Genética de españoles e hispanoamericanos

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Originally Posted by BirdMan

It is also possible that my "Corsican" ancestor was from Northern France. I haven't actually seen confirmation of his birth in Corsica, maybe family tradition just assumed he was Corsican because they were more common than people from other French regions (just like how we also call all Spaniards Gallegos).

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Who knows...maybe.:noidea:

hay tantas posibilidades...

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Originally Posted by BirdMan

Thanks for all the advice! I'm new at all this but it's super cool!

Target: Birdman
Distance: 2.2973% / 0.02297318
48.2 Early_European_Farmer
32.2 Western_Steppe_Herder
8.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
4.8 Iberomaurusian
3.2 Amerindian
2.2 Baltic_Mesolithic
0.6 Sub-Saharan

At the level of my great-great grandparents, I'm 10/16 Northern/Eastern Spanish, 1/16 Corsican, and 5/16 "criollo" Puerto Rican (some of the criollo branches my family has traced back to people like Ponce de Leon and others we know nothing about, including the direct paternal side where my I1 came from).

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We have similar results. if you were 100% European our results would be almost the same

Default
Target: Xabier_scaled
Distance: 2.9528% / 0.02952757
50.0 Early_European_Farmer
37.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
8.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
3.4 Iberomaurusian

Genética de los reyes de Aragón.

http://geneticaforense.unizar.es/con...de-arag%C3%B3n

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Originally Posted by gixajo

Genética de los reyes de Aragón.

http://geneticaforense.unizar.es/con...de-arag%C3%B3n

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No veo donde ponen cual era el Y-DNA.

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Originally Posted by Rocinante

No veo donde ponen cual era el Y-DNA.

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No lo dice, ni he encontrado ese dato, solo nombra los maternos, muy inespecíficamente, como U y H...

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 1.8326% / 0.01832577
68.2 Iberian
17.0 English
7.6 Berber
2.4 Slav
1.6 SSA
1.4 Palestinian/Jewish
1.0 Arabian
0.8 Amerindian

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Originally Posted by Rocinante

No veo donde ponen cual era el Y-DNA.

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"Se ha logrado la identificación de los “haplogrupos” de este cromosoma masculino en varios varones obteniendo un perfil genético típico del Pirineo y del área atlántica o más occidental de Europa. Resulta llamativa la presencia de este perfil en uno de los individuos más antiguos del grupo y cuya data remonta al siglo VIII-IX. Se trata de un perfil de Y propio del área europea en la que nos encontramos y en concreto del Pirineo."

Apuesto a que R1b-DF27, y posiblemente el marcador vasco, pues en aquellas épocas en el norte de Aragón había gente hablando en euskera también. Quizá haya q buscar ese otro estudio de nobles catalanes que dicen que están vinculados familiarmente a estos aragoneses. Por cierto, esto es curioso:

"Algunos de ellos posibles guerreros por su anatomía y sus lesiones y, desde luego, individuos de elevada talla y envergadura física que revela la robustez e impresionante aspecto atlético de estos primeros aragoneses."

Debían medir estos nobles mínimo 1.90 porque no creo que se hubiera emocionado tanto el autor al escribir esas frases si midiera menos. En aquella época la media sería 1.70 o quizás algo menos, así que no creo que diga esto si fuera 1.80. Así que ver hace 1000 años a aragoneses de 1.90 guerreando debió impresionar a los enemigos.

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Originally Posted by Gota_type_

"Se ha logrado la identificación de los “haplogrupos” de este cromosoma masculino en varios varones obteniendo un perfil genético típico del Pirineo y del área atlántica o más occidental de Europa. Resulta llamativa la presencia de este perfil en uno de los individuos más antiguos del grupo y cuya data remonta al siglo VIII-IX. Se trata de un perfil de Y propio del área europea en la que nos encontramos y en concreto del Pirineo."

Apuesto a que R1b-DF27, y posiblemente el marcador vasco, pues en aquellas épocas en el norte de Aragón había gente hablando en euskera también. Quizá haya q buscar ese otro estudio de nobles catalanes que dicen que están vinculados familiarmente a estos aragoneses. Por cierto, esto es curioso:

"Algunos de ellos posibles guerreros por su anatomía y sus lesiones y, desde luego, individuos de elevada talla y envergadura física que revela la robustez e impresionante aspecto atlético de estos primeros aragoneses."

Debían medir estos nobles mínimo 1.90 porque no creo que se hubiera emocionado tanto el autor al escribir esas frases si midiera menos. En aquella época la media sería 1.70 o quizás algo menos, así que no creo que diga esto si fuera 1.80. Así que ver hace 1000 años a aragoneses de 1.90 guerreando debió impresionar a los enemigos.

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Sí, eso si dice, pero no da ningún haplotipo.

En otro artículo que leí, decían que uno de los individuos (hombre) más identificados como iniciador de la dinastía,medía cosa de 1,64. igual leí mal. En esa época la media de hombres ni de lejos era 1,70.

De todas formas, es uno entre 70 individuos (adultos, niños, hombres y mujeres), y siendo nobles tendrían mejor alimentación por lo que serían más altos.Yo diría que la media para hombres bien alimentados de la época, 1,70 sería correcta, pero para gente de clase llana, 1,60 y contentos. Con 1,80 llamaría la atención por alto.

En cuanto a lo de los haplogrupos podemos hacernos una idea de los de la zona y de la misma época con esto:

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Results: Complete or partial STR profiles were obtained in 3 of the 7 samples. Mitochondrial DNA haplogroup was determined in 6 samples, with 5 of them corresponding to the haplogroup H and 1 to the haplogroup U5a. Y-chromosome haplogroup was determined in 2 samples, corresponding to the haplogroup R. In one of them, the sub-branch R1b1b2 was determined. mtDNA sequences indicated that some of the individuals could be maternally related, while STR profiles indicated no direct family relationships.

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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21674829/

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Originally Posted by Gota_type_

"Se ha logrado la identificación de los “haplogrupos” de este cromosoma masculino en varios varones obteniendo un perfil genético típico del Pirineo y del área atlántica o más occidental de Europa. Resulta llamativa la presencia de este perfil en uno de los individuos más antiguos del grupo y cuya data remonta al siglo VIII-IX. Se trata de un perfil de Y propio del área europea en la que nos encontramos y en concreto del Pirineo."

Apuesto a que R1b-DF27, y posiblemente el marcador vasco, pues en aquellas épocas en el norte de Aragón había gente hablando en euskera también. Quizá haya q buscar ese otro estudio de nobles catalanes que dicen que están vinculados familiarmente a estos aragoneses. Por cierto, esto es curioso:

"Algunos de ellos posibles guerreros por su anatomía y sus lesiones y, desde luego, individuos de elevada talla y envergadura física que revela la robustez e impresionante aspecto atlético de estos primeros aragoneses."

Debían medir estos nobles mínimo 1.90 porque no creo que se hubiera emocionado tanto el autor al escribir esas frases si midiera menos. En aquella época la media sería 1.70 o quizás algo menos, así que no creo que diga esto si fuera 1.80. Así que ver hace 1000 años a aragoneses de 1.90 guerreando debió impresionar a los enemigos.

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Es que eso quisiera saber, de nuestro verdaderos Reyes, que haplogrupos tenian, porque los de ahora son R-U106, no es que sea un haplogrupo tan extraño, pero si tiene que haber un Rey en España o en cierto territorio, ese Rey tiene que ser de linajes 100% provenientes de ese territorio, en nuestro caso, celtibero por asi decirlo, ya sea R-DF27, clados ibericos del R-U152, igualmente clados ibericos del E, J, G, etc. que lo justifique, por ello quisiera saber que haplogrupos tenian los Reyes de Aragon y esperar a que sus clados sean ibericos de antaño, tambien seria la re-hostia saber los haplogrupos de Don Pelayo (quien yo pienso que era astur y no visigodo) y personajes importantes como El Cid.

Esta claro, para la epoca el que midiese mas de 1.80m, era el tio de cuidado hasta con las mujeres.

Yo conozco a un descendiente actual (es madrileño) de una de las primeras dinastías de reyes históricas, la de la dinastía Jimena, de Navarra. Vamos, que el tío desciende de los reyes de Navarra de hace 1200 años, y si sumamos todos los reyes descendientes de esa dinastía Jimena, más los descendientes casados con otras casas reales (Aragón por ej.), tenemos que este madrileño desciende de no menos de 20 reyes históricos de Navarra y Aragón. Y el tío es profesor de Universidad y va en metro al trabajo.

Yo la única casa real que respeto (hasta cierto punto) es la casa de Trastámara, que además su origen me pilla geográficamente cerca, Son coruños en origen: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%ADo_Tambre

Las casas borbónicas y Austrias.... sí, hicieron grandes cosas por España (sobre todo los segundos), pero no dejan de ser foráneas en origen. Aunque parece ser que los Borbones descienden también de Ervigio u otro rey godo, así que entroncan con las primeras casas reales históricas de España.

En realidad, en España debe haber decenas de miles de personas que, sin saberlo, descienden de algún rey histórico. Si hasta hubo reyes o caudillos en Tartessos hace 3000 años. O los caudillos cántabros como Coroccota. A saber si alguno de nosotros desciende de algún rey o noble de hace 1500 años. Mola pensarlo.

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Originally Posted by Gota_type_

Yo conozco a un descendiente actual (es madrileño) de una de las primeras dinastías de reyes históricas, la de la dinastía Jimena, de Navarra. Vamos, que el tío desciende de los reyes de Navarra de hace 1200 años, y si sumamos todos los reyes descendientes de esa dinastía Jimena, más los descendientes casados con otras casas reales (Aragón por ej.), tenemos que este madrileño desciende de no menos de 20 reyes históricos de Navarra y Aragón. Y el tío es profesor de Universidad y va en metro al trabajo.

Yo la única casa real que respeto (hasta cierto punto) es la casa de Trastámara, que además su origen me pilla geográficamente cerca, Son coruños en origen: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%ADo_Tambre

Las casas borbónicas y Austrias.... sí, hicieron grandes cosas por España (sobre todo los segundos), pero no dejan de ser foráneas en origen. Aunque parece ser que los Borbones descienden también de Ervigio u otro rey godo, así que entroncan con las primeras casas reales históricas de España.

En realidad, en España debe haber decenas de miles de personas que, sin saberlo, descienden de algún rey histórico. Si hasta hubo reyes o caudillos en Tartessos hace 3000 años. O los caudillos cántabros como Coroccota. A saber si alguno de nosotros desciende de algún rey o noble de hace 1500 años. Mola pensarlo.

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According to my family geneology, my colonial side descends from many Iberian kings and queens through Maria de Toledo, Duquesa de Veragua (including her recent ancestor Alfonso XI). She was the granddaughter of the first Duke of Alba and the wife of Diego Colon - son of Cristobal. Together they have many descendants in Puerto Rico.

But I think that is more just trivia than anything. Mathematically almost everyone with Iberian ancestry must descend from kings if you go back far enough. In my case the connection was just easier to find because that branch is well documented.

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Originally Posted by Gota_type_

Yo conozco a un descendiente actual (es madrileño) de una de las primeras dinastías de reyes históricas, la de la dinastía Jimena, de Navarra. Vamos, que el tío desciende de los reyes de Navarra de hace 1200 años, y si sumamos todos los reyes descendientes de esa dinastía Jimena, más los descendientes casados con otras casas reales (Aragón por ej.), tenemos que este madrileño desciende de no menos de 20 reyes históricos de Navarra y Aragón. Y el tío es profesor de Universidad y va en metro al trabajo.

Yo la única casa real que respeto (hasta cierto punto) es la casa de Trastámara, que además su origen me pilla geográficamente cerca, Son coruños en origen: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%ADo_Tambre

Las casas borbónicas y Austrias.... sí, hicieron grandes cosas por España (sobre todo los segundos), pero no dejan de ser foráneas en origen. Aunque parece ser que los Borbones descienden también de Ervigio u otro rey godo, así que entroncan con las primeras casas reales históricas de España.

En realidad, en España debe haber decenas de miles de personas que, sin saberlo, descienden de algún rey histórico. Si hasta hubo reyes o caudillos en Tartessos hace 3000 años. O los caudillos cántabros como Coroccota. A saber si alguno de nosotros desciende de algún rey o noble de hace 1500 años. Mola pensarlo.

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Felipe VI desciende, fehacientemente, del rey Bermudo I de Asturias (789-791), el linaje de Pelayo y Alfonso I se perdió poco antes.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermudo_I_de_Asturias

Bermudo I es el ascendiente coronado como rey más remoto de un linaje que entronca generación tras generación hasta Felipe VI, actual rey de España.2​3​ Ante esto, autores como García-Mercadal y García-Loygorri consideran que la dinastía reinante en España es la segunda más antigua del mundo, solo por detrás de la japonesa.

Es incluso descendiente directo de Velázquez:

https://www.elespanol.com/cultura/hi...5454623_0.html

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Originally Posted by BirdMan

But I think that is more just trivia than anything. Mathematically almost everyone with Iberian ancestry must descend from kings if you go back far enough. In my case the connection was just easier to find because that branch is well documented.

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Hard to think my paternal family came from kings when my grandpa's family was so poor they couldn't even purchase shoes or anything. They were farmers... but hey, you never know!

Si os interesa hacer grafiquitos con plots hay un programa disponible llamado past4:

https://folk.uio.no/ohammer/past/

No voy a tener ni idea de usarlo.

En realidad lo dejo para que lo probéis primero vosotros y utilizaros como ovejitas por si tiene spyware o cosas así :)

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Originally Posted by Defcon2

Si os interesa hacer grafiquitos con plots hay un programa disponible llamado past4:

https://folk.uio.no/ohammer/past/

No voy a tener ni idea de usarlo.

En realidad lo dejo para que lo probéis primero vosotros y utilizaros como ovejitas por si tiene spyware o cosas así :)

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pero que copión eres...si posteé un link hace semanas...

Aparte de eso, no sé si habéis visto este thread sobre una nueva compañía, en parte española, tipo MH 23andme y así, hacen estimaciones con raw data por 15 Euros:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...y-post-results



https://app.adntro.com/sign-up?selectedProduct=activate

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Defcon2

Si os interesa hacer grafiquitos con plots hay un programa disponible llamado past4:

https://folk.uio.no/ohammer/past/

No voy a tener ni idea de usarlo.

En realidad lo dejo para que lo probéis primero vosotros y utilizaros como ovejitas por si tiene spyware o cosas así :)

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Y ya de paso, si pagas algo, puedes hacer mapitas como por los que piden 5 euros con este: https://editor.giscloud.com/map/1220...clidean-g25map

Esto lo posteé en el foro de Spaniard,Defcon2, solo abrí el link pero no he investigado nada, puede ser útil?

https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/downlo...cient-dna-data

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Originally Posted by gixajo

pero que copión eres...si posteé un link hace semanas...

Aparte de eso, no sé si habéis visto este thread sobre una nueva compañía, en parte española, tipo MH 23andme y así, hacen estimaciones con raw data por 15 Euros:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...y-post-results



https://app.adntro.com/sign-up?selectedProduct=activate

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15€ para una reinterpretación de la raw data no compensa y menos cuando lo has hecho 20 veces.

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Originally Posted by gixajo

Esto lo posteé en el foro de Spaniard,Defcon2, solo abrí el link pero no he investigado nada, puede ser útil?

https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/downlo...cient-dna-data

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Ni idea, pero he leído que puedes descargar el archivo para meterlos en el gedmatch y cosas así.

Double.

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Originally Posted by Defcon2

15€ para una reinterpretación de la raw data no compensa y menos cuando lo has hecho 20 veces.



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Bueno, igual como parece una empresa española, al menos con los españoles tienen buen tino.

Yo todos estos enlaces de sitios para gráficos y mapas y cosas similares, que va posteando la gente en el foro, los pongo en favoritos para cuando pueda dedicarles tiempo, empezar a trastear con elllos.

Pero igual que con el cable ethernet para el router, siempre lo dejo para más adelante, y nunca lo hago.:rolleyes:

Cuanto hay que pagar para hacer los mapitas? Nos podemos forrar.

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Originally Posted by Spaniard 2.0

Cuanto hay que pagar para hacer los mapitas? Nos podemos forrar.

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Ni idea, no intenté registrarme aún, igual es gratis.

Mira a ver...

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Originally Posted by gixajo

Code:

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Amerindian,0.056229,-0.269522,0.1111,0.087469,-0.09688,-0.016957,-0.273881,-0.327263,-0.01129,-0.012392,-0.004027,-0.002008,-0.002438,0.021937,-0.003664,0.008221,0.007745,-0.001824,-2.5e-05,0.000425,-0.001073,0.009224,0.000468,0.003519,-0.002155
Arabian,0.05059585,0.13995270,-0.06513990,-0.11723870,-0.00940130,-0.04997380,-0.01229238,-0.00808298,0.05608075,-0.00410653,0.01556333,-0.03192903,0.06243548,0.00350273,0.00455410,0.02525745,-0.02140830,0.00386218,0.00015448,0.02687405,0.01263658,0.01614353,-0.00905183,0.00697205,-0.00832413
Armenian,0.10509315,0.13768585,-0.05823490,-0.06060000,-0.03175850,-0.01561800,0.00589615,-0.00656435,-0.03826240,-0.00506190,0.00201840,0.00339870,-0.00773695,0.00172020,-0.00649520,-0.00460265,0.00474855,0.00030305,0.00022010,0.00089650,0.00294790,0.00317855,-0.00264765,-0.00425920,0.00036025
Balkan,0.12638157,0.13520087,0.04103063,0.01803417,0.03150327,0.00620067,0.00450420,0.00621514,0.00142483,0.00096587,-0.00188910,-0.00109397,0.00282463,0.01096387,-0.01073077,-0.00273577,0.00497627,-0.00082773,0.00328490,-0.00291803,-0.00656340,-0.00225870,0.00450270,0.00035350,-0.00131333
Baltic,0.13419740,0.11830925,0.08826510,0.08638635,0.04299255,0.03189105,0.01198555,0.01426095,-0.00087945,-0.03266560,-0.00175390,-0.01308335,0.02134025,0.02636855,-0.00861145,0.00288380,0.00146670,-0.00143170,0.00147695,0.00325795,-0.00070510,-0.00379000,0.00666760,-0.00428965,0.00284405
Berber,-0.06548320,0.13410613,-0.00816420,-0.07538218,0.02581348,-0.03472953,-0.02944445,0.00831648,0.06752790,0.02796198,0.00707855,-0.00796418,0.02308645,-0.01552258,0.01677808,-0.01294335,-0.00285148,-0.02166338,-0.04415378,0.01019313,-0.01565483,-0.03933808,0.02467100,-0.00293920,0.00493865
English,0.13102565,0.13839775,0.06157145,0.04359780,0.04056560,0.01657980,0.00420955,0.00606750,0.00587280,0.00632250,-0.00470165,0.00604745,-0.01316735,-0.01029915,0.02068505,0.00336205,-0.01144795,0.00310430,0.00372315,0.00310190,0.00537285,0.00363740,-0.00201385,0.01408045,0.00036125
Irish/Scottish/Welsh,0.13228260,0.13575633,0.06116163,0.04610647,0.03934567,0.01760073,0.00328790,0.00544713,0.00432753,0.00329560,-0.00566140,0.00552183,-0.01298923,-0.01229210,0.02298907,0.00455140,-0.01034353,0.00244507,0.00212870,0.00159910,0.00479467,0.00279477,-0.00034153,0.01318237,0.00036833
Chinese,0.02574093,-0.44672400,0.00416373,-0.06463350,0.05351190,0.02476773,0.00551737,0.00207600,-0.01316077,0.00126697,-0.07530797,-0.01189107,0.01126457,-0.00655843,-0.00550930,0.00257083,0.00261210,0.00151403,0.00065540,-0.00996537,0.01280200,0.00725607,0.01069883,-0.00123393,-0.00250313
French:Center,0.12629375,0.14304605,0.04892535,0.01849095,0.04218765,0.00665110,0.00122955,0.00398360,0.01350490,0.02017300,-0.00508600,0.00708335,-0.01343755,-0.01002685,0.01103420,0.00377305,-0.00130630,0.00308060,0.00289040,-0.00059540,0.00202930,0.00365585,-0.00175740,0.00647840,-0.00099690
Georgian,0.10835960,0.13506550,-0.05811440,-0.05122780,-0.03449870,-0.00872940,0.01015250,-0.00519230,-0.05675520,-0.01525330,0.00121790,0.01150970,-0.02157060,0.00567000,-0.00108580,-0.02031270,0.00988310,-0.00392740,-0.00624710,0.01288120,0.00893410,0.00169400,-0.00067780,-0.00788050,-0.00144900
German,0.12967560,0.13619240,0.05618755,0.03572190,0.03738955,0.01410635,0.00564820,0.00601530,0.00317670,0.00231755,-0.00414570,0.00157895,-0.00333240,0.00012160,0.00450770,0.00349405,-0.00152525,0.00122655,0.00327310,0.00127880,0.00107455,-0.00032490,0.00086965,0.00563395,-0.00037550
Greek,0.11140840,0.14591180,-0.00812253,-0.04104343,0.00871315,-0.01319430,0.00090083,-0.00172838,-0.00075845,0.01704973,0.00310060,0.00279748,-0.00398438,0.00354085,-0.00934730,-0.00112803,0.00415830,0.00021075,0.00356465,-0.00389083,-0.00505928,0.00134385,0.00106483,0.00079573,-0.00272183
Iberian:Port+Cast,0.10890770,0.14527555,0.03821083,-0.00356183,0.04254030,-0.00276243,-0.00272728,0.00296645,0.02606743,0.03066045,-0.00147663,0.00784425,-0.01321000,-0.01173275,0.01191375,-0.00209938,-0.00376848,-0.00092383,-0.00404368,-0.00086768,0.00200650,-0.00114175,0.00071725,-0.00218058,-0.00101045
India,0.05425723,-0.05224190,-0.14531813,0.10516810,-0.07525927,0.06000990,0.00056697,0.01146813,0.02995450,0.01783713,-0.00570163,-0.00016823,-0.00002613,0.00110113,0.00060693,-0.00117137,-0.00384817,0.00066970,0.00074737,-0.00379923,0.00015303,-0.00049060,0.00129760,0.00150510,-0.00206300
Italian:Center,0.11701408,0.14925148,0.00917310,-0.02814708,0.02221933,-0.01003865,0.00044550,-0.00159775,0.00642820,0.02364700,0.00002603,0.00452040,-0.00955638,-0.00467495,-0.00375115,0.00052440,0.00259400,0.00045623,0.00235623,-0.00327855,-0.00208228,0.00226180,-0.00011475,0.00257140,-0.00120693
Iranic,0.08819270,0.10113475,-0.06562890,-0.02964950,-0.04627995,-0.00295545,0.00468410,-0.00464850,-0.02821040,-0.01373640,0.00216160,-0.00098600,0.00418345,-0.00166035,0.00498295,0.01070660,-0.00466300,0.00281875,0.00398130,-0.00991535,-0.00093175,-0.00418420,-0.00039000,-0.00518885,0.00490625
MiddleEast,0.05685165,0.12859275,-0.04813445,-0.06769060,-0.01581660,-0.02342100,-0.00406920,-0.00286015,0.00661045,-0.00050155,0.00442385,-0.00707060,0.01346310,-0.00017820,-0.00193140,0.00745640,-0.00185565,0.00011665,0.00003315,0.00229120,0.00157940,0.00151840,-0.00176365,0.00088215,-0.00121830
Palestinian/Jewish,0.08970675,0.15220263,-0.04970895,-0.08630155,-0.00821318,-0.02909195,-0.00308430,-0.00400938,0.01374138,0.01814400,0.00735825,-0.00407470,0.00702445,0.00651988,-0.00855050,0.00501358,-0.00108388,0.00259705,0.00276545,0.00053945,-0.00321313,0.00803751,0.00093205,0.00186763,0.00126450
Scandinavian,0.13387755,0.12812600,0.07000080,0.05487155,0.03977280,0.02123570,0.00562880,0.00779640,0.00531760,-0.00310225,-0.00426855,0.00259765,-0.00608450,-0.00776585,0.01803785,0.00670525,-0.00632675,0.00230450,0.00208300,0.00281375,0.00635490,0.00392150,0.00270265,0.01419580,0.00005980
Slav,0.13138390,0.12667805,0.06910955,0.05764665,0.03918105,0.02150315,0.00872160,0.01108490,-0.00191195,-0.01982615,-0.00299075,-0.00703905,0.01422465,0.02013115,-0.00912990,-0.00082800,0.00311790,-0.00038630,0.00264685,0.00149370,-0.00381375,-0.00329875,0.00617250,-0.00369530,0.00031705
SSA,-0.600986,0.062455,0.014708,0.01179,0.002,0.00753,-0.012338,0.026537,0.002966,-0.02442,-0.002355,0.013338,-0.032036,0.003303,-0.035287,0.025921,-0.015255,-0.004371,-0.015272,0.006003,0.00287,-0.005132,-0.00302,0.000361,0.002215
Turkic,0.08279575,-0.04872655,-0.00773435,-0.00521585,-0.04090210,-0.00345510,0.00827315,0.00604885,-0.01586195,-0.01025075,-0.00767745,-0.00170265,0.00110940,-0.00557500,0.00308635,0.00607450,-0.00259560,0.00098765,-0.00011860,-0.00280345,-0.00721875,-0.00283710,-0.00430805,-0.00055895,0.00290500

---

---

Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 2.0338% / 0.02033799
96.8 Iberian
3.2 Irish/Scottish/Welsh

Hay una opción "try it free".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gixajo

Ni idea, no intenté registrarme aún, igual es gratis.

Mira a ver...

---

Este si es gratuito:

https://mapchart.net/europe-detailed.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Defcon2

Este si es gratuito:

https://mapchart.net/europe-detailed.html

---

Tiene una pinta buenísima ese.

Con ese podemos falsificar mapas, con el otro en teoría, se pueden generar mapas con datos de hojas de cálculo, incluidas coordenadas de Gedmacht y G25.

Del James Bond añadiéndole la referencia norteafricana canaria, creo que sale bastante bien.

Code:

---

Insular_Celtic,0.1263435,0.129988,0.0607165,0.0644385,0.0296975,0.022172,0.0019975,0.006,0.002761,-0.0058315,-0.00138,0.0086925,-0.009737,-0.0165835,0.0229365,0.0146515,-0.003716,0.006968,0.0011315,0.0049395,0.006613,0.00643,0.00228,0.0110255,-0.0029335
Continental_Celtic,0.12862,0.1376045,0.0705215,0.034238,0.0481625,0.004044,0.0019975,0.001385,0.018509,0.019955,-0.012017,-0.0052455,-0.00944,0.0006195,0.0095685,-0.0013255,-0.005998,0.001774,0.0048395,0.0080665,0.001061,0.0019785,-0.0006165,-0.005422,-0.0034725
Insular_Germanic,0.129758,0.132019,0.070899,0.059432,0.044624,0.025937,0.00282,0.005538,0,-0.006743,-0.006171,0.004796,-0.012785,-0.012386,0.028366,0.0179,0.00691,-0.003674,0.006159,0.008004,0.008235,0.005193,0.00037,0.019521,0.002036
Latin,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
Continental_Germanic,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.039792,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019,0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224

---

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.1421% / 0.04142144
62.4 Continental_Celtic
22.6 Latin
14.8 Canary_Islands_Guanche
0.2 Continental_Germanic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Es que eso quisiera saber, de nuestro verdaderos Reyes, que haplogrupos tenian, porque los de ahora son R-U106, no es que sea un haplogrupo tan extraño, pero si tiene que haber un Rey en España o en cierto territorio, ese Rey tiene que ser de linajes 100% provenientes de ese territorio, en nuestro caso, celtibero por asi decirlo, ya sea R-DF27, clados ibericos del R-U152, igualmente clados ibericos del E, J, G, etc. que lo justifique, por ello quisiera saber que haplogrupos tenian los Reyes de Aragon y esperar a que sus clados sean ibericos de antaño, tambien seria la re-hostia saber los haplogrupos de Don Pelayo (quien yo pienso que era astur y no visigodo) y personajes importantes como El Cid.

Esta claro, para la epoca el que midiese mas de 1.80m, era el tio de cuidado hasta con las mujeres.

---

En Anthrogenica estamos haciendo furor con nuestras calculadoras.

https://i.imgur.com/YKiTzPC.png
https://i.imgur.com/vCyCrTr.png
https://i.imgur.com/fkO67AJ.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Defcon2

Del James Bond añadiéndole la referencia norteafricana canaria, creo que sale bastante bien.

Code:

---

Insular_Celtic,0.1263435,0.129988,0.0607165,0.0644385,0.0296975,0.022172,0.0019975,0.006,0.002761,-0.0058315,-0.00138,0.0086925,-0.009737,-0.0165835,0.0229365,0.0146515,-0.003716,0.006968,0.0011315,0.0049395,0.006613,0.00643,0.00228,0.0110255,-0.0029335
Continental_Celtic,0.12862,0.1376045,0.0705215,0.034238,0.0481625,0.004044,0.0019975,0.001385,0.018509,0.019955,-0.012017,-0.0052455,-0.00944,0.0006195,0.0095685,-0.0013255,-0.005998,0.001774,0.0048395,0.0080665,0.001061,0.0019785,-0.0006165,-0.005422,-0.0034725
Insular_Germanic,0.129758,0.132019,0.070899,0.059432,0.044624,0.025937,0.00282,0.005538,0,-0.006743,-0.006171,0.004796,-0.012785,-0.012386,0.028366,0.0179,0.00691,-0.003674,0.006159,0.008004,0.008235,0.005193,0.00037,0.019521,0.002036
Latin,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
Continental_Germanic,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.039792,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019,0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224

---

ic

---

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.2043% / 0.03204252
72.4 Continental_Celtic
22.2 Latin
5.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 3.5302% / 0.03530170
62.0 Continental_Celtic
28.2 Latin
9.8 Canary_Islands_Guanche

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 3.6272% / 0.03627157
78.4 Continental_Celtic
15.6 Latin
6.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche

Habrá que cambiarse la bandera por una bereber como hizo Rocinante...:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gixajo

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.2043% / 0.03204252
72.4 Continental_Celtic
22.2 Latin
5.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 3.5302% / 0.03530170
62.0 Continental_Celtic
28.2 Latin
9.8 Canary_Islands_Guanche

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 3.6272% / 0.03627157
78.4 Continental_Celtic
15.6 Latin
6.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche

Habrá que cambiarse la bandera por una bereber como hizo Rocinante...:rolleyes:

---

Que algún entendido en esto lo explique, xfabor. Aunque es cierto que la herencia norteafricana no se limita al iberomaurusian... :rolleyes: [/Aren]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Defcon2

En Anthrogenica estamos haciendo furor con nuestras calculadoras.

]

---

Faltan las mías!!!

Voy a poner la última que posteé aquí, van a acudir como las moscas a la miel...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Defcon2

Que algún entendido en esto lo explique, xfabor. Aunque es cierto que la herencia norteafricana no se limita al iberomaurusian... :rolleyes: [/Aren]

---

Tú sabes perfectamente explicar eso.:)

Por supuesto que la herencia NA peninsular no es solo tan antigua, cualquiera que diga eso está negando la evidencia.

Añade alguna muestra antigua Ibérica, y las cosas empiezan a cambiar, por ejemplo, la que añadió JamesBond007, que ni he mirado cual es:

Code:

---

DeepAncientIberia,0.1200835,0.1497905,0.050534,-0.0134045,0.064166,-0.0133865,-0.0019975,0.0047305,0.046018,0.062416,-0.003735,0.012214,-0.022894,-0.013212,0.0059715,-0.0007955,-0.0037815,-0.003864,0.001571,0.003064,0.0146615,0.0007415,-0.00758,-0.0265095,0.002215
Insular_Celtic,0.1263435,0.129988,0.0607165,0.0644385,0.0296975,0.022172,0.0019975,0.006,0.002761,-0.0058315,-0.00138,0.0086925,-0.009737,-0.0165835,0.0229365,0.0146515,-0.003716,0.006968,0.0011315,0.0049395,0.006613,0.00643,0.00228,0.0110255,-0.0029335
Continental_Celtic,0.12862,0.1376045,0.0705215,0.034238,0.0481625,0.004044,0.0019975,0.001385,0.018509,0.019955,-0.012017,-0.0052455,-0.00944,0.0006195,0.0095685,-0.0013255,-0.005998,0.001774,0.0048395,0.0080665,0.001061,0.0019785,-0.0006165,-0.005422,-0.0034725
Insular_Germanic,0.129758,0.132019,0.070899,0.059432,0.044624,0.025937,0.00282,0.005538,0,-0.006743,-0.006171,0.004796,-0.012785,-0.012386,0.028366,0.0179,0.00691,-0.003674,0.006159,0.008004,0.008235,0.005193,0.00037,0.019521,0.002036
Latin,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
Continental_Germanic,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.039792,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019,0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224

---

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.9561% / 0.01956098
41.6 DeepAncientIberia
19.6 Continental_Celtic
15.6 Latin
14.0 Insular_Celtic
6.2 Insular_Germanic
1.8 Canary_Islands_Guanche
1.2 Continental_Germanic

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.5102% / 0.02510249
38.8 DeepAncientIberia
21.6 Latin
20.6 Continental_Celtic
12.8 Insular_Celtic
6.2 Canary_Islands_Guanche

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 2.4142% / 0.02414223
47.2 DeepAncientIberia
44.6 Continental_Germanic
6.0 Latin
2.2 Canary_Islands_Guanche

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gixajo

Tú sabes perfectamente explicar eso.:)

Por supuesto que la herencia NA peninsular no es solo tan antigua, cualquiera que diga eso está negando la evidencia.

Añade alguna muestra antigua Ibérica, y las cosas empiezan a cambiar, por ejemplo, la que añadió JamesBond007, que ni he mirado cual es:

Code:

---

DeepAncientIberia,0.1200835,0.1497905,0.050534,-0.0134045,0.064166,-0.0133865,-0.0019975,0.0047305,0.046018,0.062416,-0.003735,0.012214,-0.022894,-0.013212,0.0059715,-0.0007955,-0.0037815,-0.003864,0.001571,0.003064,0.0146615,0.0007415,-0.00758,-0.0265095,0.002215
Insular_Celtic,0.1263435,0.129988,0.0607165,0.0644385,0.0296975,0.022172,0.0019975,0.006,0.002761,-0.0058315,-0.00138,0.0086925,-0.009737,-0.0165835,0.0229365,0.0146515,-0.003716,0.006968,0.0011315,0.0049395,0.006613,0.00643,0.00228,0.0110255,-0.0029335
Continental_Celtic,0.12862,0.1376045,0.0705215,0.034238,0.0481625,0.004044,0.0019975,0.001385,0.018509,0.019955,-0.012017,-0.0052455,-0.00944,0.0006195,0.0095685,-0.0013255,-0.005998,0.001774,0.0048395,0.0080665,0.001061,0.0019785,-0.0006165,-0.005422,-0.0034725
Insular_Germanic,0.129758,0.132019,0.070899,0.059432,0.044624,0.025937,0.00282,0.005538,0,-0.006743,-0.006171,0.004796,-0.012785,-0.012386,0.028366,0.0179,0.00691,-0.003674,0.006159,0.008004,0.008235,0.005193,0.00037,0.019521,0.002036
Latin,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
Continental_Germanic,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.039792,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019,0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224

---

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.9561% / 0.01956098
41.6 DeepAncientIberia
19.6 Continental_Celtic
15.6 Latin
14.0 Insular_Celtic
6.2 Insular_Germanic
1.8 Canary_Islands_Guanche
1.2 Continental_Germanic

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.5102% / 0.02510249
38.8 DeepAncientIberia
21.6 Latin
20.6 Continental_Celtic
12.8 Insular_Celtic
6.2 Canary_Islands_Guanche

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 2.4142% / 0.02414223
47.2 DeepAncientIberia
44.6 Continental_Germanic
6.0 Latin
2.2 Canary_Islands_Guanche

---

No sé entonces como cuantificar el aporte NA total en la peninsula, algunos estudios dicen que entre 5-10% según he leído pero siempre nos quedaremos con el porcentaje más bajo.

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 3.2187% / 0.03218685
39.4 DeepAncientIberia
35.0 Continental_Germanic
14.0 Latin
11.6 Canary_Islands_Guanche

La referencia de JB007 llamada Deep Ancient Iberia es:

Target: Iberia_Southwest_BA
Distance: 2.5203% / 0.02520329
55.2 Basque_Spanish
38.6 Sardinian
3.2 Basque_French
1.8 Berber_MAR_TIZ
0.8 Even
0.4 Koinanbe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Defcon2

No sé entonces como cuantificar el aporte NA total en la peninsula, algunos estudios dicen que entre 5-10% según he leído pero siempre nos quedaremos con el porcentaje más bajo.

---

Yo diría, alrededor de un 5-10 % de media, pero no solo el componente NA, si no de NA+levante(tanto judío como árabe)+SSA, y en ese orden de proporciones. Y hablo de la península y Portugal juntos, incluyendo en la media Canarias y las islas portuguesas, y al oeste, y al sur, esa suma sube.

Y luego destacar la imposibilidad por el momento de discriminar dentro de esos componentes el aporte antiguo y el más moderno.

Nos queda que somos un 90-95% componentes europeos no dudosos, un 2,5-5% componentes discutibles , y otro 2,5-5% componentes no europeos dudosos, de media.

Yo es que no veo ningún problema en eso.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gixajo

Yo diría, alrededor de un 5-10 % de media, pero no solo el componente NA, si no de NA+levante(tanto judío como árabe)+SSA, y en ese orden de proporciones. Y hablo de la península y Portugal juntos, incluyendo en la media Canarias y las islas portuguesas, y al oeste, y al sur, esa suma sube.

Y luego destacar la imposibilidad por el momento de discriminar dentro de esos componentes el aporte antiguo y el más moderno.

Nos queda que somos un 90-95% componentes europeos no dudosos, un 2,5-5% componentes discutibles , y otro 2,5-5% componentes no europeos dudosos, de media.

Yo es que no veo ningún problema en eso.

---

Yo es que 5-6% NA-Árabe-SSA lo obtengo con la calculadora más antigua pero se complica cuando meto el guanche u otros norteafricanos más modernos en otro tipo de calculadoras y saco hasta un 15% como acabamos de ver, es decir quiero saber como hacer coincidir lo uno con lo otro.

Se que he perdido respeto en este hilo, pero dare mi opinion sobre el NA en España y Portugal:

A mi parecer, para saber el NA que hay aqui en Iberia, hay que remontarse muy atras, ya que todos los promedios geneticos que hagas van a dar como unico componente extra-europeo, el iberomaurussian, por lo tanto, esto significa que mayormente, el NA que hay, es desde antes de la expansion del Islam al Norte de Africa. Hay personas como Juan, Damiao y Endo, que son 100% ibericos, y sacan SSA y natufian, es decir, componentes que son el predominio en la Africa sub-sahariana y el Levante, esto solo pudo haber llegado luego de la expasion del Islam, que todos sabemos que su punto final fue aqui en la peninsula, o con los romanos, pero seria poco creible esto.

En fin, para mi el NA, en terminos autosomicos, va ir variando de Este, Oeste, Norte y Sur de la peninsula, y en promedio sera un 4%, y en terminos de linajes, va a estar alrededor del 9%, siendo el E-M78 (5%) traido por los tartesos, punicos, fenicios y posiblemente, romanos, y el E-Z827 (4%), traido por los moros.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/E1b1b-tree.png

Y añadir una cosa, evidentemente si usas calculadoras modernas, te van a sacar mas "NA" porque ya ellos tienen un buen pedazo de EEF en su genetica, y haciendo una especie de matematica en las calculadoras, de va a duplicar o triplicar los resultados que te salgan en la calculadora clasica EEF/WHG/WSH, no tiene sentido, es simplemente solapamiento en componentes modernos, como cuando te sale irlandes, aleman, italiano, etc.

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Originally Posted by Rocinante

Se que he perdido respeto en este hilo, pero dare mi opinion sobre el NA en España y Portugal:

A mi parecer, para saber el NA que hay aqui en Iberia, hay que remontarse muy atras, ya que todos los promedios geneticos que hagas van a dar como unico componente extra-europeo, el iberomaurussian, por lo tanto, esto significa que mayormente, el NA que hay, es desde antes de la expansion del Islam al Norte de Africa. Hay personas como Juan, Damiao y Endo, que son 100% ibericos, y sacan SSA y natufian, es decir, componentes que son el predominio en la Africa sub-sahariana y el Levante, esto solo pudo haber llegado luego de la expasion del Islam, que todos sabemos que su punto final fue aqui en la peninsula, o con los romanos, pero seria poco creible esto.

En fin, para mi el NA, en terminos autosomicos, va ir variando de Este, Oeste, Norte y Sur de la peninsula, y en promedio sera un 4%, y en terminos de linajes, va a estar alrededor del 9%, siendo el E-M78 (5%) traido por los tartesos, punicos, fenicios y posiblemente, romanos, y el E-Z827 (4%), traido por los moros.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/E1b1b-tree.png

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Que solo un puñado de nosotros obtengamos el NA después de la invasión musulmana me parece poco creíble, pero bueno. Luego escribiré más que me tengo que ir.

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Originally Posted by Defcon2

Yo es que 5-6% NA-Árabe-SSA lo obtengo con la calculadora más antigua pero se complica cuando meto el guanche u otros norteafricanos más modernos en otro tipo de calculadoras y saco hasta un 15% como acabamos de ver, es decir quiero saber como hacer coincidir lo uno con lo otro.

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No creo que puedas hacerlos coincidir todos. Como mucho puedes sacar una media de todos tus resultados.Todos nos fijamos mas o menos que sacamos en cada componente, fijate en los numeros mas altos, en los mas bajos, en la frecuencia de unos y otros, y hazte una idea de por donde anda ese componente. pAso de recopilar datos para hacer estadísticas, pero de los ibéricos que andamos por aquí, la desviación típica "bruta" no creo que llegue al 3%. respecto a una media menos de 6% de componentes no europeos.osea que nos movemos en un intervalo aproximado de (91,97) para una media de alrededor del 94%.

Y eso podemos determinarlo bien tanto portugueses como españoles, porque somos los que más exponemos nuestros resultados en cualquier modelo aquí, cosa que no hacen personas de otras zonas europeas , que o falsean resultados, quitan referencias, borran distancias o ponen lo que les interesa y no les están continuamente poniendo modelos con componentes "sensibles" para ellos.