Y-DNA A1b1-M118

I stumbled upon a native Portuguese that has this results:

Haplogroup

Maternal L1b1a6
Paternal A1b1-M118

European 99.9%

Iberian 71.6%
British & Irish 2.7%
Italian 2.6%
French & German 0.0%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%
Balkan 0.2%
Finnish 0.1%
Broadly Southern European 12.0%
Broadly Northwestern European 7.4%
Broadly European 3.2%

Western Asian & North African 0.1%


This is extremely rare and unusual. From my understanding this particular branch is not even common among modern humans in Africa, where it supposedly originated from. What are your thoughts and hypothesis?

WE WUZ KANGS N SHIET, lol. A truly descendant of a Black moor. The haplogroup is very common among the Nilotic and Omotic peoples of East Africa.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toppo900

WE WUZ KANGS N SHIET, lol. A truly descendant of a Black moor. The haplogroup is very common among the Nilotic and Omotic peoples of East Africa.

---

I think it is a survivor from a way older era than that, besides I am not aware of Moors from Kenya and Uganda. They have found A haplogroups in Sardinia and Scadinavia\Finland before but it is extremely rare.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viriato

I think it is a survivor from a way older era than that, besides I am not aware of Moors from Kenya and Uganda. They have found A haplogroups in Sardinia and Scadinavia\Finland before but it is extremely rare.

---

Dude, I was just pulling your leg. The man doesn't even score SSA admixture for it to be recent.

https://i.postimg.cc/SKrKsZ3k/Opera-...lomaps-com.png

His HG may be as old as Paleolithic in Europe.

He his african on both sides. It would be interesting to see his k15 or k13 results.

The clade ancestral to his has been found in Sardinia and Saudi Arabia. https://www.yfull.com/arch-4.01/tree/A-M13/

who did he test with? That must be some mistake

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

The clade ancestral to his has been found in Sardinia and Saudi Arabia. https://www.yfull.com/arch-4.01/tree/A-M13/

---

Didnt the Moors invade Sardinia though?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dick

Didnt the Moors invade Sardinia though?

---

Sardinia was raided by Saracen Arabs from north Africa. I have seen many Arabs get A as a haplogroup, it may be from Arab contact with Africans but it could also be older

This haplogroup despite being extremely rare has higher incidence in Central Europe and Western Balkans. By far more than in Iberia, hence why I don't find the Moor hypothesis to be very solid and speculative.

He tested with 23andMe. I don't have the Raw Data. The guy has light brown hair, is blue eyed and looks Iberian if that makes any difference anyway. I highly doubt by his autosomal results that we would see any significant difference from other locals on Gedmatch runs.

I do find odd as well that both his Y-DNA and mtDNA are African in origin. What are the chances?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viriato

I do find odd as well that both his Y-DNA and mtDNA are African in origin. What are the chances?

---

Yes just noticed extremely odd. His mtdna might be West African related ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jana

Yes just noticed extremely odd. His mtdna might be West African related ?

---

His mtDNA is West African. His Y-DNA is originally from the Horn of Africa. 23andMe says he is 99.9% European though. Really odd.

I was even thinking that he could be an extreme rare survivor of some lineage of first humans that inhabited Europe but seems really far fetched considering that both haplogroups are African.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viriato

His mtDNA is West African. His Y-DNA is originally from the Horn of Africa. 23andMe says he is 99.9% European though. Really odd.

I was even thinking that he could be an extreme rare survivor of some lineage of first humans that inhabited Europe but seems really far fetched considering that both haplogroups are African.

---

I think you are right about his YDNA being native to Europe for long, I did see some A's among ethnic Scandinavians without foreign admixture.
Remember to have read somewhere there is A lineage only typical for Europe and his might be one of those. mtDNA more likely to be recent African, IMHO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viriato

This haplogroup despite being extremely rare has higher incidence in Central Europe and Western Balkans. By far more than in Iberia

---

Based on?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viriato

This haplogroup despite being extremely rare has higher incidence in Central Europe and Western Balkans. By far more than in Iberia, hence why I don't find the Moor hypothesis to be very solid and speculative.

He tested with 23andMe. I don't have the Raw Data. The guy has light brown hair, is blue eyed and looks Iberian if that makes any difference anyway. I highly doubt by his autosomal results that we would see any significant difference from other locals on Gedmatch runs.

I do find odd as well that both his Y-DNA and mtDNA are African in origin. What are the chances?

---

23andme is not good at determining haplogroups. Both can be some rare subclades that has been in Europe for a long time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insuperable

Based on?

---

Based on the map I posted previously with the incidences of this particular haplogroup in Europe. Green dots means from 1 to 20 individuals. Probably each green dot means just 1 individual to be honest, considering how rare it is. So if there is 20 dots that's nothings considering those regions have millions of inhabitants. I think this particular haplogroup doesn't represent even 0.1% of the combined European genepool. That's how rare it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viriato

Based on the map I posted previously with the incidences of this particular haplogroup in Europe. Green dots means from 1 to 20 individuals. Probably each green dot means just 1 individual to be honest, considering how rare it is. So if there is 20 dots that's nothings considering those regions have millions of inhabitants. I think this particular haplogroup doesn't represent even 0.1% of the combined European genepool. That's how rare it is.

---

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahh ahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhah ahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaHahah ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha hahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha hahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahah ahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahh ahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhah ahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaHahahahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha hhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahaha hahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahaha hahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahah aahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahh ahahahahahhahahahhahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahha hahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahah ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha hahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha hahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahah ahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahh ahahahhahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha hhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahaha hahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahaha hahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahah aHahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahah hahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahha hahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahah ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha hahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha hahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaHahahahaha hahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahah hahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha hhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahaha hahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaHahahahahahahahahahah ahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhaha haahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahah hahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahha hahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahah ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha hahahhahahahhahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahah ahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahaha hahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahah hahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha hhahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahah ahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahah ahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhaha ha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dick

23andme is not good at determining haplogroups. Both can be some rare subclades that has been in Europe for a long time.

---

I thought 23andMe was pretty accurate at predicting your haplogroup, it just doesn't go deeper on subclades.

I will try to contact him, perhaps he doesn't even realize how rare is haplogroup is. In Anthrogenica I am sure there would be people that would be even interested in funding him a BigY considering how unusual it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viriato

I thought 23andMe was pretty accurate at predicting your haplogroup, it just doesn't go deeper on subclades.

I will try to contact him, perhaps he doesn't even realize how rare is haplogroup is. In Anthrogenica I am sure there would be people that would be even interested in funding him a BigY considering how unusual it is.

---

He is definitely rare. Seems as though his parents found each other after coming out of Africa thousands of years ago xD Tell him to buy a lottery ticket.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insuperable

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahh ahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhah ahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaHahah ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha hahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha hahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahah ahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahh ahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhah ahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaHahahahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha hhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahaha hahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahaha hahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahah aahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahh ahahahahahhahahahhahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahha hahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahah ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha hahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha hahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahah ahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahh ahahahhahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha hhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahaha hahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahaha hahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahah aHahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahah hahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahha hahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahah ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha hahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha hahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaHahahahaha hahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahah hahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha hhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahaha hahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaHahahahahahahahahahah ahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhaha haahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahah hahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahha hahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahah ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha hahahhahahahhahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahah ahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahaha hahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahah hahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha hhahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahah ahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahah ahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhaha ha.

---

Trying to imply that I went as far as making up a map or something else?

I took it from haplomaps.com, a portal dedicated to haplogroups and mapping its reported incidences across the world.

You better keep on posting naked photos on a forum with 98% of male members instead of trying to be edgy.

Well, does that imply at some grade that Y/mt in fact has no direct connection with Autosomal results?

I still somewhat biased after Xcode ML results about anything being "credible" or likely "something isn't that 100% right at all".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viriato

Trying to imply that I went as far as making up a map or something else?

I took it from haplomaps.com, a portal dedicated to haplogroups and mapping its reported incidences across the world.

You better keep on posting naked photos on a forum with 98% of male members instead of trying to be edgy.

---

No, I am not trying to imply that. I was trying to find is what you wrote true and I found that map too on haplomaps.com. I came to conclusion that what you wrote you based on that map you posted. Green dots imply from 0 to 20. And all green dots in Europe mean zero A1b1. Click on them. A1b1 green dots in Africa for example vary between 0 and 20. It's like you saw first heat map in your life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viriato

Green dots means from 1 to 20 individuals. Probably each green dot means just 1 individual to be honest, considering how rare it is. So if there is 20 dots that's nothings considering those regions have millions of inhabitants. I think this particular haplogroup doesn't represent even 0.1% of the combined European genepool. That's how rare it is.

---

https://media.giphy.com/media/1HL6oa...acBJ/giphy.gif

A in Europe either falls under A1a and has a TMRCA of only 2100ybp, which makes it likely to come from a roman slave.
The A1b clades found in Europe have a much older TMRCA and seem to be also common in the Middle East, which probably makes it an early farmer introduction.
Still it is really rare, but it also could have been from the times of the Portuguese Empire. Autosomal genes would be diluted and there would be nothing detectable nowadays, even only after 400 years.
The notion that A in Europe is Paleo/Mesolithic is clearly wrong, there's no proof for that at all in ancient remains and European A branches have all much younger coalescent ages.

holy crap, both of them are african with no autossomal ssa showing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toppo900

Dude, I was just pulling your leg. The man doesn't even score SSA admixture for it to be recent.

---

Its African Y dna. I Dont share any autosomal dna with my Y dna match and we only have a genetic distance of 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dick

He is definitely rare. Seems as though his parents found each other after coming out of Africa thousands of years ago xD Tell him to buy a lottery ticket.

---

Its possible its only 1,000 years ago

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dick

Didnt the Moors invade Sardinia though?

---

Yes, thats why the flag has a moors head.

Hello guys !

i am 94% Russian and 6% Scandinavian BUT my y-DNA haplogroup is the same - A1b1b2b1-M118 . Rare african type . To be honest i was quite surprised.

Hello guys !

i am 94% Russian and 6% Scandinavian BUT my y-DNA haplogroup is the same - A1b1b2b1-M118 . Rare african type . To be honest i was quite surprised.

Hi,
What kind of test did you take? I find it very hard to believe, to be honest with you. Not even most blacks have that haplogroup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leto

Hi,
What kind of test did you take? I find it very hard to believe, to be honest with you. Not even most blacks have that haplogroup.

---

Sounds like he uploaded an ancestrydna raw data to one of those ydna upload sites. their raw data isn't good.

My friend and I are debating this one. I bet this is from the Atlantic slave trade. He bets it's Muslim-era. Technically, Roman era and onwards is possible. No, it's not older in Europe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dick

Sounds like he uploaded an ancestrydna raw data to one of those ydna upload sites. their raw data isn't good.

---

Good point, I was thinking similar. Looks like a false prediction. Some rare Pygmy or South African type Y DNA is outright impossible in Russia or just about anywhere in Europe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leto

Good point, I was thinking similar. Looks like a false prediction. Some rare Pygmy or South African type Y DNA is outright impossible in Russia or just about anywhere in Europe.

---

Calm your bogatyr horses, it's possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dick

Sounds like he uploaded an ancestrydna raw data to one of those ydna upload sites. their raw data isn't good.

---

AncestryDNA is pretty good for Y data. They just removed it recently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leto

Good point, I was thinking similar. Looks like a false prediction. Some rare Pygmy or South African type Y DNA is outright impossible in Russia or just about anywhere in Europe.

---

What my ancestrydna raw data gives me. I belong in a museum.

https://i.imgur.com/C842Wa9.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dick

What my ancestrydna raw data gives me. I belong in a museum.

https://i.imgur.com/C842Wa9.png

---

The negative and positive SNPs to the right likely make it clear that you're really the second one.

There is one eritrean related to me on 23andme he has the latest ydna