Map of Europe showing WHG, Baltic HG, Yamnaya and Neolithic ancestry

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Originally Posted by Leto

Is that the reason why you dropped Celtic identity altogether? I thought it was important for an authentic Irish identity (not for those who would call a Bangladeshi living in Ireland Irish).

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Do you mean me personally? I'd rather use the term Gaelic. I'm not really a believer pan-Celticity. I think the Celts were obviously quite different and I do think the term was just used by Romans to call many different groups Celtic. I've an open mind though and I've changed my thoughts many times on the subject. Definitely with genetics I'm not hung up on whether a population is Celtic or not. I think the Irish are Gaels though in culture and ethnicity because Gaelic just describes the people who speak or spoke a Gaelic language. It is very specific whereas Celtic is so broad.

I'm always looking forward to more studies that sheds some more light on the topic.

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Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley

Do you mean me personally? I'd rather use the term Gaelic. I'm not really a believer pan-Celticity. I think the Celts were obviously quite different and I do think the term was just used by Romans to call many different groups Celtic. I've an open mind though and I've changed my thoughts many times on the subject. Definitely with genetics I'm not hung up on whether a population is Celtic or not. I think the Irish are Gaels though in culture and ethnicity because Gaelic just describes the people who speak or spoke a Gaelic language. It is very specific whereas Celtic is so broad.

I'm always looking forward to more studies that sheds some more light on the topic.

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I see. You're probably right. The thing is that Celts are long gone in continental Europe, except for Brittany. Switzerland has some remnants of Celticity though, as far as I know. But they're Germanic and Romance speakers anyway.

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

https://i.imgur.com/4kDPOll.jpg

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CMs were admixed by EHG (let say at least some 8%) what effects in WHG.
Then this admixed WHGeans were autosomally in 90% replaced by farmerian DNA.
Then this was in 90% replaced by Indoeuropeans stage 1.
Then this was replaced in 50% by Indoeuropeans stage 2.
Then these were in different degrees replaced and admixed by other Indoeuropeans couple of times.

But here are people who still argue, that original C&I-folks autosomal is somehow still relevant in the population... :picard2:

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Originally Posted by Leto

I see. You're probably right. The thing is that Celts are long gone in continental Europe, except for Brittany. Switzerland has some remnants of Celticity though, as far as I know. But they're Germanic and Romance speakers anyway.

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Yes Brittany is interesting but appears to have more affinity with the Insular Celts i.e. Cornish and Welsh and their language is closest to Cornish. Genetic studies as well back that link up with the Insular Celts. At the moment there is just not enough information out there on ancient populations like the Celts. No recent studies have been published on the topic. It would be great if there are some surprises in the studies but from what I can see people like the Irish owe a lot of their genetics to Bronze Age populations. It makes sense that some Continental Celts came in or possibly Celts that came to Britain and then went on to Ireland. I'd love to see something published this year but Covid has slowed everything down.

Target: Kaspias_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.3375% / 0.02337542
33.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
28.2 TUR_Barcin_N
12.6 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
8.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
8.0 Levant_PPNB
1.0 WHG

Target: Kaspias_scaled
Distance: 2.1118% / 0.02111752
41.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
31.8 TUR_Barcin_N
9.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
9.2 Levant_PPNB
4.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.4 Baltic_LVA_HG

Target: Kaspias_mom_subtracted
Distance: 3.0139% / 0.03013862
45.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
35.0 TUR_Barcin_N
12.4 Levant_PPNB
7.4 Baltic_LVA_HG

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Originally Posted by Rethel

C&I-folks

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who?

Target: VangosH_scaled
Distance: 3.7405% / 0.03740491 | ADC: 0.25x RC
65.0 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
30.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.6 Baltic_LVA_HG

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

who?

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C1-people and I-people, the original, pre-WHG, cromagnon-autosomal bearers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rethel

CMs were admixed by EHG (let say at least some 8%) what effects in WHG.
Then this admixed WHGeans were autosomally in 90% replaced by farmerian DNA.
Then this was in 90% replaced by Indoeuropeans stage 1.
Then this was replaced in 50% by Indoeuropeans stage 2.
Then these were in different degrees replaced and admixed by other Indoeuropeans couple of times.

But here are people who still argue, that original C&I-folks autosomal is somehow still relevant in the population... :picard2:

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Almost got it all right, except the first step :D

You can't model WHG as Paleo HG + EHG but you can do it the other way with some specific ones like Afontova Gora.

The rest is more or less what really happened, different stages of various IE repeated replacements pretty much everywhere but with substantial absorbition of local farmers in the process, from the original Steppe. Bell Beaker is a mix of Yamnaya with MN/LN types, like GAC or other local farming communities, which itself had absorbed some remnants of mesolithic HG's too.

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Originally Posted by Petalpusher

except the first step

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Nope. It is correct.

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You can't model WHG as Paleo HG + EHG

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Not only can, but it is the only way to define it.
In mesolithic there were still pure CM people, pre-WHG living side by side with WHG like.