Printable View
^^^
That's not what Sven told me, he said, quote: "she is a Sorb, but Sorbian culture was suppressed in this area [by Germanization]".
Even you did not strongly insist on calling that individual German back then. You have changed your mind after 3 years.
There was only this academic one. Another user removed it, and now Stearsolina requested it to be added back to the sheet.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroLP
something like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroLP
https://i.imgur.com/EkK9Ja2.png
I didn't want to update the average yet, because I feel these new averages are still weak, and using those regionally mixed academic samples feels more reliable.
It isn't so clear cut. Bosniaks from eastern Bosnia have some dialectal and genetic similarities with Sandžak. There is also a difference between eastern and western Sandžak, the latter has little Albanian influence and it should get it's own average when enough samples are connected.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroLP
Also, if we apply this criterium to the Bosniaks, it should be applied to all other averages in the sheet too. And the current sheet is made with respect to ethnic self-identification, not country borders, so it would require a lot of changing.
Most of the scientific papers on the population of B&H sample a lot of Sandžak Bosniaks living in Sarajevo, they shouldn't be taken as some measure of quality.
Current Bosniak average is the one of Bosniaks from Bosnia, excluding Sandzak Bosniaks, so I don't know why should it be replaced back with the academic one, but I am not an expert on them as people from that region so I may be wrong.
It's not replaced, it was just renamed to Bosniak central and northeastern, because all the samples in that (current) average are from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunai
I've learned Sanzhak is not even part of BiH. I thought it was Southern Bosnia :D How are they "the future of the Bonsiaks", according to Varda?..
They have very good birth rate for the region, while Bosniak population in BiH is declining. Southern part of BiH is called Herzegovina btw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
So called Sandžak is in southwestern Serbia and northern/northeastern Montenegro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SandžakQuote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Why is Canton Sarajevo added to the Southeast? Doesn't geographically makes more sense having it make Central Bosnian average with Srednjobosanski and Zeničko-Dobojski Canton; Tuzla Canton and other blue area making Northeast average; else is obviously divided between Northwestern and Southeastern average? Do we have enough samples to try something like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Historical_regions_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina.svg
Bosnia.regions.jpeg
Bosnia.AIPUB regions.jpg
I meant both Y-DNA and atDNA. In scientific and genetic genealogical samples we see a clear general difference between Bosniaks from BiH and Sandak on both Y-DNA and atDNA. The latter population is not Bosniaks. Nobody when thinks about Bosniaks thinks about Sandak. It is only confusing and misleading people. They became Bosniaks by ethnic identification only in recent history because of religious identification with ethnic identities in Western Balkans - Muslims became Bosniaks. In pre-Yugoslavian censuses, Sandak Muslims were ethnically identified mostly as Albanians. We already have a kind of controversial chronology of identification of Muslim Bosniaks as Muslims and then as Bosniaks in BiH. The one with Sandak Muslims is even more complex and adding it up only makes it harder instead of making genetic comparisons easier, its not pragmatic anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
The farthest regional and supraregional Croatian averages have a distance of 8.9 (Herzegovina-Northwest) and 6.0 (South-North) while from the Croatian national average 2.7 and 3.2.
The farthest regional Serbian averages have a distance of 3.9 (Herzegovina-Republika Srpska), 4.28 (South-Republika Srpska), or 7.1 (Montenegro-Republika Srpska) while from the Serbian national average of 1.7-2.3-4.9
"Bosniak_Sandak" average has the farthest distance of staggering 13.2 from "Bosniak_Central_Northeast" and closest distance of only 7.06 from "Bosniak_Southeast" while from the Bosniak "old-new" national average of 9.8 - to "Albanian Gheg" is 8.89 and 9.84 to "Albanian". They are closer to Gheg Albanians than to Bosniaks from BiH. They are obviously not part of the same (Bosniak) ethnic population.
Quote:
The population of the sanjak of Novi Pazar was ethnically and religiously diverse. In 1878-81, Muslim Slav muhacirs (refugees) from areas which became part of Montenegro, settled in the sanjak. As Ottoman institutions only registered religious affiliation, official Ottoman statistics about ethnicity do not exist. Austrian, Bulgarian and Serbian consulates in the area produced their own ethnographic estimations about the sanjak. In general, three main groups lived in the region: Orthodox Serbs, Muslim Albanians and Muslim Slavs (noted in contemporary sources as Bosnian or Herzegovinian Muslims). Small communities of Romani, Turks and Jews lived mainly in towns. The Bulgarian foreign ministry compiled a report in 1901-02. The five kazas (districs) of the sanjak of the Novi Pazar at that time were: Akova, Sjenica, Kolain, Novi Pazar and Novi Varo. According to the Bulgarian report, in the kaza of Akova there were 47 Albanian villages which had 1,266 households. Serbs lived in 11 villages which had 216 households.[53] The town of Akova (Bijelo Polje) had 100 Albanian and Serb households. There were also mixed villages - inhabited by both Serbs and Albanians - which had 115 households with 575 inhabitants. The kaza of Sjenica was inhabited mainly by Orthodox Serbs (69 villages with 624 households) and Bosnian Muslims (46 villages with 655 households). Seventeen villages had a population of both Orthodox Serbs and Bosnian Muslims. Albanians (505 households) lived exclusively in the town of Sjenica. The kaza of Novi Pazar had 1,749 households in 244 Serb villages and 896 households in 81 Albanian villages. Nine villages inhabited by both Serbs and Albanians had 173 households. The town of Novi Pazar had a total of 1,749 Serb and Albanian households with 8,745 inhabitants.[54] The kaza of Kolain had 27 Albanian villages with 732 households and 5 Serb villages with 75 households. The administrative centre of the kaza, ahovići, had 25 Albanian households. The kaza of Novi Varo, according the Bulgarian report, had 19 Serbian villages with 298 households and "one Bosnian village with 200 houses".[55] Novi Varo had 725 Serb and some Albanian households.[56]
The last official registration of the population of the sanjak of Novi Pazar before the Balkan Wars was conducted in 1910. The 1910 Ottoman census recorded 52,833 Muslims and 27,814 Orthodox Serbs. About 65% of the population were Muslims and 35% Serbian Orthodox. The majority of the Muslim population were Albanians. [57]
Sandak is a very ethnically diverse region. Most Bosniaks declared themselves ethnic Muslims in 1991 census. By the 2002-2003 census, however, most of them declared themselves Bosniaks. There is still a significant minority that identify as Muslims (by ethnicity). There are still some Albanian villages (Borotica, Doliće and Ugao) in the Peter region.[58] There were a larger presence of Albanians in Sandak in the past, however due to various factors such as migration, assimilation, along with mixing, many identify as Bosniaks instead.[18][59][60]
The Slavic dialect of Gusinje and Plav (sometimes considered part of Sandak) shows very high structural influence from Albanian. Its uniqueness in terms of language contact between Albanian and Slavic is explained by the fact that most Slavic-speakers in today's Plav and Gusinje are of Albanian origin.[61]
The issue is that some of the biggest Bosniak nationalists come from Sandak. Surely at least 80% of them feel no different from their muslim brethern from Bosnia and considerably closer to them than to the neighbouring Serbo-Montenegrins and Albanians. The amount of people who identify as "Bosniak" instead of "Muslim" keeps dropping with every passing census. Heck, the best proof of how successful the assimilation process has been in that region is the very fact that their DNA project is being run by Sandakians :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroLP
And lastly, like everyone (but them) knows, the Bosniak ethnic identity is a modern-day invention that has an exclusive basis in islam. The same criteria that's applied to Serbs, Croats, Albanians, Bulgarians, etc. cannot be applied to them.
I merged them that way to make use of them, because there's very few samples, less than 10 for each of these averages, but with some obvious regional differences.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroLP
When enough samples are collected, I would divide them this way:
Northern Bosnia (Usora and Soli)
Central Bosnia (usual definiton)
Eastern Bosnia (Sarajevo and Podrinje)
West Herzegovina
East Herzegovina
West Krajina
East Krajina
West Sandžak
East Sandžak
The west/east division used where there's evidence for different genetic clusters. for example, these are both Bosniaks from Herzegovina
this can hardly be the same genetic group, if yes, then these are extreme outliers in different directions.Code:a,26.17,23.06,19.93,9.86,16.80,1.88,0.15,0.26,0.35,0.01,1.54,0.00,0.00
b,22.27,34.00,17.38,5.81,15.60,2.77,0.00,0.42,1.00,0.32,0.00,0.41,0.00
I am talking about genetics not politics. They are free to think, feel and do how they like it. Good for them and those Sandžakians have done a good job with their DNA project.Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonSense
As for Bosniak ethnic identity it is more complex than how you presented it. It does have strong medieval basis, as those mentioned, while correlation with religious affiliation like Croatian and Serbian. All of them are more or less modern inventions.
No, because the ancestors of these people rejected their medieval heritage the moment they accepted islam. None of those wealthy beys had any clue who Tvrtko and Kulin ban were or their own connection to the land. Hell, most of them simply identified as Turks :D Serbs and Croats on the other hand have always been adherents to the same faith and their folklore and heritage reflect their medieval and post-medieval past.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroLP
Some of the modern cohesive factors of the Bosniak identity were only recently brought up by their intelectual elites, i. e. the stećci, krstjani, etc.
When accepted Christianity and other cultural customs did pagan Croats and Serbs become Greco-Romans or Judeo-Christians? No, but could have. Let's leave it at it is complex...Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonSense
Serbs and Croats have ethnic consciousness from centuries, gaining legitimacy to build an ethnic identity despite moving territories (that's why there are Serbs and Croats outside proper Serbia and Croatia), that have become natural feelings, even if there are some genetical heterogeneity.
In the case of Bosniaks, it's a recent identification that came too late in the course of history (ethnic nationalism was a 19th century concept), in the sense that in our postmodern globalized world, the ethnic-national identities are much more liquid and less relevant than before, so it's hard to create a strong identity in the late 20th-early 21st centuries. This is also why they are unable to maintain a functional state because there is no central Bosnia identity firstly, and not even strong Bosniak identity to impose it over others. IMO Bosnia Bosniaks would be better off to let Republika Srpska join Serbia and to be annexed to Croatia.
Another controversial case is the Serb-Montenegrin division, as we can say in the political scene of Montenegro.
Greeks had an empire and great civilizations for centuries, they have been able to assimilate colonized people in Anatolia and Islands; so despite genetic diversity nowadays (especially with Pontians, Cypriots, Cappadoceans), they have a strong pan-Hellenic identity that legitimize the Greek umbrella identity.
Same with Turks, it's a large country of more than 2000 km, with regional differences between West and East and North, but unified for centuries under a civilization and empire (Ottoman-Islamic), that legitimize a common Turkish ethnic identity between a Yörük from Southwest and a Trabzonian from Northeast.
Nice post, but the confusion arises between the meaning of Bosnian and Bosniak. The former is medieval and they are trying to reconnect it with the post-Ottoman & more modern identity. It is legitimate since it is still the same population and dialect. The same history they inherited. Will leave it at that.
I told you from the very first beginning about her ancestors and the lack of Sorbs among her whole known and researched ancestry! Otherwise her DNA result would not have been a surprise. You obviously preferred not to tell about her ethnic German ancestry to Davidski. This is really incredible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomenable
And you were well aware of her only known ethnic German ancestry. Otherwise you would not have suggested to check for a NPE.
I didn't change my mind in how to call her. Why should I "insist" on calling her a German, when that was never a topic? There was never a talk about that you would take that woman as a reference for a Sorb. I remember well how I thought about it being a bad joke when I later got to know that she was labeled Sorb and used as a respective reference. So it was not even a misunderstanding, but a deliberate lie about her ethnicity. That you seriously try to defend that manipulation disqualifies you enduringly as a reliable source for anything.
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomenable
Hey Alter, do we actually need that outlier in the spreadsheet? Piotr won't leave it alone. If it's just an assimilated Sorbian family, let it be Sorbian for genetic purposes because nowadays big languages are spoken by all sorts of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by rothaer
It looks more logical like this :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Code:Distance to: Duan
2.99684634 60.00% Sorbian + 40.00% Greek_Central_Macedonia
3.05662272 37.00% Sorbian + 63.00% Moldovan_South
3.15036793 62.40% Sorbian + 37.60% Greek_Eastern_Thrace
3.15255447 47.80% Russian_Tver-Yaroslavl + 52.20% Torbesh
3.22959276 66.00% Sorbian + 34.00% Greek_Athens
3.26174619 48.80% Gagauz + 51.20% Sorbian
3.26749765 63.00% Sorbian + 37.00% Greek_Peloponnese
3.27490210 53.20% Albanian_Gheg + 46.80% Russian_Tver-Yaroslavl
3.28290686 65.40% Sorbian + 34.60% Greek_Central
3.29547691 58.80% Sorbian + 41.20% Torbesh
3.30894402 60.60% Sorbian + 39.40% Greek_Eastern_Macedonia
3.32614797 62.20% Sorbian + 37.80% Greek_Western
3.33168204 42.20% Albanian_Gheg + 57.80% Sorbian
3.37087127 52.00% Bulgarian_Southcentral + 48.00% Sorbian
3.39539371 45.40% German_East_Prussia_Memelland + 54.60% Greek_Central_Macedonia
3.40265402 40.80% Albanian + 59.20% Sorbian
3.40313615 71.40% Sorbian + 28.60% Greek_North_Aegean
3.41701210 42.80% Sorbian + 57.20% Romanian_Dobruja
3.41782023 74.60% Sorbian + 25.40% Greek_Symi
3.42376172 68.40% Sorbian + 31.60% Greek_Ionia
3.43945279 52.00% Albanian + 48.00% Russian_Tver-Yaroslavl
3.45853400 60.20% Sorbian + 39.80% Greek_Thessaly
3.46017343 55.60% Sorbian + 44.40% North_Macedonian_South
3.46388139 54.40% Sorbian + 45.60% Greek_Northern_Thrace
3.46978529 58.80% Bulgarian_Northwestern + 41.20% Sorbian
3.48561544 70.00% Sorbian + 30.00% Italian_Sicily
3.49441510 68.40% Sorbian + 31.60% Greek_Cyclades
3.51017353 47.40% Bulgarian_Southeastern + 52.60% Sorbian
3.52466397 53.60% Bulgarian + 46.40% Sorbian
3.53201934 69.60% Sorbian + 30.40% Italian_Apulia
Haha, yep. The "official" Sorbian average has more Western blood than that supposedly German woman. See the huge distance between them:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Distance to: Sorb
3.25868071 Upper_Silesia
3.28952884 Polish_South
3.32580817 Polish_Lesser_Poland
3.41367837 Polish_Greater_Poland
4.40064768 German_West_Prussia
4.66282103 Polish_Warmia-Masuria
4.70422151 Czech
4.89182992 Polish_Silesia
5.10763155 German_East_Prussia_Masuria
5.22096734 Polish_Subcarpathia
5.57266543 Polish_Kujavia
5.74609433 Slovak
5.85506618 Polish
6.44893790 Ukrainian_Galicia
7.13325311 Polish_Mazovia
7.28457274 Ukrainian_South
7.29851355 Polish_Podlaskie
7.81752518 Ukrainian_Moldova
7.85799593 Ukrainian_Northwest
8.06015509 Ukrainian
8.13410720 Hungarian_North
8.22238408 Ukrainian_North
8.26645027 German_Brandenburg_outlier(Beeskow)
8.66050229 German_Saxony
8.68047234 Slovene
Next time I'm going to add a third generation British Jamaican who lives in London, drinks tea, eats fish and chips, watches football and supports the monarchy. :cool:
On a more serious note - are those Prussian averages representative? I'm asking because I know of a Russian American woman (posted her on TA years ago), she has 7 great-grandparents who were born in modern Russia and one who was born in modern Poland (Suprasl, Podlaskie voivodeship). The latter was of German ethnicity on paper (hardcore German names and last names). But the woman herself scores zero Germanic, as if she was 100% Russian.
This person should be averaged with at least 10 members of his genetic group, by that I mean the population of Beeskow, and whichever areas had the same demographic processes as Beeskow.
His high Baltic could just be a personal variation, not reflecting actual increased Slavic ancestry, and the Baltic average of his population could be much lower in reality.
Individual results and population averages are 2 different things, they shouldn't be mixed.
I agree. This was my first wish after I first saw her results. Already one more sample with that local ancestry would enlight.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
In case she would not be represantative for that more local area it and would just be a personal variation (is that possible to such a big degree?) she should not be used at all. But maybe she is representative there. I think having her mentioned and marking that result an outlier in a Brandenburg context is the most careful and observant way to handle that result. Nobody will misunderstand an outlier as representative and on the other hand we did not hide this existing result. Maybe there is something to detect.
Thanks. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
So it's about someone with 7/8 Russian and 1/8 German ancestry, where you ask for the characteristics of that German ancestry? As for Prussia, do you refer to East Prussia, where there are three averages? If so, there were such different populations. The averages are based of few samples just, but in tendency that will be applicable, yes. As for the variation there will always remain some question marks. But for East Prussia Masuria f. i. there are two confirmed deeply rooted kits, one from the easternmost and one from the westernmost area and they both score very similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
As for "German ethnicity on paper": I don't know what you think about German ethnicity. It's not defined by gentics, but by historical development and whether these individuals traditionally speak German or not. Seemimgly they did. So they are Germans. Genetics play also a role, but just as making the borders of what historically und undisputedly became German. Genetics beyond that border can not really be German, but what you describe lies within these borders.
Yes, I have seen collections of Balkan results from the same village or micro-region where a component can have a range of 9, 10, or even 11.Quote:
Originally Posted by rothaer
That's simply how fully intermixed populations act in genetic software, including G25.
Big immigration centres with free intermarriage have even bigger ranges.
People from this whole region (especially from the eastern half of it, between Storkow-Beskow) will all have similar results:Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
https://www.sorabicon.de/kulturlexik...v_ib2_m3d_r3b/
https://www.sorabicon.de/wp-content/...rankackowa.jpg
West Prussia in particular has large sample size for our standards (like 10 or something), Pomerania isn't bad either. Yes. Prussian averages look fine.
Yes, I was asking whether in the case of that woman her German was undetectable by Gedmatch because it was initially heavily Eastern European. 1/8 is not a lot, unless it's Chinese, black or Amerindian. But she did get 6.8% "broadly Northwestern European" back in 2017. No idea about her current results, I think she is more into genealogy than race and doesn't care much about ancestry compositions.Quote:
Originally Posted by rothaer
Personal variation can be quite big even in small areas. Carloforte is a good example:Quote:
Originally Posted by rothaer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carloforte
^^^ This is the only town on San Pietro Island:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Pietro_Island
The town has just 6000 inhabitants of whom 25 were tested and DNA was published.
All of 25 people are native to this population - of course. Here their G25 coordinates:
^^^Code:Carloforte:Carloforte1,0.118376,0.140143,0.029415,-0.015181,0.032621,-0.001673,-0.004935,0.007384,0.014112,0.023873,-0.004709,0.009591,-0.018434,-0.012661,-0.000136,0.004508,0.006389,-0.00076,0.005279,0.002126,0.00025,0.001607,-0.002095,0.007109,-0.000599
Carloforte:Carloforte2,0.111547,0.149283,0.019987,-0.024225,0.031083,0.000558,-0.008695,-0.005307,0.014521,0.040456,0.002923,0.006294,-0.011447,-0.012799,-0.011808,0.005834,0.022296,0.001394,-0.004651,-0.002876,0.003619,0.002473,-0.001725,0.00482,0.002754
Carloforte:Carloforte3,0.1161,0.157407,0.025644,-0.019057,0.023081,-0.000279,0.00235,0.002077,0.008181,0.033349,0.0032 48,0.005395,-0.014866,-0.005092,-0.0038,-0.003713,-0.00326,0.001774,0.002137,-0.008129,-0.006364,0.003586,0.000986,0.003253,0.009819
Carloforte:Carloforte4,0.129758,0.155376,0.025267,-0.016796,0.027082,-0.004462,0.00799,-0.009461,0.005318,0.02278,-0.002436,0.004796,-0.017839,-0.006193,0.004614,0.001458,0.002999,0.00228,0.0099 3,-0.000875,-0.000749,0.001978,-0.004807,-0.000723,-0.001078
Carloforte:Carloforte5,0.1161,0.146236,0.023759,-0.011628,0.033545,-0.004741,-0.00235,-0.007615,0.010431,0.029887,0.004872,0.01154,-0.008028,-0.007019,-0.001221,-0.012066,-0.005085,0.007095,0.006662,-0.002126,0.005989,0.004946,-0.001356,0.006145,0.004191
Carloforte:Carloforte6,0.114961,0.148267,0.027907,-0.011951,0.030775,-0.007809,-0.00141,-0.001615,0.017589,0.019681,0.008282,0.000899,-0.01219,-0.009496,-0.0019,0.020684,0.01356,-0.003674,0.004525,-0.00075,-0.008859,-0.004081,0.000616,-0.001687,0.000359
Carloforte:Carloforte7,0.119514,0.150298,0.024513,-0.018411,0.043085,-0.008088,0,-0.007846,0.010226,0.033349,0.000162,0.01079,-0.017988,-0.007707,-0.008143,-0.010209,0.002347,-0.006714,0.005405,-0.006128,-0.003494,-0.001607,-0.000986,-0.006627,0.000239
Carloforte:Carloforte8,0.120652,0.153345,0.009805,-0.02907,0.039084,-0.001394,0.00658,-0.001385,0.001636,0.026424,-0.005196,0.014537,-0.020367,-0.009496,-0.005565,0.010342,0.025164,-0.000507,0.003771,0.000625,-0.002246,0.000989,-0.00493,-0.002771,-0.003233
Carloforte:Carloforte9,0.124067,0.152329,0.013576,-0.017119,0.034468,-0.009482,0.005875,0.003,0.007976,0.030069,-0.005521,0.006145,-0.01219,-0.009083,0.000136,0.009812,0.014603,0.000127,0.000 754,0.008004,-0.000374,0.002968,-0.005546,0.005061,0.00012
Carloforte:Carloforte10,0.108132,0.150298,0.022627 ,-0.019703,0.025235,-0.011992,0.006815,-0.003692,0.008999,0.018953,0.009256,0.013638,-0.013528,-0.003165,0.005429,-0.001989,0.007823,-0.000253,0.004777,-0.002501,-0.003993,-0.003339,0.004683,-0.003133,-0.007664
Carloforte:Carloforte11,0.1161,0.14319,0.021873,-0.018734,0.031698,0,0.009635,0.003231,0.009408,0.0 27518,0.00341,0.009591,-0.010704,-0.001789,0.002579,0.007558,0.002738,-0.004054,0.005656,-0.011756,0.004492,0.000742,-0.001602,-0.006748,0.00455
Carloforte:Carloforte12,0.126344,0.153345,0.026776 ,-0.024871,0.037853,-0.00753,0.00752,-0.003,0.01943,0.038452,0.002273,0.009741,-0.024083,-0.005505,0.002986,-0.001193,0.010561,0.000507,-0.000628,-0.007379,0.011605,0.012242,-0.006409,-0.003976,0.001437
Carloforte:Carloforte13,0.119514,0.147252,0.022627 ,-0.018734,0.025235,-0.012829,-0.003995,0.002077,0.007772,0.030616,0.007145,0.008 243,-0.007433,-0.007294,-0.000136,-0.001061,0.010431,-0.003041,0.00729,-0.006378,0.007487,0.001978,-0.002465,0.000241,0.003353
Carloforte:Carloforte14,0.126344,0.157407,0.02489,-0.036822,0.04647,-0.019801,0.004935,0.002769,0.022702,0.034078,0.006 82,0.01079,-0.016947,0,-0.017236,-0.004773,0.013951,0.000127,0.00352,-0.001751,0.004492,0.000247,-0.004807,-0.007471,-0.009939
Carloforte:Carloforte15,0.122929,0.142174,0.023381 ,-0.022933,0.018465,0.000279,0.00235,0.006231,0.0069 54,0.035354,0.001949,0.006444,-0.014717,-0.010872,-0.000407,0.000265,0.003651,0.004307,0.005028,-0.004752,-0.002995,0.000495,-0.003697,-0.007712,-0.007664
Carloforte:Carloforte16,0.127482,0.150298,0.012068 ,-0.029716,0.032621,-0.00502,-0.00141,-0.004154,0.013703,0.032985,0.004222,0.010341,-0.016799,-0.000826,-0.000814,-0.01127,-0.015516,0.008235,0.005531,-0.007128,-0.000873,-0.003586,-0.008134,-0.002771,-0.005628
Carloforte:Carloforte17,0.126344,0.150298,0.016216 ,-0.021641,0.030159,-0.010319,-0.003995,-0.001846,0.017589,0.02606,-0.001949,0.004646,-0.012339,-0.007019,-0.00475,-0.001061,0.018906,0.003547,0.000377,-0.009129,-0.005116,0.003215,-0.001725,-0.001084,0.002754
Carloforte:Carloforte18,0.117238,0.148267,0.025644 ,-0.026809,0.026774,-0.012271,0.001175,-0.000231,0.01309,0.04155,-0.000487,0.017085,-0.013082,-0.013074,-0.000271,-0.013789,-0.005867,0.010388,0.001508,-0.01138,0.006988,0.001113,-0.004067,-0.010363,0.008622
Carloforte:Carloforte19,0.118376,0.140143,0.027907 ,-0.02261,0.025235,-0.009482,-0.005405,-0.002308,0.018203,0.040821,0.004872,0.008992,-0.019326,-0.014038,0.003664,0.011535,0.017471,-0.00266,0.016341,0.006628,-0.004742,-0.008037,-0.010476,0.005422,-0.002275
Carloforte:Carloforte20,0.124067,0.14319,0.014331,-0.011628,0.031083,-0.010877,0.012221,-0.002308,0.011862,0.021686,-0.004709,0.008692,-0.002081,0,-0.002986,-0.015646,-0.017471,0.003674,0.000503,-0.017258,0.002246,0.00272,-0.002835,-0.005422,-0.001317
Carloforte:Carloforte21,0.120652,0.151314,0.019233 ,-0.014212,0.030467,-0.014223,0.003995,0.000923,0.012067,0.036083,0.000 162,0.010041,-0.00996,-0.00523,-0.013572,-0.009679,0.001173,0.004181,0.013073,-0.005253,0.001747,-0.004946,-0.008504,-0.008555,0.006107
Carloforte:Carloforte22,0.12862,0.142174,0.022627,-0.019703,0.035083,-0.005299,0.011516,0,0.020248,0.030616,0.003897,0.0 08692,-0.015015,0.001239,-0.006379,-0.00769,0.005215,-0.010515,0.009553,0.002626,-0.001373,-0.000866,0.00037,-0.005061,-0.007664
Carloforte:Carloforte23,0.120652,0.145221,0.01961,-0.010013,0.035391,-0.003347,-0.003525,-0.002308,0.010635,0.033349,-0.005521,0.013188,-0.012339,-0.00234,0.004343,0.004773,0.004563,0.007855,-0.005656,-0.01013,-0.003369,0.001607,-0.011339,0.003615,-0.005508
Carloforte:Carloforte24,0.120652,0.155376,0.015462 ,-0.02584,0.038469,-0.016733,0.000235,0.001846,0.006136,0.045923,0.003 248,0.010041,-0.015312,-0.007156,-0.005022,-0.009546,-0.012647,0.006334,0.013324,-0.004877,0.000125,0.004946,-0.006902,-0.015303,-0.00012
Carloforte:Carloforte25,0.110408,0.15436,0.012822,-0.018734,0.026159,-0.011156,0.000705,0.000692,0.012271,0.0277,-0.001624,0.008992,-0.011596,-0.006331,-0.008143,-0.000663,0.002868,0.00114,0.002263,-0.011631,-0.000374,-0.002226,-0.002465,0.00482,0.005029
They cover a rather big area in PCA considering that they are a town of just 6000 inhabitants:
https://i.imgur.com/XCXox51.png
And Single Distances:
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte1 0.02076565 Swiss_Italian 0.02384261 Italian_Bergamo 0.02424425 Italian_Veneto 0.02527748 Italian_Piedmont 0.02594531 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte2 0.03044388 French_Corsica 0.03581507 Italian_Tuscany 0.03617303 Italian_Umbria 0.03803864 Swiss_Italian 0.03911758 Italian_Piedmont
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte3 0.02387248 Italian_Piedmont 0.02429385 Italian_Lombardy 0.02456843 Italian_Bergamo 0.02670098 Italian_Tuscany 0.02693378 French_Corsica
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte4 0.02291045 Italian_Piedmont 0.02526814 Italian_Bergamo 0.02565576 Italian_Tuscany 0.02580813 Italian_Veneto 0.02704315 Italian_Lombardy
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte5 0.02128402 Italian_Lombardy 0.02380439 Italian_Piedmont 0.02391717 Italian_Bergamo 0.02725499 Italian_Liguria 0.02845066 Italian_Tuscany
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte6 0.03152175 Swiss_Italian 0.03381633 Italian_Veneto 0.03514316 Italian_Piedmont 0.03524529 Italian_Tuscany 0.03571294 French_Corsica
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte7 0.02173378 French_Corsica 0.02445750 Italian_Bergamo 0.02519527 Italian_Lombardy 0.02824611 Italian_Piedmont 0.03109304 Italian_Tuscany
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte8 0.03575022 Italian_Tuscany 0.03578405 French_Corsica 0.03597875 Italian_Umbria 0.04011912 Italian_Piedmont 0.04080416 Italian_Lazio
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte9 0.02516669 Italian_Tuscany 0.02622731 French_Corsica 0.02726079 Italian_Piedmont 0.02896952 Swiss_Italian 0.02980916 Italian_Umbria
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte10 0.02627606 Italian_Tuscany 0.02745036 Italian_Piedmont 0.03023937 Italian_Umbria 0.03084395 Italian_Marche 0.03179275 Swiss_Italian
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte11 0.02511807 Italian_Piedmont 0.02576543 Swiss_Italian 0.02805001 Italian_Tuscany 0.02836635 Italian_Veneto 0.02845338 Italian_Bergamo
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte12 0.02851555 French_Corsica 0.03483941 Italian_Bergamo 0.03681448 Italian_Lombardy 0.03748679 Italian_Piedmont 0.03766467 Spanish_Menorca
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte13 0.02153072 Italian_Tuscany 0.02298427 French_Corsica 0.02300930 Italian_Piedmont 0.02355354 Swiss_Italian 0.02703136 Italian_Umbria
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte14 0.03442426 French_Corsica 0.04626123 Italian_Bergamo 0.04640215 Italian_Tuscany 0.04780849 Italian_Piedmont 0.04854738 Italian_Lombardy
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte15 0.02652787 Italian_Piedmont 0.02778134 Italian_Tuscany 0.02825599 French_Corsica 0.02879901 Swiss_Italian 0.02972037 Italian_Umbria
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte16 0.03024992 Italian_Lombardy 0.03075323 French_Corsica 0.03394508 Italian_Marche 0.03418593 Italian_Piedmont 0.03430056 Italian_Tuscany
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte17 0.02158485 French_Corsica 0.02389443 Italian_Tuscany 0.02682010 Italian_Piedmont 0.02707020 Italian_Umbria 0.02889627 Swiss_Italian
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte18 0.03190517 French_Corsica 0.03286354 Italian_Lombardy 0.03790808 Italian_Bergamo 0.03863355 Italian_Piedmont 0.04009337 Italian_Tuscany
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte19 0.03730579 French_Corsica 0.04114321 Swiss_Italian 0.04138366 Italian_Tuscany 0.04330407 Italian_Piedmont 0.04355405 Italian_Bergamo
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte20 0.03239653 Italian_Lombardy 0.03386590 Italian_Piedmont 0.03528806 Italian_Liguria 0.03830456 Italian_Bergamo 0.03905739 Italian_Marche
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte21 0.02555641 French_Corsica 0.02928222 Italian_Bergamo 0.02940646 Italian_Lombardy 0.03012987 Italian_Piedmont 0.03176286 Italian_Tuscany
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte22 0.02933245 French_Corsica 0.03050308 Italian_Piedmont 0.03118694 Italian_Bergamo 0.03176968 Italian_Lombardy 0.03215301 Swiss_Italian
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte23 0.02545043 Italian_Piedmont 0.02759564 Italian_Veneto 0.02768242 Italian_Bergamo 0.02782674 French_Corsica 0.02949303 Italian_Lombardy
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte24 0.03331241 French_Corsica 0.03688312 Italian_Lombardy 0.04171490 Italian_Bergamo 0.04187689 Italian_Tuscany 0.04218824 Italian_Piedmont
Distance to: Carloforte:Carloforte25 0.01896649 Italian_Tuscany 0.02180525 French_Corsica 0.02281220 Italian_Piedmont 0.02306529 Italian_Umbria 0.02384562 Italian_Marche
I can also post their K13, K15, Dodecad K12b etc. results if you want.
Are they mixed with mainland Italians? The Carloforte folks. The island is administered by Sardinia but they don't score it as their first pop.
They basically are mainland Italians. Their ancestors were from the town of Pegli in Liguria:Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegli - nowadays a suburb of Genoa
In 1541 they left Pegli and settled on the island of Tabarca near Tunisia, to fish for coral:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabarca - they lived here for almost 200 years
Tabarka Island in the 1600s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabarka#History
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...th_century.jpg
In the 1730s coral deposits near Tabarca were exhausted and they had to move again.
They found coral near San Pietro Island & asked King of Piedmont-Sardinia to move there.
Finally they settled in San Pietro Island in 1739 and established the town of Carloforte.
Carloforte is named after King Carlo (Charles) Emmanuel III who let them settle there.
=====
It seems that they have not mixed much with Sardinians, only a little bit.
Please replace Croatian averages with the following:
Code:Croat,28.08,33.07,15.25,7.68,12.16,1.27,0.55,0.27,0.52,0.55,0.40,0.14,0.11
Croat_Dalmatia,26.36,31.49,16.09,8.84,13.31,1.57,0.44,0.30,0.54,0.48,0.35,0.10,0.11
Croat_Bosnia,26.51,32.35,15.57,8.02,13.77,1.43,0.59,0.29,0.49,0.48,0.34,0.10,0.07
Croat_Herzegovina,24.93,32.69,15.99,8.60,14.10,1.28,0.55,0.19,0.55,0.48,0.40,0.04,0.11
Croat_Lika,27.50,32.41,15.69,7.72,12.86,1.28,0.35,0.19,0.69,0.56,0.55,0.08,0.12
Croat_Istria,27.52,31.63,15.79,7.79,13.90,1.06,0.52,0.38,0.48,0.37,0.35,0.18,0.05
Croat_Kvarner,28.57,32.45,14.23,8.28,12.57,1.24,0.49,0.36,0.68,0.23,0.43,0.13,0.12
Croat_GorskiKotar,31.45,32.69,14.41,7.40,10.30,1.19,0.67,0.29,0.54,0.52,0.30,0.13,0.11
Croat_Slavonia,26.53,33.17,15.98,7.53,13.91,0.80,0.77,0.17,0.51,0.56,0.43,0.02,0.07
Croat_Central,29.40,34.03,14.89,7.02,10.88,1.28,0.52,0.22,0.47,0.45,0.41,0.24,0.13
Croat_Northwest,31.23,34.80,13.68,6.85,8.93,1.29,0.54,0.44,0.50,0.97,0.41,0.20,0.16
Distance to: Croat
1.24855917 Croat_Lika
1.52797251 Croat_Kvarner
2.21226129 Croat_Central
2.30796447 Hungarian_Alföld
2.41190796 Croat_Istria
2.41528466 Croat_Bosnia
2.51531310 Croat_Slavonia
2.99013378 Croat_Dalmatia
3.28003049 Hungarian
3.40313091 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
3.53619852 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.90471510 Croat_Herzegovina
3.94194115 Bosniak
3.95455434 Bosniak_Krajina_West
3.97209013 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
4.23433584 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.62671590 Csángó-Ceangău
4.63364867 Serb_Republika_Srpska
4.64534175 Hungarian_North
4.77980125 Romanian_North-Moldavia
4.80205164 Moldovan_North
4.85635666 Austrian_Carinthia
4.98188719 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
5.16860716 Croat_Northwest
5.31161934 Slovene
Distance to: Croat_Dalmatia
1.40103533 Croat_Bosnia
1.79008380 Croat_Istria
1.88584199 Serb_Republika_Srpska
1.98408669 Croat_Lika
2.04763278 Bosniak
2.07149704 Croat_Herzegovina
2.32038790 Romanian_North-Moldavia
2.38325408 Croat_Slavonia
2.66078936 Bosniak_Krajina_West
2.73384345 Serb_Croatia
2.99013378 Croat
3.04983606 Romanian_Maramureș
3.08176897 Serb_West
3.16311555 Bosniak_Southeast
3.21418730 Croat_Kvarner
3.51262010 Moldovan_Central
3.53385059 Serb
3.55066191 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.61293509 Moldovan
4.02385387 Serb_Central
4.08626969 Csángó-Ceangău
4.09086788 Moldovan_North
4.24178029 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
4.28856619 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
4.37170447 Serb_Vojvodina
Distance to: Croat_Bosnia
1.25123939 Croat_Slavonia
1.35118467 Croat_Istria
1.40103533 Croat_Dalmatia
1.44903416 Croat_Lika
1.81113224 Croat_Herzegovina
1.93134668 Bosniak
2.41528466 Croat
2.48219661 Serb_Republika_Srpska
2.65697196 Bosniak_Krajina_West
2.75163588 Romanian_North-Moldavia
2.77811087 Croat_Kvarner
3.28779561 Serb_Croatia
3.51055551 Bosniak_Southeast
3.57937145 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
3.62818136 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.85151918 Moldovan_Central
3.91117629 Moldovan_North
3.93357344 Romanian_Maramureș
3.98035174 Moldovan
4.00012500 Serb_West
4.25690028 Serb
4.40082947 Serb_Central
4.55008791 Hungarian_Alföld
4.58810418 Croat_Central
4.76581577 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
Distance to: Croat_Herzegovina
0.98096891 Bosniak
1.63966460 Serb_Republika_Srpska
1.81113224 Croat_Bosnia
2.06436431 Croat_Slavonia
2.07149704 Croat_Dalmatia
2.35985169 Romanian_North-Moldavia
2.77834483 Moldovan
2.78797417 Moldovan_Central
2.94888114 Croat_Istria
2.95465734 Bosniak_Southeast
3.01330383 Serb_Croatia
3.02910878 Croat_Lika
3.14093935 Moldovan_North
3.54216036 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.65282083 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
3.70956871 Bosniak_Krajina_West
3.73368451 Serb
3.82536273 Serb_West
3.90471510 Croat
4.02888322 Serb_Central
4.16941243 Romanian_Maramureș
4.35553671 Croat_Kvarner
4.62725621 Serb_Vojvodina
5.32472535 Serb_Herzegovina
5.55843503 Serb_South
Distance to: Croat_Lika
1.24855917 Croat
1.39778396 Croat_Istria
1.44903416 Croat_Bosnia
1.78921771 Croat_Slavonia
1.96260032 Croat_Kvarner
1.98408669 Croat_Dalmatia
3.02910878 Croat_Herzegovina
3.04276190 Bosniak_Krajina_West
3.17474408 Bosniak
3.29899985 Hungarian_Alföld
3.37940823 Croat_Central
3.54897168 Serb_Republika_Srpska
3.61643471 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.74611799 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
3.81342366 Romanian_North-Moldavia
4.21308675 Hungarian
4.30562423 Csángó-Ceangău
4.31064960 Serb_Croatia
4.42909697 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
4.57788161 Moldovan_North
4.60322713 Romanian_Maramureș
4.67609880 Bosniak_Southeast
4.71971397 Serb_West
4.91782472 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
4.99406648 Moldovan_Central
Distance to: Croat_Istria
1.35118467 Croat_Bosnia
1.39778396 Croat_Lika
1.79008380 Croat_Dalmatia
1.89425447 Bosniak_Krajina_West
1.92330445 Croat_Slavonia
2.41190796 Croat
2.51487574 Croat_Kvarner
2.94888114 Croat_Herzegovina
3.06577886 Serb_Republika_Srpska
3.11891007 Bosniak
3.34110760 Romanian_North-Moldavia
3.35498137 Serb_Croatia
3.69314229 Romanian_Maramureș
3.82393776 Bosniak_Southeast
3.85114269 Serb_West
3.99147842 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
4.30204602 Hungarian_Alföld
4.35298748 Serb
4.43132034 Serb_Central
4.46226400 Croat_Central
4.47631545 Csángó-Ceangău
4.58772275 Bosniak_Krajina_East
4.61675211 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
4.70088290 Moldovan_Central
4.83045547 Moldovan
Distance to: Croat_Kvarner
1.52797251 Croat
1.96260032 Croat_Lika
2.51487574 Croat_Istria
2.56526802 Hungarian_Alföld
2.77811087 Croat_Bosnia
2.86213207 Croat_Central
3.15180900 Hungarian
3.21418730 Croat_Dalmatia
3.24978461 Croat_Slavonia
3.47982758 Bosniak_Krajina_West
3.80423448 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
3.92782382 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
4.03659510 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.19909514 Bosniak
4.33049651 Csángó-Ceangău
4.35553671 Croat_Herzegovina
4.39461034 Bosniak_Krajina_East
4.39621428 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
4.65478249 Romanian_North-Moldavia
4.79842683 Austrian_Carinthia
4.87201190 Hungarian_North
4.87635109 Serb_Republika_Srpska
5.03535500 Moldovan_North
5.33459464 Romanian_Maramureș
5.36594819 Croat_Northwest
Distance to: Croat_Gorski_Kotar
0.96400207 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
1.31068684 Hungarian
1.58306664 Austrian_Carinthia
2.34397099 Hungarian_Alföld
2.46633331 Slovene
2.60368969 Croat_Central
2.73601901 Croat_Northwest
3.44132242 Hungarian_North
3.60118036 Austrian_Styria
3.80423448 Croat_Kvarner
3.97209013 Croat
4.91782472 Croat_Lika
5.41361247 Slovak
5.62116536 German_County_Glatz
5.62736173 Croat_Istria
5.85011111 Csángó-Ceangău
6.13110920 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
6.19373070 Croat_Bosnia
6.24929596 Czech
6.26597159 German_Lower_Silesia
6.33721548 Croat_Slavonia
6.34093053 Lemko_Poland
6.44256160 Croat_Dalmatia
6.58604585 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
6.60611838 Bosniak_Krajina_West
Distance to: Croat_Slavonia
1.25123939 Croat_Bosnia
1.78921771 Croat_Lika
1.92330445 Croat_Istria
2.06436431 Croat_Herzegovina
2.38325408 Croat_Dalmatia
2.51531310 Croat
2.55955074 Bosniak
3.06540373 Serb_Republika_Srpska
3.24978461 Croat_Kvarner
3.33456144 Bosniak_Krajina_West
3.43215676 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
3.63470769 Romanian_North-Moldavia
3.84745370 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.96930724 Serb_Croatia
4.11117988 Bosniak_Southeast
4.21757039 Moldovan_North
4.46845611 Croat_Central
4.51129693 Moldovan_Central
4.60977223 Moldovan
4.66479367 Hungarian_Alföld
4.66842586 Serb_West
4.88882399 Romanian_Maramureș
4.90350895 Serb
4.99060117 Serb_Central
5.57331140 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
Distance to: Croat_Central
1.46621963 Hungarian_Alföld
2.14883689 Hungarian
2.21226129 Croat
2.60368969 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
2.75896720 Hungarian_North
2.86213207 Croat_Kvarner
2.89428748 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
3.09192497 Croat_Northwest
3.16257806 Austrian_Carinthia
3.22347638 Slovene
3.37940823 Croat_Lika
4.37223055 Lemko_Poland
4.40917226 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
4.46226400 Croat_Istria
4.46845611 Croat_Slavonia
4.58810418 Croat_Bosnia
4.72419305 Bosniak_Krajina_East
4.98632129 Slovak
5.14556119 Croat_Dalmatia
5.50817574 Ukrainian_Carpathians
5.80289583 Csángó-Ceangău
5.89964406 Bosniak_Krajina_West
5.93588241 Austrian_Styria
5.99173598 Croat_Herzegovina
6.01993355 Bosniak
Distance to: Croat_Northwest
1.73591474 Slovene
2.06995169 Hungarian_North
2.65670849 Austrian_Carinthia
2.71000000 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
2.73601901 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
2.79749888 Slovak
2.99751564 Hungarian
3.09192497 Croat_Central
3.38659121 Hungarian_Alföld
3.93206053 Czech
4.45887878 German_Lower_Silesia
4.70651676 Austrian_Styria
4.85287544 Lemko_Poland
5.16860716 Croat
5.36594819 Croat_Kvarner
5.97901330 Ukrainian_Carpathians
6.34077282 Croat_Lika
6.42953342 German_County_Glatz
6.49850752 Ukrainian_Galicia
6.67619652 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
7.05573526 Bosniak_Krajina_East
7.36769978 Croat_Istria
7.46106561 German_Thuringia_East
7.47493813 Croat_Slavonia
7.54687352 Croat_Bosnia
Vahaduo PCA - important to notice Croatian_Northern and Croatian_Southern subnational genetic clusters. They are made of regional averages North and South of the Croatian national average. More specifically, Chakavian and Western Shtokavian Croats make a single genetic cluster. Chakavian Croats are not closer to Kajkavian Croats. Bosniaks as Western Shtokavian speakers have averages that are mostly much closer to Chakavian and Western Shtokavian Croats as well as Croatian_Southern than to Eastern Shtokavian Serbian or Montenegrin regional and national averages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Looks fine :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroLP
She has a rural ancestry. Deviations from neighboring Saxony (we don't yet have any for Brandenburg in general) values for North Atlantic and Baltic are 9 and 14 respectively and from neighboring Lower Silesia 7 and 8 respectively and from neighboring Northwest Brandenburg 15 and 13 respectively. (I know, this does not necessarly mean she is outside of the range (told by you) for the local population. But I consider that range very big for an population, intermarrying for centuries).Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Well, I'll be extremely curious for another kit from the Beeskow area.
Exactly. I guess it's essentially undetectable in a Russian context. In a context of 7/8 Chinese it would likely be fully visible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Carloforte in K13:
Ranges for components:Code:Carloforte1,32.40,11.21,26.71,7.13,16.52,3.32,0.02,0.58,1.37,0,0,0.74,0
Carloforte10,29.58,8.13,25.17,10,22.66,1.64,0,0,0.65,0,0.45,1.72,0
Carloforte11,29.17,11.05,24.66,8.89,20.40,3.65,0,1.04,0.33,0,0,0,0.79
Carloforte12,34.11,5.54,31.73,7.14,17.92,3.33,0,0,0.23,0,0,0,0
Carloforte13,27.86,12.67,24.16,6.07,23.87,3.97,0,0,0.34,0.24,0.57,0,0.26
Carloforte14,26.40,9.18,34.21,3.27,22.22,3.95,0,0.67,0,0,0.10,0,0
Carloforte15,30.04,9.17,26.07,12.17,19.33,0.45,1.48,0,1.29,0,0,0,0
Carloforte16,31.74,6.29,25.52,7.60,24.75,2.82,0.48,0.21,0.42,0.17,0,0,0
Carloforte17,27.62,9.60,28.36,10.03,20.72,3.13,0,0,0.08,0.44,0.02,0,0
Carloforte18,29.91,5.33,31.81,6.74,20.03,3.86,0,0,2.00,0.17,0,0,0.15
Carloforte19,29.96,5.89,30.42,8.64,17.99,3.90,0,0,1.39,1.12,0,0.40,0.30
Carloforte2,28.54,6.71,29.76,6.00,23.34,3.00,0.38,0,0,1.42,0,0,0.86
Carloforte20,27.47,14.74,23.21,7.97,18.24,5.02,2.17,0,0,0,1.00,0.19,0
Carloforte21,25.82,11.77,27.98,7.12,21.69,3.51,0.28,0,0.44,0.02,1.02,0,0.34
Carloforte22,28.20,10.80,29.97,7.19,18.33,3.45,0.97,1.09,0,0,0,0,0
Carloforte23,31.80,10.55,28.25,7.87,17.12,1.69,1.03,0.26,0,0,0.94,0,0.49
Carloforte24,28.45,4.03,32.59,7.80,22.90,2.75,0,0,0,0,1.47,0,0
Carloforte25,27.17,10.05,26.95,7.58,21.86,3.90,1.14,0,0,0,0,1.36,0
Carloforte3,29.62,8.20,29.44,10.27,18.91,2.32,0.56,0,0.12,0,0,0,0.55
Carloforte4,36.26,8.15,21.86,15.26,15.39,3.07,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Carloforte5,29.89,14.46,23.19,6.30,20.28,3.64,0.67,0.11,0,0.24,0.40,0,0.81
Carloforte6,24.38,15.23,28.05,8.17,19.04,2.70,0,0,0.63,0.99,0.30,0.50,0
Carloforte7,24.93,10.25,34.71,7.32,19.80,1.03,0,0.63,0,0.61,0.57,0,0.15
Carloforte8,27.38,6.97,29.31,13.55,19.03,2.59,0,0.90,0,0.25,0,0.02,0
Carloforte9,32.25,7.67,25.71,8.55,21.85,3.26,0.01,0,0,0,0.69,0,0
North Atlantic - 24.38 to 36.26
Baltic - 4.03 to 15.23
West Med - 21.86 to 34.71
West Asian - 3.27 to 15.26
East Med - 15.39 to 24.75
Red Sea - 0.45 to 5.02
Etc.
what are the North Atlantic and Baltic ranges for Saxony and Thuringia? I guess something like Baltic 30-40, NA 33-43?Quote:
Originally Posted by rothaer