So Celts were North Europeans after all?

Is it me who hears common vibe in Norwegian and Irish languages?

Norwegian

https://youtu.be/CCqtbte5s8E

Irish

https://youtu.be/LhqC3Vd0Qzo

Another weird thing when I hear Norwegian rap music I think it sounds a bit French.

https://youtu.be/0lWthCsPlp0

https://youtu.be/X-W-eGinFR4

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Originally Posted by SharpFork

Again show me a historically recorded scenarion in the pre-industrial era where a language spread over heterogeneous areas without some kind of political unity, unity that we have no evidence for in the Atlantic.


And is there altantic Culture in Hallstatt?

Some people call it Para-Celtic, others think it's Italic, other think it's another branch within Italo-Celtic. Regardless it shows how unlikely it is to have had linguistical unity between Tartessos and Britain, I can understand believing Celtic came either from Spain or from Britain but both at the same time? How? Plus it doesn't really fit with the genetic evidence that show both Spain and England being pulled towards some intermediate group during the transition to the iron age. More evidence from France could help further




https://i.imgur.com/hRIC2ya.png



It's completely absent in most of France too...


Hallstatt is a continuation of a local Urnfield tradition.

There is virtually no La Tene material in Italy or Anatolia and yet you have clearly Celts there.



I'm just showing that Cunliffe has contradictory points, you can cherrypick his theory and other people's specific datings to come up with whatever theory but so could I do the same by using Cunliffe dating and using Hallstatt.

Like I said I don't have a particular attachment to Hallstatt but you on the contrary can't help but being hypocritically only criticize Hallstatt while not taking into considerations all the faults of the Atlantic theory.


Without actually explaing how the unity could have come to be in a plausible and real way that we can see in actual history.


Cunliffe and Koch could fit their theory in a 1000 different theories of Indo-European spread, it's almost as if they are simply stubborn and are biased towards their own theory despite lack of evidence on all fronts.

It doesn't matter if Celtic came in the region in the Neolithic or Bronze Age, the theory remains unchanged. Are you going to defend those 2 people's random theories as well? That Germanic is a mix between farmer Indo-European and Steppe INdo-European?

In any case I'm tired of this discussion, you have still not presented any actual reason why this theory is needed and what it offers more than Hallstatt/Urnfield, especially when you ignore the fact that in multiple cases the spread of Celtic was not fllowed by spread of material culture.

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We are talking here about pre-historic period of late Bronze Age. The earliest textual information about Celts is the 6 century BC And we don't know anything about their political unity for the earlier period. Maybe that was, maybe not. But if structure of Celtic world in LBA was similar to those in Iron Age with political centre, high kings and even supra-national religious system, so there's nothing surprising that similar system may have existed along Atlantic areas. Also, Atlantic Bronze Age cultures were straight descendants of Late Neolithic/Bell Beaker tribes, so they could have common ethnic backroung and sibling language initially.

There's widespread infiltration of Atlantic bronze wares including weapon just right before Ha C. period, for St Brieuc-des-Iffs, Carp's Tongue' and Ewart Park phases. just right coinciding with Urnfield system collapse. Halstatt is just partially continuation of preceding Urnfield tradition.

Well if you can not believe in presence of Celts in Britain and Iberia in LBA, the only alternative is later conquest of half of Europe by some Halstatt "Genghis Khans"

I don't know why these archaeological maps are little different, anyway it doesn't change anything. For maritime transport it's not the serious obstacle.

Lesser traces in new conquered lands during middle La tene period mean just Celts were newcomers there as a raiding armies, for a short period of time. From another side they lived in Alpine area. Pannonia, and especially in Marne-Rhine area for many centuries in far greater numbers, that's why La tene is less visible outside that zone.

Cunliffe's theory has some vulnerabilities and i can't agree with some his points, but it much better explains Celtic pre-history, than old unrealistic theory, taken together archaeological, historical and linguistic data doen't make a chance for the latter. And it needed because puts everything in its place and resolve many problems with Celtic pre-history. You can read John Collis book about Celtic origin, for example, to realise what were those problems. British archaeologists detected many significant inconsistencies in old theory since 1960's, Cunliff's work is the first that sort of experience, maybe relatively crude and undigested at some points

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Originally Posted by Fantomas

But if structure of Celtic world in LBA was similar to those in Iron Age with political centre, high kings and even supra-national religious system, so there's nothing surprising that similar system may have existed along Atlantic areas.

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It would be surprising, do you have any evidence of the kind of wealth centralization that Hallstatt noble centers had?

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Also, Atlantic Bronze Age cultures were straight descendants of Late Neolithic/Bell Beaker tribes, so they could have common ethnic backroung and sibling language initially.

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Maybe, but we have no evidence of that, instead we have evidence of very different linguistic group in Iron Age Iberia, we have evidence of very different groups in Iron Age Italy and so on. Linguistic unity is to be proven not assumed.

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There's widespread infiltration of Atlantic bronze wares including weapon just right before Ha C. period, for St Brieuc-des-Iffs, Carp's Tongue' and Ewart Park phases. just right coinciding with Urnfield system collapse. Halstatt is just partially continuation of preceding Urnfield tradition.

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Citation needed:

https://www.academia.edu/3195723/Soc...theast_Hungary

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...d_developments

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Well if you can not believe in presence of Celts in Britain and Iberia in LBA, the only alternative is later conquest of half of Europe by some Halstatt "Genghis Khans"

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Like I said repeatedly before, the Urnfield expansion could also be a candidate for an early incursion into Britain.
Well that's the exact same thing your theory assumes, literally.

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I don't know why these archaeological maps are little different, anyway it doesn't change anything. For maritime transport it's not the serious obstacle.

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So then why did Britan and Ireland diverge at all, if maritime transport is so easy, why do languages divide at all? Are you going to argue that Atlantic Bronze age was more interconnected that 99% of human societies and somehow everything was carried without any political conquest or military or migratory activity?

[QUOTE]Lesser traces in new conquered lands during middle La tene period mean just Celts were newcomers there as a raiding armies, for a short period of time. From another side they lived in Alpine area. Pannonia, and especially in Marne-Rhine area for many centuries in far greater numbers, that's why La tene is less visible outside that zone.[QUOTE]
Celtic was in Italy prior to La Tene, so how do you explain that?

Yes and we have that same influence in England and Ireland too, plus we have comparative evidence in the late pre-Roman iron age in the form of Belgic tribes in England.

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than old unrealistic theory, taken together archaeological, historical and linguistic data doen't make a chance for the latter.

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What exactly IS explained better? If you can use La Tene or Hallstatt or even despite not having them and explain the expansion into Italy, Anatolia and Balkans that way, all without proving anything, why can't you accept this "outdated" theory?

Quote:

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And it needed because puts everything in its place and resolve many problems with Celtic pre-history. You can read John Collis book about Celtic origin, for example, to realise what were those problems. British archaeologists detected many significant inconsistencies in old theory since 1960's, Cunliff's work is the first that sort of experience, maybe relatively crude and undigested at some points

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I don't believe anyone that knows what Cunliffe thinks about Indo-Europeans with the current evidence can or should take him seriously. You can come up with a better theory but this theory simply doesn't work, it relies on too many "ifs" and in trying to argue for it you just vindicate and also remove the weaknesses of the Hallstatt/La Tene theory.

Also John Collis book from 2003? What kind of new knowledge does it have?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SharpFork

It would be surprising, do you have any evidence of the kind of wealth centralization that Hallstatt noble centers had?

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I don't think so. However, Halstatt noble centers system was short-lived experience and were wiped out by new waves of invasions from west. Nothing is known about their poltical power, except it was limited by neighboring small territory, otherwise there would be one great "capital" instead of many small "castles", they're just reach nobles on trading routs. From another side we know about colossal political power of elected late Gaulish kings, in the complete absence of reach burials, seems like it is an Atlantic old tradition.

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Maybe, but we have no evidence of that, instead we have evidence of very different linguistic group in Iron Age Iberia, we have evidence of very different groups in Iron Age Italy and so on. Linguistic unity is to be proven not assumed.

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https://i.imgur.com/N7hkBjO.png
https://i.imgur.com/zUgxBxF.jpg
Celtic deity names in the Iberian Peninsula (After Olivares 2002).

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Citation needed:

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The transition from the Urnfield culture to the Hallstatt period was accompanied by a broad horizon of discontinuity in settlement and burial traditions (cf. Ruoff 1974). This break was common to, and contemporaneous in, the north and the south.12 Climatic deterioration (cf. Smolla 1954; Willerding 1977) and incursions of eastern nomads ('Thraco-Cimmerian horizon'; dismissed by Jockenhovel 1975, 54-55; Torbriigge 1979,209) have been called upon to account for the disruption of the Late Urnfield pattern. But discontinuity and reorganisation are such widespread phenomena of settlement patterns in the transition from the final Bronze Age to the Early Iron Age in Europe that they may best be explained by the economic and social changes resulting from the technological change-over from bronze to iron (Nylen 1974).

The reason for that Urnfield collapse was a transition from bronze to iron, hmmm... very interesting guess

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Like I said repeatedly before, the Urnfield expansion could also be a candidate for an early incursion into Britain.
Well that's the exact same thing your theory assumes, literally.

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And in Iberia as well:p

https://i.imgur.com/oqHplvw.jpg

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So then why did Britan and Ireland diverge at all, if maritime transport is so easy, why do languages divide at all? Are you going to argue that Atlantic Bronze age was more interconnected that 99% of human societies and somehow everything was carried without any political conquest or military or migratory activity?

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By the beginning of Iron Age old contact axis was mainly disrupted because it shifted from Atlantic toward Central Europe and many Atlantic regions had become more isolated, that's the good reason for language divergence . There's a strong enough migratory activity in Late Neolithic/Bell Beaker period

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Celtic was in Italy prior to La Tene, so how do you explain that?

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By Halstatt activity
https://i.imgur.com/iCLZh3H.jpg

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Yes and we have that same influence in England and Ireland too, plus we have comparative evidence in the late pre-Roman iron age in the form of Belgic tribes in England.

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La Tene and especially Belgic tribes are too late and limited events to explain Celtic presence in Islands

Quote:

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What exactly IS explained better? If you can use La Tene or Hallstatt or even despite not having them and explain the expansion into Italy, Anatolia and Balkans that way, all without proving anything, why can't you accept this "outdated" theory?

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I must accept outdated theory just because La Tene in Italy and Anatolia is not deeply rooted? Brilliant logic! Anyway, Celtic homleand and their later invasions were well described by contemporaries.

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Also John Collis book from 2003? What kind of new knowledge does it have?

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Does he changed his mind about failure of obsolete east-west hypothesis since then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SharpFork

I don't believe this makes any sense, mostly unmixed Italian like Celts spreading from the Danube to Ireland?
Plus Italian is the only southern reference. I personally don't see how this evidence changes what we know at all.

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As already said, they presumably would have mixed with more Northern people before settling Britain (by ancient accounts Belgic Gauls were similar to Southern Britons), and the Italian-like admixture would be further diluted for Ireland. It maybe similar to the story of the Early Medieval Germanic expansion in Southern Europe, you can see that the Langobard groups in Northern Italy and Hungary are already highly mixed with the groups they've passed through, so while purely Germanic ancestry in Italy and Spain seems low, the overall effect of Celtic/Roman admixed Germanic speakers in Italy and Spain would be higher.

The high Italian affinity for those countries in the paper seemed inexplicable, but that admixture being of ultimately Celtic origin is the best explanation I can think of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creoda

As already said, they presumably would have mixed with more Northern people before settling Britain (by ancient accounts Belgic Gauls were similar to Southern Britons), and the Italian-like admixture would be further diluted for Ireland. It maybe similar to the story of the Early Medieval Germanic expansion in Southern Europe, you can see that the Langobard groups in Northern Italy and Hungary are already highly mixed with the groups they've passed through, so while purely Germanic ancestry in Italy and Spain seems low, the overall effect of Celtic/Roman admixed Germanic speakers in Italy and Spain would be higher.

The high Italian affinity for those countries in the paper seemed inexplicable, but that admixture being of ultimately Celtic origin is the best explanation I can think of.

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Yea not to mention Celts passed through what is now Germanic territory and many parts of Germany and German speaking countries were Celtic, Celtic is a culture not a single ethnicity, people who try to use ADNA for agenda's usually are really uneducated. They look only at what is there not what is not there.

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Originally Posted by brennus dux gallorum

not all Celts were described as pale, for example if i am not mistaken those who lived in southern England and wales were described as dark

anyway, you, as everyone here make the mistake to see Celts as a racial group instead of linguo-cultural which they really were, and as a linguocultural group they were originated from the same subclade with Italics, just like Germanics came from the same subclade with Balto-slavs

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Nope, it's you that has a misconception since you fail to understand that there is no language without its native speakers. Germanic people were indeed a racial group that is confirmed by DNA. All Germanic tribes the Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, Goths, Teutons& Cimberi, Franks, Langobards/Lombards, Cherusci, Vandals were basically the same people. So the Romans weren't that wrong to lump all Germanics into one basket. The same goes for Arabs, there are indeed ethnic Arabs. Arab is not just merely language and culture. The point is there is such a thing as assimilation and absorption. People from other ethnic groups can be drafted into a distinct ethnic group that is more dominant or larger or just be assimilated. Hence there are terms like arabized, germanized or celtized. For instance, due to the process of Arabization, you have people in North Africa identifying as Arab while they are ethnically speaking Berbers. However, Celtic isn't only a language or culture but also an ethnicity. Besides Celtics and Italics have some genetical and linguistic links because the Bell Beaker who formed the Italic ethnic group came from Germany, Central Europe from a time where Germany was Celtic (prior to the Germanic people's arrival from Scandinavia). Germanic people have nothing to do with Balto-Slavs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean

Yea not to mention Celts passed through what is now Germanic territory and many parts of Germany and German speaking countries were Celtic, Celtic is a culture not a single ethnicity, people who try to use ADNA for agenda's usually are really uneducated. They look only at what is there not what is not there.

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I clicked for thumb up green and the red one showed up. Couldn't fix it. Sorry. However you are spot on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ninjaboy

I clicked for thumb up green and the red one showed up. Couldn't fix it. Sorry. However you are spot on.

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Np, it showed thumbs up :). Germans and Celts are complex terms, Germans have a rich diverse history. We like to think of Germans and Celts as homogeneous familiar things but culture has never been cut and dry nor has ethnicity. If we took every Celt and every German who ever lived we would see quite a few different pictures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ninjaboy

Nope, it's you that has a misconception since you fail to understand that there is no language without its native speakers. Germanic people were indeed a racial group that is confirmed by DNA. All Germanic tribes the Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, Goths, Teutons& Cimberi, Franks, Langobards/Lombards, Cherusci, Vandals were basically the same people. So the Romans weren't that wrong to lump all Germanics into one basket. The same goes for Arabs, there are indeed ethnic Arabs. Arab is not just merely language and culture. The point is there is such a thing as assimilation and absorption. People from other ethnic groups can be drafted into a distinct ethnic group that is more dominant or larger or just be assimilated. Hence there are terms like arabized, germanized or celtized. For instance, due to the process of Arabization, you have people in North Africa identifying as Arab while they are ethnically speaking Berbers. However, Celtic isn't only a language or culture but also an ethnicity. Besides Celtics and Italics have some genetical and linguistic links because the Bell Beaker who formed the Italic ethnic group came from Germany, Central Europe from a time where Germany was Celtic (prior to the Germanic people's arrival from Scandinavia). Germanic people have nothing to do with Balto-Slavs.

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That's true there is a lot of crossover, the differences we see are from groups like Scandinavians, Slavs and Celts that moved through the regions. I do agree that Germans especially continental Germans do have a core affinity.

Davidski/Generalissimo says that Iron Age Celts (presumably of Central Europe) were 'very Northern European'. Also that the Celtic peoples of Northern Italy were French-like.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post713577

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Token

Here are the coordinates, see by yourself. They are from Swiss Iron Age, probably La Tené culture.

Code:

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MX188_scaled,0.117238,0.129988,0.059962,0.057494,0 .021235,0.019801,-0.001645,0,-0.006545,-0.008383,0.000487,0.000749,-0.002081,-0.021194,0.013165,0.022142,0.004955,0.002534,-0.002388,0.010505,0.007362,0.003586,-0.003328,0.001205,-0.007544
MX190_scaled,0.126344,0.135065,0.059585,0.062016,0 .025235,0.030399,0.007285,0.008769,-0.008795,-0.002734,-0.009419,0,-0.014271,-0.015276,0.013843,0.008088,0.00352,-0.003674,-0.002011,0.007629,0.003868,0.009892,0.008997,-0.00976,-0.002036
MX192_scaled,0.124067,0.120848,0.066373,0.062339,0 .025235,0.023148,-0.008695,0.004384,-0.006954,-0.001276,0.002598,-0.003597,-0.007879,-0.00812,0.019679,0.021082,0.011995,0.003167,0,0.00 2376,0.00836,0.001607,-0.003944,0.002048,0.002634
MX195_scaled,0.122929,0.120848,0.064865,0.065892,0 .02185,0.026216,-0.00094,0.002538,-0.003068,-0.008201,0,0.002248,-0.010555,-0.008945,0.020629,0.024264,0.008996,-0.005194,-0.005782,0.008379,-0.00262,0.00371,0.000986,0.003012,0.001317

MX188,0.0103,0.0128,0.0159,0.0178,0.0069,0.0071,-0.0007,0,-0.0032,-0.0046,0.0003,0.0005,-0.0014,-0.0154,0.0097,0.0167,0.0038,0.002,-0.0019,0.0084,0.0059,0.0029,-0.0027,0.001,-0.0063
MX190,0.0111,0.0133,0.0158,0.0192,0.0082,0.0109,0. 0031,0.0038,-0.0043,-0.0015,-0.0058,0,-0.0096,-0.0111,0.0102,0.0061,0.0027,-0.0029,-0.0016,0.0061,0.0031,0.008,0.0073,-0.0081,-0.0017
MX192,0.0109,0.0119,0.0176,0.0193,0.0082,0.0083,-0.0037,0.0019,-0.0034,-0.0007,0.0016,-0.0024,-0.0053,-0.0059,0.0145,0.0159,0.0092,0.0025,0,0.0019,0.0067 ,0.0013,-0.0032,0.0017,0.0022
MX195,0.0108,0.0119,0.0172,0.0204,0.0071,0.0094,-0.0004,0.0011,-0.0015,-0.0045,0,0.0015,-0.0071,-0.0065,0.0152,0.0183,0.0069,-0.0041,-0.0046,0.0067,-0.0021,0.003,0.0008,0.0025,0.0011

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Are these samples really La Tène? (honest question)

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Originally Posted by Ethel

Are these samples really La Tène? (honest question)

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This is an old thread, they were misdated, Bell Beaker or Early Bronze Age.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creoda

This is an old thread, they were misdated, Bell Beaker or Early Bronze Age.

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:(

Celts were spread throughout Europe, mainly in the British Isles, Northwestern Europe, and Central Europe. A lot of people don't know this (unless they're interested in ancient cultures), because the Romans destroyed most traces of Celtic cultures in mainland Europe. The Celts of the British Isles, specifically the Celtic tribes that are the ancestors of the modern Irish people, were the most successful in terms of keeping their culture intact, thus many uninformed people think only of the Irish when they hear the term "Celtic."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InfamousAngel99

Celts were spread throughout Europe, mainly in the British Isles, Northwestern Europe, and Central Europe. A lot of people don't know this (unless they're interested in ancient cultures), because the Romans destroyed most traces of Celtic cultures in mainland Europe. The Celts of the British Isles, specifically the Celtic tribes that are the ancestors of the modern Irish people, were the most successful in terms of keeping their culture intact, thus many uninformed people think only of the Irish when they hear the term "Celtic."

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You might not know this but the largest concentration of celtic remains in Europe are in NW Spain (including Castilla), where castros (celtic villages), toponymia, and things like these still exist:
https://lascatedrales.com/blog/wp-co...anta-tecla.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/05/99...b494cb63fb.jpg
http://www.galiciaenfotos.com/wp-con...4/01-13495.jpg

Or this altar of sacrifices:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8f4mpzARR...1600/ALTAR.jpg



Or petroglifos:
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/me...s-de-mogor.jpg


The Romans were good at erasing old cultures.

We have tree theories abt the origin of Celts:
From East: Proto Celts are descendants of Urfield culture and the proto-celtic was born in Central Europe BA and was begin developed with the times (Hallsttat and La Tene)
From Center: Says that Celts come from BA France (aka Gauls) and expanded, not too much diferent from East theorie since both comes from Bell BEakers of Central Europe
From West: Celt culture was born since atlantic bronze age and was a language used by the West Atlantid ppl for trades, but that theorie dont explains why in the same time of when the celt culture was spread in Europe the ancestry from Urnfield iwas spread in all parts of Europe which were culturally celtic too, why Iberians from IA got Urnfield ancestry in the time that celtic trait appears in iberia? thats dont looks like a coincidence . .

after all, the early celts were very prob from Central Europe, descendants of Bell Beakers and clustering with Central Frenchs and Alpine Europe, so no they werent N. Europeans.

The average of samples from La tene, Hallsttat and Gauls all are abt 40% Yamnaya, the celts were kinda heterogenous but the average of yamnaya blood was abt 35% - 43%

https://pastebin.com/u9YNXWuY

https://i.imgur.com/Wot2Z6j.png
https://i.imgur.com/3Vn7vtZ.png

as u all can see, typicals Central Europeans, not Northern

Do you think original celts and germanics is probably same people with different cultures?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jingle Bell

We have tree theories abt the origin of Celts:
From East: Proto Celts are descendants of Urfield culture and the proto-celtic was born in Central Europe BA and was begin developed with the times (Hallsttat and La Tene)
From Center: Says that Celts come from BA France (aka Gauls) and expanded, not too much diferent from East theorie since both comes from Bell BEakers of Central Europe
From West: Celt culture was born since atlantic bronze age and was a language used by the West Atlantid ppl for trades, but that theorie dont explains why in the same time of when the celt culture was spread in Europe the ancestry from Urnfield iwas spread in all parts of Europe which were culturally celtic too, why Iberians from IA got Urnfield ancestry in the time that celtic trait appears in iberia? thats dont looks like a coincidence . .

after all, the early celts were very prob from Central Europe, descendants of Bell Beakers and clustering with Central Frenchs and Alpine Europe, so no they werent N. Europeans.

The average of samples from La tene, Hallsttat and Gauls all are abt 40% Yamnaya, the celts were kinda heterogenous but the average of yamnaya blood was abt 35% - 43%

https://pastebin.com/u9YNXWuY

https://i.imgur.com/Wot2Z6j.png
https://i.imgur.com/3Vn7vtZ.png

as u all can see, typicals Central Europeans, not Northern

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Jingle why early celts always score a lot of germanic? They was probably same people but with different culture? They was known as to be tall and blonde

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Originally Posted by Creoda

Slightly altered XP's model, some of the most pure individuals for Germanic and added England MBA for pre-Celtic Briton

Code:

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ImperialRoman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1,0.1069937,0.14860 57,-0.0248897,-0.0551253,0.0057443,-0.016083,-0.0018017,-0.003769,0.0008863,0.0154293,0.007091,0.0059443,-0.008325,0.000642,-0.0068313,-0.0010607,0.008388,-0.001098,0.004483,0.0007087,-0.001539,0.002267,0.0031223,0.0018077,0.0015967
Celtic:SX18_scaled,0.126344,0.152329,0.048271,-0.00646,0.051394,-0.007251,0.0047,-0.000692,0.016362,0.035354,0.002598,0.016485,-0.016055,-0.006055,0.001629,0.000663,0.006128,0.00266,0.0038 97,-0.006628,0.006364,0.006183,-0.011709,-0.006145,0.000958
Celtic: DEU_Lech_EBA_AITI_119,0.121791,0.140143,0.05242,0. 026486,0.040623,0.003068,0.001175,0.001154,0.00347 7,0.017859,-0.001299,0.01124,-0.020961,-0.019818,0.01045,0.02201,0.01708,-0.0019,0.009679,0.002376,0.007986,0.003957,-0.005053,0.000964,0.008382
Celtic: DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_44,0.124067,0.144205,0.056568,0. 008721,0.04924,-0.001952,-0.00188,0.000692,0.008795,0.028247,0.001299,0.0092 92,-0.017988,-0.003028,0.005293,0.008353,-0.002608,-0.00266,0.004525,0.001126,-0.008235,-0.008285,-0.001356,-0.002651,-0.003233
Celtic: DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_50,0.120652,0.153345,0.043746,-0.002584,0.052933,-0.003347,-0.00329,-0.002077,0.022293,0.031162,-0.005846,0.008692,-0.022299,-0.010459,-0.002172,0.014585,0.021253,0.004307,0.001257,-0.005753,0.00262,0.000124,0.002835,-0.005181,-0.010418
Celtic: DEU_Lech_MBA_OTTM_151ind2_d,0.127482,0.156392,0.04 7894,0.005491,0.04647,-0.011435,0.00329,0.011538,0.010022,0.031345,0.0064 96,0.012889,-0.012487,-0.01156,-0.0095,0.000796,0.001565,-0.003801,-0.005656,0.005753,-0.002995,0.009521,-0.001356,-0.006386,-0.011855
Celtic: DEU_Welzin_BA_outlier3_WEZ57,0.129758,0.142174,0.0 50911,0.039406,0.044316,0.007251,-0.004935,0.008538,0.028429,0.024237,0.007957,0.007 194,-0.008622,-0.012248,-0.000407,0.004906,-0.000652,0.001014,-0.003017,0.000375,0.012852,0.009645,-0.009983,0.005784,-0.004071
Celtic:CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany_DA111,0.124067,0.15131 4,0.063356,0.026163,0.0437,0.005857,0.001175,0.002 308,0.020861,0.02442,-0.012342,0.00015,-0.01665,-0.003165,0.014658,-0.009546,-0.018254,0.003801,0.005908,0.001626,0.009858,0.006 059,-0.004437,-0.005904,-0.005269
Celtic:St_Gallen_SX20,0.129758,0.147252,0.055814,0 .012274,0.055087,0.009203,0.001175,0.001846,0.0139 08,0.0277,-0.003897,0.012589,-0.019623,-0.007707,0.005293,-0.008884,-0.017341,-0.003801,0.001006,-0.008504,-0.003494,0.004699,-0.002711,-0.006266,-0.00479
Celtic:Constance_MX254_2,0.130897,0.136081,0.05543 7,0.024871,0.041854,0.00251,0.0047,0.006231,0.0177 94,0.024784,-0.004384,0.007493,-0.016501,-0.014313,0.003122,0.018165,0.014473,0.003547,-0.002388,5e-04,-0.004243,0.011129,0.001479,-0.010483,0.001317
Celtic:Constance_MX283,0.126344,0.137096,0.057322, 0.023579,0.050779,-0.003068,0.001175,0.003,0.020043,0.035172,-0.005521,0.009591,-0.014866,-0.009083,-0.000814,0.022408,0.016689,0.000127,0.004022,-0.002376,-0.001497,0.00643,-0.00456,-0.010242,0.001437
Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker:Scotland_LBA,0.1297585,0.133542,0.0630732,0 .0527298,0.0351605,0.0193132,0.0061102,0.0030575,0 .001892,-0.0027338,-0.0060082,0.0064818,-0.0180252,-0.0164115,0.024226,0.0058672,-0.0143422,0.0036108,0.0032995,0.0005313,0.0056462, 0.0044822,-0.0003393,0.0042172,0.0041315
Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker:England_MBA,0.1270132,0.1290916,0.0630678,0.059755,0.0341783,0.019916,0.0014929,0.0049274,0.0045958,-0.0013935,-0.0047379,0.0039671,-0.0111495,-0.0156566,0.0246771,0.0091564,-0.0059516,0.0030703,0.0009834,0.0039871,0.0046975,0.0047133,-0.0006381,0.0058335,-0.0012045
Italic:ITA_Rome_Latini_IA_RMPR1016,0.127482,0.1472 52,0.033187,-0.016796,0.044008,-0.008646,-0.00376,-0.004846,0.026588,0.052666,-0.002761,0.015137,-0.036719,-0.008533,-0.009093,0.013392,0.016037,-0.004687,0.003897,0.004127,0.00262,-0.00272,0.001972,-0.007712,-0.008742
Italic:ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_RMPR851,0.133173,0.1563 92,0.0445,-0.00969,0.044008,-0.004462,0.00846,0.003,0.024543,0.044101,-0.002598,0.012289,-0.022448,-0.009634,-0.005429,-0.005834,0.00352,0.003167,0.006034,-0.007379,-0.008859,0.005317,-0.000863,-0.006989,-0.001796
Germanic:England_Saxon:I0773,0.141141,0.126941,0.063356,0.071383,0.044008,0.024263,0.00799,0.011307,0.00409,-0.00656,-0.005359,0.005395,-0.01219,-0.013074,0.021172,0.011668,-0.001434,0.000887,0.008673,0.008629,0.010981,0.003957,-0.003081,0.015544,-0.007424
Germanic:ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian:VDP-A-5,0.126344,0.123895,0.076555,0.062016,0.03139,0.018128,0.007755,0.007615,0.009204,-0.007472,0.001624,0.007493,-0.009514,-0.018992,0.025651,0.02254,0.01356,0.004814,0.000377,0.002876,0.004742,0.005935,0.002095,0.012652,-0.00467
Germanic:DEU_MA:AED_106,0.125205,0.133034,0.064865,0.067184,0.03416,0.020917,0.00517,0.008769,0.002863,-0.009476,-0.006171,0.002548,-0.012042,-0.006193,0.019544,0.008486,0.015255,-0.006968,-0.015964,0.005503,-0.003244,0.012736,-0.017378,0.005422,-0.000239
Germanic:DEU_MA:AED_249,0.125205,0.126941,0.071653,0.04845,0.043085,0.023706,0.020211,0.001385,0.003477,-0.01057,-0.011854,-0.002398,-0.009663,0.003303,0.019679,-0.002784,-0.026598,-0.001774,0.004148,0.00988,0.01697,-0.006554,0.000123,0.007953,0.010658
Mozabite,-0.0649782,0.135551,-0.0032793,-0.0717622,0.0260249,-0.0328364,-0.0260656,0.0108257,0.0617306,0.0303463,0.0065097,-0.006366,0.021795,-0.0165685,0.0163159,-0.016176,-0.0027097,-0.0219282,-0.0435571,0.0082757,-0.0146263,-0.0367947,0.0246817,-0.0042277,0.0056594
Iberia_Central_BA,0.1239044,0.1505886,0.059639,0.0 003691,0.0686281,-0.0074901,-0.0052371,-0.0001319,0.0395609,0.0550354,-0.0029926,0.01291,-0.0243167,-0.019621,0.0066116,0.0103233,0.0156089,-0.0004163,-0.0021549,0.0007146,0.0115154,-0.0001766,-0.0088561,-0.020261,0.0028397

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Code:

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Target: Creoda_scaled
Distance: 1.7769% / 0.01776939
61.2        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker
20.6        Germanic
18.2        Celtic

Target: CreodaMum_scaled
Distance: 1.1707% / 0.01170711
54.4        Germanic
23.6        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker
14.0        Celtic
4.0        ImperialRoman
4.0        Italic

Target: CreodaDad_scaled
Distance: 2.4566% / 0.02456600
55.6        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker
26.8        Germanic
17.6        Celtic

Target: English
Distance: 1.0643% / 0.01064280
38.8        Germanic
33.4        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker
23.8        Celtic
3.2        ImperialRoman
0.8        Italic

Target: English_Cornwall
Distance: 1.2100% / 0.01209999
33.8        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker
33.8        Germanic
30.0        Celtic
1.4        ImperialRoman
1.0        Mozabite

Target: Scottish
Distance: 1.0600% / 0.01059965
52.0        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker
29.2        Germanic
16.2        Celtic
2.6        ImperialRoman

Target: Welsh
Distance: 0.8879% / 0.00887907
36.4        Germanic
34.2        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker
25.2        Celtic
4.2        ImperialRoman

Target: Irish
Distance: 1.2474% / 0.01247421
61.2        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker
25.2        Germanic
11.4        Celtic
2.0        ImperialRoman
0.2        Mozabite

---

---

i added these samples , with your samples i was getting all celtic

Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1310,0.12 1791,0.152329,0.059208,0.007429,0.070782,-0.009482,-0.00329,-0.001846,0.039473,0.05704,-0.001299,0.010191,-0.017393,-0.017203,0.005429,0.015248,0.016298,-0.006841,-0.000628,0.002126,-0.001622,0.006183,-0.007518,-0.025064,-0.000599
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1313_d,0. 122929,0.152329,0.058831,-0.004845,0.064012,-0.019522,-0.008695,-0.001154,0.041927,0.047564,0.000325,0.010041,-0.029732,-0.011836,0.002036,0.010607,0.021774,0.005701,0.004 651,0.007379,0.01959,0.005935,-0.013311,-0.008555,0.001317
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1836,0.12 9758,0.157407,0.058454,-0.00323,0.059396,-0.000558,-0.00141,-0.003231,0.039064,0.04811,0.00065,0.006145,-0.029435,-0.021332,0.002443,0.011535,0.008214,0.000127,-0.00176,-0.001251,0.008859,0.010016,-0.007765,-0.016629,-0.007544
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4559,0.12 862,0.14319,0.062979,0.006783,0.07386,-0.004462,0.006345,0.000231,0.047859,0.062689,0.000 325,0.008093,-0.021407,-0.020368,-0.000679,0.02254,0.015646,-0.005068,0.00176,0.013506,0.010731,0.004328,-0.010723,-0.016267,0.002395
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4560,0.12 7482,0.151314,0.059962,0.008398,0.063704,-0.005578,-0.00658,0.004154,0.025361,0.061049,-0.008931,0.007793,-0.029435,-0.019267,-0.005157,0.009016,0.025816,0.001394,-0.005656,0.003752,0.003119,-0.006677,-0.015406,-0.015183,0.003233
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4561,0.13 0897,0.144205,0.064488,0.011305,0.065858,0.004462, 0.00235,0,0.041723,0.054853,-0.003897,0.015137,-0.026164,-0.018029,-0.000271,0.003713,-0.002868,0.008108,0.006662,0.001751,0.015348,-0.003957,-0.016392,-0.014219,-0.001078
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4562,0.12 2929,0.152329,0.062979,-0.001938,0.065551,-0.007251,0.00235,-0.001154,0.039473,0.055035,-0.007957,0.004346,-0.024232,-0.016102,0.004343,0.008884,0.00339,-0.000127,0.000503,0.003502,0.010232,0.004081,-0.01023,-0.022654,0.006586
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4563,0.12 6344,0.149283,0.059962,0.001615,0.072013,-0.00502,0.00235,-0.000923,0.035792,0.054124,-0.001786,0.010641,-0.027354,-0.023121,-0.001764,0.004243,0.002868,-0.000507,0.001885,0.00075,0.020214,-0.00136,-0.02391,-0.012532,-0.001557
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southeast_BA:I3494,0.12 7482,0.158423,0.057322,-0.017442,0.07109,-0.00753,-0.010105,0.004846,0.0452,0.073806,-0.004872,0.012439,-0.020218,-0.014588,0.00665,0.001724,-0.000261,0.009755,-0.002011,0.001,0.011355,-0.001607,-0.009244,-0.029281,0.001557
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southeast_BA:I3997,0.12 2929,0.160454,0.053928,-0.002584,0.06832,-0.013108,-0.0047,0.005307,0.046836,0.072165,0.000812,0.01378 8,-0.032259,-0.032754,0.006786,0.020817,0.024121,-0.005574,-0.006662,-0.001251,0.003369,0.004946,-0.008381,-0.025184,0.000599
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southeast_BA:I8136,0.12 5205,0.15436,0.053928,-0.004845,0.069244,-0.006693,-0.00752,0.009,0.055221,0.06925,-0.001786,0.014687,-0.030773,-0.013487,0.000814,-0.001193,0.004172,-0.004181,0.010307,-0.007379,0.012104,0.003215,-0.002095,-0.020003,-0.005149
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southeast_BA:I8570,0.13 2035,0.155376,0.057322,-0.004522,0.058472,0.000279,-0.0047,0.002308,0.044995,0.05376,-0.001624,0.005695,-0.020069,-0.010046,0.00665,0.001326,-0.007041,-0.006714,0.00088,0.008879,0.008111,-0.002226,0.000246,-0.010242,-0.001197
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Mallorca_EBA:I4329,0.120652,0.143 19,0.056568,0.008398,0.054472,0,0,0.005077,0.02311 1,0.043008,-0.012179,0.014087,-0.027502,-0.017891,0.0076,0.006895,0.010691,-0.002914,0.003268,-0.011756,-0.001747,-0.006183,-0.016885,-0.006868,0.0097
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southwest_BA:I10939,0.1 17238,0.144205,0.043369,-0.014212,0.055395,-0.014223,0.00094,0.001846,0.047654,0.060685,-0.003735,0.007343,-0.018583,-0.014726,0.007329,0.007425,-0.001956,-0.006841,0,0.001251,0.018093,0.002349,-0.000863,-0.030486,0.002754
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southwest_BA:I10941,0.1 22929,0.155376,0.057699,-0.012597,0.072937,-0.01255,-0.004935,0.007615,0.044382,0.064147,-0.003735,0.017085,-0.027205,-0.011698,0.004614,-0.009016,-0.005607,-0.000887,0.003142,0.004877,0.01123,-0.000866,-0.014297,-0.022533,0.001676
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Central_BA:I12208,0.119 514,0.155376,0.049026,-0.001292,0.067089,-0.00753,-0.00141,-0.000692,0.044791,0.055582,0.00065,0.015736,-0.026016,-0.023946,0.006515,0.014585,0.024251,-0.006208,-0.004902,-0.003627,0.010232,-0.00272,-0.010969,-0.016629,-0.001557
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Central_BA:I12209,0.120 652,0.147252,0.058831,-0.002907,0.068013,-0.005578,-0.001645,0.000923,0.037837,0.049022,0.000812,0.011 24,-0.025124,-0.022983,0.009772,0.012198,0.024121,0.001394,-0.006788,0.006378,0.009733,-0.006677,-0.008011,-0.017231,0.010418
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Central_BA:I3490,0.1297 58,0.153345,0.070522,0.005168,0.069551,-0.006414,-0.00987,-0.003923,0.039678,0.05212,-0.004872,0.015886,-0.018285,-0.011147,0.008143,0.008221,0.008084,0.000507,0.002 765,-0.005127,0.007986,0.004451,-0.018487,-0.033258,-0.005149
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Central_BA:I3493,0.1274 82,0.13405,0.050534,-0.001615,0.066782,-0.004183,-0.00752,0.006692,0.038655,0.050479,-0.012342,0.010491,-0.02557,-0.021332,0.010993,0.02148,0.011735,0.00114,-0.006034,0.002876,0.022336,0.005441,0.001972,-0.008435,0.008382
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Central_BA:I3756,0.1240 67,0.149283,0.06675,0.001615,0.07386,-0.013666,-0.002115,-0.006,0.033951,0.06761,-0.009743,0.014387,-0.032408,-0.024497,0.007193,0.01432,0.023991,-0.002027,0.001006,-0.006628,0.00836,-0.004575,-0.006532,-0.025425,-0.004191
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Central_BA:I6470,0.1263 44,0.148267,0.059962,0.002907,0.061858,-0.001394,-0.00799,0.001846,0.042541,0.049933,0.000974,0.0071 94,-0.022299,-0.017478,0.007329,0.003978,0.007953,0.001647,-0.000754,0.004502,0.016221,0,-0.013557,-0.023859,0.008502
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_Central_BA:I6618,0.1195 14,0.166547,0.061848,-0.001292,0.073244,-0.013666,-0.00611,0.000231,0.039473,0.060502,0.003573,0.0154 36,-0.020515,-0.015964,-0.003664,-0.002519,0.009127,0.000633,-0.000377,0.006628,0.00574,0.002844,-0.006409,-0.01699,0.003473
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_North_BA:I1840,0.127482 ,0.155376,0.059585,0.003553,0.077245,-0.005299,-0.005405,0.003,0.034565,0.052484,-0.001624,0.014687,-0.020664,-0.018166,0.001764,0.018563,0.021122,0.002027,0.002 137,0.005628,0.010856,0.003586,-0.004067,-0.034463,0.010059
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_North_BA:I2470,0.120652 ,0.158423,0.05506,0.000969,0.062781,-0.007251,-0.00141,0.004384,0.041927,0.057951,-0.002761,0.007793,-0.016353,-0.011147,0.001357,-0.006497,-0.01369,0.011655,-0.005405,-0.014507,0.010606,0.001484,-0.012325,-0.0241,-0.002036
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_North_BA:I2471,0.126344 ,0.155376,0.058077,-0.001292,0.063704,0.00251,0.000235,0.013153,0.0255 65,0.048839,-0.004384,0.010191,-0.018583,-0.005643,0.006107,-0.001193,-0.004042,0.006968,-0.005908,-0.002001,0.005989,0.011747,-0.009983,-0.003976,0.00455
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_North_BA:VAD001,0.12862 ,0.147252,0.053174,0.008398,0.070475,0,-0.011516,0.007384,0.033746,0.058862,-0.003085,0.011839,-0.020515,-0.027112,0.007465,0.014585,0.022296,-0.003547,-0.012318,0.003502,0.014474,0.010016,-0.007641,-0.017111,0.001317
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_North_BA:VAD004,0.12065 2,0.15436,0.052043,0.006783,0.06155,-0.007809,0.004935,0.002308,0.030679,0.058133,-0.005034,0.007643,-0.034192,-0.011698,0.015201,-0.010475,0.002217,0.005701,0.009427,-0.01038,0.006738,0.006306,-0.005669,-0.012411,0.010418
Iberia_BA:Iberia_BA:Iberia_North_BA:VAD005,0.12179 1,0.157407,0.055437,0.008721,0.072013,0.003347,-0.00188,-0.007154,0.03845,0.053942,-0.008931,0.005845,-0.015163,-0.018854,0.007057,0.013657,0.026729,0.006714,0.005 028,0.002626,0.006364,0.000742,-0.016392,-0.022172,-0.001796
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Formentera_MBA:I4420_all,0.120652 ,0.151314,0.048649,-0.002261,0.056934,-0.009203,-0.003995,0.004384,0.035792,0.058133,-0.001461,0.01079,-0.02438,-0.022845,0.004479,0.008884,0.012126,-0.001014,-0.003268,-0.002376,0.006114,0.000124,-0.000493,-0.01687,0.002275

so my result

Target: celtiville_scaled
Distance: 1.6245% / 0.01624514
23.4 Iberia_BA
16.8 Volta–Niger
16.4 Celtic
12.2 Germanic
10.0 Amerindian
9.0 Mozabite
8.2 Bantu-East
4.0 ImperialRoman