North African, SW Asian, and North Euro admixture in S. Europe: Dodecad K12b.

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02-05-2017, 06:31 PM
Sikeliot

North African, SW Asian, and North Euro admixture in S. Europe: Dodecad K12b.

I averaged together MANY results.

Iberia is the most northern, least MENA. NE Sicily is the opposite. Crete is more MENA, less North Euro shifted than the aggregate of the Aegean islands. Palermo has the highest MENA shifted outliers even if not the highest average. SE Sicily is the most "northern" shifted part of the island, which means there is some point on the east coast moving south where the Greek influence really begins to be present.

North African, highest to lowest:
Palermo: 4.81 (3.17-7.66)
Messina: 4.75 (2.99-6.26)
Catania: 4.58 (2.85-5.48)
Iberia: 4.53 (2.7-7.58)
Agrigento: 4.57 (3.15-5.38)
Caltanissetta: 4.34 (4.05-4.68)
Trapani: 4.21 (3.07-5.85)
Calabria: 4.14 (2.84-5.83)
SE Sicily: 3.33 (2.22-4.11)
Crete: 2.52 (1.76-2.96)
Aegean islands: 2.40 (0.8-4.42)
Greek mainland: 1.23 (0-2.56)

North Euro, highest to lowest:
Iberia: 25.28 (23.17-27.75)
Greek mainland: 22.91 (20.18-24.82)
Aegean islands: 14.22 (8.11-21.54)
SE Sicily: 14.01 (10.03-17.15)
Trapani: 13.86 (11.62-15.63)
Crete: 13.42 (12.38-14.31)
Caltanissetta: 13.20 (12.52-13.74)
Palermo: 12.89 (8.36-17.98)
Agrigento: 11.80 (10.5-13.69)
Catania: 11.72 (9.53-14.24)
Calabria: 11.65 (6.73-13.57)
Messina: 11.36 (7.59-14.45)

SW Asian, highest to lowest:
Agrigento: 13.43 (11.59-14.05)
Crete: 13.42 (12.08-16.02)
Caltanissetta: 13.40 (12.88-14.11)
Calabria: 13.38 (11.17-15.77)
Catania: 13.02 (11.57-14.14)
Messina: 12.91 (10.91-14.98)
Palermo: 12.60 (9.87-16.27)
Aegean islands: 12.36 (10.09-15.06)
Trapani: 12.29 (10.88-14.08)
SE Sicily: 12.02 (9.87-13.41)
Greek mainland: 9.69 (7.46-11.89)
Iberia: 4.53 (3.91-6)

Total NW African + SW Asian:
Agrigento: 17.80
Caltanissetta: 17.74
Messina: 17.67
Catania: 17.60
Calabria: 17.52
Palermo: 17.41
Trapani: 16.50
Crete: 16.18
SE Sicily: 15.31
Aegean islands: 14.77
Greek mainland: 10.92
Iberia: 10.17
02-05-2017, 06:44 PM
Voskos

Nice thread. How much SW Asian in Malta?
02-05-2017, 06:47 PM
Sikeliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevillager

Nice thread. How much SW Asian in Malta?

Probably close to Agrigento and Caltanissetta considering that is where they descend from. Any surprises above or no?

Some people might be surprised the Aegean islands as a whole are more Northern European shifted than Crete.
02-05-2017, 06:54 PM
Voskos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sikeliot

Some people might be surprised the Aegean islands as a whole are more Northern European shifted than Crete.

nah, I'm not surprised by that.
02-05-2017, 06:55 PM
Sikeliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevillager

nah, I'm not surprised by that.

I also don't know why people think that Cretans look lighter and less exotic. Some Cretans can be light but I have seen a lot more pictures of light eyed and genuinely Northern looking people from Lesbos, Samos, and Chios.
02-05-2017, 07:13 PM
Voskos

Some of the SW Asian might have come from Phoenicians

https://mapcollection.files.wordpres...n-colonies.jpg

http://www.lgic.org/lebanonphotos_fi...ia_1000bc2.jpg
02-05-2017, 07:14 PM
Shah-Jehan

How many samples from each group is this based on?
02-05-2017, 07:15 PM
Sikeliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevillager

Some of the SW Asian might have come from Phoenicians

https://mapcollection.files.wordpres...n-colonies.jpg

http://www.lgic.org/lebanonphotos_fi...ia_1000bc2.jpg

That could be, but I also suspect that Sicily and Crete were originally inhabited by Afro-Asiatic speakers (Sicanians? Minoans?).

My question to you is, which part of Sicily do you think has been most, and least, impacted by foreigners based on this?
02-05-2017, 07:15 PM
Sikeliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shah-Jehan

How many samples from each group is this based on?

20+ for Messina, Palermo, and Aegean islands each. Around 15 for Greece, and the rest a bit less.
02-05-2017, 07:17 PM
Voskos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sikeliot

That could be, but I also suspect that Sicily and Crete were originally inhabited by Afro-Asiatic speakers (Sicanians? Minoans?).

My question to you is, which part of Sicily do you think has been most, and least, impacted by foreigners based on this?

What sort of foreigners? Nordics or non-Europeans?
02-05-2017, 07:19 PM
Sikeliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevillager

What sort of foreigners? Nordics or non-Europeans?

In general. I happen to believe the North Euro is more recent/more foreign to the island but that is just me.
02-05-2017, 07:20 PM
Damião de Góis

Your notion of southern Europe is a bit reductive.
02-05-2017, 07:28 PM
Voskos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sikeliot

In general. I happen to believe the North Euro is more recent/more foreign to the island but that is just me.

I think the original Sicilians/Cretans were Sardinian-like and then they gradually received several waves of North African, Phoenician(Levantine) and Mesopotamian/West Asian migrants throughout their history. Based on that East Sicily is more Caucasoanatolian and the West of the island is probably a bit more North African-shifted .
02-05-2017, 07:33 PM
Sikeliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevillager

Based on that East Sicily is more Caucasoanatolian and the West of the island is probably a bit more North African-shifted .

Yes. I didn't put Caucasus on there but if I did, you'd see that. What I notice is that for every increase in one place it is combined with something decreasing somewhere else. I.e. comparing western Sicily and the Aegean islands, you see the North Euro is higher in the Aegean, but the Atlanto-Med is lower. The Caucasian is higher, but the "real" MENA components are decreased by roughly the same amount as the difference in the Caucasian.
02-05-2017, 08:22 PM
Sikeliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevillager

I think the original Sicilians/Cretans were Sardinian-like and then they gradually received several waves of North African, Phoenician(Levantine) and Mesopotamian/West Asian migrants throughout their history. Based on that East Sicily is more Caucasoanatolian and the West of the island is probably a bit more North African-shifted .

Also IMO it is unquestionable that the highest Greek influence is in the southeast (Ragusa, Syracuse, and likely Enna too which I have no results from).