
Croat 2.91855975
15.6 55.6 28.8
Target Distance
Early_Germanic * Early_Romanian/Balkanite * Early_Slav * Turkic/Tatar/Cuman
Croat_Bosnia&Herzegovina 1.87855946
0.0 37.2 62.8 0.0
Croat_East 1.78925076
4.0 27.8 67.8 0.4
Croat_Littoral 1.74738445
4.0 35.4 60.6 0.0
Croat_north 1.23510997
19.0 21.0 60.0 0.0
Croat 1.39805745
8.8 28.6 62.6 0.0
Target Distance
Alan * Germanic * Slavic * Vlach
Croat_Bosnia&Herzegovina 0.94454570
0.0 0.0 63.6 36.4
Croat_East 0.96181556
0.8 6.4 62.4 30.4
Croat_Littoral 0.94099799
0.0 2.2 60.4 37.4
Croat_north 0.50504371
0.0 16.6 57.8 25.6
Croat 0.62036817
0.0 6.4 61.6 32.0
New averages:
Croat_South,26.36,31.83,15.92,8.38,13.60,1.47,0.50 ,0.28,0.56,0.47,0.37,0.12,0.11
Croat_West,28.53,31.60,15.24,7.61,13.31,1.38,0.61, 0.38,0.36,0.38,0.40,0.13,0.07
Croat_East,26.84,34.60,14.13,8.26,12.31,1.43,0.22, 0.12,1.08,0.68,0.30,0.01,0.01
Croat_North,30.06,34.35,14.42,7.05,10.10,1.33,0.54 ,0.31,0.52,0.61,0.40,0.16,0.14
Croat,28.10,33.15,15.02,7.76,12.05,1.40,0.49,0.28, 0.59,0.54,0.38,0.12,0.10
Target Distance
Celto-Germanic * Early_Slavic * Paleo-Balkan
Croat_South 3.08782206
7.2 55.8 37.0
Croat_West 3.35202711
17.6 49.8 32.6
Croat_East 3.73943514
6.0 64.2 29.8
Croat_North 2.46731102
22.8 55.4 21.8
Croat 2.94054025
14.4 56.0 29.6
Target Distance
Early_Germanic * Early_Romanian/Balkanite * Early_Slav * Turkic/Tatar/Cuman
Croat_South 1.60360039
3.0 36.6 60.4 0.0
Croat_West 2.06799915
10.8 32.8 56.4 0.0
Croat_East 1.86758502
1.6 29.0 69.4 0.0
Croat_North 1.32915743
13.6 21.6 64.8 0.0
Croat 1.46059668
7.8 29.4 62.8 0.0
Target Distance
Germanic * Slavic * Vlach
Croat_South 0.74532767
1.6 60.8 37.6
Croat_West 0.97461719
7.6 54.8 37.6
Croat_East 0.89321452
3.8 65.0 31.2
Croat_North 0.48422179
10.0 63.8 26.2
Croat 0.65275339
6.0 61.4 32.6
First as far as ADMIXTURE is concerned, the first with three ancestral populations is not good enough because it has a much greater distance than the others and its "Celto-Germanic" share is unrealistically high and even too high (impossible as "North" is 23-30%, etc.), while the second with four and Stearsolina’s last with modern ancestral populations seem pretty good to use.
As can be seen, the new supraregional and national averages have identical or very similar and meaningful percentages of K13 components (eg Croatian national averages are almost identical, but the newer one is a bit more realistic; "South" and "West" have the same Baltic, but "West" has a larger NA; "South" and "East" have the same NA, but "East" has a larger Baltic; "North" is expectedly most northern-shifted), have lower distances (eg "South" agreed very well, "North" also, etc.), seem more realistic considering the shares of ancestral components (eg Croatian national average should be around 30-35% Old Balkan, but not lower than that; "North" realistically should be lower than 20% Germanic; "West" realistically second as far as NA is concerned due to Germanic and Italian influence; all around 30-35% Old Balkan except "North" which is around 21-26% but should not be lower than 20%).
Vbnetkhio, Lucas, Peterski etc. are welcome to make PCA to see how it looks like.
Fantastic work Moro!!! It was great idea to give average making to you. Thanks to Vbnethkio as well for helping you with database and old censuses. Looks neat :thumbsup:
PCA using Vahaduo Custom PCA:
Attachment 104539
Seeing how were made the current Serbian averages (link), and based on the regionalization reasoning used in Croatian averages, Vbnetkhio can you make another four Serbian regional averages using the weighting methods:
1) "West" - including samples from Croatia and Western Bosnia
2) "Central" - including samples from Eastern Bosnia and Herzegovina and the central part of Serbia
3) "North" - including samples from Vojvodina (+Eastern Slavonia?)
4) "South" - including samples from Southeastern Serbia and Kosovo
First is representing those Serbs who migrated westward and lived in close proximity to Croats for several centuries. The second is basically the core of the medieval Serbian state. The third has a complex history, and the fourth is self-explanatory. It would be informative to compare them to current Serbian averages and others.
You can check out the previous version of the averages:Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroLP
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post6926961
But they don't depict the genetics of these regions accurately. I made that division back when I knew less about genetics than I do now. Just take them as rough approximations.
That's why I made the new version, it's the best which can be extracted from the current data.
Looking at the database, we are lacking samples from central and eastern Istria to make a balance with the western coast; we especially lack samples from Kvarner because of which the Istria&Kvarner regional average is mostly based on (western coast) Istria which is pulling it more southern due to new western samples in comparison to older average which had a slightly higher Baltic; and samples from eastern Croatia of course. Other regions look fine for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Is this the thread to dump results from Croatia?
From Buzet, Istarska
North_Atlantic 24.41 Pct Baltic 28.37 Pct West_Med 20.9 Pct West_Asian 10.52 Pct East_Med 10.83 Pct Red_Sea - South_Asian 3.37 Pct East_Asian - Siberian 1.09 Pct Amerindian 0.19 Pct Oceanian 0.32 Pct Northeast_African - Sub-Saharan -
1/2 Buzet (relative to the one above), 1/2 Karlovac, Karlovacka
North_Atlantic 26.3 Pct Baltic 32.77 Pct West_Med 17.33 Pct West_Asian 8.58 Pct East_Med 9.84 Pct Red_Sea 1.89 Pct South_Asian 0.83 Pct East_Asian - Siberian 1.07 Pct Amerindian 0.08 Pct Oceanian 1.31 Pct Northeast_African - Sub-Saharan -
1/2 Zadarska, 1/2 Primorsko-Goranska
North_Atlantic 29.36 Pct Baltic 25.45 Pct West_Med 15.66 Pct West_Asian 6.34 Pct East_Med 20.09 Pct Red_Sea 1.01 Pct South_Asian - East_Asian - Siberian 1.52 Pct Amerindian - Oceanian 0.58 Pct Northeast_African - Sub-Saharan -
1/2 Uzice, Serbia, 1/4 Zadarska, 1/4 Splitsko-Dalmatinska
North_Atlantic 30.29 Pct Baltic 27.71 Pct West_Med 14.61 Pct West_Asian 7.01 Pct East_Med 16.99 Pct Red_Sea 1.72 Pct South_Asian - East_Asian - Siberian 1.3 Pct Amerindian - Oceanian 0.36 Pct Northeast_African - Sub-Saharan -
Zadarska
North_Atlantic 29.89 Pct Baltic 31.61 Pct West_Med 18.81 Pct West_Asian 8.21 Pct East_Med 9.33 Pct Red_Sea - South_Asian - East_Asian 1.11 Pct Siberian 1.03 Pct Amerindian - Oceanian - Northeast_African - Sub-Saharan -
Gotta love the Mongoloid in those Croats :swl
1/2 Licko-Senjska, 1/4 Primorsko-Goranska, 1/4 Zadarska
North_Atlantic 28.58 Pct Baltic 30.88 Pct West_Med 16.55 Pct West_Asian 9.03 Pct East_Med 10.76 Pct Red_Sea 1.54 Pct South_Asian 0.1 Pct East_Asian 1.12 Pct Siberian 0.45 Pct Amerindian - Oceanian 0.09 Pct Northeast_African 0.92 Pct Sub-Saharan -
Yeah, they need to roll their sleeves and start working to reach our level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
1/2 Primorsko-Goranska, 1/2 Splitsko-Dalmatinska
North_Atlantic 28.59 Pct Baltic 29.11 Pct West_Med 17.88 Pct West_Asian 8.9 Pct East_Med 11.54 Pct Red_Sea 2.35 Pct South_Asian - East_Asian - Siberian 0.73 Pct Amerindian - Oceanian 0.86 Pct Northeast_African - Sub-Saharan -
1/2 Kolasin, Montenegro, 1/4 Sibensko-Kiniska, 1/4 Licko-Senjska
North_Atlantic 22.83 Pct Baltic 27.77 Pct West_Med 19.29 Pct West_Asian 5.47 Pct East_Med 21.99 Pct Red_Sea - South_Asian - East_Asian - Siberian 0.8 Pct Amerindian 0.96 Pct Oceanian 0.89 Pct Northeast_African - Sub-Saharan -
Licko-Senjska
North_Atlantic 19.09 Pct Baltic 34.15 Pct West_Med 16.85 Pct West_Asian 9.42 Pct East_Med 17.77 Pct Red_Sea 0.97 Pct South_Asian - East_Asian 0.34 Pct Siberian - Amerindian 1.25 Pct Oceanian - Northeast_African 0.14 Pct Sub-Saharan -
1/2 Croat Slovenian from Primorsko-Goranska (parents born in Gabrje and Ajdovscina Slovenia, but buried in Primorsko-Goranska), 1/2 Croat Italian from Primorsko-Goranska (born in Friuli-Venezia Giulia)
North_Atlantic 30.49 Pct Baltic 30.87 Pct West_Med 14.52 Pct West_Asian 9.96 Pct East_Med 9.72 Pct Red_Sea 2.8 Pct South_Asian 0.73 Pct East_Asian - Siberian - Amerindian - Oceanian 0.47 Pct Northeast_African 0.42 Pct Sub-Saharan -
That's it from me.
That's a Serb. Having results from Croatia is meaningless if they aren't ethnic Croats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post6900373
I don't think you can separate Croatian from Serb names, therefore all results you posted need to be checked. One looks partly Gypsy by the way, and in region where Gypsies don't exist.
It seems that Croatia is very mixed if I always stumble on Serbs. Isn't this how knez scores more or less?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
This is half Montenegro half Krajina SerbQuote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
Medak is Serb village in Lika.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
According to national census of 2011, population of the settlement is 62.[1] This represents 11.01% of its pre-war population according to the 1991 census.
The 1991 census[2] recorded that 94.32% of the village population were ethnic Serbs (531/563), 0.71% were Croats (4/563), 0.53% were Yugoslavs (3/563) while 4.44% were of other ethnic origin (25/563).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medak,_Croatia
Very mixed? Croatia is one of most homogenous countries in Europe. But Serbs are very overtested compared to Croats and obviously lot of Serbs now residing in Serbia like Dušan or Varda come from Croatia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
Yes it's similar to his results, but this person is a Serb and since all of your results are very southern compared to average I doubt they are all unmixed Croats. But idk, Moro can check them.
You should check ethnic structure of place of birth and origin of these people you find.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
Knez said he has some Italian ancestors that shift him south.
Ayetooye's father is from Croatia, doesn't he score just like Southern Croats? Remember the idea of being a religious tribe (a certain Doctor came up with that brilliant idea :cool:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
He's a Serb from Croatia(Dalmatia) and scores like typical Serb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
So you treat 'em as aliens even if they're natives who happen to have a different religion. I bet outside of TA his father will be never singled out as a Serb in his home area. Looks the same, speaks the same. Like in Belarus we have Roman Catholics and Orthodox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Not just religion, but dialect is different, as well as genetics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Mind your own business and stop mingling Serbs and Croats.
Okay but one question - the dialect is different even INSIDE Croatia? I can hardly imagine that, especially in this day and age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Ethnic mapQuote:
Originally Posted by Leto
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...artaSFRJMZ.jpg
Dialect map
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...alects.svg.png
Serbs of Bosnia and Croatia speak the same dialect as western Serbia and western Montenegro, and different than surrounding Croats, and party Bosnian Muslims.
Well, I assume the difference is rather trivial. Most languages have dialects, sometimes widely divergent. Their speakers don't have to belong to separate nations. Pre-globalization Europe was full of countless dialects and regional idioms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Serbs of western Serbia, east Bosnia and western Montenegro are new-shtokavian iyekavians, and most of Serbs from western Bosnia and Croatia are new-shtokavian yekavians (this dialect most likely originated around Neretva river).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Whats your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Croats are Serbs, or Serbs are Croats? You want new country-union as Yugoslavia and that will lead to we start killing each other over and over again?
Croats and Serbs are two different people, deal with it.
No, I don't want that of course. But some believe the difference is mostly cultural/political. I personally met a Serb who told me we are the same blood, they're (Croats/Bosniaks) just cave people because of their bad beliefs and actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
I apologize, I wouldn't have bumped this myself, Ion Basescul started posting some results which other users found doubtful. Also Balkan genetics is a staple topic in this section, I'm used to reading about it.
Send me the kits except #252 because already have. Yeah, some of these probably are not Croats although exceptions are possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
Please don't share publicly private GED family trees, only in private messages.
Jovan?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
This person is obviously Serb. Don't post if you have no idea what you are posting.
Similar, sometimes very similar depending on the region but look at #244 PCA. Speaking of Yugoslavia, of course, North Macedonians are not shown because are very southern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Dušan has a point. Yugoslavia was a forced creation built on the propaganda that exaggerated similarities and downplayed all our differences. And the prolonged existence of that state led to all the conflicts, massacres and genocides that ocurred here in the 20th century.
Vbnetkhio has them all, he discovered the gedcom and shared it with me a long time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroLP