South Slavic & neighbours gedmatch results - vol.2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

There was no chakavian speakers in any corner of Bosnia and Herzegovina in the last 150 years since exist researches of linguists. Chakavians once lived only in most western part of Bosnia west of Sana river. They disappeared in Ottoman invasion in 16th century.
Neoshtokavian ikavian Muslim speakers in Cazinska Krajina are most likely descendants of settlers from central Bosnia in 16th and 17th century.

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There were čakavian muslims in pockets on north Bosnia until two generations ago, I had that confirmed by person from there and I had no idea about it.
His grandfather was from Novi Grad across Dvor na Uni.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnnyP

So from these kits thats average, i already said these kits are from all regions , Nortwest kits is 24 Baltic , but again you posted Nortwest with 22 Baltic.It seems Central Macedonia have lowest Baltic 3 kits with 18 Baltic, that Stip result with 25 Baltic have also 25 East Med and 19.65 West Med and very low NAtlantic 16.So i would say highest peak of Baltic would be Nortwest and Norteast , i think there is two with 23 and 24 Baltic from Northest so again is not high.I didnt see yet full Macedonian kit with more than 25 Baltic.

Why doesnt make sense from historical and linguistic point of view?
Edit : The Macedonians were occupied and not exterminated through history i dont get your point.

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The point is that the is always a cline with neighbours, if there is lack of it it is usually due to lack of samples.
There was no hard wall between south Serbia and north of Macedonia historically and linguistically they are similar.
So between them I except few % difference and nothing drastic, than Baltic going to lower values as you say moving south towards Greece or west towards Albania.

But good job, keep up your work :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

There were čakavian muslims in pockets on north Bosnia until two generations ago, I had that confirmed by person from there and I had no idea about it.
His grandfather was from Novi Grad across Dvor na Uni.

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That person probably don't know what is chakavian. He probably confused šćakavian isogloss with chakavian. Linguists never recorder any chakavian speech in BiH.

He is probably like one Serb from Vrlika are who claim that his ancestors spoke chakavian. He confused adriatisms which existed in whole Dalmatia with chakavian. Village of his ancestors (Maovice) was neoshtokavian ikavian, it's well known. Chakavian speech is not recorded in any corner of Dalmatian hinterland same as in BiH.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

That person probably don't know what is chakavian. He probably confused šćakavian isogloss with chakavian. Linguists never recoeder any chakavian speech in BiH.

He is probably like one Serb from Vrlika are who claim that his ancestors spoke chakavian. He confused adriatisms which existed in whole Dalmatia with chakavian. Village of his ancestors (Maovice) was neoshtokavian ikavian, it's well known. Chakavian speech is not recorded in any corner of Dalmatian hinterland same as in BiH.

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Now, but in the past it was different. Nevertheless, let's stay on topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

The point is that the is always a cline with neighbours, if there is lack of it it is usually due to lack of samples.
There was no hard wall between south Serbia and north of Macedonia hitorically and linguistically they are similar.
So between them I except few % difference and nothing drastic, than Baltic going to lower values as you say moving south towards Greece or west towards Albania.

But good job, keep up your work :)

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But i would say again that you are wrong, any similarities with Serbs is because we lived under their occupation, so my town Kumanovo yeah , there is for sure 10% Serbian population which is assimilated with Macedonians because is close to Serbo-Macedonian border,but even that North gedmatch results from Macedonia are not similar to SouthSerbs, even Kumanovo reference from Eurogenes K13 (Macedonian_North) Full Macedonian, have nothing with Serbs in closest populations.
But again i think results saying something different ,but again thats just your opinion, everyone have their own opinion.Cheers ! :thumb001:

Code:

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Distance to:        Macedonian_North
3.15924042        Macedonian_Southwest
3.39344957        Macedonian_Central
4.22602650        Macedonian_East
4.40167014        Bulgarian
4.55782843        Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
4.80726533        Macedonian_Northwest
4.84362468        Pomak_Nevrokopi
4.92740106        North_Macedonian
5.03795593        Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
5.07430783        Bulgarian_Pazardzhik
5.10643711        Macedonia_South
5.16157922        Romanian_Muntenia
5.29154095        Macedonian
5.44455691        Bulgarian_Gabrovo
5.45338427        Bulgarian_Central
5.51574111        Bulgarian_North-Rhodope
5.53364256        Greek_Northern-Thrace
5.57235139        Bulgarian_Serres
5.59035777        Greek_Thessaloniki
5.68591242        Vlach_North-Macedonia

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No need to get upset, I tought Croats had nothing to do with Serbs also when we tought old Eurogenes averages and some academic papers were fully reliable, turns out I was wrong.
Always opened to learning new things and adjusting opinion to new facts. So I trust what you say, ofcourse.

Let's keep collecting samples and improving our knowledge! :)

Lelas. From Kosore (Vrlika), Dalmatia.

There's a gedcom assigned to the kit so i was able to check out the surnames. This woman seems to have a Croatian father and a Serbian mother (the village was mixed):

Spoiler!

Kit A096853

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.19
2 North_Atlantic 26.85
3 West_Med 18.41
4 East_Med 17.87
5 West_Asian 4.77
6 Red_Sea 1.25
7 Amerindian 0.93
8 East_Asian 0.82
9 Siberian 0.61
10 Northeast_African 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.31
2 Romanian 7.05
3 Bulgarian 8.69
4 Moldavian 9.93
5 Hungarian 10.37
6 Croatian 11.05
7 Austrian 13.02
8 East_German 14.4
9 Greek_Thessaly 15.69
10 North_Italian 16.68
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.41
12 West_German 17.47
13 South_Polish 17.58
14 French 17.97
15 Ukrainian 18.21
16 Tuscan 18.4
17 South_Dutch 18.81
18 Portuguese 19.64
19 Spanish_Galicia 19.99
20 Spanish_Cataluna 20.65

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.3% Tuscan + 43.7% Estonian_Polish @ 3.58
2 61.2% Tuscan + 38.8% Lithuanian @ 3.77
3 56.9% Tuscan + 43.1% Belorussian @ 3.79
4 50.3% Ukrainian + 49.7% Tuscan @ 3.86
5 54.4% Tuscan + 45.6% Southwest_Russian @ 4.04
6 56.2% Tuscan + 43.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 4.24
7 55.4% Ukrainian + 44.6% West_Sicilian @ 4.46
8 55.5% West_Sicilian + 44.5% Estonian @ 4.46
9 53.6% Tuscan + 46.4% Polish @ 4.51
10 63.9% Croatian + 36.1% Tuscan @ 4.51
11 51.6% Polish + 48.4% West_Sicilian @ 4.61
12 51.2% South_Polish + 48.8% Tuscan @ 4.61
13 56.3% South_Polish + 43.7% West_Sicilian @ 4.62
14 51.3% West_Sicilian + 48.7% Estonian_Polish @ 4.63
15 51.9% West_Sicilian + 48.1% Belorussian @ 4.67
16 60.5% Tuscan + 39.5% Estonian @ 4.67
17 57.1% North_Italian + 42.9% Southwest_Russian @ 4.68
18 55.2% Tuscan + 44.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.68
19 94% Serbian + 6% Sardinian @ 4.71
20 51.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 48.5% Tuscan @ 4.76

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CommonSense

Lelas. From Kosore (Vrlika), Dalmatia.

There's a gedcom assigned to the kit so i was able to check out the surnames. This woman seems to have a Croatian father and a Serbian mother (the village was mixed):

Spoiler!

Kit A096853

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.19
2 North_Atlantic 26.85
3 West_Med 18.41
4 East_Med 17.87
5 West_Asian 4.77
6 Red_Sea 1.25
7 Amerindian 0.93
8 East_Asian 0.82
9 Siberian 0.61
10 Northeast_African 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.31
2 Romanian 7.05
3 Bulgarian 8.69
4 Moldavian 9.93
5 Hungarian 10.37
6 Croatian 11.05
7 Austrian 13.02
8 East_German 14.4
9 Greek_Thessaly 15.69
10 North_Italian 16.68
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.41
12 West_German 17.47
13 South_Polish 17.58
14 French 17.97
15 Ukrainian 18.21
16 Tuscan 18.4
17 South_Dutch 18.81
18 Portuguese 19.64
19 Spanish_Galicia 19.99
20 Spanish_Cataluna 20.65

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.3% Tuscan + 43.7% Estonian_Polish @ 3.58
2 61.2% Tuscan + 38.8% Lithuanian @ 3.77
3 56.9% Tuscan + 43.1% Belorussian @ 3.79
4 50.3% Ukrainian + 49.7% Tuscan @ 3.86
5 54.4% Tuscan + 45.6% Southwest_Russian @ 4.04
6 56.2% Tuscan + 43.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 4.24
7 55.4% Ukrainian + 44.6% West_Sicilian @ 4.46
8 55.5% West_Sicilian + 44.5% Estonian @ 4.46
9 53.6% Tuscan + 46.4% Polish @ 4.51
10 63.9% Croatian + 36.1% Tuscan @ 4.51
11 51.6% Polish + 48.4% West_Sicilian @ 4.61
12 51.2% South_Polish + 48.8% Tuscan @ 4.61
13 56.3% South_Polish + 43.7% West_Sicilian @ 4.62
14 51.3% West_Sicilian + 48.7% Estonian_Polish @ 4.63
15 51.9% West_Sicilian + 48.1% Belorussian @ 4.67
16 60.5% Tuscan + 39.5% Estonian @ 4.67
17 57.1% North_Italian + 42.9% Southwest_Russian @ 4.68
18 55.2% Tuscan + 44.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.68
19 94% Serbian + 6% Sardinian @ 4.71
20 51.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 48.5% Tuscan @ 4.76

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Croatian father for sure https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Lelas/

Serbian surnames from Kosore are Bodrožić, Arnaut, Ivančić, Knez, Medić, Mišina and Utržen.

In Kosore in 1991 Croatians were 67% and Serbs 33%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

Croatian father for sure https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Lelas/

Serbian surnames from Kosore are Bodrožić, Arnaut, Ivančić, Knez, Medić, Mišina and Utržen.

In Kosore in 1991 Croatians were 67% and Serbs 33%.

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Yes, her mom is from the same village and her surname is Arnaut. On poreklo's webpage for that village there is complete list of all the surnames that were present there, along with the ethnicity they belonged to.

Another kit with a gedcom.

Đorđević - three grandparents from Šumadija and one from the Moravica district (in western Serbia):

Spoiler!

Kit H111370

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.83
2 North_Atlantic 24.57
3 West_Med 19.59
4 East_Med 14.75
5 West_Asian 8.12
6 Red_Sea 1.65
7 Siberian 1.35
8 Amerindian 0.73
9 Oceanian 0.41

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.68
2 Romanian 6.01
3 Moldavian 7.25
4 Bulgarian 7.68
5 Croatian 9.5
6 Hungarian 10.35
7 Austrian 13.25
8 East_German 14.47
9 Greek_Thessaly 15.68
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.93
11 South_Polish 16.79
12 Ukrainian 17.07
13 North_Italian 17.74
14 West_German 18.49
15 French 19.24
16 Tuscan 19.4
17 South_Dutch 19.8
18 Polish 20.21
19 Southwest_Russian 20.69
20 Portuguese 21.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.3% Moldavian + 14.7% Sardinian @ 2.72
2 74.5% Moldavian + 25.5% Tuscan @ 3.09
3 72.9% Moldavian + 27.1% North_Italian @ 3.22
4 57.7% Ukrainian + 42.3% West_Sicilian @ 3.24
5 71.9% Croatian + 28.1% West_Sicilian @ 3.26
6 63.2% Croatian + 36.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.27
7 75.1% Croatian + 24.9% South_Italian @ 3.44
8 68.3% Croatian + 31.7% Tuscan @ 3.46
9 53.3% Ukrainian + 46.7% Tuscan @ 3.49
10 52.2% Greek_Thessaly + 47.8% Ukrainian @ 3.6
11 71.9% Croatian + 28.1% Central_Greek @ 3.63
12 59.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 40.5% West_Sicilian @ 3.65
13 78.4% Moldavian + 21.6% West_Sicilian @ 3.65
14 56.5% Bulgarian + 43.5% Croatian @ 3.65
15 78.4% Croatian + 21.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.65
16 73% Croatian + 27% East_Sicilian @ 3.7
17 55.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 44.9% Tuscan @ 3.74
18 65% Romanian + 35% Croatian @ 3.74
19 61.6% Ukrainian + 38.4% South_Italian @ 3.77
20 51.7% Tuscan + 48.3% Southwest_Russian @ 3.8