Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in southern Albania

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Originally Posted by Flea

There is no proof of I2-DIN being slav,I2-DIN is a native european haplogroup ,it one of the original haplo of HG,only albanians on TA believe its a slavic haplogroup.
The slavic look in balkans is rare especially on zones were I2-DIN is the highest were the slavic look its non-existent.

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There is some proof now. On the recent study conducted there wasn't any I2a-Din found in the Balkans, only I2a2, R1b, R1a(Iranic), J2b2, G2a and E1b-L618(father of E-V13) was found. Every body that is mentally sane believes that I2a-Din is Slavic, the non-Slavic theory is an old, out-dated theory with no actual evidence to back it up. Although it was a HG haplogroup and it was found in north-western Europe

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

There is some proof now. On the recent study conducted there wasn't any I2a-Din found in the Balkans, only I2a2, R1b, R1a(Iranic), J2b2, G2a and E1b-L618(father of E-V13) was found. Every body that is mentally sane believes that I2a-Din is Slavic, the non-Slavic theory is an old, out-dated theory with no actual evidence to back it up. Although it was a HG haplogroup and it was found in north-western Europe

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It's most likely from Ukraine due to it's high diversity there.

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Originally Posted by Big Boss

I2-Din is nowhere found in Balkan Ancient samples. The only I2 found is I2a2 and barely exists anymore in Balkans, which is common in Northwest Germany, but even that is not the same subclade.

I2a2

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/cont...ogroup-I2b.gif

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Its like arguing that because nowadays I2A2 and G are rare in balkans ,that they were never a balkan haplogroup.Its just a matter of when the test was done.Its not as simple as getting a few samples and coming to conclussion that there were no I2A1 in balkans.

and j2b2 is neolitic and has nothing to do with illyrians.

The j2b2 if i remember well was like 15% HG and 20% INDO-EUROPEANS,no europeans score this low nowadays ,that guy was recent immigrant in a pool of hunter-gatherers
There was no EV13 in that study,which is the most common gheg haplo, but you seem you albanians forgot to point this out.
What the study shows is that balkans and Europe was made of mainly Hunter Gatherers haplogruops like I and G ,with a few farming haplos like J.

That there were no I2a1 in the study is no problem in itself,the samples were small and HG were always on the move and traveling in packs.
HG unlike neolitic farmers were moving frequently,hence the small sample of like 10 people of which a few didnt even had Y-DNA doesnt prove a thing,finding j2b2 is nothing uncommon,its an neolitic farmers haplo,

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Originally Posted by Flea

Its like arguing that because nowadays I2A2 and G are rare in balkans ,that they were never a balkan haplogroup.Its just a matter of when the test was done.Its not as simple as getting a few samples and coming to conclussion that there were no I2A1 in balkans.

and j2b2 is neolitic and has nothing to do with illyrians.
There was no EV13 in that study,which is the most common gheg haplo, but you seem you albanians forgot to point this out.
What the study shows is that balkans and Europe was made of mainly Hunter Gatherers haplogruops like I and G ,with a few farming haplos like J.

That there were no I2a1 in the study is no problem in itself,the samples were small and HG were always on the move and traveling in packs.
HG unlike neolitic farmers were moving frequently,hence the small sample of like 10 people of which a few didnt even had Y-DNA doesnt prove a thing,finding j2b2 is nothing uncommon,its an neolitic farmers haplo,

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The father of E-V13 was found which could mean that E-V13 was present there later on. J2b2 was found from a proto-Illyrian sample which means that it does have something to do with Illyrians also it's probably not a Neolithic haplogroup but in fact it could of been an Indo-European haplogroup as the proto-Illyrian with it was 30% Steppe admixed and had a typical Steppe Mtdna. The results were released this month. So far we can conclude that there wasn't any I2a1b in the Balkans as it wasn't found

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Originally Posted by Flea

.The j2b2 if i remember well was like 15% HG and 20% INDO-EUROPEANS,no europeans score this low nowadays ,that guy was recent immigrant in a pool of hunter-gatherers
\,

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He was 15% Eastern Hunter-Gatherer not 15% Hunter-Gatherer in general. The Balkans at that time was mainly G2a and this is evident due to the fact that it was found in massive amounts in Bulgaria and Serbia

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

The father of E-V13 was found which could mean that E-V13 was present there later on. J2b2 was found from a proto-Illyrian sample which means that it does have something to do with Illyrians also it's probably not a Neolithic haplogroup but in fact it could of been an Indo-European haplogroup as the proto-Illyrian with it was 30% Steppe admixed and had a typical Steppe Mtdna. The results were released this month. So far we can conclude that there wasn't any I2a1b in the Balkans as it wasn't found

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You dont understand.Let me put this straight to you,during the samples test majority by far were hunter gatherer haplos like I and G ,but nowadays albanians are mostly E and J very much unlike their neighbours .
Who says that sample is proto-illyrian?
J2b2 is farmer haplogroup,it didnt come with indo-europeans,this is unanymous opinion of anthrpologists.
> So far we can conclude that there wasn't any I2a1b in the Balkans as it wasn't found
Few samples dont conclude anything,if they did test with 1 less sample HIGH chance there wouldnt have been any EV13 or J2B2 in the study either and just full HG haplos.
Also,were was the EV13?i didnt see it on the bronze age balkans.

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

He was 15% Eastern Hunter-Gatherer not 15% Hunter-Gatherer in general. The Balkans at that time was mainly G2a and this is evident due to the fact that it was found in massive amounts in Bulgaria and Serbia

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As i said previously hunter gatheres were always on the move and they were very few compared to farmers.
The fact that the j2b2 scored 15% ehg means even more that he was a recent addition in Europe..and how can you link a J2B2 sample from that time with illyrians ?!

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Originally Posted by Flea

As i said previously hunter gatheres were always on the move and they were very few compared to farmers.
The fact that the j2b2 scored 15% ehg means even more that he was a recent addition in Europe..and how can you link a J2B2 sample from that time with illyrians ?!

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Which means his WHG might peak even higher. Even more Ancient J2b2 samples have been found in Sardinia.

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Originally Posted by Flea

You dont understand.Let me put this straight to you,during the samples test majority by far were hunter gatherer haplos like I and G ,but nowadays albanians are mostly E and J very much unlike their neighbours .
Who says that sample is proto-illyrian?
J2b2 is farmer haplogroup,it didnt come with indo-europeans,this is unanymous opinion of anthrpologists.
> So far we can conclude that there wasn't any I2a1b in the Balkans as it wasn't found
Few samples dont conclude anything,if they did test with 1 less sample HIGH chance there wouldnt have been any EV13 or J2B2 in the study either and just full HG haplos.
Also,were was the EV13?i didnt see it on the bronze age balkans.

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Dude G2a is the original Neolithic farmer haplogroup, it has nothing to do with Hunter-Gatherers. He was proto-Illyrian as the age of the sample coincides with the arrival of the Illyrians into the Balkans. I just explained to you about the fact that the father clade of E-V13 was found

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Originally Posted by Big Boss

Which means his WHG might peak even higher. Even more Ancient J2b2 samples have been found in Sardinia.

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At 15% EHG and something like 20% indo-european it means theres about 65% to spread between WHG and farmers,very low and unusual for that period,obvious recent import and nothing to do with illyrians and just partly european.