Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in southern Albania

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Originally Posted by Sorcelow

Is there any explanation for why this haplogroup reaches such high percentages in southern Albania?

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/cont...ogroup_I2a.gif

I would think that its the leftovers from Kutmichevitsa Slavs

http://www.protobulgarians.com/Stati...tonen%20-1.gif

Either that or its somehow native?

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There is very few I2a1 in Albania.

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

The I2a1b in Slavs originally came from the Hunter-Gatheres of NW Europe so it migrated east into east Europe, I would say that the expansion of I2a1b-Din into the Balkans occurred around Poland or Ukraine

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That would place I2a-Din somewhere near Pripyat, but as i know it's debunked and outdated. Now there is a theory that it wasn't a part of Slavic ethnogenesis at the beginnings, but later. I would say more it comes from Bastarns!

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Maybe they weren't there in past, but they are now :)

Modern Slavic men in Pripyat area are around 20%+ I2-dinaric, higher concentration than usual among northern Slavs.

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I know about now, but i wonder what was before...

Slavic archeological cultures are complicated story, therefore we can't say anything for sure. Also that I2a-Din wasn't part of Zarubintsy culture.

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

That would place I2a-Din somewhere near Pripyat, but as i know it's debunked and outdated. Now there is a theory that it wasn't a part of Slavic ethnogenesis at the beginnings, but later. I would say more it comes from Bastarns!

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I would say I2a1b-Din was more west than Pripyat, there is a chance of Slavs absorbing I2a1b-Din from Germanic people’s early on

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

That would place I2a-Din somewhere near Pripyat, but as i know it's debunked and outdated. Now there is a theory that it wasn't a part of Slavic ethnogenesis at the beginnings, but later. I would say more it comes from Bastarns!

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judging by slavonic placenames in greece and albania, i suspect an origin more precisely at western poland and moravia. Although Based on current distribution though, the odds of it being swept up in migration era movements is tempting to believe.

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

I would say I2a1b-Din was more west than Pripyat, there is a chance of Slavs absorbing I2a1b-Din from Germanic people’s early on

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Bastarnae are good candidates for such one! They're classified as Celto-Germanic, but perhaps they were an individual community once... It's not certain.

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

I would say I2a1b-Din was more west than Pripyat, there is a chance of Slavs absorbing I2a1b-Din from Germanic people’s early on

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West Balkan Vlachs.. who got Latin language from Romans and were Roman themselves are predominantly I2a1b CTS 10228

Now Latin language was official on Western Balkans up to 6th century even if Western Court of Empire died in Dalmatia under Julius Nepos, and you are telling me
that Slavs came in 4th century and learned Latin language then .. they had to learn Slavic language all over again?

Doesn't make any sense.

IF I2a1b people on Western Balkans knew Latin in 2nd,3rd,4th century A.D. then of course they are NATIVE and non-Slavic.

In 1850 A.D. Serbia had 120.000 Latin speakers, while in 8th-10th century Latin speakers were majority and majority were I2a1b.

Look at Romania, 28% (Majority) are I2a1b, rest goes to R1a, and minority to others.... do you think that R1a were Latin speakers? Lol.

All those Latin speakers came from Roman Empire and had a Roman Citizenship.

R1b people who nowdays rule Italy.. those people of course are not Italians, even Romans recognized that in 10th century when they declared so.

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Originally Posted by Bosniensis

West Balkan Vlachs.. who got Latin language from Romans and were Roman themselves are predominantly I2a1b CTS 10228

Now Latin language was official on Western Balkans up to 6th century even if Western Court of Empire died in Dalmatia under Julius Nepos, and you are telling me
that Slavs came in 4th century and learned Latin language then .. they had to learn Slavic language all over again?

Doesn't make any sense.

IF I2a1b people on Western Balkans knew Latin in 2nd,3rd,4th century A.D. then of course they are NATIVE and non-Slavic.

In 1850 A.D. Serbia had 120.000 Latin speakers, while in 8th-10th century Latin speakers were majority and majority were I2a1b.

Look at Romania, 28% (Majority) are I2a1b, rest goes to R1a, and minority to others.... do you think that R1a were Latin speakers? Lol.

All those Latin speakers came from Roman Empire and had a Roman Citizenship.

R1b people who nowdays rule Italy.. those people of course are not Italians, even Romans recognized that in 10th century when they declared so.

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Vlachs are just Latin speaking people from that region so they could be Latin speaking Slavs, Latin speaking Albanians, Latin speaking Greeks etc so their genetics depends on their region, in Albania they closely resemble Albanians and are mainly a mix of J2b2 and R1b-BY611 suggesting that they are probably just Albanians who took up Latin. Romanians are heavily Slavicized genetically and their I2a1b is from Slavs and increased in numbers due to better breeding chances. Romans themselves were most probably mainly R1b-U152

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

Vlachs are just Latin speaking people from that region so they could be Latin speaking Slavs, Latin speaking Albanians, Latin speaking Greeks etc so their genetics depends on their region, in Albania they closely resemble Albanians and are mainly a mix of J2b2 and R1b-BY611 suggesting that they are probably just Albanians who took up Latin. Romanians are heavily Slavicized genetically and their I2a1b is from Slavs and increased in numbers due to better breeding chances. Romans themselves were most probably mainly R1b-U152

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Vlachs were speaking Latin through many many generations.

I ask you a simple question:

From WHO Vlachs (I2a1b people) learned Latin language ?

If Slavs came in 6th why would they Learn LATIN when we see that Vlachs have been Slavicized?

Also Vlachs could NOT speak Slavic language.

Please explain...

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Originally Posted by Bosniensis

Vlachs were speaking Latin through many many generations.

I ask you a simple question:

From WHO Vlachs (I2a1b people) learned Latin language ?

If Slavs came in 6th why would they Learn LATIN when we see that Vlachs have been Slavicized?

Also Vlachs could NOT speak Slavic language.

Please explain...

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Vlachs aren't I2a1b people, as I said before their haplogroups depend on the region they are from. They learnt Latin via the Roman empire and it's influence but the fact that they don't have the R1b clade found among the Italic people suggests that they aren't the direct descendant of Romans themselves. They could easily adopt a Vlach/Latin identity for various of reasons such as an attempt to integrate into a local community if that community has a majority Vlach population or because Latin was a more appealing language such was the case for the Ostrogoths who adopted Latin when they established their kingdom and are believed to be the source of the I1-Z63 in the Balkans. Vlachs to this day speak Slavic in certain areas an example of this are certain tribes who identify as Serb today such as the Krici