Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

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03-05-2021, 06:55 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas

I think it is question or rewriting existing 2-way oracle script. But I guess it would be very slow. Maybe Vbknethio can do.

the fastest option I could think of is to have precalculated sheets of all possible 50/50 and 25/25/25/25 combinations for each calculator, and then just run normal distance on that. Everything else would be much slower. 50/50 not so much, but 4-way would take hours.
03-05-2021, 09:17 PM
J. Ketch

Have rectified the problems with the Dutch academic samples by removing 44 with too much African/East Asian/Oceanian/Amerindian. Also some other averages to update

K13

Code:

Afrikaner,44.05,22.81,13.97,4.92,6.25,0.88,2.34,0.94,0.43,0.51,0.54,0.47,1.82 Belgian,45.31,22.61,14.89,5.57,7.74,1.16,0.78,0.29,0.13,0.56,0.44,0.30,0.14 Dutch,49.05,25.17,12.16,4.92,3.98,1.17,0.96,0.39,0.51,0.63,0.42,0.27,0.30 Dutch_Central,49.54,25.41,11.60,4.78,3.73,1.37,0.96,0.46,0.44,0.66,0.47,0.24,0.28 Dutch_North,50.24,26.40,10.76,4.82,3.25,0.77,0.88,0.36,0.55,0.70,0.49,0.31,0.42 Dutch_South,45.96,23.36,15.21,5.01,5.67,1.35,0.94,0.38,0.56,0.54,0.29,0.35,0.31 Flemish,46.12,23.02,14.39,5.56,7.05,0.88,0.87,0.43,0.17,0.57,0.37,0.35,0.17 Irish,52.49,22.93,12.53,6.86,1.44,0.46,1.37,0.18,0.25,0.82,0.29,0.15,0.14

K15

Code:

Afrikaner,31.73,25.27,10.94,8.08,10.14,3.70,3.31,0.71,2.10,0.74,0.23,0.35,0.39,0.51,1.72 Dutch,37.07,25.93,10.82,9.22,8.48,3.16,1.91,0.83,0.67,0.26,0.28,0.47,0.31,0.23,0.27 Dutch_Central,37.03,26.55,11.04,9.21,7.75,3.07,1.82,0.94,0.67,0.30,0.24,0.50,0.35,0.20,0.24 Dutch_North,40.33,24.45,10.84,9.65,7.80,2.60,1.12,0.41,0.68,0.21,0.36,0.45,0.37,0.24,0.42 Dutch_South,33.18,25.80,10.33,8.52,11.45,3.77,3.20,1.23,0.69,0.26,0.36,0.42,0.18,0.29,0.23 Irish,36.92,30.40,9.48,8.82,7.71,4.21,0.16,0.27,0.96,0.09,0.09,0.52,0.15,0.08,0.08

K12b

Code:

German_Northwest,8.26,0.21,0.30,0.13,35.34,47.17,0.22,0.06,0.83,0.02,7.41,0

Thanks.
03-06-2021, 10:56 AM
Dunai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

I wish Dunai revised the Hungarian average. Maybe it should be replaced with a better one. He has the data.

I will revisit K12b, since I see it's the other pretty popular calculator next to K13 for many Europeans, with seemingly constant updates and improvements, so I will reconsider my previous reservations about it. However I can't really give a proper time limit when I might be done.
03-06-2021, 11:09 AM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunai

I will revisit K12b, since I see it's the other pretty popular calculator next to K13 for many Europeans, with seemingly constant updates and improvements, so I will reconsider my previous reservations about it. However I can't really give a proper time limit when I might be done.

Just pick 15-20 decent samples from various parts of Hungary and you'll get a solid average. You don't need 100 samples for that.
03-06-2021, 11:13 AM
Dunai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Just pick 15-20 decent samples from various parts of Hungary and you'll get a solid average. You don't need 100 samples for that.

Yes, I will try to select only those individuals for regional Hungarian averages whose average on K13 is the closest to their fellow regional K13 averages, and same I will do for the national Hungarian average, maybe around 30-40 representative samples from the hundreds I have.
03-06-2021, 12:34 PM
Leto

Updated Udi average for Dod K12b (more samples)

Code:

Udi,21.52,0.77,0.31,0.38,9.36,8.06,1.08,0.26,11.86,0.40,45.84,0.16
03-09-2021, 11:39 AM
Dunai

I decided to merge the Hungarians from Transylvania and Székely averages on K13, since they are neighbors and were very similar to each other. So replace these:
Hungarian,30.43,32.55,14.23,7.16,10.44,1.29,0.9,0. 54,1.19,0.55,0.36,0.2,0.15
Hungarian_Transylvania,28.82,28.63,15.09,8.19,12.3 2,1.53,1.2,0.52,2.17,0.73,0.5,0.14,0.11
Székely,28.1,28.52,15.06,8.2,13.03,1.29,0.95,0.88, 2.33,0.74,0.3,0.23,0.14

With these (I also added the Székely samples into the Hungarian average proportionally, thus the new Hungarian national average is based on 418 samples):

Code:

Hungarian,30.43,32.58,14.23,7.16,10.42,1.28,0.9,0.55,1.19,0.55,0.35,0.2,0.15 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely,28.34,28.55,15.07,8.19,12.8,1.37,1.03,0.76,2.28,0.74,0.37,0.2,0.13
03-09-2021, 11:41 AM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creoda

Have rectified the problems with the Dutch academic samples by removing 44 with too much African/East Asian/Oceanian/Amerindian. Also some other averages to update

K13

Code:

Afrikaner,44.05,22.81,13.97,4.92,6.25,0.88,2.34,0.94,0.43,0.51,0.54,0.47,1.82 Belgian,45.31,22.61,14.89,5.57,7.74,1.16,0.78,0.29,0.13,0.56,0.44,0.30,0.14 Dutch,49.05,25.17,12.16,4.92,3.98,1.17,0.96,0.39,0.51,0.63,0.42,0.27,0.30 Dutch_Central,49.54,25.41,11.60,4.78,3.73,1.37,0.96,0.46,0.44,0.66,0.47,0.24,0.28 Dutch_North,50.24,26.40,10.76,4.82,3.25,0.77,0.88,0.36,0.55,0.70,0.49,0.31,0.42 Dutch_South,45.96,23.36,15.21,5.01,5.67,1.35,0.94,0.38,0.56,0.54,0.29,0.35,0.31 Flemish,46.12,23.02,14.39,5.56,7.05,0.88,0.87,0.43,0.17,0.57,0.37,0.35,0.17 Irish,52.49,22.93,12.53,6.86,1.44,0.46,1.37,0.18,0.25,0.82,0.29,0.15,0.14

K15

Code:

Afrikaner,31.73,25.27,10.94,8.08,10.14,3.70,3.31,0.71,2.10,0.74,0.23,0.35,0.39,0.51,1.72 Dutch,37.07,25.93,10.82,9.22,8.48,3.16,1.91,0.83,0.67,0.26,0.28,0.47,0.31,0.23,0.27 Dutch_Central,37.03,26.55,11.04,9.21,7.75,3.07,1.82,0.94,0.67,0.30,0.24,0.50,0.35,0.20,0.24 Dutch_North,40.33,24.45,10.84,9.65,7.80,2.60,1.12,0.41,0.68,0.21,0.36,0.45,0.37,0.24,0.42 Dutch_South,33.18,25.80,10.33,8.52,11.45,3.77,3.20,1.23,0.69,0.26,0.36,0.42,0.18,0.29,0.23 Irish,36.92,30.40,9.48,8.82,7.71,4.21,0.16,0.27,0.96,0.09,0.09,0.52,0.15,0.08,0.08

K12b

Code:

German_Northwest,8.26,0.21,0.30,0.13,35.34,47.17,0.22,0.06,0.83,0.02,7.41,0

Thanks.

Nice job! Any hope to get west German K13 averages anytime soon? I know you were working on them.
03-09-2021, 12:16 PM
J. Ketch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Nice job! Any hope to get west German K13 averages anytime soon? I know you were working on them.

I haven't had much luck finding West German kits sadly. I'll get back to looking soon.
03-10-2021, 01:03 AM
JohnnyP

Hello, my new Macedonian K13 Average from 145 gedmatch kits;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Code:

Macedonian,22.14,21.18,20.02,11.03,21.55,2.24,0.25,0.34,0.43,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.06
03-10-2021, 11:06 AM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyP

Hello, my new Macedonian K13 Average from 145 gedmatch kits;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Code:

Macedonian,22.14,21.18,20.02,11.03,21.55,2.24,0.25,0.34,0.43,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.06

Yet the result you've arrived at is nearly identical to the old one (a difference of 0.2-0.3 percent for each component), which goes to show that a large sample size is not always necessary.
03-10-2021, 11:08 AM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Yet the result you've arrived at is nearly identical to the old one (a difference of 0.2-0.3 percent for each component), which goes to show that a large sample size is not always necessary.

Ofcourse not, if samples are representative 15 samples will yield very similar result to million samples. I still can't understand why so many people on TA don't understand that.
03-10-2021, 11:21 AM
Dunai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Yet the result you've arrived at is nearly identical to the old one (a difference of 0.2-0.3 percent for each component), which goes to show that a large sample size is not always necessary.

The same happened after I added Székely results into the Hungarian national average, in a proportionate way (Székelys constitute around 4% of Hungarians), but it only changed the previous Hungarian average by 0.08%.
03-10-2021, 02:57 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyP

Hello, my new Macedonian K13 Average from 145 gedmatch kits;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Code:

Macedonian,22.14,21.18,20.02,11.03,21.55,2.24,0.25,0.34,0.43,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.06

Added
03-10-2021, 03:02 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas

Added

Please update the Udi and also delete that thing in my message.
03-10-2021, 03:02 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creoda

Have rectified the problems with the Dutch academic samples by removing 44 with too much African/East Asian/Oceanian/Amerindian. Also some other averages to update

K13

Code:

Afrikaner,44.05,22.81,13.97,4.92,6.25,0.88,2.34,0.94,0.43,0.51,0.54,0.47,1.82 Belgian,45.31,22.61,14.89,5.57,7.74,1.16,0.78,0.29,0.13,0.56,0.44,0.30,0.14 Dutch,49.05,25.17,12.16,4.92,3.98,1.17,0.96,0.39,0.51,0.63,0.42,0.27,0.30 Dutch_Central,49.54,25.41,11.60,4.78,3.73,1.37,0.96,0.46,0.44,0.66,0.47,0.24,0.28 Dutch_North,50.24,26.40,10.76,4.82,3.25,0.77,0.88,0.36,0.55,0.70,0.49,0.31,0.42 Dutch_South,45.96,23.36,15.21,5.01,5.67,1.35,0.94,0.38,0.56,0.54,0.29,0.35,0.31 Flemish,46.12,23.02,14.39,5.56,7.05,0.88,0.87,0.43,0.17,0.57,0.37,0.35,0.17 Irish,52.49,22.93,12.53,6.86,1.44,0.46,1.37,0.18,0.25,0.82,0.29,0.15,0.14

K15

Code:

Afrikaner,31.73,25.27,10.94,8.08,10.14,3.70,3.31,0.71,2.10,0.74,0.23,0.35,0.39,0.51,1.72 Dutch,37.07,25.93,10.82,9.22,8.48,3.16,1.91,0.83,0.67,0.26,0.28,0.47,0.31,0.23,0.27 Dutch_Central,37.03,26.55,11.04,9.21,7.75,3.07,1.82,0.94,0.67,0.30,0.24,0.50,0.35,0.20,0.24 Dutch_North,40.33,24.45,10.84,9.65,7.80,2.60,1.12,0.41,0.68,0.21,0.36,0.45,0.37,0.24,0.42 Dutch_South,33.18,25.80,10.33,8.52,11.45,3.77,3.20,1.23,0.69,0.26,0.36,0.42,0.18,0.29,0.23 Irish,36.92,30.40,9.48,8.82,7.71,4.21,0.16,0.27,0.96,0.09,0.09,0.52,0.15,0.08,0.08

K12b

Code:

German_Northwest,8.26,0.21,0.30,0.13,35.34,47.17,0.22,0.06,0.83,0.02,7.41,0

Thanks.

Added :)
03-10-2021, 03:03 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunai

I decided to merge the Hungarians from Transylvania and Székely averages on K13, since they are neighbors and were very similar to each other. So replace these:
Hungarian,30.43,32.55,14.23,7.16,10.44,1.29,0.9,0. 54,1.19,0.55,0.36,0.2,0.15
Hungarian_Transylvania,28.82,28.63,15.09,8.19,12.3 2,1.53,1.2,0.52,2.17,0.73,0.5,0.14,0.11
Székely,28.1,28.52,15.06,8.2,13.03,1.29,0.95,0.88, 2.33,0.74,0.3,0.23,0.14

With these (I also added the Székely samples into the Hungarian average proportionally, thus the new Hungarian national average is based on 418 samples):

Code:

Hungarian,30.43,32.58,14.23,7.16,10.42,1.28,0.9,0.55,1.19,0.55,0.35,0.2,0.15 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely,28.34,28.55,15.07,8.19,12.8,1.37,1.03,0.76,2.28,0.74,0.37,0.2,0.13

And added:)
03-10-2021, 03:08 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Updated Udi average for Dod K12b (more samples)

Code:

Udi,21.52,0.77,0.31,0.38,9.36,8.06,1.08,0.26,11.86,0.40,45.84,0.16

Added:)
03-10-2021, 03:12 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Please update the Udi and also delete that thing in my message.

I mean deleting Pulliyar and renaming MD to Moldovan (it looks better).
03-10-2021, 03:19 PM
Dunai

I finally managed to create brand new Hungarian averages for K12b. Each regional average is based on 10 samples, specifically selected those which were the closest to their respective regional K13 averages, while the national average is based on 40 samples, and is a weighed aggregate of the 4 regional ones. Therefore please delete these:
HUN_Szekely,5.69,2.23,0.86,0.54,27.11,38.92,0.47,0 .07,3.83,1.74,18.51,0.02
Hungarians,4.10,0.70,0.00,0.00,27.00,48.40,0.30,0. 00,3.00,0.30,16.20,0.00

And add these:

Code:

Hungarian,5.69,1.19,0.59,0.21,28.09,44.65,0.65,0.04,3.31,0.24,15.16,0.02 Hungarian_Alföld,5.24,1.39,0.63,0.22,28.05,45.73,0.66,0.04,3.19,0.17,14.68,0 Hungarian_North,5.16,1.31,0.6,0.26,27.34,46.81,0.55,0.01,2.91,0.13,14.93,0 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest,6.02,0.85,0.55,0.19,28.36,44.2,0.67,0.06,3.37,0.23,15.2,0.02 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely,6.06,2.42,0.62,0.18,27.89,40.32,0.6,0,4.06,0.73,16.94,0.09
03-10-2021, 03:24 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunai

I finally managed to create brand new Hungarian averages for K12b. Each regional average is based on 10 samples, specifically selected those which were the closest to their respective regional K13 averages, while the national average is based on 40 samples, and is a weighed aggregate of the 4 regional ones. Therefore please delete these:
HUN_Szekely,5.69,2.23,0.86,0.54,27.11,38.92,0.47,0 .07,3.83,1.74,18.51,0.02
Hungarians,4.10,0.70,0.00,0.00,27.00,48.40,0.30,0. 00,3.00,0.30,16.20,0.00

And add these:

Code:

Hungarian,5.69,1.19,0.59,0.21,28.09,44.65,0.65,0.04,3.31,0.24,15.16,0.02 Hungarian_Alföld,5.24,1.39,0.63,0.22,28.05,45.73,0.66,0.04,3.19,0.17,14.68,0 Hungarian_North,5.16,1.31,0.6,0.26,27.34,46.81,0.55,0.01,2.91,0.13,14.93,0 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest,6.02,0.85,0.55,0.19,28.36,44.2,0.67,0.06,3.37,0.23,15.2,0.02 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely,6.06,2.42,0.62,0.18,27.89,40.32,0.6,0,4.06,0.73,16.94,0.09

This is fucking awesome, thank you so much. Before the old ones are deleted, I'm gonna run your brand new pops against them just to see how good the original reference is.
03-10-2021, 03:38 PM
Dunai

Interesting that this calculator makes me be more Slavic than any other calculator, but still the only one which captures my Alföld ancestry so closely. I will post my K12b vs K13 results:

K12b
Distance to: Dunai
2.20782699 Hungarian_North
2.64499527 Hungarian_Alföld
2.98667039 Hungarian
3.10958197 Slovenian
3.23913569 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
3.58714371 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.48988864 Croat
5.47313439 Slovak
5.58246361 Bosnian
5.88043366 Moldavian_North
5.97503975 Czech
6.35617023 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
9.26466945 Serb
9.58030793 Moldavian_Center
9.78249968 Sorb_Lusatia
10.19071636 German
10.97535876 Ukrainian
11.85410056 Polish_mixed
12.12514330 Bavarian_German
12.32261742 Dutch

Target: Dunai
Distance: 1.0064% / 1.00635418 | ADC: 0.5x RC
60.2 Hungarian_North
19.3 Moldavian_North
17.1 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
3.4 Tatar_Kazan

K13
Distance to: Dunai
4.48241007 Austrian
4.62222890 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
5.37693221 Hungarian
6.12456529 Slovenian
6.52157190 Hungarian_Alföld
6.84295258 Croat_North
6.92678858 German_East
7.09174168 Hungarian_Northern
7.71532242 Hungarian_Transylvania_Szekely
7.73996770 Csángó-Ceangău
7.93761929 Czech
8.01355102 Székely
8.20033536 Croat_West
8.30510084 Croat
8.42333070 Slovak
9.43855921 German
9.79133290 Croat_East
10.25001463 Croat_South
10.78504057 France_Alsace
11.28222939 Swiss_German

Target: Dunai
Distance: 1.4883% / 1.48833351 | ADC: 0.5x RC
67.3 Austrian
27.5 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.0 Shors
1.2 Kazakh
03-10-2021, 03:49 PM
Dunai

Interesting results and distances for Hungarian national average according to K12b, Asiatic element is quite high:

Distance to: Hungarian
2.20977374 Slovenian
4.50063329 Croat
5.58943647 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
5.71425411 Czech
5.83219513 Bosnian
6.28487072 Slovak
6.53079628 Moldavian_North
8.70864513 German
8.78604006 Serb
9.58056888 Moldavian_Center
9.63002077 Bavarian_German
10.15270900 Dutch
10.46689543 Sorb_Lusatia
11.53324326 German_Northwest
12.47044907 Montenegrin
12.77285794 Ukrainian
13.10724609 Polish_mixed
13.50904882 French_Northeast
13.57984536 English_South
13.82315449 Swedish
13.88327771 French_North
13.98614314 English_mixed
14.03847926 Danish
14.13306053 PL_Warmia-Masuria
14.19300180 English_North
14.28854086 French_Northwest
14.40492277 Icelandic
14.46091283 Romanian
14.73363838 Macedonian

Target: Hungarian
Distance: 1.0110% / 1.01096769 | ADC: 0.5x RC
83.9 Slovenian
7.8 French_Northeast
7.1 Tatar_Kazan
1.2 Lipka_Tatar
03-10-2021, 04:03 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunai

I finally managed to create brand new Hungarian averages for K12b. Each regional average is based on 10 samples, specifically selected those which were the closest to their respective regional K13 averages, while the national average is based on 40 samples, and is a weighed aggregate of the 4 regional ones. Therefore please delete these:
HUN_Szekely,5.69,2.23,0.86,0.54,27.11,38.92,0.47,0 .07,3.83,1.74,18.51,0.02
Hungarians,4.10,0.70,0.00,0.00,27.00,48.40,0.30,0. 00,3.00,0.30,16.20,0.00

And add these:

Code:

Hungarian,5.69,1.19,0.59,0.21,28.09,44.65,0.65,0.04,3.31,0.24,15.16,0.02 Hungarian_Alföld,5.24,1.39,0.63,0.22,28.05,45.73,0.66,0.04,3.19,0.17,14.68,0 Hungarian_North,5.16,1.31,0.6,0.26,27.34,46.81,0.55,0.01,2.91,0.13,14.93,0 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest,6.02,0.85,0.55,0.19,28.36,44.2,0.67,0.06,3.37,0.23,15.2,0.02 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely,6.06,2.42,0.62,0.18,27.89,40.32,0.6,0,4.06,0.73,16.94,0.09

:thumb001:
03-10-2021, 04:06 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunai

Interesting results and distances for Hungarian national average according to K12b, Asiatic element is quite high:

Distance to: Hungarian
2.20977374 Slovenian
4.50063329 Croat
5.58943647 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
5.71425411 Czech
5.83219513 Bosnian
6.28487072 Slovak
6.53079628 Moldavian_North
8.70864513 German
8.78604006 Serb
9.58056888 Moldavian_Center
9.63002077 Bavarian_German
10.15270900 Dutch
10.46689543 Sorb_Lusatia
11.53324326 German_Northwest
12.47044907 Montenegrin
12.77285794 Ukrainian
13.10724609 Polish_mixed
13.50904882 French_Northeast
13.57984536 English_South
13.82315449 Swedish
13.88327771 French_North
13.98614314 English_mixed
14.03847926 Danish
14.13306053 PL_Warmia-Masuria
14.19300180 English_North
14.28854086 French_Northwest
14.40492277 Icelandic
14.46091283 Romanian
14.73363838 Macedonian

Target: Hungarian
Distance: 1.0110% / 1.01096769 | ADC: 0.5x RC
83.9 Slovenian
7.8 French_Northeast
7.1 Tatar_Kazan
1.2 Lipka_Tatar

Bloggen and Turul Karom style Türkic nation :D
03-10-2021, 04:12 PM
Dunai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Bloggen and Turul Karom style Türkic nation :D

This calculator definitely does capture a strong Turkic substratum in Modern Hungarians, unlike K13, in this case I do wonder which is more reliable.

K13
Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.7080% / 0.70799160 | ADC: 0.5x RC
35.4 Croat_North
25.7 Slovenian
23.7 Csángó-Ceangău
8.8 Austrian
6.4 Croat_West
03-10-2021, 04:14 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunai

This calculator definitely does capture a strong Turkic substratum in Modern Hungarians, unlike K13, in this case I do wonder which is more reliable.

K13
Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.7080% / 0.70799160 | ADC: 0.5x RC
35.4 Croat_North
25.7 Slovenian
23.7 Csángó-Ceangău
8.8 Austrian
6.4 Croat_West

Well, 8% Tatar is probably equivalent to 24% Csango.
03-10-2021, 04:15 PM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunai

This calculator definitely does capture a strong Turkic substratum in Modern Hungarians, unlike K13, in this case I do wonder which is more reliable.

K13
Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.7080% / 0.70799160 | ADC: 0.5x RC
35.4 Croat_North
25.7 Slovenian
23.7 Csángó-Ceangău
8.8 Austrian
6.4 Croat_West

Well Csango have lot of mongoloid compared to rest of people in wider region.
03-10-2021, 04:21 PM
Dunai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Well, 8% Tatar is probably equivalent to 24% Csango.

Could be true, if I take out Hungarians from Transylvania, who are the closest to Csángós, this is what they get on K13:
Target: Csángó-Ceangău
Distance: 0.9087% / 0.90874540 | ADC: 0.5x RC
52.1 Hungarian_Alföld
26.0 Romania_Moldavia_North
13.0 Swiss_French
8.9 Crimean_Tatar
03-10-2021, 04:22 PM
Peterski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Well, 8% Tatar is probably equivalent to 24% Csango.

Remove Csango from the reference populations, run again, and see what replaces them.
03-10-2021, 04:25 PM
Dunai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterski

Remove Csango from the reference populations, run again, and see what replaces them.

Okay, so it seems Csángó reference doesn't replace Tatars, because this is how Hungarian average looks like on K13 if all Hungarian-like references are removed:

Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.2402% / 0.24020629 | ADC: 0.25x RC
64.4 Croat_North
23.2 Croat_West
5.3 Afrikaner
5.3 Austrian
1.7 Shors
0.1 Karakalpak

Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.9592% / 0.95924017 | ADC: 0.5x RC
67.2 Croat_North
25.5 Croat_West
7.3 Afrikaner
03-10-2021, 04:28 PM
Peterski

But now try after removing just Csango, not all Hungarian-like references.

Also I would recommend No Dist Col if you are checking Hungarian origins.

Using ADC 0.25x is not good for checking deeper ancestry, only for recent.

=====

Try again also with all Hungarian-like references removed, but No Dist Col.
03-10-2021, 04:33 PM
Peterski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunai

(...)
1.7 Shors
0.1 Karakalpak

TURAN STRONK

BTW, Northern Croats probably also have some Turan, so this 64.4% Croat_North is hiding additional Turan within it, because you used ADC.
03-10-2021, 04:39 PM
Dunai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterski

But now try after removing just Csango, not all Hungarian-like references.

Also I would recommend No Dist Col if you are checking Hungarian origins.

Using ADC 0.25x is not good for checking deeper ancestry, only for recent.

=====

Try again also with all Hungarian-like references removed, but No Dist Col.

Well, here you go, but I don't see how this helps, usually these calculators work best when there is a 1 distance at least:
Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.0021% / 0.00213828
3.4 Belarusian_Minsk
2.7 Romania_Crisana
2.6 Russian_Southwest
2.5 Latvian
2.5 Slovenian
2.3 Belorussian
2.3 South_Polish
2.2 Sorb_Lusatia
2.1 Moldova_Ukrainian
1.9 Czech
1.9 Lithuanian
1.8 Croat_West
1.7 Romania_Oltenia
1.7 Ukrainian
1.7 Ukrainian_Belgorod
1.6 Estonian
1.5 Serb_central
1.4 Bulgaria_Southcentral
1.4 Moldova_Centre
1.4 Polish_Masuria
1.3 Italian_Trentino
1.3 Russian_Kargopol
1.2 Albanian
1.2 Croat_South
1.2 Greek_Northern-Thrace
1.2 Pomak_Bulgaria
1.1 Serb_north
1.1 Swedish
1.1 Ukrainian_Galicia
1.0 Albanian_Tosk
1.0 Bosniak
1.0 English_Midlands
1.0 Macedonian_North
1.0 North_German
1.0 Southwest_Finnish
0.9 Croat_North
0.9 Denmark
0.9 Greek_Western-Thrace
0.9 Romania_Banat
0.9 Romania_Wallachia
0.9 Serb
0.9 Swiss_German2
0.9 Welsh
0.8 Croat
0.8 Croat_East
0.8 Finnish
0.8 Irish_Connacht
0.8 Polish
0.8 Scottish
0.8 Ukrainian_Carpathian
0.7 Erzya_Mordovian
0.7 Flemish
0.7 German_East
0.7 Greek_West
0.7 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.7 Italian_Liguria
0.7 Serb_south
0.7 Slovak
0.7 Sweden_Götaland
0.7 Sweden_Svealand_East
0.6 Austrian
0.6 Macedonian
0.6 Macedonian_South
0.6 Moldova_North
0.6 Romania_Moldavia_North
0.6 Sweden_Svealand_West
0.6 Swiss_German
0.5 German_West
0.5 Icelandic
0.5 Italian_Lombardy
0.5 Romania_Maramures
0.5 Romania_Muntenia
0.5 Russian_average
0.5 Russian_Pinega
0.5 Russian_Smolensk
0.5 Spanish_Andalucia
0.5 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.4 Bosniak_Sandzak
0.4 East_Finnish
0.4 France_south
0.4 German
0.4 Italian_Sardinia
0.4 Moldova_average
0.4 Romania_Dobruja
0.4 Romania_Transylvania
0.4 Swiss_French
0.4 Swiss-Italian2
0.3 Dutch_North
0.3 English_Southeast
0.3 France_Provence
0.3 French
0.3 French_Basque
0.3 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.3 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
0.3 Greek_Istanbul
0.3 Italian_Veneto
0.3 Orcadian
0.3 Russian_Kostroma
0.3 Southwest_French
0.3 Torbesh_average
0.2 Albanian_Gheg
0.2 Balkan_Gypsy
0.2 Belgian
0.2 Bulgaria_Southwestern
0.2 Dutch
0.2 France_north-west
0.2 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
0.2 Irish
0.2 Norway_South_Central
0.2 Spanish_Cantabria
0.2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.2 Spanish_Valencia
0.2 Swiss_Italian
0.2 Turk_Deliorman
0.2 Turk_Makedonya
0.1 Afrikaner
0.1 Chuvash
0.1 Dai
0.1 France_Central
0.1 France_Corsica
0.1 France_south-west
0.1 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
0.1 Greek_North_Aegean
0.1 Greek_Thessaly
0.1 Irish_Munster
0.1 Italian_Calabria
0.1 Italian_Emilia
0.1 Italian_Friuli_VG
0.1 Italian_Jewish
0.1 Lahu
0.1 Moldova_Jewish
0.1 Moldova_South
0.1 Moldova_South_Gagauzia
0.1 North-Swedish
0.1 Norwegian
0.1 Pennsylvania_Dutch
0.1 Pomak_Greece
0.1 Romania_average
0.1 Romania_Moldavia_South
0.1 Turk_Trakya
0.1 Turkmen
0.1 Uygur
0.1 Yagnobi
03-10-2021, 05:00 PM
Peterski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunai

Well, here you go, but I don't see how this helps, usually these calculators work best when there is a 1 distance at least:
Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.0021% / 0.00213828
3.4 Belarusian_Minsk
2.7 Romania_Crisana
2.6 Russian_Southwest
2.5 Latvian
2.5 Slovenian
2.3 Belorussian
2.3 South_Polish
2.2 Sorb_Lusatia
2.1 Moldova_Ukrainian
1.9 Czech
1.9 Lithuanian
1.8 Croat_West
1.7 Romania_Oltenia
1.7 Ukrainian
1.7 Ukrainian_Belgorod
1.6 Estonian
1.5 Serb_central
1.4 Bulgaria_Southcentral
1.4 Moldova_Centre
1.4 Polish_Masuria
1.3 Italian_Trentino
1.3 Russian_Kargopol
1.2 Albanian
1.2 Croat_South
1.2 Greek_Northern-Thrace
1.2 Pomak_Bulgaria
1.1 Serb_north
1.1 Swedish
1.1 Ukrainian_Galicia
1.0 Albanian_Tosk
1.0 Bosniak
1.0 English_Midlands
1.0 Macedonian_North
1.0 North_German
1.0 Southwest_Finnish
0.9 Croat_North
0.9 Denmark
0.9 Greek_Western-Thrace
0.9 Romania_Banat
0.9 Romania_Wallachia
0.9 Serb
0.9 Swiss_German2
0.9 Welsh
0.8 Croat
0.8 Croat_East
0.8 Finnish
0.8 Irish_Connacht
0.8 Polish
0.8 Scottish
0.8 Ukrainian_Carpathian
0.7 Erzya_Mordovian
0.7 Flemish
0.7 German_East
0.7 Greek_West
0.7 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.7 Italian_Liguria
0.7 Serb_south
0.7 Slovak
0.7 Sweden_Götaland
0.7 Sweden_Svealand_East
0.6 Austrian
0.6 Macedonian
0.6 Macedonian_South
0.6 Moldova_North
0.6 Romania_Moldavia_North
0.6 Sweden_Svealand_West
0.6 Swiss_German
0.5 German_West
0.5 Icelandic
0.5 Italian_Lombardy
0.5 Romania_Maramures
0.5 Romania_Muntenia
0.5 Russian_average
0.5 Russian_Pinega
0.5 Russian_Smolensk
0.5 Spanish_Andalucia
0.5 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.4 Bosniak_Sandzak
0.4 East_Finnish
0.4 France_south
0.4 German
0.4 Italian_Sardinia
0.4 Moldova_average
0.4 Romania_Dobruja
0.4 Romania_Transylvania
0.4 Swiss_French
0.4 Swiss-Italian2
0.3 Dutch_North
0.3 English_Southeast
0.3 France_Provence
0.3 French
0.3 French_Basque
0.3 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.3 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
0.3 Greek_Istanbul
0.3 Italian_Veneto
0.3 Orcadian
0.3 Russian_Kostroma
0.3 Southwest_French
0.3 Torbesh_average
0.2 Albanian_Gheg
0.2 Balkan_Gypsy
0.2 Belgian
0.2 Bulgaria_Southwestern
0.2 Dutch
0.2 France_north-west
0.2 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
0.2 Irish
0.2 Norway_South_Central
0.2 Spanish_Cantabria
0.2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.2 Spanish_Valencia
0.2 Swiss_Italian
0.2 Turk_Deliorman
0.2 Turk_Makedonya
0.1 Afrikaner
0.1 Chuvash
0.1 Dai
0.1 France_Central
0.1 France_Corsica
0.1 France_south-west
0.1 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
0.1 Greek_North_Aegean
0.1 Greek_Thessaly
0.1 Irish_Munster
0.1 Italian_Calabria
0.1 Italian_Emilia
0.1 Italian_Friuli_VG
0.1 Italian_Jewish
0.1 Lahu
0.1 Moldova_Jewish
0.1 Moldova_South
0.1 Moldova_South_Gagauzia
0.1 North-Swedish
0.1 Norwegian
0.1 Pennsylvania_Dutch
0.1 Pomak_Greece
0.1 Romania_average
0.1 Romania_Moldavia_South
0.1 Turk_Trakya
0.1 Turkmen
0.1 Uygur
0.1 Yagnobi

But why the fuck is this such a loooooong result ???

It seems nMonte doesn't work well with low-K calcs.
03-10-2021, 05:04 PM
Leto

And Chris is still Hungarian in name only!.. xD

Distance to: Chris(Hungarian)
3.53788072 Serb
3.89263407 Moldavian_Center
4.40663137 Montenegrin
5.62415327 Romanian
5.90758834 Macedonian
5.98466373 Moldavian_North
6.30179340 Bosnian
6.90741630 Bulgarian_West
6.98818288 Moldavian_South
7.12516666 Croat

Target: Chris(Hungarian)
Distance: 2.4851% / 2.48510023 | ADC: 0.25x RC
67.0 Serb
26.6 Croat
4.8 Georgian_Mingrelian
1.6 Japanese
03-10-2021, 05:06 PM
Peterski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

And Chris is still Hungarian in name only!.. xD

Distance to: Chris(Hungarian)
3.53788072 Serb
3.89263407 Moldavian_Center
4.40663137 Montenegrin
5.62415327 Romanian
5.90758834 Macedonian
5.98466373 Moldavian_North
6.30179340 Bosnian
6.90741630 Bulgarian_West
6.98818288 Moldavian_South
7.12516666 Croat

Target: Chris(Hungarian)
Distance: 2.4851% / 2.48510023 | ADC: 0.25x RC
67.0 Serb
26.6 Croat
4.8 Georgian_Mingrelian
1.6 Japanese

Maybe he is just a hung Aryan.
03-10-2021, 05:55 PM
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

And Chris is still Hungarian in name only!.. xD

Distance to: Chris(Hungarian)
3.53788072 Serb
3.89263407 Moldavian_Center
4.40663137 Montenegrin
5.62415327 Romanian
5.90758834 Macedonian
5.98466373 Moldavian_North
6.30179340 Bosnian
6.90741630 Bulgarian_West
6.98818288 Moldavian_South
7.12516666 Croat

Target: Chris(Hungarian)
Distance: 2.4851% / 2.48510023 | ADC: 0.25x RC
67.0 Serb
26.6 Croat
4.8 Georgian_Mingrelian
1.6 Japanese

Do you remember other Hungarian with such Serbian-like results? And if Chris is from southern Hungary bordering Serbia?
03-10-2021, 05:57 PM
Dunai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterski

But why the fuck is this such a loooooong result ???

It seems nMonte doesn't work well with low-K calcs.

It seems to be the case with nations who are very heterogenous, like Hungarians are, since I tried it at 0 value with several more homogenous nations, including Polish, and surprisingly they get rather few population references.
03-10-2021, 06:00 PM
Scandal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas

Do you remember other Hungarian with such Serbian-like results? And if Chris is from southern Hungary bordering Serbia?

He is 1/2 Hungarian from Southeast Hungary and 1/2 Székely-Hungarian from Romania. I also remember 23andme showed he's 5% Ashkenazi or so.

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