Croatian Eurogenes results

I uploaded the Zagreb and B&H Croat academic samples to Gedmatch. I thought the "official" Eurogenes k13 Croatian average was caluclated from these samples, turns out it's probably just one person's result, not a proper average, just like the Serbian one.

here are the averages of the academic samples and the old one from Eurogenes k13:

.	North_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	Northeast_African	Sub-Saharan
Eurogenes_official_average	27.21	36.11	14.54	7.94	9.44	1.45	0.97	0.30	0.33	0.80	0.40	0.32	0.19
Zagreb	28.82	33.74	14.87	7.43	11.13	1.49	0.45	0.26	0.49	0.56	0.40	0.23	0.13
Herzegovina	25.99	33.19	15.00	8.53	13.27	1.11	0.95	0.05	0.72	0.74	0.45	0.00	0.00
Bosnia	26.85	32.16	15.72	7.30	13.75	1.74	0.73	0.21	0.56	0.28	0.52	0.10	0.09
Split	25.95	31.39	16.33	8.23	13.73	1.64	0.39	0.35	0.52	0.56	0.56	0.22	0.13
Zagreb+Bosnia+Herz+Split	26.90	32.62	15.48	7.87	12.97	1.49	0.63	0.22	0.57	0.53	0.48	0.14	0.09

ZF3039608	Croat_Bosnia_1
DZ9261363	Croat_Bosnia_12
LM6695156	Croat_Bosnia_12_2
HA6762284	Croat_Bosnia_16
JK5425682	Croat_Bosnia_19
XV6261662	Croat_Bosnia_6
FJ1838930	Croat_Croatia_133
FA7708544	Croat_Croatia_140
KQ4978920	Croat_Croatia_141
GT3633066	Croat_Croatia_142
KL2579480	Croat_Croatia_198
CA9512826	Croat_Croatia_26
QF3935386	Croat_Croatia_302
SB9020540	Croat_Croatia_305
MR9434030	Croat_Croatia_312
SV1626782	Croat_Croatia_344
CX2048211	Croat_Croatia_43
NA2951902	Croat_Croatia_432_outlier
ZA6592572	Croat_Croatia_53
QQ6973072	Croat_Herzegovina_1
EK3222333	Croat_Herzegovina_11
BT7536017	Croat_Herzegovina_13
PN8942085	Croat_Herzegovina_20
ZA3726481	Croat_Herzegovina_8
BZ1292358	Croatian_Split_CRO103
KF7635766	Croatian_Split_CRO107
CK9480635	Croatian_Split_CRO153
GL4082504	Croatian_Split_CRO31
ZB5145703	Croatian_Split_CRO41
EF2976947	Croatian_Split_CRO47
SR9089754	Croatian_Split_CRO48
BV3010803	Croatian_Split_CRO53
NK7287400	Croatian_Split_CRO66
CN7368883	Croatian_Split_CRO93

individual results

.	North_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	Northeast_African	Sub-Saharan
Croatian_Split_CRO103	23.46	32.45	17.06	8.66	10.15	5.57	0.93	0	0	0.06	1.65	0	0
Croatian_Split_CRO107	25.01	34.04	12.97	8.47	15.25	2.39	0	0	1.25	0	0.62	0	0
Croatian_Split_CRO153	29	27.57	17.17	4.16	16.37	1.87	0	0.48	0.81	1.14	0	0.68	0.73
Croatian_Split_CRO31	31.59	30.21	14.61	5.69	14.59	1.41	0.93	0	0	0.55	0	0.41	0
Croatian_Split_CRO41	24.31	34.41	15.55	9.74	13.14	0.31	0	0	0	1.48	0.24	0.81	0
Croatian_Split_CRO47	29.52	32.08	19.65	6.48	8.52	0.73	0	0.75	0.61	0.94	0.71	0	0
Croatian_Split_CRO48	25.55	28.76	16.9	8.55	16.82	0.97	0.93	0	0.18	0	1.34	0	0
Croatian_Split_CRO53	25.03	31.06	19.23	12.69	7.89	0.64	1.14	0	0.81	0.46	0.77	0.28	0
Croatian_Split_CRO66	20.04	30.21	14.21	11.28	19.05	2.02	0	1.49	0.46	0.95	0.3	0	0
Croatian_Split_CRO93	25.97	33.11	15.96	6.6	15.56	0.46	0	0.74	1.06	0	0	0	0.55
Split	25.95	31.39	16.33	8.23	13.73	1.64	0.39	0.35	0.52	0.56	0.56	0.22	0.13
cro_bos_1	25.95	30.03	16.85	6.06	16.04	2.05	1.2	0.16	0.21	0.93	0.48	0	0.04
cro_bos_12	28.02	35.67	12.87	6.18	13.86	1.25	0.28	0.49	0.17	0.07	0.8	0.35	0
cro_bos_12	30.69	33.84	16.24	5.56	8.38	1.9	2.64	0.33	0.37	0.02	0	0	0.03
cro_bos_16	25.67	32	16.84	7.1	14.64	1.29	0.07	0	1.53	0	0.26	0.26	0.34
cro_bos_19	27.4	29.85	14.53	9.99	16.72	0	0.03	0	0.97	0.3	0.21	0	0
cro_bos_6	23.39	31.55	16.96	8.9	12.88	3.93	0.17	0.3	0.11	0.34	1.35	0	0.12
Bosnia	26.85	32.16	15.72	7.3	13.75	1.74	0.73	0.21	0.56	0.28	0.52	0.1	0.09
cro_herz_1	26.2	33.79	15.18	9.91	12.18	0.74	0	0	0.57	1.01	0.41	0	0
cro_herz_11	29.87	31.69	13.83	7.41	10.3	0.89	4.17	0.01	1.02	0.61	0.19	0.01	0
cro_herz_13	27.54	31.42	16.45	7.85	12.35	3.19	0.03	0	1.04	0.09	0.02	0	0.01
cro_herz_20	26.6	32.35	13.59	7.14	17.39	0.05	0.53	0.08	0	1.71	0.57	0	0
cro_herz_8	19.74	36.68	15.96	10.33	14.14	0.68	0.04	0.15	0.96	0.27	1.05	0	0
Herzegovina	25.99	33.19	15	8.53	13.27	1.11	0.95	0.05	0.72	0.74	0.45	0	0
Croat_Croatia_26	26.38	34.91	15.05	10.92	7.3	1.22	2.57	0	0	1.03	0.16	0.46	0
Croat_Croatia_43	31.7	35.34	15.68	5.4	8.09	2.19	0	0.74	0.45	0	0.41	0	0
Croat_Croatia_53	28.84	37.04	12.76	6.55	11.15	1.98	0	0	0.6	0.53	0	0.54	0
Croat_Croatia_133	29.36	33.12	13.26	9.08	12.22	0	1.23	0.15	0.58	1.01	0	0	0
Croat_Croatia_140	29.47	35.36	14.86	6.78	10.77	0.62	0.24	0.42	0	0.84	0.44	0.2	0
Croat_Croatia_141	26.08	32.83	12.96	8.86	14.64	2.13	0	0.82	0	0.94	0.66	0	0.08
Croat_Croatia_142	26.03	38.69	13.15	6.09	11.56	1.82	0	1.03	0	0	0.97	0	0.63
Croat_Croatia_198	29.85	28.79	17.81	7.75	11.36	2.19	0	0	0.42	0	1.16	0.51	0.16
Croat_Croatia_302	28.73	32.28	15.61	7.73	13.56	0.42	0.1	0	0.86	0	0	0	0.68
Croat_Croatia_305	31.12	33.4	14.57	5.3	10.31	1.96	0.42	0	1.23	0.15	0.95	0.55	0
Croat_Croatia_312	29.32	34.78	15.44	6.84	9.68	1.07	0.1	0	0.9	1.39	0	0.48	0
Croat_Croatia_344	28.94	28.37	17.26	7.89	12.89	2.26	0.68	0	0.89	0.81	0	0	0
Zagreb	28.82	33.74	14.87	7.43	11.13	1.49	0.45	0.26	0.49	0.56	0.4	0.23	0.13

Nice, awesome work! I always knew official average was very off.
These averages need to be added to updated Vahaduo! Split and Bosnia are already there, If I'm not mistaken.

Old average should be deleted as it's useless.

My father's results, Croat as f..K :)

Distance to: Feiichy_Father

3.09213518 Croatia_average_academic
3.11486757 Croat_Zagreb
3.25670078 Szekely_Hungarian
3.50968660 Croat_Split
3.61921262 Croat_Bosnia
3.72561908 Serbian_Bosnia
3.73799411 HungarianTA
3.94295561 Slovenian
3.95914132 Croat_Herzegovina
3.97451884 South_Croat_average
4.16702532 Moldova_North
4.23561094 Hungarian_New
4.78144330 Bosniak_new_average
5.02407205 Bosniak_Tuzla
5.06943784 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
5.15425352 Bosnian
5.65732269 Csango_Gymes
5.71149718 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
5.71721086 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
5.78747032 Serbian_new
5.88855670 Moldavian
6.23608852 Serb_Croatia
6.53415641 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
6.84916053 Hungarian_East
7.19919440 Kaykavian_Croatian

Target: Feiichy_Father
Distance: 1.7272% / 1.72718184 | ADC: 0.25x

72.0 Croat_Zagreb
11.2 Romanian_Transylvania
10.2 Hungarian_Transdanubia
4.0 Romanian_Muntenia
2.0 Bosniak_Tuzla
0.6 Dai

Target: Feiichy_Father
Distance: 2.2541% / 2.25413607 | ADC: 0.5x

32.6 Croat_Split
25.4 Hungarian_New
20.8 Croat_Zagreb
19.8 Croatia_average_academic
1.4 Hungarian_Transdanubia

Target: Feiichy_Father
Distance: 2.5212% / 2.52123063 | ADC: 1x

51.0 Croatia_average_academic
32.2 Croat_Zagreb
16.8 HungarianTA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Split and Bosnia are already there, If I'm not mistaken.

---

Split is, the Bosnian one is just from 4 samples from both Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Interesting this one, 4.17% South Asian.

cro_herz_11,29.87,31.69,13.83,7.41,10.3,0.89,4.17, 0.01,1.02,0.61,0.19,0.01,0


Target: cro_herz_11
Distance: 0.8082% / 0.80817057 | ADC: 0.25x
49.0 Croat_Bosnia
19.6 Hungarian_East
12.4 Kaykavian_Croatian
9.0 Hungarian_Transdanubia
7.2 Hungarian_New
2.0 Chamar
0.8 Kol


Distance to: cro_herz_11
3.61527316 HungarianTA
3.63381342 Hungarian_New
3.70149041 Croat_Bosnia
4.39564871 Slovenian
5.48140493 Hungarian_East
5.60564002 Kaykavian_Croatian
5.66497132 Szekely
5.72608942 Csango_Gymes
6.28194237 Croatian
6.43932450 Croat_Split

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

Split is, the Bosnian one is just from 4 samples from both Bosnia and Herzegovina.

---

Thanks, I now saved real Bosnia average, will send these to Lukas and maybe will add to academic average Kajkavian average?
I don't think Slavic and Morlach cluster need to be added as Split average is basically between them.

What about Bosnian Serb average, how many samples and from where, it is good? It's very Croat like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Impaler

Interesting this one, 4.17% South Asian.

cro_herz_11,29.87,31.69,13.83,7.41,10.3,0.89,4.17, 0.01,1.02,0.61,0.19,0.01,0


Target: cro_herz_11
Distance: 0.8082% / 0.80817057 | ADC: 0.25x
49.0 Croat_Bosnia
19.6 Hungarian_East
12.4 Kaykavian_Croatian
9.0 Hungarian_Transdanubia
7.2 Hungarian_New
2.0 Chamar
0.8 Kol


Distance to: cro_herz_11
3.61527316 HungarianTA
3.63381342 Hungarian_New
3.70149041 Croat_Bosnia
4.39564871 Slovenian
5.48140493 Hungarian_East
5.60564002 Kaykavian_Croatian
5.66497132 Szekely
5.72608942 Csango_Gymes
6.28194237 Croatian
6.43932450 Croat_Split

---

Maybe minor Gypsy or rather steppe input? His other values are very usual.

Good stuff!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Impaler

Interesting this one, 4.17% South Asian.

cro_herz_11,29.87,31.69,13.83,7.41,10.3,0.89,4.17, 0.01,1.02,0.61,0.19,0.01,0


Target: cro_herz_11
Distance: 0.8082% / 0.80817057 | ADC: 0.25x
49.0 Croat_Bosnia
19.6 Hungarian_East
12.4 Kaykavian_Croatian
9.0 Hungarian_Transdanubia
7.2 Hungarian_New
2.0 Chamar
0.8 Kol


Distance to: cro_herz_11
3.61527316 HungarianTA
3.63381342 Hungarian_New
3.70149041 Croat_Bosnia
4.39564871 Slovenian
5.48140493 Hungarian_East
5.60564002 Kaykavian_Croatian
5.66497132 Szekely
5.72608942 Csango_Gymes
6.28194237 Croatian
6.43932450 Croat_Split

---

Romani people exist in Croatia too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leto

Good stuff!

Romani people exist in Croatia too.

---

His east med/west asian/red sea are not elevated, and his baltic/na is quite regular too.
na is even above average. So I am not sure what is ancestry of this person.

He/she is from Herzegovina btw, that's another country :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Est.1992

His east med/west asian/red sea are not elevated, and his baltic/na is quite regular too.
na is even above average. So I am not sure what is ancestry of this person.

He/she is from Herzegovina btw, that's another country :)

---

Maybe not Romani. Dodecad/Harappa need to be checked in such instances.

I think adding Kajkavian/NW average to this one (Zagreb, Split; BiH) will make it more realistic.
Because all these are southern Croat, Zagreb average is pretty similar to them too and lot of people there have southern roots.

Basically the Baltic ranges from 28 to 38 percent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Impaler

Interesting this one, 4.17% South Asian.

cro_herz_11,29.87,31.69,13.83,7.41,10.3,0.89,4.17, 0.01,1.02,0.61,0.19,0.01,0


Target: cro_herz_11
Distance: 0.8082% / 0.80817057 | ADC: 0.25x
49.0 Croat_Bosnia
19.6 Hungarian_East
12.4 Kaykavian_Croatian
9.0 Hungarian_Transdanubia
7.2 Hungarian_New
2.0 Chamar
0.8 Kol


Distance to: cro_herz_11
3.61527316 HungarianTA
3.63381342 Hungarian_New
3.70149041 Croat_Bosnia
4.39564871 Slovenian
5.48140493 Hungarian_East
5.60564002 Kaykavian_Croatian
5.66497132 Szekely
5.72608942 Csango_Gymes
6.28194237 Croatian
6.43932450 Croat_Split

---

He is from Mostar and belongs to haplogroup "Q1d", can't find anything about it, i guess it's this one: https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Z5902/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leto

Maybe not Romani. Dodecad/Harappa need to be checked in such instances.

---

Could be regular Herz. Croat who just happened to inherit weirdly high south asian trough recombination. Checking matches would be beneficial if we had kit of this sample.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

He is from Mostar and belongs to haplogroup "Q1d", can't find anything about it, i guess it's this one: https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Z5902/

---

Maybe some Turkic/central asian input. He scores some Siberian as well unlike others in that average.

New Croatian average :thumb001:

Distance to: Croat_new

1.50096636 Croat_Zagreb
1.64705798 Szekely_Hungarian
1.71213317 Croatia_average_academic
2.58309891 Croat_Bosnia
2.60290223 Croat_Herzegovina
2.68391505 Moldova_North
2.91807942 Serbian_Bosnia
2.95854694 Croat_Split
3.01681698 Slovenian
3.47630551 HungarianTA
3.47850543 Bosniak_Tuzla
4.14558802 Hungarian_New
4.23039825 Bosniak_Sarajevo_academic
4.27720703 Bosniak_new_average
4.35250503 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
4.49822187 Moldavian
4.84689591 Csango_Gymes
5.66675000 Serbian_new
5.69505926 Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes
6.05360223 Serb_Croatia
6.25231157 Romanian_Botosani
6.46212813 Hungarian_East
6.66629582 Kaykavian_Croatian
6.86357778 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
6.89598241 Slovak

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Thanks, I now saved real Bosnia average, will send these to Lukas and maybe will add to academic average Kajkavian average?
I don't think Slavic and Morlach cluster need to be added as Split average is basically between them.

What about Bosnian Serb average, how many samples and from where, it is good? It's very Croat like.

---

I don't really notice that, it's almost identical to other Serbian averages. anyway it's just 4 samples from Doboj and Banja Luka. i'll make new regional Serbian avreages these days.

^^^^
do you think these are good, than?
I am more and more thinking to delete Slavic and Morlach cluster, both are cherrypicked specific types of results, just like Bosniak Tuzla is cherrypicked specific average.

Croatia_average_academic,26.90,32.62,15.48,7.87,12 .97,1.49,0.63,0.22,0.57,0.53,0.48,0.14,0.09
Croat_Herzegovina,25.99,33.19,15.00,8.53,13.27,1.1 1,0.95,0.05,0.72,0.74,0.45,0.00,0.00
Croat_Zagreb,28.82,33.74,14.87,7.43,11.13,1.49,0.4 5,0.26,0.49,0.56,0.40,0.23,0.13
Croat_Bosnia,26.85,32.16,15.72,7.30,13.75,1.74,0.7 3,0.21,0.56,0.28,0.52,0.10,0.09
Croat_new,28.02,32.94,14.82,7.88,11.93,1.49,0.76,0 .32,0.47,0.66,0.43,0.11,0.08

This is how Serb_Bosnia scores btw, it's closer to Croats than to other Serb averages

Distance to: Serbian_Bosnia

0.89679290 South_Croat_average
0.95634068 Croat_Bosnia
1.15990840 Croat_Split
1.34892086 Croatia_average_academic
1.83059758 Bosniak_new_average
2.09002093 Croat_Herzegovina
2.31010898 Bosniak_Sarajevo_academic
2.66100310 Szekely_Hungarian
2.97378336 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
3.02765379 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
3.04522464 Serbian_new
3.15672100 Moldova_North
3.39412544 Serb_Croatia
4.17004646 Croat_Zagreb
4.23139900 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
4.73693862 Moldavian
4.76462354 Romanian_Botosani
4.99141137 Bosniak_Tuzla
5.02121873 Csango_Gymes
5.33755445 Croatian_new
5.34777874 HungarianTA
5.56654940 Slovenian
5.69452259 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
5.80700331 Serbian_Belgrade_academic
5.88880187 Romania_Moldavia_North

It's expected to be close to Bosniaks and BiH Croats though, that's natural.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

He is from Mostar and belongs to haplogroup "Q1d", can't find anything about it, i guess it's this one: https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Z5902/

---

That Bosnian there could be either Croat Čotić or Serbs Stevanovic from Bijeljina and one Serb from Herzegovina going by those from Poreklo. Z5902 seems to be from Srilanka, and so far it's subbranch present only in B&H. That guy seems to be mixed with Gypsies, but is there such haplo recored in Gypsies?

My results

Distance to: Feiichy

4.75888632 Slovenian
4.84778300 Croat_Zagreb
4.99062120 Croat_new
5.15228105 HungarianTA
5.19911531 Hungarian_New
5.41770247 Moldova_North
5.68896300 Szekely_Hungarian
5.91028764 Croatia_average_academic
6.25105591 Moldavian
6.25642869 Croat_Split
6.35274744 Croat_Herzegovina
6.39701493 Kaykavian_Croatian
6.67552152 Serbian_Bosnia
6.78232261 Croat_Bosnia
6.81097644 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
6.85846193 Bosniak_Tuzla
6.94197378 Hungarian_East
7.36825624 Bosniak_new_average
7.43570441 Csango_Gymes
7.52299825 Bosniak_Sarajevo_academic
7.68909618 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
7.82170429 Slovak
8.18067234 Hungarian_Transdanubia
8.25642780 Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes
8.45331371 Serbian_new

Target: Feiichy
Distance: 2.5764% / 2.57636631 | ADC: 0.25x

78.4 Slovenian
9.2 East_German
6.6 North_Ossetian
5.0 Austrian
0.8 Serb_North-Macedonia

I calculated new average wrongly, here is correct one. Looks pretty decent and very close to average in first post.

Croat_new,28.02,32.94,14.82,7.88,11.93,1.49,0.76,0 .32,0.47,0.66,0.43,0.11,0.08

It includes Croat Zagreb, Split, Bosnia, Herzegovina and Kajkavian.

Father updated

2.61111087 Croat_new
3.09213518 Croatia_average_academic
3.11486757 Croat_Zagreb
3.25670078 Szekely_Hungarian
3.50968660 Croat_Split
3.61921262 Croat_Bosnia
3.72561908 Serbian_Bosnia
3.94295561 Slovenian
3.95914132 Croat_Herzegovina
4.16702532 Moldova_North
4.23561094 Hungarian_New
4.78144330 Bosniak_new_average
5.02407205 Bosniak_Tuzla
5.06943784 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
5.15425352 Bosniak_Sarajevo_academic
5.65732269 Csango_Gymes
5.78747032 Serbian_new
5.88855670 Moldavian
6.23608852 Serb_Croatia
6.53415641 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
6.84916053 Hungarian_East
7.19919440 Kaykavian_Croatian
7.27835146 Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes
7.46307577 Romanian_Botosani
7.69783086 Hungarian_Transdanubia

Former member Hrvoje (Croat-Slovene mix from Zagreb with distant Czech)

Distance to: Hrvoje

4.40794737 Hungarian_New
5.07342094 Kaykavian_Croatian
5.41980090 Slovenian
5.46547345 Croat_Zagreb
5.59995536 Croat_new
6.19056540 Szekely_Hungarian
6.21292202 Hungarian_East
6.57380407 Moldova_North
6.87064044 Croatia_average_academic
7.30249273 Croat_Herzegovina
7.31868158 Moldavian
7.34953060 Hungarian_Transdanubia
7.43976478 Csango_Gymes
7.44476326 Croat_Split
7.51113174 Bosniak_Tuzla
7.67504424 Slovak
7.70490104 Croat_Bosnia
7.78729655 Serbian_Bosnia
7.78937738 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
8.11539894 Austrian
8.24016990 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
8.33054620 Bosniak_new_average
8.40792618 Bosniak_Sarajevo_academic
8.64273684 Czech
9.06840670 East_German

These samples need to be deleted in my opinion: Croatian, South_Croat_Morlach_cluster, South_Croat_Slavic_cluster, Bosniak_Tuzla, Croat_Bosnia (as it's mix of Bosnia and Herzegovina)

These added:

Croatia_average_academic,26.90,32.62,15.48,7.87,12 .97,1.49,0.63,0.22,0.57,0.53,0.48,0.14,0.09
Croat_Herzegovina,25.99,33.19,15.00,8.53,13.27,1.1 1,0.95,0.05,0.72,0.74,0.45,0.00,0.00
Croat_Zagreb,28.82,33.74,14.87,7.43,11.13,1.49,0.4 5,0.26,0.49,0.56,0.40,0.23,0.13
Croat_Bosnia,26.85,32.16,15.72,7.30,13.75,1.74,0.7 3,0.21,0.56,0.28,0.52,0.10,0.09
Croat_new,28.02,32.94,14.82,7.88,11.93,1.49,0.76,0 .32,0.47,0.66,0.43,0.11,0.08

Szekely also need replacing with Szekely_Hungarian I made, as I added to that average two full Szeklers Ion Basecul found, old average has just 2-3 people If I remember well.

Szekely_Hungarian,26.90,32.16,14.49,7.67,11.72,1.7 7,0.94,0.66,1.07,0.90,0.45,0.13,0.17

Bosnian needs to be renamed to Bosniak_Sarajevo_academic also.
Plus this Serb one added

Serbian_Belgrade_academic,24.42,28.12,17.06,9.06,1 7.09,1.48,0.45,0.36,0.73,0.56,0.54,0.1,0.04

HungarianTA should be removed, it's not needed when we have Hungarian_new made of old Hungarian academic samples + samples of TA Hungarians.

Sincerely, I think it is wrong. I don't think that diaspora should be included in any national average. Croatian should represent Croatia only, otherwise only makes a mess. Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina belong to the population average of that country (Bosnian), and each costitutional group (Croat, Bosniak, Serb) should have own average to see whether are closer to other national averages without including them. Also what is the point to split Croats from BiH to those from Bosnia and those from Herzegovina, what's the difference? There's no sense then in having them in different national averages, having Bosnian national average etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MoroLP

Sincerely, I think it is wrong. I don't think that diaspora should be included in any national average. Croatian should represent Croatia only, otherwise only makes a mess. Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina belong to the population average of that country (Bosnian), and each costitutional group (Croat, Bosniak, Serb) should have own average to see whether are closer to other national averages without including them. There's no sense then in having them in different national averages, there's no sense in having Bosnian national average etc.

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It's just a political border, southern Croats are far closer to BiH Croats than to north Croats by origin and DNA.
Bosnian average on Vahaduo here is made of Bosniaks from Sarajevo btw.

Plus most of south and east Croats have lot of ancestry from BiH, it's the same people.

It is not only. All these political and ethnic borders are made up and changed, but we must respect them. Claiming one population group for another population average only due to ethnic identity which as such is controversial and contested for all of three of them, we should be more objective and neutral... also what's the point if we have South Croatian samples? As a Croat I don't expect to have in Croatian average Croats from BiH when they should be in Bosnian average. If the Bosnian average is made of only one costitutional group then it doesn't represent the country BiH nor the Bosnian region. Otherwise all this is a political-ethnic mess. For comparison we need clear national and regional averages, not a mixture of everything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MoroLP

It is not only. All these political and ethnic borders are made up and changed, but claiming one population group to another population average only due to ethnic identity which as such is controversial and contested for all of three of them, we should be objective and neutral. As a Croat I don't expect to have in Croatian average Croats from BiH when they should be in Bosnian average. If the Bosnian average is made of only one costitutional group then it doesn't represent the country BiH nor the Bosnian region.

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That's why there are regional averages. BiH Croats are Croats like any other and should be included in overall Croat average, it's ethnic average not country related one.
Just like Csango and Szekely are included in Hungarian average.

Most people don't have interest in some Bosnian average as it means nothing, it's just a country and not an ethnic group.
All 3 people in BiH are similar anyway.

Serb new average is made of Serbs from many regions/countries also, with western Serbs dominating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Est.1992

This is how Serb_Bosnia scores btw, it's closer to Croats than to other Serb averages

Distance to: Serbian_Bosnia

0.89679290 South_Croat_average
0.95634068 Croat_Bosnia
1.15990840 Croat_Split
1.34892086 Croatia_average_academic
1.83059758 Bosniak_new_average
2.09002093 Croat_Herzegovina
2.31010898 Bosniak_Sarajevo_academic
2.66100310 Szekely_Hungarian
2.97378336 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
3.02765379 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
3.04522464 Serbian_new
3.15672100 Moldova_North
3.39412544 Serb_Croatia
4.17004646 Croat_Zagreb
4.23139900 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
4.73693862 Moldavian
4.76462354 Romanian_Botosani
4.99141137 Bosniak_Tuzla
5.02121873 Csango_Gymes
5.33755445 Croatian_new
5.34777874 HungarianTA
5.56654940 Slovenian
5.69452259 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
5.80700331 Serbian_Belgrade_academic
5.88880187 Romania_Moldavia_North

It's expected to be close to Bosniaks and BiH Croats though, that's natural.

---

I have some results of Serbs from Bosnia.

Western Bosnia Attachment 97481

Western Bosnia Attachment 97482

Western Bosnia Attachment 97483

Western-eastern Bosnia mix Attachment 97484

Northeastern Bosnia Attachment 97486

And few others, but can't found currently.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

I think adding Kajkavian/NW average to this one (Zagreb, Split; BiH) will make it more realistic.
Because all these are southern Croat, Zagreb average is pretty similar to them too and lot of people there have southern roots.

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It would be less Southern Croatian if excluded samples who are not from Croatia. If you wish, make separate Croatian averages, one for Croatia while the other with diaspora. That is only realistic and useful to trace regional origin for ind. samples.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoroLP

It would be less Southern Croatian if excluded samples who are not from Croatia. If you wish, make a separate Croatian averages, one for Croatia while the other with diaspora. That is only realistic and useful to trace regional origin for ind. samples.

---

We need averages from places like Slavonia, Istria, Kvarner, Međimurje too.
So many regions are undersampled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoroLP

It would be less Southern Croatian if excluded samples who are not from Croatia. If you wish, make a separate Croatian averages, one for Croatia while the other with diaspora. That is only realistic and useful to trace regional origin for ind. samples.

---

Do you mean Croatia average should be based on Zagreb, Split and Kajkavian?
Croat_Bosnia on Vahaduo already includes both Bosnia and Herzegovina, so it's good average for BiH Croats put togheder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Est.1992

That's why there are regional averages. BiH Croats are Croats like any other and should be included in overall Croat average, it's ethnic average not country related one.
Just like Csango and Szekely are included in Hungarian average.

Most people don't have interest in some Bosnian average as it means nothing, it's just a country and not an ethnic group.
All 3 people in BiH are similar anyway.

Serb new average is made of Serbs from many regions/countries also, with western Serbs dominating.

---

Ethnicity is only making a confusion if we know how the identities spread and to trace a historical origin we should stick to regions. For a reason Serbs in Croatia and BiH are more northern shifted than Serbs in Serbia and if they dominate the Serbian average then that isn't realistic and reliable for comparisions neither from genetical neither from demographical viewpoint... that's the point about BiH, the three groups are all too similar and should make the Bosnian average which is composed of their averages. Croatian_Croatia and Serbian_Serbia national average are or northern or southern from it, they are different, at least they should be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Do you mean Croatia average should be based on Zagreb, Split and Kajkavian?
Croat_Bosnia on Vahaduo already includes both Bosnia and Herzegovina, so it's good average for BiH Croats put togheder.

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Yes, we should have one Croatian average based on only samples from Croatia and second including the separate BiH Croat average... in the Croatian DNA Project & FTDNA probably can be found those from other regions... I already have three Istrian samples, then should be that Italian shifted guy, then there exist few with Y-DNA results who possibly done auDNA testing etc. What I saw from mine and other results, Istria is a mess, going from pro-Croatian and Serbian to Italian. I don't see what value we get from that region, but oh well, it's part of Western Croatia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoroLP

Yes, we should have one Croatian average based on only samples from Croatia and second including the separate BiH average... in the Croatian DNA Project & FTDNA probably can be found those from other regions.

---

I still see no point as Serbs will never do the same. For example it makes sense for Croatian Serbs to be grouped with other Serbs, not with Croats of Croatia.
Because than we can include all minorities in every country.

Dalmatia and Herzegovina are one unit in climate, geography, ethnography for example.
Bosnian Posavina is same as Slavonian Posavina.

Does it make sense to you to group Croat from for example Dubrovnik with one from Međimurje, but exclude Croat from Herzegovina 10 km from that town?

Average from Zagreb is very similar to one from Herzegovina for example, same Baltic score just ZG has higher North Atlantic.
You are aware how many people from Croatia proper are of recent or less recent BiH origin, right? Probably good part of samples given in Zagreb or Split are not pure Croats from Croatia.

So I see no sense in separate averages as there really is no big difference. Only NW Croats are different for now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoroLP

Yes, we should have one Croatian average based on only samples from Croatia and second including the separate BiH average... in the Croatian DNA Project & FTDNA probably can be found those from other regions... I already have three Istrian samples, then should be that Italian shifted guy, then there exist few with Y-DNA results who possibly done auDNA testing etc. What I saw from mine and other results, Istria is a mess.

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It would be cool to have Istrian samples, please make thread about those you have, we are curious about them! :)
Well, not suprised Istria is historically very mixed. It's visible in linguistics too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

I have some results of Serbs from Bosnia.

Western Bosnia Attachment 97481

Western Bosnia Attachment 97482

Western Bosnia Attachment 97483

Western-eastern Bosnia mix Attachment 97484

Northeastern Bosnia Attachment 97486

And few others, but can't found currently.

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These are real Serbian average, based on a lot more samples than previous Serbian_new and Serb_Croatia.

Krajina_Serb_average,24.71,31.76,16.79,8.22,14.62, 1.55,0.43,0.22,0.81,0.56,0.38,0.03,0.03
Serbia_Serb_average,24.88,30.08,16.50,8.73,16.21,1 .24,0.66,0.28,0.54,0.45,0.31,0.05,0.06

I asked Lukasz to insert it into updated K13 calculator.
He still didn't do it.