Very interesting gedmatch results of one of my matches from Croatia (either Serb or Serb-Croat mix)

I haven't been able to find much data on this woman other than her facebook profile. She lives in Croatia and her surname is Kalember, a rare one, but it seems to be almost entirely Serbian, though her backround is uncertain since she put no details in her family tree. Anyway, the extreme amount of Baltic coupled with low North Atlantic and high Med makes her an outlier among all the samples from that region I've seen so far. What do you think is the cause of that?


EUROGENES K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 32.88
2 North_Atlantic 20.37
3 East_Med 15.85
4 West_Med 14.72
5 West_Asian 10.87
6 Red_Sea 2.85
7 South_Asian 1.19
8 East_Asian 0.49
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 Amerindian 0.26
11 Siberian 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 6.22
2 Serbian 7.88
3 Romanian 8.77
4 Croatian 9.05
5 Bulgarian 9.31
6 Hungarian 12.22
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.18
8 Ukrainian 15.41
9 South_Polish 15.62
10 Austrian 16.56
11 East_German 17.37
12 Southwest_Russian 17.53
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.6
14 Greek_Thessaly 17.69
15 Polish 18.65
16 Russian_Smolensk 19.79
17 Estonian_Polish 20.32
18 Tatar 21.01
19 Belorussian 21.03
20 Kargopol_Russian 21.77

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.3% Ukrainian + 28.7% Cyprian @ 1.87
2 58.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 41.8% Central_Greek @ 2.29
3 50.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 49.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.36
4 73.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 26.9% Cyprian @ 2.36
5 74.5% Ukrainian + 25.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.38
6 65.9% Russian_Smolensk + 34.1% Cyprian @ 2.39
7 59.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 40.6% East_Sicilian @ 2.41
8 58.3% Southwest_Russian + 41.7% Central_Greek @ 2.49
9 74.1% Ukrainian + 25.9% Samaritan @ 2.57
10 62.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.7% South_Italian @ 2.58
11 50.9% Central_Greek + 49.1% Lithuanian @ 2.61
12 67.3% Polish + 32.7% Cyprian @ 2.64
13 72.2% Ukrainian + 27.8% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.75
14 65.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 34.1% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.77
15 65.4% Estonian_Polish + 34.6% Cyprian @ 2.8
16 59.5% Southwest_Russian + 40.5% East_Sicilian @ 2.81
17 76.2% Ukrainian_Lviv + 23.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.82
18 50.2% Southwest_Russian + 49.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.87
19 55.3% Russian_Smolensk + 44.7% Central_Greek @ 2.92
20 62.5% Southwest_Russian + 37.5% South_Italian @ 2.93


EUROGENES K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.24
2 Atlantic 16.5
3 Eastern_Euro 12.8
4 East_Med 12.53
5 North_Sea 11.43
6 West_Asian 11.19
7 West_Med 8.89
8 Red_Sea 2.67
9 South_Asian 0.66
10 Oceanian 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 8.48
2 Bulgarian 8.76
3 Moldavian 8.96
4 Croatian 9.3
5 Serbian 10.14
6 Austrian 12.35
7 Hungarian 13.01
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.42
9 South_Polish 14.57
10 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.46
11 Ukrainian 15.51
12 Russian_Smolensk 15.55
13 Southwest_Russian 16.34
14 Greek 16.6
15 Polish 16.88
16 Greek_Thessaly 17.32
17 East_German 17.5
18 Belorussian 17.93
19 Estonian_Polish 18.14
20 Kargopol_Russian 20.22

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.4% Russian_Smolensk + 30.6% Cyprian @ 3.75
2 51.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 48.1% Greek @ 3.97
3 51.8% Russian_Smolensk + 48.2% Greek @ 4.07
4 62.8% Russian_Smolensk + 37.2% South_Italian @ 4.13
5 63% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37% South_Italian @ 4.14
6 65.9% Bulgarian + 34.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.15
7 56.3% Greek + 43.7% Lithuanian @ 4.19
8 72.9% Bulgarian + 27.1% Lithuanian @ 4.21
9 59.4% Russian_Smolensk + 40.6% Central_Greek @ 4.21
10 66.1% Bulgarian + 33.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 4.27
11 52.1% Greek + 47.9% Belorussian @ 4.35
12 69.6% Bulgarian + 30.4% Belorussian @ 4.36
13 67.5% Bulgarian + 32.5% Southwest_Russian @ 4.39
14 50.4% Southwest_Russian + 49.6% Greek @ 4.42
15 59.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 40.4% Central_Greek @ 4.5
16 70% Bulgarian + 30% Estonian_Polish @ 4.5
17 60.5% Russian_Smolensk + 39.5% East_Sicilian @ 4.56
18 51.5% Lithuanian + 48.5% Central_Greek @ 4.59
19 70.4% Russian_Smolensk + 29.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.62
20 59.3% Belorussian + 40.7% South_Italian @ 4.63

Seems similar to a Croat match of mine but mine is even more south shifted, Croat from Zadar. She matches closest to Serb and has double the average east med of Croat sample. She lists her surnames they are all pure croat.

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.36
2 North_Atlantic 24.99
3 East_Med 18.73
4 West_Med 14.39
5 West_Asian 9.1
6 Red_Sea 1.72
7 Oceanian 1.04
8 Siberian 0.85
9 Sub-Saharan 0.81

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 3.92
2 Romanian 4.97
3 Bulgarian 6.48
4 Moldavian 8.66
5 Hungarian 10.54
6 Croatian 10.86
7 Austrian 14.16
8 Greek_Thessaly 14.75
9 East_German 15.75
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.02
11 South_Polish 17.4
12 Ukrainian 18.14
13 West_German 18.91
14 North_Italian 18.94
15 Tuscan 19.29
16 French 20.38
17 South_Dutch 20.6
18 Italian_Abruzzo 20.77
19 Southwest_Russian 20.81
20 Polish 21.04

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlado_Kalember

I always tough Vlado Kalember was a Jew, but is he Serb ? I am confused he was born in Macedonia, maybe son of some JNA officer.
This woman might be his relative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ayetooey

Seems similar to a Croat match of mine but mine is even more south shifted, Croat from Zadar. She matches closest to Serb and has double the average east med of Croat sample. She lists her surnames they are all pure croat.

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.36
2 North_Atlantic 24.99
3 East_Med 18.73
4 West_Med 14.39
5 West_Asian 9.1
6 Red_Sea 1.72
7 Oceanian 1.04
8 Siberian 0.85
9 Sub-Saharan 0.81

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 3.92
2 Romanian 4.97
3 Bulgarian 6.48
4 Moldavian 8.66
5 Hungarian 10.54
6 Croatian 10.86
7 Austrian 14.16
8 Greek_Thessaly 14.75
9 East_German 15.75
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.02
11 South_Polish 17.4
12 Ukrainian 18.14
13 West_German 18.91
14 North_Italian 18.94
15 Tuscan 19.29
16 French 20.38
17 South_Dutch 20.6
18 Italian_Abruzzo 20.77
19 Southwest_Russian 20.81
20 Polish 21.04

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Mate, I think Zadar is full of croatised Italians like Robocuck and probably most southern plotting Dalmatian city.
Zadar was only city with Italian majority in Dalmatia until end of WW2.

According to Actacroatica Kalember is serb name. https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Kalember/

Actacroatica claims every surname is Croat usually so for it to say this surname is Serb shows its a very serb name.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nato

Mate, I think Zadar is full of croatised Italians like Robocuck and probably most southern plotting Dalmatian city.
Zadar was only city with Italian majority in Dalmatia until end of WW2.

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Zadar was melting pot, I can't find old demographics but I've been told there was a lot of Serbs there also, this woman is my 3rd closest match on gedmatch so she might have serb ancestor. I'll do k15 and some point see if she plots south east or south west. Italian admixed people always plot strongly to south-west, like that istrian croat who was 1/4th north italian.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ayetooey

Zadar was melting pot, I can't find old demographics but I've been told there was a lot of Serbs there also, this woman is my 3rd closest match on gedmatch so she might have serb ancestor. I'll do k15 and some point see if she plots south east or south west. Italian admixed people always plot strongly to south-west, like that istrian croat who was 1/4th north italian.

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Countryside surrounding Zadar was very Serb in good part, so probably some mixing did happen.

Gedmatch was an experiment that failed long before yugoslavia did.

Kalember's Serbs from Lika (Korenica) are tested as R1a-Z280>Y2613.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

Kalember's Serbs from Lika (Korenica) are tested as R1a-Z280>Y2613.

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He is talking about my match I posted who is Croat from Zadar, Kalember Serb is Commonsenses match.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ayetooey

He is talking about my match I posted who is Croat from Zadar, Kalember Serb is Commonsenses match.

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I see now.

I don't know is there Croatian Kalember's.
Serbian Kalember's from Lika carry clade of R1a which is typical for Chakavian Croatians and very rare among Serbs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

I see now.

I don't know is there Croatian Kalember's.
Serbian Kalember's from Lika carry clade of R1a which is typical for Chakavian Croatians and very rare among Serbs.

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Here's her PCA:

https://i.imgur.com/GzYZlaA.png

She's eastern shifted on Dodecad k12b, more Caucasus and SW Asia compared to Atlantic Med. Quite a unique example since there's no logical explanation for her results, considering the region she's from.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 40.51
2 Atlantic_Med 23.58
3 Caucasus 22.3
4 Southwest_Asian 6.98
5 Gedrosia 4.53
6 Northwest_African 0.79
7 South_Asian 0.56
8 East_Asian 0.55
9 Southeast_Asian 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanians (Behar) 7.2
2 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 8.77
3 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 9.7
4 Hungarians (Behar) 10.36
5 German (Dodecad) 16.8
6 O_Italian (Dodecad) 20.37
7 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 21.76
8 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 22.27
9 N_Italian (Dodecad) 22.6
10 Dutch (Dodecad) 23.1
11 Greek (Dodecad) 23.52
12 Polish (Dodecad) 23.59
13 French (Dodecad) 23.63
14 French (HGDP) 23.92
15 TSI30 (Metspalu) 24.71
16 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 24.86
17 Tuscan (HGDP) 25.13
18 Kent (1000Genomes) 25.43
19 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 25.5
20 C_Italian (Dodecad) 25.52

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 17.8% Druze (HGDP) @ 1.38
2 83.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 16.6% Samaritians (Behar) @ 1.52
3 80.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 19.2% Lebanese (Behar) @ 1.86
4 83.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 16.9% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.01
5 56.3% Polish (Dodecad) + 43.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.25
6 82.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 17.3% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.25
7 83.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 16.6% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.26
8 55.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 44.5% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 2.34
9 55% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 45% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.41
10 81.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 18.5% Syrians (Behar) @ 2.43
11 83.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 16.8% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.47
12 80.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 19.3% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.52
13 82.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 17.9% Jordanians (Behar) @ 2.55
14 83.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 16.8% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.58
15 52.3% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 47.7% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.61
16 82.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 17.5% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 2.61
17 60.5% Polish (Dodecad) + 39.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.63
18 53% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 47% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 2.64
19 56.2% Polish (Dodecad) + 43.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.76
20 82% Hungarians (Behar) + 18% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.83

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

I see now.

I don't know is there Croatian Kalember's.
Serbian Kalember's from Lika carry clade of R1a which is typical for Chakavian Croatians and very rare among Serbs.

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And which is that ?

Edit: I see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nato

And which is that ?

Edit: I see.

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That is so called Carpathian-Dalmatian R1a. This branch of R1a is quite common among Chakavian Croatians and very rare among Serbs and Shtokavian Croatians. Only Krajina Serbs have little higher Carthathian-Dalmatian R1a, even among them is not more than 5%.
Few Serbs which carry R1a-Z280>Y2613 are probably former Croatians, like hundreds of thousands Croatian which carry I2-PH908 are former Serbs (R1a-Z280>Y2613 = proto-Croatian marker / I2-PH908= proto-Serbian marker).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

That is so called Carpathian-Dalmatian R1a. This branch of R1a is quite common among Chakavian Croatians and very rare among Serbs and Shtokavian Croatians. Only Krajina Serbs have little higher Carthathian-Dalmatian R1a, even among them is not more than 5%.
Few Serbs which carry R1a-Z280>Y2613 are probably former Croatians, like hundreds of thousands Croatian which carry I2-PH908 are former Serbs (R1a-Z280>Y2613 = proto-Croatian marker / I2-PH908= proto-Serbian marker).

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There is no PH908 among Sorbs, read Jana mate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nato

There is no PH908 among Sorbs, read Jana mate.

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So what?
Proto-Serbs were not from Lusatia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

So what?
Proto-Serbs were not from Lusatia.

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Sorbs / lužički SRBI are their direct descendants. But now you don't like it because they have absolutely no PH908. Sorry mate, that's a fact you will have to deal with.