VLATKO VUKOVIC's autosomal!

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Originally Posted by Dibran

Yea, I just noticed :(. That sucks. you should do Y-DNA with Ftdna next. Likely you will be I2a1b-Din, given its high dominance in Bosnia. R1a, and others are also possible.

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I expect I2a.

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Originally Posted by *****

I reacted because of the untruth you've said.
Yes, the Byzantines did give part of the Slavs a culture, in both of religion and writing.
That's undeniable fact...
Other Slavs like Croats and Slovenes were influenced by the Franks, hence becoming Catholics and writing in Latin...
And not all the Slavs did come with the Avars, only part of them.
White Croats are Slavs that came later on and annihilated the Avars and took their land...
Also, if you are not interested by genetics than you can not understand the human history and migration that happened during medievals.
Because the language you are speaking doesn't make you necessarily a Turk, a Slav or a Greek...
The culture and the language are just tools for assimilation and the Slavic language in the Balkans was spread not by the Avars, but by the Slavic empires in the Balkans.

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Turks are only bound by language and recognition of a common identity. This has been so since the beginning. Congratulations on defeating 20,000 Avars after their century presence in the region. Nothing that I stated is out of limits of academic consensus. Proto-slavs dwelled in dense forests. Turks brought early political organization and principles of state foundation to Eastern Europe and spread proto-Slavic language in the Balkans.

https://i.imgur.com/ijUbDMt.png
J. Brutzkus. 1944. The Khazar Origin of Ancient Kiev. Slavonic and East European Review. American Series

https://i.imgur.com/qEvuP0H.png
Hyun Jin Kim. 2015. The Huns. Routledge

Avars were responsible for the spreading and diffusion of proto-Slavic language in the Balkans and paved the way for later Slavic migrations into the region. This is supported by the bulk of academia.

https://i.imgur.com/15KqFvY.png
Hyun Jin Kim. 2015. The Huns (Peoples of the Ancient World). Routledge

https://i.imgur.com/jUD9h5N.png
T. Kamusella. 2009. The Politics of Language and Nationalism in Modern Central Europe. Palgrave Macmillan

https://i.imgur.com/dM9sLGa.png
Saskia Pronk-Tiethoff. 2013. The Germanic Loanwords in Proto-Slavic. Rodopi

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Originally Posted by itilvolga

Congratz, i bet you are hella proud of your ancestors now :lol:

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Thank you, and yes, surely i am.

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Originally Posted by The Illyrian Warrior

The same argument can Muslims use today in Middle East and elsewhere about Christians, what we can conclude today how in past 1000 years power/wealth has gone in to opposite direction, from once Muslim domination in Eurasia to Christian domination, besides, everyone in medieval times were ruthless, what sound Crusades or Inquisition to you? Opposite of Christians, Moors for eg. established quite a progressive and science based society, whereas Christians at that time make ISIS look like a kid from kindergarten.

Today is trendy to scapegoat on Muslims but isn't how you say it.

PS. Sorry for off topic, I won't hijack this thread anymore.

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Christians are not opressing Muslims in ME today.
Muslims live today exactly like they lived 1000,2000 years ago.
Muslims were never advanced in their entire history, as for the 300 years of the so called "Islamic Golden Age", it is a myth , stolen technology from Persian, Greek, Egyptian, Byzantine, Syrian, Jewish scholars.Read more https://myislam.dk/articles/en/trifk...-is-a-myth.php

https://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/H...3892cf5bee.jpg

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Originally Posted by Yaglakar

Indeed, this is the zone of eastern forest peoples. He should be proud of Oghuric Avars who spread the language that he speaks in the Balkans as well as later Oghuric Khazars who laid the foundation future Varangian (Viking) Kievan Rus by founding the city of Kiev and accustoming early Slavs to state foundation and political organization.

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Where are those Avars? I am still here, and my language speak half Europe. I cognate with Ukrainians genetically which is proof of our autosomal genetical historical relation, and i my results debunked the theory that South Slavs aren't Slavs, but assimilated Thrachians, Illyrians etc..

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Originally Posted by Yaglakar

You occupy the opposite radical spectrum of Bori. The entire steppe was Turkic since 5 century AD. Slavs eventually overwhelmed Turks with muskets and technology they got from Western Europe. Due to your bias, you constantly refer to Turks as a bunch of nomads failing to acknowledge that Turkic khaganates and smaller polities employed various writing systems, established cities and built fortresses all across the Steppes. Why don't you call Scythians a bunch of pillaging nomads? Early Slavic polities in the East were established by Vikings. The city of Kiev itself was founded by Khazars who built a fortress there. Thus the Greek name Sambatas from Turkic Sambat aka 'high fortress'. State foundation and political organization was brought by Turks to Eastern Europe. Obviously, the culture of Turks was no match for Meditarranean or Chinese ones, but far more advanced than that of Eastern or Northern Europe or that of Scythians who lost the Steppes to Turks and were absorbed by various Turkic groups.

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Who cares what somebody establish? Slavs forced their language toward Vikings, toward Finns, toward Turkics and even toward Balts, who lived until Moscow in ancient times. All are assimilated in Russia and speaking Slavic Russian language. Who did it for them? Avars? Vikings?

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Originally Posted by *****

Very radical results considering Bosnia's geographical position.

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That's normal here. Descedants of Slavic invaders are living there.

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

What about us catholics ;)......I think he got a permanent ban

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You are western, central Europeans. Ask Stears ;)

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Where are those Avars? I am still here, and my language speak half Europe. I cognate with Ukrainians genetically which is proof of our autosomal genetical historical relation, and i my results debunked the theory that South Slavs aren't Slavs, but assimilated Thrachians, Illyrians etc..

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There you go, Avars and Slavs slaughtered Romans and changed demographics of the region just like I stated earlier. :)

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Originally Posted by Yaglakar

There you go, Avars and Slavs slaughtered Romans and changed demographics of the region just like I stated earlier. :)

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Avars who? Their language dead. The Slavic was lingua franca in Avar Khaganate.

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Originally Posted by MalinBot

Christians are not opressing Muslims in ME today.
Muslims live today exactly like they lived 1000,2000 years ago.
Muslims were never advanced in their entire history, as for the 300 years of the so called "Islamic Golden Age", it is a myth , stolen technology from Persian, Greek, Egyptian, Byzantine, Syrian, Jewish scholars.Read more https://myislam.dk/articles/en/trifk...-is-a-myth.php

https://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/H...3892cf5bee.jpg

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You're actually completely incorrect. The oldest theory of evolution(albeit flawed) was proposed by a Muslim, hundreds if not a thousand years before Darwin. Called the Muhammaden theory of evolution. Also, borrowing from Persian religion is precisely what led to the clusterfuck of all islamic sects today. Most of the "evil muslim boogeyman" beliefs that everyone in the west is so terrified about comes directly from Christian and Persian theology.

If you want to get technical, every major advancement of Christianity was perpetrated by the very people who were against the church and called heretics. Nicholas Copernicus being one. Need I continue?

The advancements of a civilization are owed to its people and culture, not its religious institutions which for most part of human history stood in direct opposition to human advancement.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/rober..._11165778.html

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Who cares what somebody establish? Slavs forced their language toward Vikings, toward Finns, toward Turkics and even toward Balts, who lived until Moscow in ancient times. All are assimilated in Russia and speaking Slavic Russian language. Who did it for them? Avars? Vikings?

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Yes, that happened after the diffusion of superior North-West European civilization and its consequent adoption by Slavs. It happened much later. You are inclining towards 'whataboutism'. We are talking about early history here. Your fellows stated Turks were a bunch of savages. I merely corrected them. :)

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Originally Posted by Stears

Only in your fantasy. Belorussians have mongoloid markers, and they are closer to the asian nations in the autosomal coordinates: http://dienekes.blogspot.hu/2012/07/...ixture-in.html

But it is normal, you are eastern people, eastern semi-asian culture (orthodox), eastern balloon heads etc....

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You're a fucking idiot. I've tried to forgive you somehow, but you're clearly not making any progress. Belorussians are just as white as you and even my mom who is Northern Russian doesn't look any different from an average Eastern European.

Your results:

HarappaWorld

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 46.67
2 Mediterranean 20.75
3 Caucasian 15.79
4 Baloch 7.97
5 SW-Asian 4.17
6 Siberian 1.28
7 S-Indian 1.2
8 Beringian 1.16
9 American 0.64
10 San 0.38

Lol. Shut the fuck up.

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Originally Posted by Yaglakar

that happened after the diffusion of superior North-West European

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Croats defeated Avars and liberated from their ruling caste, and that's the well-known reallity. Nothing about diffusion of NW Europe...

About Turks they weren't uncivilized, but they were agressive nomadic Horde. What's so weird about it?

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Avars who? Their language dead. The Slavic was lingua franca in Avar Khaganate.

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Of course it was the lingua-franca in the Khaganate. (although only some scholars support this view) Avars were merely 20,000 men. Under Avar command, Slavic subjects increased their lebenstraum. :)

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Where are those Avars? I am still here, and my language speak half Europe. I cognate with Ukrainians genetically which is proof of our autosomal genetical historical relation, and i my results debunked the theory that South Slavs aren't Slavs, but assimilated Thrachians, Illyrians etc..

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

That's normal here. Descedants of Slavic invaders are living there.

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Vlatko you are a lot more slavic than the average bosniak,it seems that you have a recent east slav ancestor, the very high caucasus and the high steppe and east asian markers prove it.But it does not matter, because illyrians were indo-europeans and were high in the same 'slavic' admixture.

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Originally Posted by EdwardS

I saw on some American maps that Albanians and Bosnians are known as non-Europeans!

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I know the map you are talking about, that map shows Albanians and Bosnians under the "Muslim European" category

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Croats defeated Avars and liberated from their ruling caste, and that's the well-known reallity. Nothing about diffusion of NW Europe...

About Turks they weren't uncivilized, but they were agressive nomadic Horde. What's so weird about it?

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Read posts of academic nature above. Turks who came to Europe were more advanced than Slavs. :)

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Originally Posted by Dibran

You're actually completely incorrect. The oldest theory of evolution(albeit flawed) was proposed by a Muslim, hundreds if not a thousand years before Darwin. Called the Muhammaden theory of evolution. Also, borrowing from Persian religion is precisely what led to the clusterfuck of all islamic sects today. Most of the "evil muslim boogeyman" beliefs that everyone in the west is so terrified about comes directly from Christian and Persian theology.

If you want to get technical, every major advancement of Christianity was perpetrated by the very people who were against the church and called heretics. Nicholas Copernicus being one. Need I continue?

The advancements of a civilization are owed to its people and culture, not its religious institutions which for most part of human history stood in direct opposition to human advancement.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/rober..._11165778.html

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Your post is plain irrelevant.Facts are facts.ME countries are alot less advanced than European/East Asian countries because of Islam.Not one Islamic country/Empire achieved anything, all they did is bring war/destruction.For example, even a country like Spain, each year, has more scientific/cultural advancements than all Islamic countries/Empire had in their history, in total.

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Originally Posted by Dibran

Aren't Gorani basically just a minority slavic tribe that never formed nationhood?

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There are theories on what their origin is but today they are Slavs and most similar to Macedonians and Bulgarians linguistically iirc. Some theories state that they are Bulgarians whilst others state that they have Albanian roots due to some cultural aspects(some wear the plis/qeleshe for example) but DNA testing will tell us what exactly their origins is

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Originally Posted by SerbianGod

Hungarians more mongol than balkans according to your graph

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Open your eyes. In all studies Serbs are both more mongoloid and more MENA, but it is not surprising.

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Originally Posted by Stears

Open your eyes. In all studies Serbs are both more mongoloid and more MENA, but it is not surprising.

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Why are you so obsessed with Mongols? You have some Siberian just as lots of other Eastern Europeans. You're not German or English, even your language is originally from Siberia. Needless to say that Hungarians have a lot of Slavic and even Balkan blood (you are literally surrounded by Slavs and Balkan people). As for us, of course Russia has more Asian influence than Central Europe, it's a huge and multiethnic country that spans from the Baltic sea to the Bering sea, but unmixed ethnic Russians even in the North are still over 90% European genetically. We are about 5% East Eurasian on average (including all regions).
By the way, fully mongoloid people like the Japanese, Koreans and Han Chinese have the highest average IQ and create technologically advanced societies.

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Originally Posted by MalinBot

Vlatko you are a lot more slavic than the average bosniak,it seems that you have a recent east slav ancestor, the very high caucasus and the high steppe and east asian markers prove it.But it does not matter, because illyrians were indo-europeans and were high in the same 'slavic' admixture.

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My "Caucasus" is normal for Balkans. It have average Balkan man, about 18-22%.

I don't have recent East Slavic ancestor for sure. It is just that my ancestors didn't mix a lot with Balkan natives. And that is normal for Bosnia.

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Originally Posted by Yaglakar

Read posts of academic nature above. Turks who came to Europe were more advanced than Slavs. :)

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And Persians were than Steppe Nomads ancestors of Turks? So what? Times are changed. We are now controlling half Europe.

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Originally Posted by MalinBot

Your post is plain irrelevant.Facts are facts.ME countries are alot less advanced than European/East Asian countries because of Islam.Not one Islamic country/Empire achieved anything, all they did is bring war/destruction.For example, even a country like Spain, each year, has more scientific/cultural advancements than all Islamic countries/Empire had in their history, in total.

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Don't argue with Muslim Albanians. They hate Christianity and feel out of place in other European countries. For example, Germans associate Albanians with Islamic people like Turks (not surprising given the amount of fake-ass refugees from Kosovo and Macedonia). They especially hate Serbs and Greeks who happen to be Orthodox Christians. I mean yes Albanians are Europeans genetically but due to the Ottoman cultural influence they were cut off from the rest of Southern Europe (excluding Christian Albanians).

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Originally Posted by Stears

Open your eyes. In all studies Serbs are both more mongoloid and more MENA, but it is not surprising.

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Your more mongoloid then me

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Originally Posted by Leto

Don't argue with Muslim Albanians. They hate Christianity and feel out of place in other European countries. For example, Germans associate Albanians with Islamic people like Turks (not surprising given the amount of fake-ass refugees from Kosovo and Macedonia). They especially hate Serbs and Greeks who happen to be Orthodox Christians. I mean yes Albanians are Europeans genetically but due to the Ottoman cultural influence they were cut off from the rest of Southern Europe (excluding Christian Albanians).

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Muslim Albanians don't hate Christianity, Albanians don't care about religion as a whole. Albanians weren't "cut off" from the rest of southern Europe, there are cultural similarities with Albanians and other Balkan countries, people exaggerate how cut off Albanians were.

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Where are those Avars? I am still here, and my language speak half Europe. I cognate with Ukrainians genetically which is proof of our autosomal genetical historical relation, and i my results debunked the theory that South Slavs aren't Slavs, but assimilated Thrachians, Illyrians etc..

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Your results are very Northern more than the average south slav. In general south slavs are more balkan then slavic

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Originally Posted by MalinBot

Vlatko you are a lot more slavic than the average bosniak,it seems that you have a recent east slav ancestor, the very high caucasus and the high steppe and east asian markers prove it.But it does not matter, because illyrians were indo-europeans and were high in the same 'slavic' admixture.

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What drugs are you on ? His results are typical for Bosnia, it is Vlach influenced Bosniensis that is out of norm, not Vlatko.

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Originally Posted by Decius

Your results are very Northern more than the average south slav. In general south slavs are more balkan then slavic

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Bosniaks are massively more northern shifted becouse Vlachs didn't settle very in Bosnia. Just in some parts. I don't know why is that so hard to understand.

By the way i am not a lot more northern shifted than you. It is not very significant.

Croats, Slovenes and Bosniaks are the exception but other south slavs are more balkan

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Bosniaks are massively more northern shifted becouse Vlachs didn't settle very in Bosnia. Just in some parts. I don't know why is that so hard to understand.

By the way i am not a lot more northern shifted than you. It is not very significant.

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It is a pretty signifigant difference I score 39.83 North European on dodecad k12b Much more simalar to Bosniensis's score while you score almost 45

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Originally Posted by Decius

Croats, Slovenes and Bosniaks are the exception but other south slavs are more balkan

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These is difference between western and eastern Serbs though. I am not sure how typical is your result.

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

Muslim Albanians don't hate Christianity, Albanians don't care about religion as a whole. Albanians weren't "cut off" from the rest of southern Europe, there are cultural similarities with Albanians and other Balkan countries, people exaggerate how cut off Albanians were.

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Bro, I have no anti-Albanian sentiments, I simply judge by the opinions of Albanian nationalists in this forum. I mean people say "well, you're Albanian which means Muslim" and that freaks some Albanians out, so they turn against Christian Europeans and start defending Islam. They can practice whatever they want in Albania or Kosovo, but I hate it when pro-Islamic people (not necessarily Albanians) try to tell us that Islam is just as European as Christianity or that "we used to be violent too".

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

What drugs are you on ? His results are typical for Bosnia, it is Vlach influenced Bosniensis that is out of norm, not Vlatko.

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Bosniensis is not that southern for a south slav. hes just southern compared to croats and bosniaks

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Originally Posted by Decius

Croats, Slovenes and Bosniaks are the exception but other south slavs are more balkan

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"Exception", that is almost the half of South Slavs.

And who are others? Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians. Montenegrins are very small nation.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

These is difference between western and eastern Serbs though. I am not sure how typical is your result.

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I probably have some ancestors from Montenegro. Im even related to Kelmendasi (according to GEDmatch) 7 generations ago

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

These is difference between western and eastern Serbs though. I am not sure how typical is your result.

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Not really. I asked Serbian members on Serbian DNA project and they said that my results are not common in Serbia, in any region, but in Bosnia it is.

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Originally Posted by Decius

I probably have some ancestors from Montenegro. Im even related to Kelmendasi (according to GEDmatch) 7 generations ago

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My paternal line is probably from Montenegro (Y-DNA will confirm or refute it), but why is that important for genetics?

Vlatko Vukovic are you buddist? xD