Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in southern Albania

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Originally Posted by Trojet

And this is the problem you're having not understanding the subclades. We're not talking about all I2a1 which is at least 10, 000 years old and includes the early split of Sardinian M26, we're talking about the CTS10228 aka Dinaric subclade found in the Balkans, which is only about 2200 years old at the time the Slavs existed and started expanding afterwards.

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Tribecode gives me I2a1b3a and does not give me that exact CTS10228 subclade?!

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Originally Posted by Drawing-slim

Tribecode gives me I2a1b3a and does not give me that exact CTS10228 subclade?!

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That means it tested all the way to I-L621 level and didn't test for CTS10228 which is its subclade ;)

EDIT: if you'd like to test further and don't want to do Y-DNA37 at FTDNA or Y37 at YSEQ, I would consider the YSEQ I2a-M423 SNP Panel which will test even below CTS10228, but mind that most likely you will fall somewhere below it.

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Originally Posted by Trojet

That means it tested all the way to I-L621 level and didn't test for CTS10228 which is its subclade ;)

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thats correct. Thnx

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Originally Posted by Dema

Ok i linked to you also Macedonian FTDNA project that also shows I2a as largest group at Macedonians.

Show me some study then that would confirm that Tosks have higher I2a then Macedonians.

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Tosks haven't tested much, there are barely few at ftdna. The scientific studies we have seen so far do suggest that CTS10228 and R1a are well represented among them. Now if that was a sample bias, can't really say, and it might not be because there are few studies that basically reported almost exactly the same thing. Of course to really know in which region in the south they peak or are more represented we need Tosks to start testing through our project - the only way we can get to the bottom of it so we don't have to rely on few scientific studies (like we have done with Ghegs so far).

You were singeling out Skrapar, Laberia: Two fellas who have tested from there, Geni and another guy at 23andme, are R1b and related to me and other Albanians. So it doesn't look like Skrapar was one of their settlements, no I2a or R1a from there as of yet.

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Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

Tosks haven't tested much, there are barely few at ftdna. The scientific studies we have seen so far do suggest that CTS10228 and R1a are well represented among them. Now if that was a sample bias, can't really say, and it might not be because there are few studies that basically reported almost exactly the same thing. Of course to really know in which region in the south they peak or are more represented we need Tosks to start testing through our project - the only way we can get to the bottom of it so we don't have to rely on few scientific studies (like we have done with the Ghegs so far).

You were pointing out Skrapar, Laberia: Two fellas who have tested from there, Geni and another guy at 23andme, are R1b and related to me and other Albanians. So it doesn't look like Skrapar was one of their settlements, no I2a or R1a from there as of yet.

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Yes but from what i seen Macedonia has at least 20% I2a, and also based on colors they are representing like there is 25 - 30 per cent of I2a in large part of S Albania. Also more then anywhere in Macedonia. This just seem unbelievable.

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Originally Posted by Trojet

Labëria bro, I really don't want to be involved in this topic, but Albs like you who are so immature regarding genetics, yet choose to engage in this topic and stick to their theories are really pushing me. There is a lot more data on I2a1-CTS10228 aka Dinaric now then there was just two years ago.
It's not just Sarno et al. 2015, it's also Ferri et al 2010. What do you want, a study that will test every single Albanian. Mind that we now have data from our own project also.

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Trojet, duke diskutuar mësohet, sidomos kur ke të bësh me këta lloj ekspertësh.
Nuk pres që ç'do person të testohet gjenetikisht, mbase në një të ardhme mund të jetë diçka e detyrueshme në letërnjoftimet e ç'do personi, mbase.
Unë mendoj se ju jeni personi më i përgatitur për problemet gjenetike nga shqiptarët, kështu që po shfrytëzoj rastin që të pyes disa gjëra.
Nga eksperienca juaj, sa mund që të jetë numri i shqiptarëve nga Jugu që janë testuar në këto projektet e mëdha? Përafërsisht nëse nuk ke një shifër të saktë.
A ka ndonjë informacion se nga cilat zona të jugut janë këta njerëz dhe në cilat zona është më i lartë përqëndrimi i këtyre haplogroupeve?
Ne jemi duke diskutuar për kombe dhe grupime etnike. Shkenca që merret me këtë punë është Historia. Në dijeninë time asnjë historian serioz nuk merr në konsideratë gjatë punës së tij gjenetikën. Ke ndonjë shpjegim për këtë?
Faleminderit.

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Originally Posted by Dema

Yes but from what i seen Macedonia has at least 20% I2a, and also based on colors they are representing like there is 25 - 30 per cent of I2a in large part of S Albania. Also more then anywhere in Macedonia. This just seem unbelievable.

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Eupedia maps shouldn't be taken seriously when discussing specific regions, they are just 'general' information based on scientific studies. To really understant our ydna in more detial we need folks to test, simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

Eupedia maps shouldn't be taken seriously when discussing specific regions, they are just 'general' information based on scientific studies. To really understant our ydna in more detial we need folks to test, simple as that.

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Yes that is exactly why i pointed out things like this. Also we know Hercegovina is hot spot with sometimes 70% and its not same as most of Dalmatia as it is shown here.
I am not trying to discredit Eupedia, just give them a motivation to make more accurate maps and update their old ones. Details like this are very important.
After all this thread is opened because of detail like that, which seem to be incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

Tosks haven't tested much, there are barely few at ftdna. The scientific studies we have seen so far do suggest that CTS10228 and R1a are well represented among them. Now if that was a sample bias, can't really say, and it might not be because there are few studies that basically reported almost exactly the same thing. Of course to really know in which region in the south they peak or are more represented we need Tosks to start testing through our project - the only way we can get to the bottom of it so we don't have to rely on few scientific studies (like we have done with Ghegs so far).

You were singeling out Skrapar, Laberia: Two fellas who have tested from there, Geni and another guy at 23andme, are R1b and related to me and other Albanians. So it doesn't look like Skrapar was one of their settlements, no I2a or R1a from there as of yet.

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Duhet që ta lexosh me vëmendje atë pjesën e Skraparit. Njihet që në Skrapar ka pasur Sclavonia. Po të shikosh hartën gjeografike, është ky zinxhir malesh nga Skrapari në Opar, janë pak a shumë e njëjta zonë. Unë thashë që një pjesë e këtyre sllavëve u mblodhën nga bizantinët. Përderisa Muzaka përmend sllavë në Opar, dhe ne e dimë që ata janë sllavë të asimiluar, dhe nuk përmend në Skrapar, do të thotë që këta të Skraparit duhet të jenë larguar nga bizantinët. A kanë mbetur disa? Po më pyete mua që e njoh disi atë zonë unë them po. Tani me dy veta që thua ti që janë testuar, çfarë përfundimi mund të nxjerrësh?

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Originally Posted by Dema

Yes but from what i seen Macedonia has at least 20% I2a, and also based on colors they are representing like there is 25 - 30 per cent of I2a in large part of S Albania. Also more then anywhere in Macedonia. This just seem unbelievable.

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How do you explain this Dema?

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Originally Posted by Laberia

Duhet që ta lexosh me vëmendje atë pjesën e Skraparit. Njihet që në Skrapar ka pasur Sclavonia. Po të shikosh hartën gjeografike, është ky zinxhir malesh nga Skrapari në Opar, janë pak a shumë e njëjta zonë. Unë thashë që një pjesë e këtyre sllavëve u mblodhën nga bizantinët. Përderisa Muzaka përmend sllavë në Opar, dhe ne e dimë që ata janë sllavë të asimiluar, dhe nuk përmend në Skrapar, do të thotë që këta të Skraparit duhet të jenë larguar nga bizantinët. A kanë mbetur disa? Po më pyete mua që e njoh disi atë zonë unë them po. Tani me dy veta që thua ti që janë testuar, çfarë përfundimi mund të nxjerrësh?

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Kronikat historike nuk jane gjithmone te verteta, duhet m'i marr pak me rezerve. Ata dy te testuarit normal qe nuk e vertetojne se nuk ka sllav te asimiluar aty, kete pune vetem ata vendasit aty mund te spjegojne me mire se si eshte situata atje, por deri diku e tregojne qe ai vendanim aty eshte i banuar me Shqiptare; sepse Geni eshte R1b-BY611 si une, edhe ai tjetri ne 23andme duhet te jete po i kesaj linje, qe eshte linje shume e perhapur nen Shqiptar, si ne Gege ashtu edhe nen Toske, Arberesh dhe Arvanit.

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Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

Ata dy te testuarit normal qe nuk e vertetojne se nuk ka sllav te asimiluar aty, kete pune vetem ata vendasit aty mund te spjegojne me mire se si eshte puna aty, por deri diku e tregojne qe ai vendanim aty eshte i banuar me Shqiptare; sepse Geni eshte R1b-BY611 si une, edhe ai tjetri ne 23andme duhet te jete po i kesaj linje, qe eshte linje shume e perhapur nen Shqiptar, si ne Gege ashtu edhe nen Toske, Arberesh dhe Arvanit.

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Nuk ka një memorie historike te popullsia për këtë gjë. Përderisa as Muzaka që nuk e përmend, do të thotë që janë larguar. Por po ta përsëris, një farë influence duket me sy. Në historinë e Shqipërisë, përmendet si skllavonia për thuhet që u grumbulluan nga bizantinët dhe u dërguan diku tjetër, në Azi ka shumë mundësi.

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Originally Posted by Laberia

Nuk ka një memorie historike te popullsia për këtë gjë. Përderisa as Muzaka që nuk e përmend, do të thotë që janë larguar. Por po ta përsëris, një farë influence duket me sy. Në historinë e Shqipërisë, përmendet si skllavonia për thuhet që u grumbulluan nga bizantinët dhe u dërguan diku tjetër, në Azi ka shumë mundësi.

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Ajo eshte evidente per sa kame pare une, me Tosket te testuar qe kame komunikuar nuk e ndjekin prejardhjen e tyre me large se deri tek katragjyshi. Mundet te jete vendanim i perzier, nuk e di as nuk mund ta them qe eshte per momentin kur gjenetika e tregon te kunderten.

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Originally Posted by Laberia

Trojet, duke diskutuar mësohet, sidomos kur ke të bësh me këta lloj ekspertësh.
Nuk pres që ç'do person të testohet gjenetikisht, mbase në një të ardhme mund të jetë diçka e detyrueshme në letërnjoftimet e ç'do personi, mbase.
Unë mendoj se ju jeni personi më i përgatitur për problemet gjenetike nga shqiptarët, kështu që po shfrytëzoj rastin që të pyes disa gjëra.
Nga eksperienca juaj, sa mund që të jetë numri i shqiptarëve nga Jugu që janë testuar në këto projektet e mëdha? Përafërsisht nëse nuk ke një shifër të saktë.
A ka ndonjë informacion se nga cilat zona të jugut janë këta njerëz dhe në cilat zona është më i lartë përqëndrimi i këtyre haplogroupeve?
Ne jemi duke diskutuar për kombe dhe grupime etnike. Shkenca që merret me këtë punë është Historia. Në dijeninë time asnjë historian serioz nuk merr në konsideratë gjatë punës së tij gjenetikën. Ke ndonjë shpjegim për këtë?
Faleminderit.

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Nëse don me i diskutuar këto gjëra më detajisht, eja te Foleja.
Në forume publike si ku nuk do hyja në këto detaje.

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Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

Ajo eshte evidente per sa kam pare une, me Tosket te testuar qe kam komunikuar nuk e ndjekin prejardhjen e tyre me large se deri tek katragjyshi. Mundet te jete vendanim i perzier, nuk e di as nuk mund ta them qe eshte per momentin kur gjenetika e tregon te kunderten.

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Unë e di gjenealogjinë e fisit tim deri në shtatë breza, me emra të gjithë. Ne jemi një fis, si fshat. Kanë ardhur gjatë komunizmit disa familje, po pakë janë, një pjesë u largua mbas 90-ës.

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Originally Posted by Trojet

Nëse don me i diskutuar këto gjëra më detajisht, eja te Foleja.
Në forume publike si ku nuk do hyja në këto detaje.

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Do të lutesha të gjeje pesë minuta dhe të më ktheje një përgjigje.

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Originally Posted by Laberia

Unë e di gjenealogjinë e fisit tim deri në shtatë breza, me emra të gjithë. Ne jemi një fis, si fshat. Kanë ardhur gjatë komunizmit disa familje, po pakë janë, një pjesë u largua mbas 90-ës.

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Ok, testohu pra e ta shofim se nga e keni origjinen. Eshte e kote me thy dhame ne kete teme per mendjen teme kur as nuk ke iden cilit halpogrup ti dhe fisi yt i takon.

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Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

Ok, testohu pra e ta shofim se nga e keni origjinen. Eshte e kote me thy dhame ne kete teme per mendjen teme kur as nuk ke iden cilit halpogrup ti dhe fisi yt i takon.

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Do testohem, të kam thënë.
Tani ky thread u bë për troll. Dhe këtu nuk po diskutohet fisi im, por jugu i vendit.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...olithic-Balkan

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Originally Posted by Laberia

Do testohem, të kam thënë.
Tani ky thread u bë për troll. Dhe këtu nuk po diskutohet fisi im, por jugu i vendit.

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Per troll edhe eshte hapur mbasi une ju pergjegja atij tek ajo tema tjeter per Arvanit me fakte.Ok nuk ka problem, vetem e thashe mbasi fisi juaj eshte pjese e jugut te vendit....(popullorqe thojne "Gur me gur bahet muri").

In the defense of Laberia, I have yet to see a Lab I2a result. all studies have been on tosks(not Labs) so far

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Originally Posted by Thevillager

In the defense of Laberia, I have yet to see a Lab I2a result. all studies have been on tosks(not Labs) so far

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Ture, I only know three tested Labs, 2 are R1b-L23, one E-V13.

I1 in Ghegs is more common than I2a.

I'm guessing labs been very isolated.

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Originally Posted by Thevillager

In the defense of Laberia, I have yet to see a Lab I2a result. all studies have been on tosks(not Labs) so far

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That is consistent with the theory of Labs moving South later than other Toskid groups.

Laberians

http://argophilia.com/albania/wp-con...012/04/Iso.jpg

https://shkodraloce.files.wordpress....ure_laberi.jpg

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51...07658752_n.jpg

They look like J2b2 and EV 13

http://dialects.albanianlanguage.net...2-lightbox.jpg

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

They look like J2b2 and EV 13

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You can't "look" like a haplogroup.

Your posts are one of the most braindead on TA.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

You can't "look" like a haplogroup.

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I think I can comfortabaly spot between an I1 and I2 if someone made me select. Same with R1b and R1a if I had to make a choice. So I think it is very possible.

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

I think I can comfotabaly spot between an I1 and I2 if someone made me select. Same with R1b and R1a if I had to make a choice. So I think it is very possible.

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You can't. Move on. Labs have a good amount of R1b.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

You can't. Move on. Labs have a good amount of R1b.

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Source? That looks very J2b2

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Source? That looks very J2b2

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Autosomal admixture > Haplogroups in terms of looks

Y-dna is like 0.6% of the entire DNA

They look darker than regular Tosks.

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Originally Posted by Sorcelow

They look darker than regular Tosks.

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Photos lack white balance in the lighting though, I guess that is considered.

I haven't seen many Labs myself, would rather look at modern photos on the streets or something.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Photos lack white balance in the lighting though, I guess that is considered.

I haven't seen many Labs myself, would rather look at modern photos on the streets or something.

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A Lab woman used to work for my grandfather. Many Labs came to my father's village in search of work and Ive seen quite a few of them. To me they looked dark but stuck out like a sore thumb as Albanians amongst Peloponnesians.

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

That is consistent with the theory of Labs moving South later than other Toskid groups.

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Seriously, you have a theory?????
This is a great news Scholarios. Well, hope you will elaborate this theory.
BTW, is this your theory in accordance with the theory of your prefered author Hammond, or is time to declare Hammond idiot like all the authors from antiquity until middle XX century?

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Originally Posted by Laberia

Seriously, you have a theory?????
This is a great news Scholarios. Well, hope you will elaborate this theory.
BTW, is this your theory in accordance with the theory of your prefered author Hammond, or is time to declare Hammond idiot like all the authors from antiquity until middle XX century?

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As regards Labs, that's not my theory , but that of a wise old Kurveleshiote. As far as all Tosks being newcomers, well that is more or less mainstream history, as elaborated previously. (including Jochalas).

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

As regards Labs, that's not my theory , but that of a wise old Kurveleshiote. As far as all Tosks being newcomers, well that is more or less mainstream history, as elaborated previously. (including Jochalas).

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Well, Albanians are autocthonus in Epir.
What is this Kurveleshiote?
What's the opinion of Hammond about this?
You remember last time when you disappeared from the forum, using an Albanian expression, like the pee of the chicken? We discussed exactly this topic and you failed.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Autosomal admixture > Haplogroups in terms of looks

Y-dna is like 0.6% of the entire DNA

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Actually all of it including all autosomal dna tests are a joke. Its like you write a book about your whole life and someone tries interpreting it by reading only one word per page. At best two words per page. Onless you pay a lot of money and have a geneticist explaining everything in detail i see it as a waste of time and money. Having fun with it its all good but taking it to heart its a waste. Which is why i lost interest awhile ago.

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Originally Posted by Laberia

Well, Albanians are autocthonus in Epir.
What is this Kurveleshiote?
What's the opinion of Hammond about this?
You remember last time when you disappeared from the forum, using an Albanian expression, like the pee of the chicken? We discussed exactly this topic and you failed.

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Laberia - you really demonstrate that the low IQ of Balkan people is not a matter of genetics or nutrition or lack of schooling - but just sheer willpower . You have to * want * to be as retarded as you act. There is no other explanation for someone to be so proud of their own obnoxious ignorance.

Now please, stop quoting me. I'm satisfied that you took the bait over and over in this thread, but you can go back to selling marijuana in Italy , you shiftless lowlife.