i acknowledge this thread got inspired by a specular one made by Portuguese users.
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i acknowledge this thread got inspired by a specular one made by Portuguese users.
Is the mafia really to blame for the Genoa bridge collapse?
Good ideia dude. I have 2 ask here:
1 - How the italians see the Roman Empire today? Is it just an old glorious period of Italy in your minds?
2 - Do you agree with the nationality politic? As far as I know, if you have an italian ancestral, you can get the italian citizenship.
Some italian users got angry at me because i suggested that. we still don't know. i hope other users are gonna answer too
the fact is i think i consider any kind of corruption, bribing and so on to be "mafia" just because it's organized crime and with public construction there's a lot of money involved; it's not that i said ther are sicilian mafiosi in Genoa.
but to me (if that will be the case) to cheap out on materials for whatever reason it's mafia, point
one thing is for sure lack of money for infrastructures from the 2008 crisisi on, we really got no money to maintain streets and bridges, and even the builder said that the bridge was conceived to last a max of 60 years or so, add the difference bewtween traffic then (not only the amount of traffic but also it's composition : think of the cars that existed at the time like cinquecentos old 127 and 126....they weighed one fourth of modern SUV) and now.
How do Italians feel about Corsica? Do many people want it to be a region of Italy or do most not care?
Northern or Southern Italian food, which is better and why?
1 well i think that the argument "Romans were not Italians" it's not completely right. Romans living in italy already had a concept of Italy and almost Italicness, in a roman sense though.
just think about the fact that the area Armies could not enter (that before applied to the city of Rome) was extended to the Rubicon river which is in modern Padania valley. So the area south of that was considered the core of Rome ,as for Roman empire and in a sense, an extention of the city. so They already identified a core state (still not Comprehensive of what is now northern Italy).
at the same time though i think that saying there is total continuity is plain liying because the empire fell of course, and much of today's cultural Heritage comes from the renaissance( which yeah it's gonna lead to a rediscovering of roman culture) more than roman culture itself.
we can say that we reinvented ourself , so what we are now it's different but sits on the same premises. (or the same ancient roman columns ;) )
2- i think i've seen this policy in action the most with south americans , those kind of people that makes request are in my experience , coming from a small middle class environment that built it's own fortune from a farming starting point, very educated (often with a degree looking for opportunities...), so in that i've no objection , even if sometimes the thing may seem a bit forced. they usually integrate very well in italian society also because culturally they are not really that far to start with (especially argentinians and uruguayans) it's only a bit of accent that remains ;)
Is elafonisos popular in Italy? Because honestly, Italian was more common than native language during my vacation there
in winter if you wanna get that fullness , eat northen italian (Butter, minced seasoned meat, herbs a lot of stuffed meats and stuffed pasta like tortellini) it' the best just to make you feel like you are exploding, even the less (imo but many people like it and it is for sure much better with sauce and sausages) tasty iterations like polenta which is basically corn porridge may not taste like the end of the world but at least they make you fill full.
in the summer Southern italian, the ideal stuff that it's made to be taste wise the best possible even with the same basic ingredients (that's why ingredients are so important and it's difficult to recreate the same stuff outside Italy) without being too oppressive on the stomach. fresh vegetables and vegetable sauces are ideal in the summer and mainly fish.
it's only heaviness is represented by the occasional fried stuff.
additionally in Italy we have also what i call the urban middle class cuisine, represented by "non traditional" or "reinvented" stuff that's easy to make and that basically fed afterwar Italy. it's main goal it's to be easy to make and fill you but it may not be attractive or gourmet (stuff like Panfried pork in bread dust called "cotoletta" or a scrambled egg with leftover yesterday's pasta "called frittata di pasta") also as far as dessert go Tiramisù is a pretty recent invention made recombining stuff like coffee, biscuits and cream"
in an ideal timeline , Corsica and Sardinia should have become a single indipendent and unified nation imo. we got Sardinia in the end and France got Corsica, this does not change that Sardinians are sardinians and Corsicans are corsicans, before other identifications
There's any relationship or thoughts with Italian-South Americans, like many Brazilians/Argentinians/Uruguayans? How common is to find one living in Italy, and there's any common sentiment about them?
i know exactly what you are talking about, this summer half of my friends got to Croatia and half in some Greek island, i thought maybe the market was flooded with more offers from booking sites because of the better going economy (?). don't know really. i think the most visited are Zakintos , Kreta and Santorini.
i hope we don't become the Greek version of English people in Spain.
Romans are considered "terroni"? In Terroni logic, the northerners are the greatest, but, Roma is the capital - soon I dont understand it.
What do Italians think about Albanians ?
for what regards me in the sentence you wrote one premises defies the other... the music that the average guy likes and that goes well in italian charts is influenced by Rap and Reggeton, and i really dislike that stuff :/
i'm glad that stuff like this still sells well but as you can see it's not like they are the most popular
https://image.ibb.co/b5Q9q9/album_italia.jpg
Well every italian that got there had a dream, almost unrealizeable for many in the 1800's : to have a piece of land of their own to work.
I admire very much those italians who got there, probably even more than the ones that got in the USA; they were in many cases very determined.
ad the cultural similarities for sure helped: first they were Workers in the Aciendas and Facendas then got their own piece of land and finally many became small and then big enterpreneurs, translating from agricultural world into small and sometimes big activities making often the bulk of the south american middle class( especially argentina and uruguay i'm less familiar with Brazil), a thing that in the USA rarely occurred in the same time frame.
(even though the sistem of the aciendas was for sure better than the one in the facendas).so as you can see if it happens that those kind of people make request, they Always are in my experience , coming from a small middle class environment that built it's own fortune , very educated (often with a degree looking for opportunities… not that this is the best place but hey argentinadid not give many opportunities with the raising inflation), so in that i've no objection , even if sometimes the thing may seem a bit forced (when they come because of the great great great grandfather, but who cares honestly). they usually integrate very well in italian society also because culturally they are not really that far to start with (especially argentinians and uruguayans) it's only a bit of accent that remains :)
Usually that word applies to those south of Rome, although there are alsso northerners who use questionable sayings such as "Africa starts south of the Po river". The typical Roman however is very lively and instinctive, I find the Romans closer to southerners than northerners or maybe they are something transitional.
:confused:
yep, some sure do consider us terroni ,not all but some. our worst individuals can be loud (less than the worst individual of the south) and can be rude sometimes. we easily make ourself very recognisible from Tuscany on haha.
the fact that we are the capital almost is a minus in the deep North. they used to Say "Roma Ladrona" (rome the big Robber) because it's seen by some as a distant place where power and corruption resides. a bit like the biblical Subburra.
i've never made fun of a Milanese or Piedmontese accent but whenever i go up as soon as i talk everybody got a smirk on their face, some interrrupt me to point that i'm from Rome... haha probably I sound like some stereotypical Roman film Carachter (yes we had a lot of bad publicity because for a time in the 50's and 60's , every lazy, rude, dummy acting fictional carachter was from Rome i don't know why we should ask the film industry)
i think after the big emigration period in the Nineties , where they were THE immigrants they mostly faded out of the public imaginario.
i think it's good because it means in the end Albanians are just normal people trying to live their lives so they should not have any reason to get attention. i think this also happened because we had a lot of gypsy immigration from Romania so the attention of the mass got in that direction, meanwhile assimilation went so fluidly nobody really paid attention .
plus two good singers in Italy are Albanians
Anna Oxa (Pugliese-albanian)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odqCkzNRvH8 beautiful song btw
Ermal Meta got into italy at 13 years old, i was surprised he was albanian, speaks perfect and accentated(North) Italian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJWjOwpN0E
About soccer, what the most serious and violent rivalry?
Milan x Internazionale
Lazio x Roma
Juventus x Torino
If you mean the mafias of southern Italy, no they were not involved in the construction of that bridge (early 1960s). Lack of efficiency and shitty materials are to blame in my opinion. The use of weakened cement has led to numerous collapses throughout Sicily: roads, bridges, viaducts, railways, tunnels, houses, shopping centers and even schools, hospitals and police stations may be at risk of collapses because they are built with little cement and lots of sand. The profitable business for the mafia clans, which in Italy handle the cement business by winning national and local contracts to build public and private works.
In this order, Hellas Verona-Napoli (Veronesi are very anti-Southerners), Lazio-Livorno (political, Laziali are fascists, Livornesi communists) and Hellas Verona-Vicenza (parochialism and politics, Veronesi are neo-nazi, Vicentini are apolitical but were historically lefties).
What's are the similarities and differences between Greeks and Italians?
The Romans, the greatest civilization in human history, are never valued as they should by the Italians (this also applies to all other artistic, archaeological and cultural goods) and some also have a self-destructive attitude and consider the ancient Romans as a foreign people to current Italians. I'm sure the average Italian will tell you: "before 1861 there were neither Italians nor Italy", even though it was the Romans who were the first to unify the country!
I thunk that to obtain citizenship, there should some basic requirements:
- speak fluent Italian and demonstrate compliance with Italian law, integrate with life in Italy, be familiar with Italian habits, customs and traditions and do not constitute a danger to the internal or external security of Italy
- have lived in Italy for at least 10 years
- birth in Italian territory should not automatically confer Italian citizenship on a child
- foreigners with all four Italian grandparents could obtain citizenship
How did it take for people to develop an Italian identity after the unification?
Most don't care, and it is possible that many are not even aware of the fact that most Corsicans spoke a Tuscan dialect until a few decades ago. Those with common sense however know that Corsicans, culturally, linguistically and ethnically, have nothing to do with France.
i think the courses of events that set slighly apart the path and people of Italy and Greece are mainly two, and still the two (Southern Italy And Greece) retain a lot of similarities between them so we must conclude that before these divergences the culture and the people were basically the same, people that were culturally the heridity of the now christian roman empire .
rThose two divergences i think were
1-Ottoman Control :
(did the turks grecified or the greeks turkified?) i think more the first but i think culturally and traditionally it has set its sign from culture to music .
2 Orthodoxy vs Catholicism
i think it shaped the culture and social behaviours in a more covservative way , at least until some time ago. but this does not mean it is so different from Southern Italy where catholicism (realtively new introduction if you consider the byzantines were controlling in some places still after the year 1000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catepanate_of_Italy) evolved in it's peculiar way including many nuances of orthodoxy.
i think similar mediterranian climate, proximity and a long story of contacts and trades did the rest bringing us closer
Commercial summer songs suck mostly, some catchy ones are:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2mfY9Ku0jI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK5JqexMznc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aUUaRvFYBU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hfGdLPTQpg
people here still like to identify with regional identity first( only place where this does not happen is Lazio i think because of the former Pope territories), this is the heridity of the Communes periods where basically every city was a city state with territiorial ambitions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_commune
so we made a slight improvement...we passed from identifiying with cities to identify with regions haha.
i must add that the unification of italy was not well liked everywhere, still today some Southern biased (or Kingdom of the two Sicilies biased) historians like to think of it as an invasion and conquest by the northern Piedmont-Sardinia)
right now inside Italy we do this kind of regional identification, but we become Italians as soon as there must be some relation with the outside , on the international level.
that's why ideally many of us would like some sort of Federalism (it can't be done though especially because it's so costly we can't afford it), because it reflects our state of mind more. maybe in the future with more money it could be a path to a sense of collectivism and renewed sense of National identity...
i think right now a true National identity based on civic duty and on the concept of central state (like in the style of France nationalism) it's impossible to be honest
we like to be "Nationalist" on the culture side of things , just because we know how important it is.
How strong is the Catholic Church today in Italy? And what regions it has more force?