Are We Still Evolving?

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Dr Alice Roberts asks one of the great questions about our species: are we still evolving?

There's no doubt that we're a product of millions of years of evolution.

But thanks to modern technology and medicine, did we escape Darwin's law of the survival of the fittest?

Alice follows a trail of clues from ancient human bones to studies of remarkable people living in the most inhospitable parts of the planet and the frontiers of genetic research, to discover if we are still evolving - and where we might be heading.

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Yes, but not that you'd notice.

Humanity is devolving. Evolution happens when different populations of the same species become isolated from each other, and then adapt to the environment they live in. What's happening now is the reverse, populations that before lived apart are now mixing together.

Of course we're still evolving, since different people have different reproductive success. In fact, in the coming decades, we will evolve even more intensely, as a significant portion of the younger generations will not reproduce at all!

That is a stupid question. Humans are always evolving. However, thanks to miscegenation, population growth, and less isolation, the rate at which humans evolve is slowing down.

Large populations in American cities are evolving so as to be able to digest 'meals' from McDonalds.

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Originally Posted by Loddfafner

Large populations in American cities are evolving so as to be able to digest 'meals' from McDonalds.

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;) You say this probably more so tongue-in-cheek than not. ;) But the sad fact is what with the genetically-modified foods and pumped in antibiotics in meats, and long-term use of pesticides and herbicides in produce agriculture and what-have-you, there is bound to be some biological impact as to human evolutionary plans. How can there not be?

Maybe survival of the fittest means our genes having to mutate to develop a better liver to digest the garbage that we eat, a better pancreas to breakdown the added sugars via corn products that we constantly ingest and so on and so forth?

Sad but probably most realistic. And never mind the impact of the multibillion dollar psychopharmacology industry and its ingestibles on human development and evolution as well. :(

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Originally Posted by Loddfafner

Large populations in American cities are evolving so as to be able to digest 'meals' from McDonalds.

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I wonder if they carry the Blood Type M, which was recently patented by Monsanto, to ease the digestion of their GMO soy beans. :p

DNA still mutates; humans still breed; mutated DNA still spreads--stupid questions are still asked.

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Originally Posted by Bloodeagle

I wonder if they carry the Blood Type M, which was recently patented by Monsanto, to ease the digestion of their GMO soy beans. :p

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Gah! My point exactly!! :(

Got any good links or articles to share about this Sourdough? I'd love to read up on it.

Bionic people. :rolleyes: Who knew we wouldn't be pretending to be Steve Austin or Jaime Summers one day. :(

There are still pressures of food, climate, and reproduction that will select for some genes more frequently than others. Just because modern medicine and family planning are a part of our environment, that basic fact of life does not change.

Some basic facts of biology:
Evolution is incremental and does not necessarily lead towards progress.

Populations with high birthrates and high mortality will evolve more rapidly. That kind of evolution may not necessarily be a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Aemma

Gah! My point exactly!! :(

Got any good links or articles to share about this Sourdough? I'd love to read up on it.

Bionic people. :rolleyes: Who knew we wouldn't be pretending to be Steve Austin or Jaime Summers one day. :(

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I made that up, but I am certain that stranger things are in store for us. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bloodeagle

I made that up, but I am certain that stranger things are in store for us. ;)

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You made it up? :eek:

Dang you Sourdough! :angryw :comp26: :D

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Originally Posted by Loddfafner

Large populations in American cities are evolving so as to be able to digest 'meals' from McDonalds.

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Hey, I like McDonald's :p

In seriousness though, the real question is *how* are we evolving? And obviously, different races and social classes are evolving in different directions...

If you're talking about middle-class to upper-class whites, in my opinion we will evolve to be more compassionate and group-oriented. This is because the self-absorbed amongst us will devote more to their careers and never have children; thus those of exceptional empathy and cooperativeness will be the ones to have children and pass their genes on.

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Originally Posted by Curtis24

In seriousness though, the real question is *how* are we evolving? And obviously, different races and social classes are evolving in different directions...

If you're talking about middle-class to upper-class whites, in my opinion we will evolve to be more compassionate and group-oriented. This is because the self-absorbed amongst us will devote more to their careers and never have children; thus those of exceptional empathy and cooperativeness will be the ones to have children and pass their genes on.

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Question: how come there are self-absorbed people? Or is it that self-absorbed people will suddenly stop reproducing? If so, why?

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Originally Posted by Eldritch

Humanity is devolving. Evolution happens when different populations of the same species become isolated from each other, and then adapt to the environment they live in. What's happening now is the reverse, populations that before lived apart are now mixing together.

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I don't think things are as simple and black-and-white as that. On the contrary, people of all races with the means tend to congregate in cities like London - where money/employment/social status are more deciding factors than race or ethnic origin. I've met some really bright people here from the darkest corners of Africa and Asia who are most definitely above-average intellectually than any given European population.

We're still evolving, but conditioned by our modern world technologies, food supply, etc., of course.

By the way, I notice people here is getting taller generation after generation! I was born in 1984 and I'm 178 cm tall, my parents generation was smaller, like, 150-160 cm women and 160-170 cm men. I notice also that most of the individuals I know born after me are even taller than me, like >180 cm. Women, especially, are getting taller.

Evolution is simply changes in clade members over time. How we're changing now, and even have changed since the development of organized settle agricultural societies IS up for debate. But evolution always happens.

Also, evolution is not just about environmental pressures to develop certain traits - it's also as much about a lack of pressures against developing traits. A lot of needless confusion comes from ignoring the latter factor.

ADDED: While still on this subject, there's also a lot of debate about whether behavior is primarily natural or learned from society (i.e., the "nature vs nurture" debate). This is not likely to be settled for a long time, if ever. Me, I'd say it's about 70% cultural/environmental, 30% genetics. Genes may influence our behaviors or our responses to outside factors, but they are not rigid destiny.

Unfortunately, humans have not evolved near as fast as our technology has. We are still built to be hunter-gatherers, not office workers. Hence why we still have the genetic predisposition to obesity and a hard-wired preference for fatty high calorie foods. This was key to survival in those times.

This is why we need exercise, because we're meant to run and catch supper, not open the fridge or go through the drive-thru and grab it.

It is possible, that we will evolve to accommodate our sedentary lifestyles eventually. Or maybe, the people who don't gain weight easily despite a high fat diet and sedentary lifestyle, or the people who don't like fatty foods - both technically genetic defects which would have meant certain death in those times - will have a reproductive advantage so the "normal" (or maybe archaic) human genes will eventually be phased out via natural selection.

But, if our technology ever fails us, the guy who eats junk everyday, never exercises, and never gains a pound, or the fussy eater who would normally choose a salad over a burger even when not doing it for health benefits (that's me, I've been like that since I was a kid and my parents thought I was weird for not liking junk and candy like "normal" kids) will die.

always evolving, although becoming a weaker species due to technology/modern medicine.

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Originally Posted by TheCelt

always evolving, although becoming a weaker species due to technology/modern medicine.

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That is true. The rise in food allergies (ie peanuts) is due to improvements in sanitation and medicine.

Did Darwin take into account technology when he was brainstorming his theories?

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Originally Posted by Zadosus

Did Darwin take into account technology when he was brainstorming his theories?

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I mentioned in a previous post, that we have not evolved as fast as our technology has.

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Originally Posted by AcadianDriftwood

That is true. The rise in food allergies (ie peanuts) is due to improvements in sanitation and medicine.

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modern medicine is a great thing to help people live longer, happier lives. but when you look at the human race as a species we are becoming physically weaker because anyone with a genetic defect/disease will more than likely survive longer and procreate which will pass those defective genes along hence keeping the defect alive.

however; the flip side is that even though we are physically becoming weaker we are living longer and the population continues to grow in spite of disease, etc... so we are becoming stronger in that sense. eventually we may end up with frail little bodies and big heads and float around to get to where we need to be. ;)

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Originally Posted by AcadianDriftwood

I mentioned in a previous post, that we have not evolved as fast as our technology has.

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We dont need to (physically) evolve anymore, we only need to get smarter to develop new technologies and it will take care of the rest.

But getting smarter IS evolving, so my answer is YES.

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Originally Posted by Zadosus

We dont need to evolve anymore, we only need to get smarter to develop new technologies and it will take care of the rest.

But getting smarter IS evolving, so my answer is YES.

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Yeah but as I mentioned, humans are genetically hard-wired to prefer the taste of fatty, high calorie foods and to gain weight. This was for survival in the old days, but now as we don't run and catch supper anymore, it is detrimental to us.

If humans evolve, it'll be in a way where the people who eat a lot of junk, never do exercise, and never gain, have the advantage and those genes (which are technically defects) spread.

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Originally Posted by AcadianDriftwood

Yeah but as I mentioned, humans are genetically hard-wired to prefer the taste of fatty, high calorie foods and to gain weight. This was for survival in the old days, but now as we don't run and catch supper anymore, it is detrimental to us.

If humans evolve, it'll be in a way where the people who eat a lot of junk, never do exercise, and never gain, have the advantage and those genes (which are technically defects) spread.

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Fat people are unatractive, die younger and are not ideal mating partners. Peer pressure will always be present in our society, and it will prevent overweight people from ever being considered as beautiful individuals by others.

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Originally Posted by Zadosus

Fat people are unatractive, die younger and are not ideal mating partners. Peer pressure will always be present in our society, and it will prevent overweight people from ever being considered as beautiful individuals by others.

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Yes, but this will lead the people with genetics that cause not as much weight gain to be able to spread their genes more.

Especially if they're naturally that way, because I find health nazis incredibly annoying and will not date one. Exercise is fine, I like exercise, it's fun... but as soon as you get into not eating anything that tastes good for fear of getting fat (especially if they complain about said meal), then get away from me.

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Originally Posted by AcadianDriftwood

Yes, but this will lead the people with genetics that cause not as much weight gain to be able to spread their genes more.

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Like me: I can eat tons of food but im unable to gain weight.

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Especially if they're naturally that way, because I find health nazis incredibly annoying and will not date one. Exercise is fine, I like exercise, it's fun... but as soon as you get into not eating anything that tastes good for fear of getting fat (especially if they complain about said meal), then get away from me.

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Ive never been on a diet in my life and I dont think I'll ever be. I eat a crapload of junk food, sweets, meat, chicken, pork with lots of salt and grease.

I have good genes. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Zadosus

Ive never been on a diet in my life and I dont think I'll ever be. I eat a crapload of junk food, sweets, meat, chicken, pork with lots of salt and grease.

I have good genes. :cool:

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Actually, those are bad genes, technically. Humans gain weight (and prefer junk), to store fat as an energy source for times when food will not be available.

I don't like much junk food, except chocolate. Those are bad genes as well.

But, I have this friend who drinks nothing but prune juice and eats wheatgrass and all this nasty stuff - and complains about how nasty it is - because he's so "health obsessed". It's actually quite annoying. And this guy is attracted to me, I will never date a man like that.

Bad genes my buttocks: I can stay in shape while eating greasy shit at the same time. That's a luxury not many people have, and it's a big plus in our society, where staying slim is a godsend.

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Originally Posted by Zadosus

Bad genes my buttocks: I can stay in shape while eating greasy shit at the same time. That's a luxury not many people have, and it's a big plus in our society, where staying slim is a godsend.

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A poor diet will catch up with you later in life.

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Originally Posted by Loddfafner

A poor diet will catch up with you later in life.

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It's not a daily thing, more like once a week. I eat at home most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Zadosus

Like me: I can eat tons of food but im unable to gain weight.



Ive never been on a diet in my life and I dont think I'll ever be. I eat a crapload of junk food, sweets, meat, chicken, pork with lots of salt and grease.

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its called being 22. time will change that. :thumb001:

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Originally Posted by TheCelt

its called being 22. time will change that. :thumb001:

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My brother is 30 and he is just like me in that regard.

i was half joking, but it is a fact that your metabolism will slow down as you get older. i was the same way until about 3-4 years ago and now it takes a lot of work to maintain a level of fitness that came very easy in my 20's.

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Originally Posted by AcadianDriftwood

Unfortunately, humans have not evolved near as fast as our technology has. We are still built to be hunter-gatherers, not office workers. Hence why we still have the genetic predisposition to obesity and a hard-wired preference for fatty high calorie foods. This was key to survival in those times.

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At least as fascinating will be how human psychology will change - particularly how much value we put on peace, accommodation and cooperation vs power, brute force (or capacity thereof), and aggressiveness. Back 10,000 BC our most powerful weapons were arrows, stone spears thrown with a jai alai like stick to increase speed further, and fire.

By the industrial revolution, large wars got even more destructive (generally). By well into the Cold War, thousands of nukes on both sides (although only a few people had their finger on the button and they had a lot of failsafes to prevent accidental launch). Today? A gene sequencer plus Internet-obtained info about diseases? All the above could easily kill billions if used to their full potential and extent. Even worse, more and more people are getting the expertise to sequence those genes and manufacture deadlier germs - from what I hear for no more than the price of three fresh-out-of-the-factory BMWs (certainly much cheaper than nuke bomb plants)

Yet, after all this, we're still the same old human beings?

Yep, we gotta either evolve or die, or we'll be done in by our own technology (that genie's long out the bottle now!)