Serbian autosomal DNA #2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

I think this account belongs to Serb from Croatia, hence hr in mail-address. Kit I checked gets Serbian matches. You can check them in user lookup by typing this:

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It is obviously milosh r
sh = š

No sane Serb will add "hr" next to his name.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dušan

It is obviously milosh r
sh = š

No sane Serb will add "hr" next to his name.

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Ok xD
Some type of Serb anyway.

Must be a Serb (female). An equal amount of Baltic and North Atlantic

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 27.97
2 Baltic 27.35
3 East_Med 17.89
4 West_Med 17.07
5 West_Asian 7.49
6 East_Asian 0.77
7 Amerindian 0.66
8 Oceanian 0.52
9 Northeast_African 0.29

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 3.87
2 Romanian 5.69
3 Bulgarian 7.74
4 Hungarian 9.52
5 Moldavian 9.65
6 Croatian 10.99
7 Austrian 12.09
8 East_German 13.79
9 Greek_Thessaly 15.32
10 West_German 16.2
11 North_Italian 16.4
12 French 17.24
13 South_Polish 17.5
14 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.56
15 South_Dutch 17.79
16 Tuscan 18.02
17 Ukrainian 18.44
18 Portuguese 19.56
19 Spanish_Galicia 20.11
20 Spanish_Cataluna 20.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55% Tuscan + 45% Southwest_Russian @ 3.44
2 50.6% Tuscan + 49.4% Ukrainian @ 3.5
3 55.9% South_Polish + 44.1% West_Sicilian @ 3.57
4 66% Bulgarian + 34% East_German @ 3.57
5 57.7% Tuscan + 42.3% Belorussian @ 3.58
6 93.7% Serbian + 6.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.59
7 62% Tuscan + 38% Lithuanian @ 3.59
8 55.5% Tuscan + 44.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.61
9 50.8% South_Polish + 49.2% Tuscan @ 3.61
10 96.6% Serbian + 3.4% Sardinian @ 3.61
11 92.5% Serbian + 7.5% North_Italian @ 3.65
12 94.2% Serbian + 5.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.67
13 94.8% Serbian + 5.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.69
14 57.3% Tuscan + 42.7% Estonian_Polish @ 3.69
15 95.2% Serbian + 4.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.69
16 62.9% Bulgarian + 37.1% Austrian @ 3.69
17 95.7% Serbian + 4.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.7
18 95.4% Serbian + 4.6% Southwest_French @ 3.71
19 94.7% Serbian + 5.3% Portuguese @ 3.71
20 95.2% Serbian + 4.8% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.72

Was I added to the list of serbian samples to make some average?
I posted my K13 and K15 in late august/early september. Now I also have G25.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nausevar

Was I added to the list of serbian samples to make some average?
I posted my K13 and K15 in late august/early september. Now I also have G25.

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Serbs from Dalmatia, 15 samples:

Code:

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Serb_Dalmatia,25.69,28.77,16.89,9.22,15.58,1.30,0.60,0.31,0.63,0.45,0.41,0.10,0.06

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

Serbs from Dalmatia, 15 samples:

Code:

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Serb_Dalmatia,25.69,28.77,16.89,9.22,15.58,1.30,0.60,0.31,0.63,0.45,0.41,0.10,0.06

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Ok, thanks.
Is it better and/or easier to make a PCA with PAST or with R?
Because I'm trying to make a G25 PCA but it's complicated and it's difficult to add and remove rows, I don't know how to zoom in and so on.
I would like to have a PCA with modern averages (possibly some regional averages for our areas) and position myself, like with the famous K15 map.
I dislike big dispersive maps like the vahaduo one, I prefer a simple map with big squares/dots and names, easy to look at.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nausevar

Ok, thanks.
Is it better and/or easier to make a PCA with PAST or with R?
Because I'm trying to make a G25 PCA but it's complicated and it's difficult to add and remove rows, I don't know how to zoom in and so on.
I would like to have a PCA with modern averages (possibly some regional averages for our areas) and position myself, like with the famous K15 map.
I dislike big dispersive maps like the vahaduo one, I prefer a simple map with big squares/dots and names, easy to look at.

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vahaduo's pca is the easiest to use:
https://vahaduo.github.io/custompca/

but PAST PCAs are easier to look at.
for PAST it's best to prepare your data in Excel first, then just paste it into PAST.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

vahaduo's pca is the easiest to use:
https://vahaduo.github.io/custompca/

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What do projected and pca data mean?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nausevar

What do projected and pca data mean?

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source data - whenever you add or remove a sample from here, the shape of a PCA changes a bit.
projected data - doesn't influence the PCA, they are just projected, like the K15 map. when you are satisfied with the shape of the PCA, then continue to add samples here.
pca data - you don't add samples here, this is where the program outputs the results of the calculation (the PCA). you can copy it and project it as an XY graph in another program (like past)

Position of Serbian TA members in PCA with north Slavic cluster (Russian, Polish, Ukrainian and Belarus regional averages), and pre-Slavic cluster (Greek and Italian averages)

https://i.imgur.com/n0BcQdp.png


As seen in the chart, we can be modeled with northern Slavs and southern Italians, but not with northern Italians.

Kits from Serb Republic region in Bosnia

contact@dnamatches.in.rs

North_Atlantic 23.11 Pct
Baltic 29.57 Pct
West_Med 19.27 Pct
West_Asian 10.91 Pct
East_Med 13.07 Pct
Red_Sea 0.35 Pct
South_Asian 1.99 Pct
East_Asian 1.52 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.21 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 29.36 Pct
Baltic 24.44 Pct
West_Med 18.4 Pct
West_Asian 8.09 Pct
East_Med 15.07 Pct
Red_Sea 2.02 Pct
South_Asian 1.24 Pct
East_Asian 0.15 Pct
Siberian 0.84 Pct
Amerindian 0.13 Pct
Oceanian 0.25 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 30.11 Pct
Baltic 27.19 Pct
West_Med 18.58 Pct
West_Asian 9.07 Pct
East_Med 11.51 Pct
Red_Sea 1.18 Pct
South_Asian 1.12 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.51 Pct
Amerindian 0.21 Pct
Oceanian 0.5 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 19.84 Pct
Baltic 32.64 Pct
West_Med 16.27 Pct
West_Asian 9.05 Pct
East_Med 21.02 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.14 Pct
East_Asian 0.19 Pct
Siberian 0.54 Pct
Amerindian 0.32 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 27.45 Pct
Baltic 28.16 Pct
West_Med 19.37 Pct
West_Asian 6.34 Pct
East_Med 16.51 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Amerindian 0.12 Pct
Oceanian 0.1 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.35 Pct

North_Atlantic 24.23 Pct
Baltic 29.48 Pct
West_Med 14.81 Pct
West_Asian 11.48 Pct
East_Med 16.4 Pct
Red_Sea 2.44 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.63 Pct
Siberian 0.2 Pct
Amerindian 0.32 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 25.66 Pct
Baltic 30.3 Pct
West_Med 17.18 Pct
West_Asian 5.52 Pct
East_Med 16.52 Pct
Red_Sea 1.05 Pct
South_Asian 1.24 Pct
East_Asian 1.17 Pct
Siberian 0.5 Pct
Amerindian 0.12 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.4 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.3 Pc

North_Atlantic 23.83 Pct
Baltic 26.24 Pct
West_Med 19.79 Pct
West_Asian 12.57 Pct
East_Med 14.55 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.23 Pct
East_Asian 1.59 Pct
Siberian 0.5 Pct
Amerindian 0.71 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

and many more

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Kits from Serb Republic region in Bosnia

contact@dnamatches.in.rs

North_Atlantic 23.11 Pct
Baltic 29.57 Pct
West_Med 19.27 Pct
West_Asian 10.91 Pct
East_Med 13.07 Pct
Red_Sea 0.35 Pct
South_Asian 1.99 Pct
East_Asian 1.52 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.21 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 29.36 Pct
Baltic 24.44 Pct
West_Med 18.4 Pct
West_Asian 8.09 Pct
East_Med 15.07 Pct
Red_Sea 2.02 Pct
South_Asian 1.24 Pct
East_Asian 0.15 Pct
Siberian 0.84 Pct
Amerindian 0.13 Pct
Oceanian 0.25 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 30.11 Pct
Baltic 27.19 Pct
West_Med 18.58 Pct
West_Asian 9.07 Pct
East_Med 11.51 Pct
Red_Sea 1.18 Pct
South_Asian 1.12 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.51 Pct
Amerindian 0.21 Pct
Oceanian 0.5 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 19.84 Pct
Baltic 32.64 Pct
West_Med 16.27 Pct
West_Asian 9.05 Pct
East_Med 21.02 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.14 Pct
East_Asian 0.19 Pct
Siberian 0.54 Pct
Amerindian 0.32 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 27.45 Pct
Baltic 28.16 Pct
West_Med 19.37 Pct
West_Asian 6.34 Pct
East_Med 16.51 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Amerindian 0.12 Pct
Oceanian 0.1 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.35 Pct

North_Atlantic 24.23 Pct
Baltic 29.48 Pct
West_Med 14.81 Pct
West_Asian 11.48 Pct
East_Med 16.4 Pct
Red_Sea 2.44 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.63 Pct
Siberian 0.2 Pct
Amerindian 0.32 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 25.66 Pct
Baltic 30.3 Pct
West_Med 17.18 Pct
West_Asian 5.52 Pct
East_Med 16.52 Pct
Red_Sea 1.05 Pct
South_Asian 1.24 Pct
East_Asian 1.17 Pct
Siberian 0.5 Pct
Amerindian 0.12 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.4 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.3 Pc

North_Atlantic 23.83 Pct
Baltic 26.24 Pct
West_Med 19.79 Pct
West_Asian 12.57 Pct
East_Med 14.55 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.23 Pct
East_Asian 1.59 Pct
Siberian 0.5 Pct
Amerindian 0.71 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

and many more

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these are from Western Serbia (Čačak)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

these are from Western Serbia (Čačak)

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Why call it "Dna matches in RS"?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Why call it "Dna matches in RS"?

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RS is the country code abbreviation for Republic of Serbia, Republika Srpska would be "SRP", you can see this on the YFULL list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ayetooey

RS is the country code abbreviation for Republic of Serbia, Republika Srpska would be "SRP", you can see this on the YFULL list.

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I was always familiar with the ISO code "SRB", but now I can see that the 2 letter ISO code is also "RS".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ayetooey

RS is the country code abbreviation for Republic of Serbia, Republika Srpska would be "SRP", you can see this on the YFULL list.

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Yes.

For example here next to Bosnian flag where is written in parenthesis BA-SRP means it's from Republika Srpska, and next to Serbian flag is RS https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y81557*/

What's the difference between Montenegrin and Serb_Montenegro?

my wifes cousins k13 coords, he is half Montenegro and half Croatian from Bosnia, i dont know were he should be put, her on serbian autosomal or croatian, maby both?
wife_cousin,22.83,31.01,18.35,9.55,15.19,0.63,1.57 ,0,0.18,0.69,0,0,0

Distance to: wifes_CousinDanjel
3.15963605 Serb
3.32466540 Serb_Bosnia
3.59626195 Serb_Croatia
3.63185903 Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
3.63803518 Moldova_average
3.66953676 Serb_Serbia_West
3.87497097 Serb_Serbia_Central
3.88175218 Romania_Maramures
3.90056406 Serb_Herzegovina
3.97312220 Moldova_Centre
4.04075488 Serb_Serbia_South
4.30965196 Romania_Moldavia_North
4.42452257 Bosniak
5.02198168 Croat_South
5.24544564 Moldova_South
5.47906926 Montenegrin
5.72456985 Romania_Crisana
5.81830731 Romania_Moldavia_South
5.95550166 Romania_Transylvania
5.96707634 Romania_average
6.27521314 Moldova_North
6.39056336 Romania_Banat
6.56716834 Serb_Southern_Montenegro
6.68063620 Bulgaria_Northwestern
6.90520818 Romania_Oltenia

Target: wifes_CousinDanjel
Distance: 2.7372% / 2.73722572 | ADC: 0.5x RC
70.3 Serb_Bosnia
29.7 Moldova_South

Target: wifes_CousinDanjel
Distance: 1.4765% / 1.47654950 | ADC: 0.25x RC
32.9 Silesian
30.9 Pomak_Bulgaria
20.4 Greek_Northern-Thrace
9.9 Moldova_North
4.7 Italian_Sardinia
1.2 Kol

I have impression that you are one of the most homogene ethnic groups i was able to find on Forum. Population size included.

I have a question regarding Montenegro.What shifts them more southern? More of that "Vlachs" in their mountains? Proximity of Albaninans? Some Greek/Italian settlers because its coastal as well, or they didn't have them at all ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catnip

I have impression that you are one of the most homogene ethnic groups i was able to find on Forum. Population size included.

I have a question regarding Montenegro.What shifts them more southern? More of that "Vlachs" in their mountains? Proximity of Albaninans? Some Greek/Italian settlers because its coastal as well, or they didn't have them at all ?

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The Serb cluster is of similar size as those of most other Balkan nations, like e.g. Bulgarians, Albanians, Bosniaks, it's more homogenous than e.g. the Romanian/Moldovan, but they are much more numerous and live on a huge territory.

Maybe it looks homogenous because all are roughly 60/40% Slavic-Balkanic mix, but there variations in the amount of Slavic ancestry and the type of pre-Slavic ancestry.

The thing about Montenegro, specifically the Southern and eastern parts of the country, is IMO not the mountain Vlachs, those were numerous in other areas too, but a large urban Roman population surviving and gradually merging with the Slavs.
In some other areas no pre-Slavic towns survived at all.

Quote:

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According to P. Mijovic’s research, in the Duklja region (i.e. today's southern Montenegro) , the first stage of the Slavic development of these lands did not leave
no trace in urban culture. Only from the ninth century Slavic appears in the cities
ethnic component, which eventually becomes decisive.

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Maybe the recent mixing with Albanians plays a role too, but Montenegrins aren't particularly shifted towards them on a population level, it's a slightly different "southern" influence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

The Serb cluster is of similar size as those of most other Balkan nations, like e.g. Bulgarians, Albanians, Bosniaks, it's more homogenous than e.g. the Romanian/Moldovan, but they are much more numerous and live on a huge territory.

Maybe it looks homogenous because all are roughly 60/40% Slavic-Balkanic mix, but there variations in the amount of Slavic ancestry and the type of pre-Slavic ancestry.

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I see,i'll check than another thread for more results.

[ QUOTE]The thing about Montenegro, specifically the Southern and eastern parts of the country, is IMO not the mountain Vlachs, those were numerous in other areas too, but a large urban Roman population surviving and gradually merging with the Slavs.
In some other areas no pre-Slavic towns survived at all.



Maybe the recent mixing with Albanians plays a role too, but Montenegrins aren't particularly shifted towards them on a population level, it's a slightly different "southern" influence.[/QUOTE]

Interesting stuff. Somehow i dont see Slavs in the mountains neither. At least not at the beginning.

Is there a region with a tendency to be more Slavic? For what i saw that's not Voiwodina, even if it's northernmost?

The most slavic serbs are in northern bosnia and central croatia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catnip

I see,i'll check than another thread for more results.

The thing about Montenegro, specifically the Southern and eastern parts of the country, is IMO not the mountain Vlachs, those were numerous in other areas too, but a large urban Roman population surviving and gradually merging with the Slavs.
In some other areas no pre-Slavic towns survived at all.



Maybe the recent mixing with Albanians plays a role too, but Montenegrins aren't particularly shifted towards them on a population level, it's a slightly different "southern" influence.

Interesting stuff. Somehow i dont see Slavs in the mountains neither. At least not at the beginning.

Is there a region with a tendency to be more Slavic? For what i saw that's not Voiwodina, even if it's northernmost?

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Yes, some of the least Slavic results I saw are from Vojvodina.
Vojvodina was settled by Kosovo Serbs (one of the least Slavic groups), and they traditionally mixed with Romanians (who also aren't very Slavic) a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_...s_of_the_Serbs

the most Slavic regions are those which Nasuevar mentioned, and also that one called "Podrinje and Posavina" on this map:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.../Serbia022.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

Yes, some of the least Slavic results I saw are from Vojvodina.
Vojvodina was settled by Kosovo Serbs (one of the least Slavic groups), and they traditionally mixed with Romanians (who also aren't very Slavic) a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_...s_of_the_Serbs

the most Slavic regions are those which Nasuevar mentioned, and also that one called "Podrinje and Posavina" on this map:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.../Serbia022.png

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Interesting, it seems that Slavs really prefered meadows, rivers, flatter areas.Than Dinaric Alps should certainly be more 'Vlach' admixed. At least in terms of phenotypes than seem to be more authentic western Balkanians

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catnip

Interesting, it seems that Slavs really prefered meadows, rivers, flatter areas.Than Dinaric Alps should certainly be more 'Vlach' admixed. At least in terms of phenotypes than seem to be more authentic western Balkanians

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Serbs from some areas near Drina river (part of western Serbia and NE Bosnia) have high R1a. But vast majority of them originated from Dinaric Alps (migrations in Ottoman time and later). They have high R1a mostly due to local hot spot of R1a-YP3992 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP3992/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Crostised? These towns have Croats since forever. Croatian saint Leopold Mandić is from Herceg Novi. These towns had nothing to do with Montenegro until post WW2.
Their culture, architecture and people are continuation of southern Croatia.

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Well, of course it's continuation, they are mostly settlers from Dalmatia proper and Dubrovnik area - they didn't originate in Montenegro thought.
Leopold Mandić was also originally from Dalmatia, with even deeper ancestry from Bosnia. Question is when did that "since forever" happened?

Croats were in charge for all things maritime, and extended/ settled further towards coastal cities already in the early days of Venice Republic. I'm not familiar with anything else, and I'm not taking D.A.I. as valuable historical source.

Many places including Herzegovina had several malaria outburst in the past. "Rakitno area" went almost entirely desolated once, and few families settled eastern Herzegovina; but majority founded "Neretvica" community in the mountains of Konjic along with some Dalmatians and one Italian family. Those who went east certainly mixed with catholic Montenegrins in the region- but in reality, it's not like religion mattered much to "Vlaj/Dinarids" in the early medieval era.

They were observed as immoral, irreligious and wild by literally everyone outside of the region, including all proper Christians back than. All priests, both catholic and orthodox tried to tamed them, which started to happen only in the late medieval era.

Until than they would go and take some woman they really like and want; they would even steal her if necessary, escape, create a new village. Nowdays, they went in another extreme again lol.

I know I went offtopic, and it's not you stating anything, but reading some of the posts on this forum in general, a person unfamiliar with early medieval "Dinarids" may think they were the most angel-like people, traditionalist and providers lmao, and not Saqaliba-dangerous people from the mountains, an epithet some Arab gave already in the 12th century.

The only thing that really mattered to those men was to survive the harsh life and have as many healthy offsprings as possible; they didn't respect any kind of authority, and only people they truly hated ( and it happened later) were muslims.

And I can't believe that some people really look at paternal haplogroups in such patriarchal regions to explain and justify the entire autosomal through them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Varda

Serbs from some areas near Drina river (part of western Serbia and NE Bosnia) have high R1a. But vast majority of them originated from Dinaric Alps (migrations in Ottoman time and later). They have high R1a mostly due to local hot spot of R1a-YP3992 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP3992/

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Ok, but their settlements were probably in walleys, protected from winds and close to water suplies. Today settlements are even on high latitudes, and i dont see anyone living there in the distant past besides Vlachs, It would too dangereus. Later situation changed. Same is the entire Europe.

@Marsa, i guess those are Dinaric Talibans i heard about ;) Already in the 12th century,wow. They adopted preslavic/vlach way of life, mixed wit them, that's why you are all Vlachoslavs today

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catnip

Ok, but their settlements were probably in walleys, protected from winds and close to water suplies. Today settlements are even on high latitudes, and i dont see anyone living there in the distant past besides Vlachs, It would too dangereus. Later situation changed. Same is the entire Europe.

@Marsa, i guess those are Dinaric Talibans i heard about ;) Already in the 12th century,wow. They adopted preslavic/vlach way of life, mixed wit them, that's why you are all Vlachoslavs today

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Ottoman invasion caused migrations and many Serbs from valleys and plains moved to mountains, migrated on Austrian and Venetians territories or converted to islam and stayed in the valleys/plains. In the mountains Serbs were pretty isolated from Ottomans, unlike in valleys/plains. When the Ottomans collapsed many Serbs came down from the mountains to plains and valleys from were their ancestors once escaped. For example Serbs from fertile basin Župa (http://vinozupa.com/en/company/history-of-zupa/) in central Serbia mostly came from nearby mountain Kopaonik (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopaonik) in 19th century when Ottomans left that area. There was a research of y dna of Serbs from Župa area in 2014; I2a-Din is about Serbian average, R1a is higher than Serbian average, E-V13 is sbout average etc. Александровац етнички Срби 85 Тодоровић (2014) https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Генетс...је
Александровац is the center of Župa.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Varda

Ottoman invasion caused migrations and many Serbs from valleys and plains moved to mountains, migrated on Austrian and Venetians territories or converted to islam and stayed in the valleys/plains. In the mountains Serbs were pretty isolated from Ottomans, unlike in valleys/plains. When the Ottomans collapsed many Serbs came down from the mountains to plains and valleys from were their ancestors once escaped. For example Serbs from fertile basin Župa (http://vinozupa.com/en/company/history-of-zupa/) in central Serbia mostly came from nearby mountain Kopaonik (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopaonik) in 19th century when Ottomans left that area. There was a research of y dna of Serbs from Župa area in 2014; I2a-Din is about Serbian average, R1a is higher than Serbian average, E-V13 is sbout average etc. Александровац етнички Срби 85 Тодоровић (2014) https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Генетс...је
Александровац is the center of Župa.

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OK thnx, that's what i meant actually. That many things occured during and after Ottoman empire, including re-settlings in mountain areas. Dinaric Alps werent thé first choice of 'Early Slavs'.

New samples from Poreklo

Population
North_Atlantic 19.79 Pct
Baltic 31.3 Pct
West_Med 19.84 Pct
West_Asian 8.43 Pct
East_Med 16.61 Pct
Red_Sea 1.58 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 1.06 Pct
Siberian 0.98 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.41 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Population
North_Atlantic 23.48 Pct
Baltic 30.2 Pct
West_Med 16.81 Pct
West_Asian 7.22 Pct
East_Med 17.72 Pct
Red_Sea 3.64 Pct
South_Asian 0.27 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.67 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Some nice PCA plots from Genoplot



Eurogenes K13

https://i.imgur.com/9mxttSk.png


Dodecad K12b

https://i.imgur.com/iRHviKU.png

GeniKameni,5.74,0,1.39,0.35,27.01,36.2,0,0,5.18,0, 24.09,0
Where im i on pca?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feiichy

Here is model I'm currently using (ancient samples selected by Vbnethkio plus modern Germanic averages from southern Scandinavia).
I find his selection extraordinary good because he dropped obviously mixed early Slavic samples from Czech Republic for example.

Code:

---

Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I2175_Bulgaria_EBA_5122_ybp,25.65,9.85,35.91,0,25.77,1.7,0,0,0,0,0,1.11,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I2176_Bulgaria_EBA_published_5132_ybp,24.99,12.62,32.15,0,26.93,2.15,0,0,0.01,0.88,0,0.26,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp,30.68,13,27.73,10.03,16.07,0.6,0,1.05,0,0.21,0,0,0.64
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:Bul6_Bulgaria_Beli_Breyag_EBA_4450_ybp,22.05,11.26,35.23,0.72,25.07,5.42,0,0,0,0,0.25,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I2165_Bulgaria_EBA_4908_ybp,30.55,21.81,20.01,8.06,12.49,5.56,0,0,0,0.17,1.35,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30,9.21,28.33,4.36,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I2520_Bulgaria_EBA_5132_ybp,23.15,16.12,30.59,0.13,25.02,3.53,0,0.35,0,0,1.12,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12.62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0,0,0.38,0,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp,33.68,12.02,24.41,7.67,19.6,1.39,0,0,0,1.23,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R132_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.49,0,24.28,1.26,35.08,12.33,0,1.72,0.41,0,0.6,8.28,2.57
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R80_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,15.29,0.52,23.55,5.43,37.6,11.68,0,0.2,0,0,0.26,4.42,1.06
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R42_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,0.53,0,15.4,20.48,43.2,14.76,1.31,1.03,0,0,0,3.29,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1547_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.97,0,17.54,19.13,43.1,13.27,2.48,0,0,0,0,2.51,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1550_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.93,0,17.45,22.44,37.8,13.78,2.1,0.71,0,0.02,0.31,2.45,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R41_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.7,0,21.47,17.49,39.58,7.59,0.39,1.94,0,0.76,0.14,1.91,0.03
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R67_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.11,0.88,12.12,32.7,36.78,9.27,3.73,0.37,0,0.32,0.39,1.9,0.44
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R45_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.66,2.53,24.25,10.61,36.68,8.16,0,1.14,0,0,1.4,1.69,0.89
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R70_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.21,2.28,19.34,21.39,41.91,10.3,0,0,0,0.19,0,1.38,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R75_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.62,0,22.68,21.74,35.29,9.37,0,0.37,0,0.21,0.47,1.25,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R73_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.96,1.16,19.72,17.3,34.38,11.41,2.22,0.01,0.03,0.19,0,1.21,0.41
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R68_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.31,0,13.79,30.08,39.44,10.13,3.04,0,0,0,0,1.07,0.14
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1549_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,22.71,9.87,15.99,12.66,27.94,6.69,0.86,1.18,0,0,1.29,0.81,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R76_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.62,3.3,16.77,23.96,38.85,10.18,1.73,0,0,0.82,0,0.77,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R47_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.98,5.83,21.98,16.85,28.76,6.43,0,0,0.29,0.72,0.51,0.64,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1543_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.86,0.47,16.98,14.67,40.12,7.56,1.33,1.13,0,0.31,0,0.57,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R49_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.25,8.08,21.47,16.31,31.17,4.53,0,0,0,0.2,1.31,0.53,0.15
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R115_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.94,4.56,21.96,20.12,34.47,7.02,1.72,0.93,0,0,0,0.26,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R125_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,15.24,4.84,25.65,22.02,27.75,3.78,0,0,0,0,0.54,0.18,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1548_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.7,7.83,17.2,21.18,31.85,6.18,0.1,0,1.17,0,0.7,0.07,0.01
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R835_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.48,7.33,22.76,15.83,28.17,4.29,2.11,0,0,0.18,0.49,0,1.37
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R50_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.8,5.92,19.69,18.96,31.66,8.21,1.77,0.13,0,0,0,0,0.87
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R126_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,6.85,0,21.95,22.6,37.03,8.91,0.98,0.75,0,0,0.22,0,0.71
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R131_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,18.55,6.06,22.93,13.3,31.22,5.99,0,1.15,0,0.4,0,0,0.4
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R38_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.92,0,18.71,28.11,41.51,8.68,0,0,0,0.45,0.34,0,0.28
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R40_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.72,0,23,19.52,36.2,5.66,0,0.47,0.15,0,0,0,0.27
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,7.27,26.59,13.06,25.7,1.65,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R113_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,4.01,26.05,11.36,28.27,3.92,0,0,0,0.46,0.2,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R114_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.19,6.78,18.04,19.02,29.56,7.35,0.58,0.77,0,0.7,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R123_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,12.03,4.13,19.45,20.54,37.07,3.99,0,0.97,0,0,1.83,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R128_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,2.63,8.5,21.08,27.13,34.24,5.03,0,0,0,0.84,0.55,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1544_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.53,4.64,21.39,18.62,31.87,3.82,1.51,0,0.43,0.3,0.89,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1545_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.35,3.4,22.3,23.93,31.78,7.44,0.06,0,0,0,0.73,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1551_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.31,0,12.6,36.12,34.89,8.22,2.15,0.72,0,0,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R39_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,9.38,2.57,24.97,19.78,34.82,5.66,0,1.74,0.29,0.78,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R43_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.19,0,22.2,21.83,39.45,3.15,0.45,0,0,0.08,0.65,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R44_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.45,0,23.48,18.04,38.86,5.16,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R51_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,20.47,1.28,20.11,15.05,34.89,5.56,0,0.17,0,0.59,1.88,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R66_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,7.81,1.07,23.57,24.26,37.48,4.96,0,0,0,0,0.85,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R69_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.48,4.41,24.55,22.98,33.7,0.54,0,0.59,0,0.5,0.25,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R71_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,6.09,0.06,20.33,24.54,44.64,3.4,0,0,0,0,0.94,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R72_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.24,0,22.92,19.04,41.2,5.12,0,0,0.57,0,0.91,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R78_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.76,2.77,22.82,22.14,43.72,2.03,0,0.1,0,0.27,0.39,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R81_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.54,2.43,22.21,17.14,39.17,4.79,1.98,0,0,0,0.74,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R836_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.9,4.35,25.43,19.62,29.98,1.61,0,0,0,0.28,0.83,0,0
Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_1356_ybp,30.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0,1.56,0.94,0,0.46,0
Slavic:Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,45.83,13.05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0.00,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0.42,0.00
Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.70,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0.00,1.18,0.56,0.79,0.00,1.29
Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0.00,0.00,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.87
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26,8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0
Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.53,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63,3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56,6.08,4.86,0,0,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0,1.85
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.37,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56
Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14.97,2.7,4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0
Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29
Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.87
Slavic:KRA011_S-Anhalt_1100_AD,29.56,50.68,8.38,2.39,2.54,1.03,1.3,0.14,0,1.4,1.27,1.1,0.21
Slavic:KRA001_S-Anhalt_1100_AD,25.47,47.56,12.36,7.54,1.32,0,2.43,0.52,0.01,1.2,0.71,0.61,0.27
Slavic:VK494_Poland_Sandomierz,32.56,47.37,12.86,2.56,0,0,0.82,2.53,0.31,0.22,0,0.77,0
Slavic:VK466_Russia_Gnezdovo,25.85,43.15,9.22,12.82,0,0,2.34,0.15,0,2.09,1.69,0,2.69
Slavic:VK340_Denmark_Jutland,28.29,43.29,9.89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0
Germanic:Denmark,50.61,28.70,10.19,5.00,2.12,0.52,0.99,0.19,0.42,0.59,0.23,0.12,0.17
Germanic:Norway_South_Central,50.83,28.97,9.61,4.78,1.91,0.62,0.94,0.11,0.63,0.68,0.56,0.13,0.23
Germanic:Norwegian,51.14,28.61,9.91,5.60,1.73,0.43,0.42,0.36,0.64,0.91,0.15,0.01,0.10
Germanic:Sweden_Götaland,50.53,29.29,9.86,4.67,1.88,0.62,0.93,0.21,0.69,0.55,0.41,0.18,0.2

---

Fit will be outstanding for almost everyone due to sheer volume of samples. Romanians and Moldovans would probably require some extra Turkic samples though.

---

51.2 Slavic
46.2 Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman
2.6 Germanic

Map ph2ter did for me, based on K13 Eurogenes

https://i.postimg.cc/VkJ8xGgY/Nikola-P-15-big-K13-1.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hazmatnik

Map ph2ter did for me, based on K13 Eurogenes

https://i.postimg.cc/VkJ8xGgY/Nikola-P-15-big-K13-1.png

---

nice

Here is my mother in laws cords, she is from Montenegro on her Fathers side are Scepanovic/ Tribe Rovca And her mothers side Medenica/ Tribe Moraca

k13
Milenko_Motherinlaw,21.3,25.64,19.65,13.88,13.29,2 .7,2.12,0,0,1.07,0.21,0.15,0

K12b
Milenko_Motherinlaw,20.88,1.83,0,0,15 ,2.14,22.03,6.03,29.27,0

MDLP k!6
Milenko_Motherinlaw0,0,15.66,2.67,0,0,31.98,0,20.7 ,2.08,26.91,0,0,0,0,0

Dodecad K12b
Milenko_Motherinlaw,5.86,1.42,0,0,27.68,33.84,0.74 ,0,6.03,0,24.42,0

Nikac (Никац) posted at Poreklo ancient autosomal admixture for Serbs from 4 regions, i will translate his post https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...0522#msg180522

Serbs from central, western Serbia and Vojvodina get: Slavs, Moeso-Romance (locals and Middle Eastern), Cumans in traces.

Target: SerbianW
Distance: 1.1457% / 0.01145683
34.4 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
28.6 SRB_Roman
26.2 TUR_Marmar_Ilipinar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
9.6 SRB_Roman_MiddleEast
1.2 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


Krajina and Bosnian Serbs have Illyro-Romance influence:

Target: SerbianK
Distance: 1.3198% / 0.01319822
36.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
23.8 TUR_Marmara_Ilipinar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
10.8 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
9.0 HRV_North_Roman
7.2 MNE_Roman
6.0 HRV_Roman
5.0 SRB_Roman
1.4 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


Among Serbs from southeastern Serbia is very weak influence of Middle Eastern Romans, and prevail Moeso-Romance locals:

Target: SerbianE
Distance: 1.4837% / 0.01483656
40.8 SRB_Roman
31.6% TUR_Marmara_Ilipinar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
21.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
4.8 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
1.2 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


Montenegrins, interesting, don't get Illyro-Romance, only Moesians. There is a Germanic influence as well.

Target: Montenegrin
Distance: 0.7442% / 0.00744217
35.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
32.2 SRB_Roman
15.2 TUR_Marmara_Ilipnar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
12.2 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
4.2 SVN_Germanic
1.0 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


It is interesting relation of Pannonian and Anatolian Slav. Pannonian is the strongest among Slovenes, and Anatolian grows towards the east, although there are exceptions. I believe situation will be clearer when we get more early Slavic results.

......

Nikac also posted this models for Moldavians, and show that we are not so close to them as it seems from a surface without deeper analyses https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...0527#msg180527

Here is model for our "cousins" Moldavians.

Target: Moldavian
Distance: 0.6276% / 0.00627633
26.6 RUS_MA_Slavic
24.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
20.0 HUN_east_Late_Antiquity
12.4 TUR_Marmara_Ilipnar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
7.0 SRB_Roman
6.2 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
2.0 ROU_Ploesti_MA
1.0 IND_Roopkund_A

They definitely show stronger influence of medieval East Slavs, and Daco-Romance people. They also have small Roma (Gypsy) influence. Therefore, yet we can distinguish them from us, regardless we are mix of similar components in similar amounts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hazmatnik

Map ph2ter did for me, based on K13 Eurogenes

https://i.postimg.cc/VkJ8xGgY/Nikola-P-15-big-K13-1.png

---

Hmm, interesting. How come you have less in the Bosniak_Tuzla area? What is so different genetically in that area?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Varda

Nikac (Никац) posted at Poreklo ancient autosomal admixture for Serbs from 4 regions, i will translate his post https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...0522#msg180522

Serbs from central, western Serbia and Vojvodina get: Slavs, Moeso-Romance (locals and Middle Eastern), Cumans in traces.

Target: SerbianW
Distance: 1.1457% / 0.01145683
34.4 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
28.6 SRB_Roman
26.2 TUR_Marmar_Ilipinar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
9.6 SRB_Roman_MiddleEast
1.2 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


Krajina and Bosnian Serbs have Illyro-Romance influence:

Target: SerbianK
Distance: 1.3198% / 0.01319822
36.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
23.8 TUR_Marmara_Ilipinar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
10.8 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
9.0 HRV_North_Roman
7.2 MNE_Roman
6.0 HRV_Roman
5.0 SRB_Roman
1.4 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


Among Serbs from southeastern Serbia is very weak influence of Middle Eastern Romans, and prevail Moeso-Romance locals:

Target: SerbianE
Distance: 1.4837% / 0.01483656
40.8 SRB_Roman
31.6% TUR_Marmara_Ilipinar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
21.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
4.8 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
1.2 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


Montenegrins, interesting, don't get Illyro-Romance, only Moesians. There is a Germanic influence as well.

Target: Montenegrin
Distance: 0.7442% / 0.00744217
35.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
32.2 SRB_Roman
15.2 TUR_Marmara_Ilipnar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
12.2 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
4.2 SVN_Germanic
1.0 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


It is interesting relation of Pannonian and Anatolian Slav. Pannonian is the strongest among Slovenes, and Anatolian grows towards the east, although there are exceptions. I believe situation will be clearer when we get more early Slavic results.

......

Nikac also posted this models for Moldavians, and show that we are not so close to them as it seems from a surface without deeper analyses https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...0527#msg180527

Here is model for our "cousins" Moldavians.

Target: Moldavian
Distance: 0.6276% / 0.00627633
26.6 RUS_MA_Slavic
24.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
20.0 HUN_east_Late_Antiquity
12.4 TUR_Marmara_Ilipnar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
7.0 SRB_Roman
6.2 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
2.0 ROU_Ploesti_MA
1.0 IND_Roopkund_A

They definitely show stronger influence of medieval East Slavs, and Daco-Romance people. They also have small Roma (Gypsy) influence. Therefore, yet we can distinguish them from us, regardless we are mix of similar components in similar amounts.

---

Btw the biggest surprise here is lack of Illyrian DNA in Montenegrins. Germanic influence in Montenegrins is also interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Varda

Nikac (Никац) posted at Poreklo ancient autosomal admixture for Serbs from 4 regions, i will translate his post https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...0522#msg180522

Serbs from central, western Serbia and Vojvodina get: Slavs, Moeso-Romance (locals and Middle Eastern), Cumans in traces.

Target: SerbianW
Distance: 1.1457% / 0.01145683
34.4 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
28.6 SRB_Roman
26.2 TUR_Marmar_Ilipinar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
9.6 SRB_Roman_MiddleEast
1.2 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


Krajina and Bosnian Serbs have Illyro-Romance influence:

Target: SerbianK
Distance: 1.3198% / 0.01319822
36.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
23.8 TUR_Marmara_Ilipinar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
10.8 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
9.0 HRV_North_Roman
7.2 MNE_Roman
6.0 HRV_Roman
5.0 SRB_Roman
1.4 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


Among Serbs from southeastern Serbia is very weak influence of Middle Eastern Romans, and prevail Moeso-Romance locals:

Target: SerbianE
Distance: 1.4837% / 0.01483656
40.8 SRB_Roman
31.6% TUR_Marmara_Ilipinar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
21.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
4.8 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
1.2 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


Montenegrins, interesting, don't get Illyro-Romance, only Moesians. There is a Germanic influence as well.

Target: Montenegrin
Distance: 0.7442% / 0.00744217
35.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
32.2 SRB_Roman
15.2 TUR_Marmara_Ilipnar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
12.2 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
4.2 SVN_Germanic
1.0 ROU_Ploesti_MA (Cuman)


It is interesting relation of Pannonian and Anatolian Slav. Pannonian is the strongest among Slovenes, and Anatolian grows towards the east, although there are exceptions. I believe situation will be clearer when we get more early Slavic results.

......

Nikac also posted this models for Moldavians, and show that we are not so close to them as it seems from a surface without deeper analyses https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...0527#msg180527

Here is model for our "cousins" Moldavians.

Target: Moldavian
Distance: 0.6276% / 0.00627633
26.6 RUS_MA_Slavic
24.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad (Slav_Pannonia)
20.0 HUN_east_Late_Antiquity
12.4 TUR_Marmara_Ilipnar_Byz3 (Slav_Anatolia)
7.0 SRB_Roman
6.2 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
2.0 ROU_Ploesti_MA
1.0 IND_Roopkund_A

They definitely show stronger influence of medieval East Slavs, and Daco-Romance people. They also have small Roma (Gypsy) influence. Therefore, yet we can distinguish them from us, regardless we are mix of similar components in similar amounts.

---

I got Moesian and Thracian, not Ilyrian admix.


Target: Dušan_g25
Distance: 1.3842% / 0.01384190
35.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad(Sloven_Panonija)
34.0 TUR_Marmara_Ilipinar_Byz3(Sloven_Anadolija)
14.6 SRB_Roman
7.8 BGR_RomByz(Thracian)
4.0 HRV_Roman_MiddleEast
2.8 ROU_Ploiesti_MA
1.6 MNE_Roman