"Proto-Iranians were not Northern Europeans"

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08-31-2022, 05:48 PM
Guti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guti

Diakonoff, I.M. (1985) wrote something about how the Medes dominated the trade routes between Kurdistan and Khorasan

As the region inhabited by Parthians, Parthia first appears as a political entity in Achaemenid lists of governorates ("satrapies") under their dominion. Prior to this, the people of the region seem to have been subjects of the Medes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthia
https://www-cambridge-org.vu-nl.idm....9E9142D0A245EF

Also this:

Some of Diakonoff's articles deal with the history of eastern and central parts of Asia Minor during the 8th-6th centuries BCE, and his other works are devoted to the ancient cultures of Central Asia. In his article "Vostochnyĭ Iran do Kira" (Eastern Iran before Cyrus; see Diakonoff, 1971a), Diakonoff considered the problems of the origin and allocation of Iranian-speaking tribes in Central Asia, Afghanistan, and Eastern Iran, as well as their history in pre-Achaemenid times, based on the Avestan tradition and in the context of archeological data. According to his opinion, pre-Avestan and Avestan cultures of pre-Achaemend times should be located in Parthia, Margiana, Bactria, and Arachosia and dated to the first half of the 1st millennium BCE.

In collaboration with his brother, Mikhail Diakonoff, and Vladimir Livshits, he participated in the decipherment and study of over two thousand ostraca which were discovered during archaeological excavations at Nisa in Turkmenistan in 1948-61. As these scholars have demonstrated, the above-mentioned ostraca contain economic documents written in Parthian but in Aramaic heterographic script. Later these texts were published by Diakonoff together with V. A. Livshits (Diakonoff, 1960) and then they were edited by D. N. MacKenzie (1926-2001) in Corpus Inscriptionum Iranicarum (Diakonoff, 1976-2002).

https://iranicaonline.org/articles/d...ional-standing

The Medes predate the Parthians because the Median Empire predates the Parthian Empire. In turn Parthians themselves were for a huge part the Medes themselves, because the spoke the language of the Medes.

Parthia is a historical region located in north-eastern Iran. It was conquered and subjugated by the empire of the Medes during the 7th century BC, was incorporated into the subsequent Achaemenid Empire under Cyrus the Great in the 6th century BC, and formed part of the Hellenistic Seleucid Empire following the 4th-century-BC conquests of Alexander the Great. The region later served as the political and cultural base of the Eastern-Iranian Parni people and Arsacid dynasty, rulers of the Parthian Empire (247 BC – 224 AD). The Sasanian Empire, the last state of pre-Islamic Iran, also held the region and maintained the Seven Parthian clans as part of their feudal aristocracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthia
08-31-2022, 06:42 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babak

Which further proves assimilation. Whether we have direct ancestors or not, its all assimilation.

The point im trying to make is Iranics of today are Iranicized, unlike Turks, who have legit direct Turkic ancestry.

Iranics are no more “Iranicized” than Turks are Turkicized. About 20% of the autosomal profile of western Iranic (Kurds, Lurs, Persians etc) is steppe derived and the remainder is mostly BMAC derived.

Just check the Iron Age Hasanlu samples - they are identical to modern Kurds.
08-31-2022, 06:45 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoro

Not really. If they were just Iranicized then they would genetically be 100 % Iran-Chl which some Kurds barely have 40% according to qpadm. G25 is absurd because i heard it shows some kurds as 97% 2700 year old Hasanlu. This is absurd because no one in north W. Asia is 97% 300 year old grandparent let alone 2700 year old random person. This is one of the many proofs why G25 is a joke. Only people that are 97% someone from 2700 years ago are inbred isolated islanders.

It just proves that that the ethnogenesis of Kurds was complete in the Iron Age. Why is it ridiculous that Kurds are genetically identical to the Iron Age samples?
08-31-2022, 07:57 PM
Zoro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guti

Nope, actually the Medes predate Parthians and were the original Aryans.

There was an Aryan migration (Medes/Amadai) from Kurdistan into Khorasan area around 1000 BCE.

I was referring to the late iron age inhabitants and Arya and Aryana being Parthians and Sogdians. I Don’t have enough info on Medes

Quote:

Windfuhr identified Kurdish dialects as Parthian, albeit with a Median substratum. Windfuhr and Frye assume an eastern origin for Kurdish and consider it as related to eastern and central Iranian dialects.[23][24]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_languages

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/jtbamFv.jpg[/IMG]
08-31-2022, 07:59 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoro

I was referring to the late iron age inhabitants and Arya and Aryana being Parthians and Sogdians. I Don’t have enough info on Medes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_languages

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/jtbamFv.jpg[/IMG]

Okay, so how can Kurdish descend from Parthian if Kurds have been mentioned in the history books prior to the Parthian and even alongside the Parthians e.g Corduene. Classical Kurds and Parthians were two separate peoples.
08-31-2022, 08:01 PM
Zoro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgurd

It just proves that that the ethnogenesis of Kurds was complete in the Iron Age. Why is it ridiculous that Kurds are genetically identical to the Iron Age samples?

Not just kurds anyone from that crossroad part of the world can’t be 95% of some 2700 year old sample. It’s not only logical but qpadm analysis also supports it
08-31-2022, 08:03 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoro

Not just kurds anyone from that crossroad part of the world can’t be 95% of some 2700 year old sample. It’s not only logical but qpadm analysis also supports it

It’s not just one sample - it is multiple. If those individuals were alive today they would be indistinguishable to other Kurds and you already know this.
08-31-2022, 08:15 PM
Zoro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgurd

Okay, so how can Kurdish descend from Parthian if Kurds have been mentioned in the history books prior to the Parthian and even alongside the Parthians e.g Corduene. Classical Kurds and Parthians were two separate peoples.

Quote:

Feyli Kurdish or “Kurdi-ye Vali” as a northwestern Iranian dialect is closer to the Parthian. Past perfect tense is attested in the Parthian literature and it also exists in the Feyli Kurdish,

Parthian and Feyli Kurdish have a same method to construct the past perfect tense. Indeed, the historical process of the formation of the past perfect is not different in Parthian and Feyli Kurdish

. https://sciarena.com/storage/models/...i-dialects.pdf

https://youtu.be/Qp0vd3OTlLo
08-31-2022, 08:16 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoro

. https://sciarena.com/storage/models/...i-dialects.pdf

https://youtu.be/Qp0vd3OTlLo

Most of those words are the same/similar to other dialects. In fact, Feyli is classified as southern Kurmanj.

Plus - no one denies the similarities between Parthian and Kurdish. It is simply chronologically impossible for the Kurdish language to stem from Parthian.
08-31-2022, 08:27 PM
Token

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guti

Read the Southern Arc paper and according to the writers of that paper proto-Uralics had maybe some proto-Indo-Iranian loanwords. Nothing special to invent crazy theories about it.

Not really for any significance here.

The Southern Arc paper agrees that the Indo-Iranians came from the steppe. Dozens of Proto-Indo-Iranic and Proto-Iranic loanwords into Proto-Uralic and Proto-Finno-Ugric, including the fact that "Aryan" in Proto-Uralic (a Siberian hunter-gatherer language) means slave, prove that the Indo-Iranians lived in the northern steppes and not in western Asia, which is the dominant view among linguists and archaeologists.

Code:

Pre-Indo-Iranian *ertä ‘side’, *kekrä ‘wheel’, *kečrä ‘spindle’, *mekši ‘bee’, (*meti ‘honey’), *ońća ‘part’, (*orpa ‘orphan’), *peijas ‘feast’, *pejmä ‘milk’, Pre-P *pertä ‘wing’, *repä ‘fox’, *rećmä ‘rope’, *sejti ‘bridge’ Proto-Indo-Iranian *aćtara ‘whip’, *anti/onta, *ora ‘awl’, *orja ‘slave; south’, (*orpa ‘orphan’), *pośi ‘penis’, *śaŋka ‘handle’, Pre-Md *śaγa ‘goat’, *śarwi ‘horn’, *śaδa- ‘to rain’, śara- ‘shit’, *śi̮ta ‘hundred’, Pre-P *śVta ‘hundred’, *śasra ‘thousand’, *śišta ‘wax’, *śoma- ‘sad’, *waćara ‘hammer’, *woraći ‘boar’ Uncertain cases *ćaŋka- ‘to sting’, *ćara- ‘brown; ? to dawn’, *ćarapa ‘elk’, *ćero ‘hill-top’,? *ćerti ‘group’, *porćas, PUg *śeŋkV ‘nail’ Proto-Iranian (*ačwa ‘horse’) *mača ‘insect’, *očra ‘barley’, *počaw ‘reindeer’, *päčäɣ ‘reindeer’, *serä ‘old’, *šoji- ‘to care’, *šukta ‘burnt patch’ Ambiguous early loans (can be either from PII or PI) *ajša ‘shaft’, *asVra ‘lord’, *iha ‘yearning. passion’, *ihta ‘lust’, *jama ‘twin’, *jawi/jowa (> Mo juv) ‘awn’, *jawi (> PS *jäə̑) ‘flour’, *ji̮ni ‘way, path’, *juma ‘god’, *kana- ‘to dig’, *kara- ‘to dig’, *kata- ‘to graze’, *kertä- ‘to bind’, *ki̮ntaw ‘tree stump’, *kürtńV ‘iron’, PKh *kǟrtV ‘iron’, *kärtä ‘iron’, *martas ‘dead’, *ńātV- ‘to help’, *pakas ‘god’, *para ‘good’, Kh pĕnt ‘way’, PMs *pē̮ńtV ‘brother-in-law’, *pora ‘old’, *poči- ‘to boil’, Pre-P *porta ‘vessel’, *puntaksi ‘bottom’, Pre-Ma *pänti- ‘to bind’, PMa *pärća ‘ear of corn’, *pätäri- ‘to flee’, *saγi- ‘to get, obtain’, *sampas ‘pillar’, *saŋka ‘old’, *sara ‘lake’, *sasara ‘sister’, *säptä ‘seven’, *tajwas ‘sky’, *takra ‘piece of flesh’, *tarna ‘grass’, *tojwV ‘wish’, *toraksi ‘through’, *tora- ‘to fight’, *täjV ‘milk’, *täjinV ‘cow’, *täši, *uška ‘bull’, *wakša- (> PS *wåtå-) ‘to grow’, *wajna- ‘to see’, *wojna- ‘to see’, *wiša ‘venom’, *wi̮rna ‘wool’, *wärkä ‘kidney’, PS *wǝ̑rkǝ̑ ‘wolf’, *wirtV- ‘to hold, raise’, *äŋkärä ‘coal’

https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/...=1&isAllowed=y

Keep coping Kurd.
08-31-2022, 08:30 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Token

The Southern Arc paper agrees that the Indo-Iranians came from the steppe. Dozens of Proto-Indo-Iranic and Proto-Iranic loanwords into Proto-Uralic and Proto-Finno-Ugric, including the fact that "Aryan" in Proto-Uralic (a Siberian hunter-gatherer language) means slave, prove that the Indo-Iranians lived in the northern steppes and not in western Asia, which is the dominant view among linguists and archaeologists. Keep coping Kurd.

Seethe
08-31-2022, 08:33 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Token

The Southern Arc paper agrees that the Indo-Iranians came from the steppe. Dozens of Proto-Indo-Iranic and Proto-Iranic loanwords into Proto-Uralic and Proto-Finno-Ugric, including the fact that "Aryan" in Proto-Uralic (a Siberian hunter-gatherer language) means slave, prove that the Indo-Iranians lived in the northern steppes and not in western Asia, which is the dominant view among linguists and archaeologists.

Code:

Pre-Indo-Iranian *ertä ‘side’, *kekrä ‘wheel’, *kečrä ‘spindle’, *mekši ‘bee’, (*meti ‘honey’), *ońća ‘part’, (*orpa ‘orphan’), *peijas ‘feast’, *pejmä ‘milk’, Pre-P *pertä ‘wing’, *repä ‘fox’, *rećmä ‘rope’, *sejti ‘bridge’ Proto-Indo-Iranian *aćtara ‘whip’, *anti/onta, *ora ‘awl’, *orja ‘slave; south’, (*orpa ‘orphan’), *pośi ‘penis’, *śaŋka ‘handle’, Pre-Md *śaγa ‘goat’, *śarwi ‘horn’, *śaδa- ‘to rain’, śara- ‘shit’, *śi̮ta ‘hundred’, Pre-P *śVta ‘hundred’, *śasra ‘thousand’, *śišta ‘wax’, *śoma- ‘sad’, *waćara ‘hammer’, *woraći ‘boar’ Uncertain cases *ćaŋka- ‘to sting’, *ćara- ‘brown; ? to dawn’, *ćarapa ‘elk’, *ćero ‘hill-top’,? *ćerti ‘group’, *porćas, PUg *śeŋkV ‘nail’ Proto-Iranian (*ačwa ‘horse’) *mača ‘insect’, *očra ‘barley’, *počaw ‘reindeer’, *päčäɣ ‘reindeer’, *serä ‘old’, *šoji- ‘to care’, *šukta ‘burnt patch’ Ambiguous early loans (can be either from PII or PI) *ajša ‘shaft’, *asVra ‘lord’, *iha ‘yearning. passion’, *ihta ‘lust’, *jama ‘twin’, *jawi/jowa (> Mo juv) ‘awn’, *jawi (> PS *jäə̑) ‘flour’, *ji̮ni ‘way, path’, *juma ‘god’, *kana- ‘to dig’, *kara- ‘to dig’, *kata- ‘to graze’, *kertä- ‘to bind’, *ki̮ntaw ‘tree stump’, *kürtńV ‘iron’, PKh *kǟrtV ‘iron’, *kärtä ‘iron’, *martas ‘dead’, *ńātV- ‘to help’, *pakas ‘god’, *para ‘good’, Kh pĕnt ‘way’, PMs *pē̮ńtV ‘brother-in-law’, *pora ‘old’, *poči- ‘to boil’, Pre-P *porta ‘vessel’, *puntaksi ‘bottom’, Pre-Ma *pänti- ‘to bind’, PMa *pärća ‘ear of corn’, *pätäri- ‘to flee’, *saγi- ‘to get, obtain’, *sampas ‘pillar’, *saŋka ‘old’, *sara ‘lake’, *sasara ‘sister’, *säptä ‘seven’, *tajwas ‘sky’, *takra ‘piece of flesh’, *tarna ‘grass’, *tojwV ‘wish’, *toraksi ‘through’, *tora- ‘to fight’, *täjV ‘milk’, *täjinV ‘cow’, *täši, *uška ‘bull’, *wakša- (> PS *wåtå-) ‘to grow’, *wajna- ‘to see’, *wojna- ‘to see’, *wiša ‘venom’, *wi̮rna ‘wool’, *wärkä ‘kidney’, PS *wǝ̑rkǝ̑ ‘wolf’, *wirtV- ‘to hold, raise’, *äŋkärä ‘coal’

https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/...=1&isAllowed=y

Keep coping Kurd.

How would those hunter-gatherers have held Aryans as slaves? They must have been superior to Aryans :confused:
08-31-2022, 08:36 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

How would those hunter-gatherers have held Aryans as slaves? They must have been superior to Aryans :confused:

Early Indo-Iranians dominated everyone in their path and even took down the biggest empire the world had ever seen in the Iron Age. Slave my ass.
08-31-2022, 08:41 PM
Token

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgurd

Early Indo-Iranians dominated everyone in their path and even took down the biggest empire the world had ever seen in the Iron Age. Slave my ass.

Finno-Permians still use "Aryan" as synonymous of slave, lmfao
08-31-2022, 08:42 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgurd

Early Indo-Iranians dominated everyone in their path and even took down the biggest empire the world had ever seen in the Iron Age. Slave my ass.

Well, somehow the Uralics managed to extirpate the Indo-Iranians from the Volga-Ural region. Russian Uralics have a shit ton of Steppe ancestry and some of them show double digit amounts of R1a.
08-31-2022, 08:42 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Token

Finno-Permians still use "Aryan" as synonymous of slave, lmfao

Except in Iranian languages it is not pronounced “Aryan” - this is a European rendering. It is pronounced Arî in Kurdish, Aryayî in Persian. It is etymologically unrelated and means noble.
08-31-2022, 08:44 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Well, somehow the Uralics managed to extirpate the Indo-Iranians from the Volga-Ural region. Russian Uralics have a shit ton of Steppe ancestry and some of them show double digit amounts of R1a.

R1a-Z93 is related to Indo-Iranians. If anything that suggests the complete opposite - but then again I am not familiar with Uralics and I don’t like to make claims out of my ass like this Token dude
08-31-2022, 08:45 PM
Leto

Everyone wants to be Aryan because it's often understood as racially superior, mighty and good-looking. :D :cool:
08-31-2022, 08:46 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgurd

R1a-Z93 is related to Indo-Iranians. If anything that suggests the complete opposite - but then again I am not familiar with Uralics and I don’t like to make claims out of my ass like this Token dude

It suggests that Uralic speakers might have assimilated IE speakers, hence the R1a in the region.

Token is a self-purported academic scholar, you should listen to him ;)
08-31-2022, 08:47 PM
Token

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgurd

Except in Iranian languages it is not pronounced “Aryan” - this is a European rendering. It is pronounced Arî in Kurdish, Aryayî in Persian. It is etymologically unrelated and means noble.

All of them stem from Proto-Indo-Iranian *arya so it doesn't matter, in Uralic slave is still "orja" (from PII *arya). Your ancestors were enslaved by Siberian hunter-gatherer tribes and this is still remembered by their descendants.
08-31-2022, 08:49 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

It suggests that Uralic speakers might have assimilated IE speakers, hence the R1a in the region.

Token is a self-purported academic scholar, you should listen to him ;)

Or maybe early Indo-Iranian men had some fun with Uralic ladies?
08-31-2022, 08:49 PM
Guti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Token

The Southern Arc paper agrees that the Indo-Iranians came from the steppe. Dozens of Proto-Indo-Iranic and Proto-Iranic loanwords into Proto-Uralic and Proto-Finno-Ugric, including the fact that "Aryan" in Proto-Uralic (a Siberian hunter-gatherer language) means slave, prove that the Indo-Iranians lived in the northern steppes and not in western Asia, which is the dominant view among linguists and archaeologists.

Lol.

Once again it is proto-Indo-Iranian and they don't discuss proto-Iranian. Furthermore the ARYAN Medes were Western-Iranian. The gap in time and space between proto-Indo-Iranian is and Western-Iranian is huge.

Think of proto-Balto-Slavic and Western-Slavic languages. The gap in time and space between proto-Balto-Slavic and Western-Slavic is huge.
08-31-2022, 08:49 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Token

All of them stem from Proto-Indo-Iranian *arya so it doesn't matter, in Uralic slave is still "orja" (from PII *arya). Your ancestors were enslaved by Siberian hunter-gatherer tribes and this is still remembered by their descendants.

I didn’t even know what an Uralic was until I spoke to you subhuman
08-31-2022, 08:54 PM
Token

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgurd

I didn’t even know what an Uralic was until I spoke to you subhuman

You didn't know what an Uralic was, but Uralics still remember you orja as a race of slaves. Bow down before your Uralic enslavers :laugh:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a2/d4...d5cf93d821.jpg
08-31-2022, 08:54 PM
Guti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgurd

Early Indo-Iranians dominated everyone in their path and even took down the biggest empire the world had ever seen in the Iron Age. Slave my ass.

But you fail to understand that the Medes were not Indo-Iranians by any sense.

The Medes were ARYANS, with other words Western-Iranians. Western-Iranians were already separated from the proto-Indo-Europeans, proto-Indo-Iranians, proto-Iranians by thousands of years.

Kurds (language, religion and culture) are derived from the Western-Iranics (Medes) and not from the proto-Indo-Iranians.
08-31-2022, 08:59 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Token

You didn't know what an Uralic was, but Uralics still remember you orja as a race of slaves. Bow down before your Uralic enslavers :laugh:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a2/d4...d5cf93d821.jpg

Hold up lol how does this even suggest Uralics enslaved Aryans?

Traditionally taken as a borrowing from the Proto-Indo-Iranian autonym *áryas, or from an earlier stage of development (practically Proto-Indo-European) *óryos, with meaning 'slave' developing in a similar way as Latin sclavus (“slave”) from Sclavus (“Slav”).[1] EVE supports this etymology and argues that the meaning "south, southener" is a parallel development from the Indo-Aryan endonym through the meaning "a people living south".[2]

They have a common root but it doesn’t mean the same thing nor does it suggest Siberian hunter-gatherers enslaved Aryans lmao
08-31-2022, 09:00 PM
Leto

Okay, this is descending into trolling again. Let's ban Guti and close the thread for starters. :swl
08-31-2022, 09:00 PM
Guti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoro

I was referring to the late iron age inhabitants and Arya and Aryana being Parthians and Sogdians. I don't have enough info on Medes

If you don't have enough info on the Medes you should stop talking.

Because it is the Medes that concern mostly the Kurds and not 'other Iranics'.

Parthians derived from the Medes and not the other way around. The Medes called themselves 'Aryans' even long before Parthians came into the existence.
08-31-2022, 09:02 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guti

If you don't have enough info on the Medes you should stop talking.

Because it is the Medes that concern mostly the Kurds and not 'other Iranics'.

Parthians derived from the Medes and not the other way around. The Medes called themselves 'Aryans' even long before Parthians came into the existence.

The Yaghnobi people are THE most Aryanic group of people that is still extant. They also have little Mongoloid/East Eurasian. They're almost 50/50 Andronovo/BMAC. A living fossil.
08-31-2022, 09:05 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guti

Turks are 100% Turano-Mongoloid monkeys, while real ethnic Kurds and real Persians are 100% Aryans

Lol. A Turk in some comment section or on Telegram once told me Kurds are "darker than his shit" when I implied Kurds are closer to whites because of their IE language.
Apparently Kurds are seen as chernozhopy in Turkey.
08-31-2022, 09:05 PM
Token

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgurd

Hold up lol how does this even suggest Uralics enslaved Aryans?

Traditionally taken as a borrowing from the Proto-Indo-Iranian autonym *áryas, or from an earlier stage of development (practically Proto-Indo-European) *óryos, with meaning 'slave' developing in a similar way as Latin sclavus (“slave”) from Sclavus (“Slav”).[1] EVE supports this etymology and argues that the meaning "south, southener" is a parallel development from the Indo-Aryan endonym through the meaning "a people living south".[2]

They have a common root but it doesn’t mean the same thing nor does it suggest Siberian hunter-gatherers enslaved Aryans lmao

Are all Kurds extraordinarily dumb like you and Guti? For what other reason would they borrow the word that Indo-Iranians used to refer to themselves and give it the meaning of slave, genius?
08-31-2022, 09:09 PM
Guti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgurd

Most of those words are the same/similar to other dialects. In fact, Feyli is classified as southern Kurmanj.

Plus - no one denies the similarities between Parthian and Kurdish. It is simply chronologically impossible for the Kurdish language to stem from Parthian.

Parthian was derived from the Median, but maybe with some Scythian features. Later on when Kurdistan was under the Parthian rule for let say 500 years, some places in Kurdistan were influenced by the Parthian dialect and I think a split within Kurdic occurred because of the Parthian dialect.
The split between Kurmanji and Gorani/Zazaki could have occurred because of the Parthians.

Parthian was a Western Middle Iranian language. Language contact made it share some features of the Eastern Iranian language group, the influence of which is attested primarily in loanwords.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_language
08-31-2022, 09:12 PM
Guti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Lol. A Turk in some comment section or on Telegram once told me Kurds are "darker than his shit" when I implied Kurds are closer to whites because of their IE language.
Apparently Kurds are seen as chernozhopy in Turkey.

I don't care how dark or light Turks and Kurds are, but my people see the Turks/Tatars as subhumans. People with whom we should never mix with to downgrade our race.

:thumb001:
08-31-2022, 09:14 PM
Guti

Fact is that we as Aryans don't like to mix with the 'dirty' Turks. So tell me, who is considering whom of a lower race?
08-31-2022, 09:15 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Token

Are all Kurds extraordinarily dumb like you and Guti? For what other reason would they borrow the word that Indo-Iranians used to refer to themselves and give it the meaning of slave, genius?

Self-designated linguist are you? Lmao let me explain:

or from an earlier stage of development (practically Proto-Indo-European) *óryos, with meaning 'slave'

EVE supports this etymology and argues that the meaning "south, southener" is a parallel development from the Indo-Aryan endonym through the meaning "a people living south

According to this the term for slave developed from proto-Indo-European *Óryos. The term for southerner developed from Proto-Indo-Iranian (or Indo-Aryan as it states) *Aryas.

It doesn’t make sense for the term to develop from Proto-Indo-Iranian which is usually associated with the Sintashta - Andronovo cultures. The Sintashta are known, for example, for assimilating the neighbouring BMAC culture.
PLUS it does not even chronologically add up. You guys were still hunter gatherers whilst we were building cities and chariots? And you think you enslaved us? Lmao
08-31-2022, 09:19 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guti

I don't care how dark or light Turks and Kurds are, but my people see the Turks/Tatars as subhumans. People with whom we should never mix with to downgrade our race.

:thumb001:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guti

Fact is that we as Aryans don't like to mix with the 'dirty' Turks. So tell me, who is considering whom of a lower race?

Turks and (Volga) Tatars don't look alike. And an average Kurd is very similar to Azerbaijanis for example. So I call bullshit on that.
08-31-2022, 09:22 PM
Token

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgurd

Self-designated linguist are you? Lmao let me explain:

or from an earlier stage of development (practically Proto-Indo-European) *óryos, with meaning 'slave'

EVE supports this etymology and argues that the meaning "south, southener" is a parallel development from the Indo-Aryan endonym through the meaning "a people living south

According to this the term for slave developed from proto-Indo-European *Óryos. The term for southerner developed from Proto-Indo-Iranian (or Indo-Aryan as it states) *Aryas.

It doesn’t make sense for the term to develop from Proto-Indo-Iranian which is usually associated with the Sintashta - Andronovo cultures. The Sintashta are known, for example, for assimilating the neighbouring BMAC culture.

Source: wikipedia, LOL

Code:

*orja can only be explained as an Indo-Iranian loan, because the word has no cognates in other languages of the Indo-European family. Fi orja ‘slave’; SaN oarji ‘south; west’ (cognates in all Saami languages < PSa *oarjē); Md E uŕe, M uŕä ‘slave’; Ud war ‘slave, servant’ < PU *orja ‘slave’ (UEW s.v. orja; Zhivlov 2014: 138; Aikio 2015b: 61) ← PII *ā́rya-, > OI ā́rya-, Av airiia-, OP ariya- (Thieme 1938; EWAia I: 174–75, s.v. ā́rya; Schneider 2010: 102–103) (Paasonen 1896: 49; Joki 1973: 297; Burrow 1976: 61; Katz 1985: 204–207; 2003: 168; Gamkrelidze & Ivanov 1984: 924; Rédei 1986c: 54–55; Katz 1987: 452; Szemerényi 1988: 174–175; Lushnikova 1990; Parpola 1999: 196–197; Sammallahti 2001: 408; Holopainen 2018b: 153–154; Kümmel 2018a)

https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/...=1&isAllowed=y
08-31-2022, 09:25 PM
Halgurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Token

Source: wikipedia, LOL

Code:

*orja can only be explained as an Indo-Iranian loan, because the word has no cognates in other languages of the Indo-European family. Fi orja ‘slave’; SaN oarji ‘south; west’ (cognates in all Saami languages < PSa *oarjē); Md E uŕe, M uŕä ‘slave’; Ud war ‘slave, servant’ < PU *orja ‘slave’ (UEW s.v. orja; Zhivlov 2014: 138; Aikio 2015b: 61) ← PII *ā́rya-, > OI ā́rya-, Av airiia-, OP ariya- (Thieme 1938; EWAia I: 174–75, s.v. ā́rya; Schneider 2010: 102–103) (Paasonen 1896: 49; Joki 1973: 297; Burrow 1976: 61; Katz 1985: 204–207; 2003: 168; Gamkrelidze & Ivanov 1984: 924; Rédei 1986c: 54–55; Katz 1987: 452; Szemerényi 1988: 174–175; Lushnikova 1990; Parpola 1999: 196–197; Sammallahti 2001: 408; Holopainen 2018b: 153–154; Kümmel 2018a)

https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/...=1&isAllowed=y

Seethe. You didn’t have an issue with the source until you realized you interpreted it incorrectly :laugh:
08-31-2022, 09:27 PM
Guti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Turks and (Volga) Tatars don't look alike. And an average Kurd is very similar to Azerbaijanis for example. So I call bullshit on that.

I don't know if you know it, but I am from Tbilisi.

In Tbilisi, Azeris were the lowest of the lowest. Uneducated people who didn’t speak properly Georgian or Russian and who sold tomatoes on the markets. Georgians called them 'Tatari'. Georgians use/used 'Tatari' like a dirty word, similar to 'Gypsy', 'Nigger' or something.
We Ezdi Kurds call the Azeri 'Ajam' as a swear word.

If somebody from my people would marry an Azeri that person would become ashamed big time and would be deleted from our community.

Overall, Georgians (from Tbilisi) held Ezdi Kurds in a higher regard than the Russians or Armenians let alone the Azeri. The most respectable 'wori w zakone' were the Ezdi Kurds. For a small population like us the Ezdi Kurds in the USSR countries we have relatively speaking the most higher educated people and even highly respected 'wori w zakone', after the Russians of course.
08-31-2022, 09:32 PM
Halgurd

AHAHAHAHAHA @Token you are Brazilian and you want to talk about slavery? :laugh: :laugh:

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