They gathered 97 samples from all over the country. There is a gradient.
https://i.ibb.co/VwY39Ct/image.png
https://i.ibb.co/4py2kzt/image.png
Data is not out yet.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...329v1.full.pdf
Printable View
They gathered 97 samples from all over the country. There is a gradient.
https://i.ibb.co/VwY39Ct/image.png
https://i.ibb.co/4py2kzt/image.png
Data is not out yet.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...329v1.full.pdf
I would be curious to know if the paleo-balkanic admix in southern ukrainians came from the slavicized dacians of the northern carpathians; or it’s a medieval Vlach admixture.
Vlach colonists.Quote:
Originally Posted by andre
Idk, sorry for the off-topic but I have many Russian and Ukrainian matches on Myheritage, FTDNA, GEDmatch, etc do you think it's because of their Paleo-Balkan admixture? That's unlikely, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by andre
Source of a massive vlach migration and settlement in western ukraine? I don’t think that 10-20 scattered villages in Podolia and Galicia could influence autosomally all those regions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspirin
I don’t know how works the matches in those dna tests. I have a lot of ukrainians too. I think that’s it’s just noise, they are our “relatives” just because we share a similar ancestry with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris596
Southern Ukrainians? Southern Ukrainians are the most Northern-shifted Ukrainians, along with those in the East.Quote:
Originally Posted by andre
10-20? They are many.Quote:
Originally Posted by andre
These are some of them:
For example mother of this person originate from village Terlo mentioned in the list above.Quote:
Ziemia lwowska i powiat żydaczowski
Perehińsko, Bolechуw Wołoski, Wołoska Wieś, Kozara, Czerniуw, Poświrz, Tuczna, Prybeń, Kurzany, Rozhadуw, Pohrabce, Żukуw, Pluchуw, Kondratуw, Jasionowce, Parapelniki, Podlipce, Jasionowce, Podlipce, Kołtуw, Hołuica, Świrz, Stulsko, Drohowyże, Krasуw, Suchodуł, Podciemne, Siedlisko, Kuhajуw, Sołonka, Zubrza, Honiatycze, Sroki, Leśniowce, Jażуw, Kurniki, Łozina, Krechуw, Żorniska, Jaśniska, Zielуw, Monaster, Mokrotyń, Macoszyn, Semrkуw, Błyszczywody
Ziemia przemyska
Bircza, Jamna Dolna, Jamna Gуrna, Trуjca, Kopysno, Brylińce, Cisowa, Makowa, Nowe Sady, Sarny, Podbуrz, Sokola, Bonуw, Bolanowice, Dziewięczyce, Olszany, Humieniec, Czaple, Buniowice, Hubice, Pacław, Smolnia, Starzawa, Terło, Rudawka, Krościenko, Strzelbice, Bilicz, Lenina, Mszaniec, Łużek Gуrny, Strzyłki, Hołowiecko, Wołcze, Jasienica Zamkowa, Topolnica, Łużek Dolny, Żupanie, Matkуw, Wysocko Wyżne, Komarniki, Wysocko Niżne, Ilniczek, Ilnik, Turka, Isaje, Jawora, Turze, Tuchla, Skole, Synowуdzko Niżne, Synowуdzko Wyżne, Stynawa Wyżna, Tustanowice, Żulin, Borysław, Podhoradec, Kłodnica, Michałowice, Kobło, Wola Derewna, Derewno, Stronna, Łukawica, Manasterzec, Wola Błażowska, Nowoszyce, Czerchawa, Wola, Stupnica, Kotуw, Urosz, Wolsza, Łastуwki, Podbuż, Jasienica Solna, Uniatycze, Dołhe, Uliczno, Solec, Horucko, Letnia, Hubice, Bolechowice, Medenice, Poczajowice, Bilcze, Delawa, Wownia.
Spoiler!
Yes, i was wrong; i wanna mean the westerns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
That' because southern Ukraine (black sea steppe) was repopulated after Turkic tribes were booted out by people from many places including central Russia. Same applies to south Russia. Slavic population in pontic caspian steppe isn't native there by more than few centuries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
Could you tell me more about this list?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspirin
I know, I've traveled a lot in Ukraine. Those in the South speak primarily Russian, compared to Ukrainian in the West. And yes, the region was repopulated with people further North and East after the Crimean Khanate was disestablished.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
I don't have Ukrainian regional averages but on G25 southern Russians (who should be identical to east Ukrainians) have 20-30% Baltic admixture which sugests their origins are from further north.
Dont know about West Ukraine but I know in Southern Ukraine Romanians and some Orthodox Albanians who fought in the wars against Turks were permitted to settle in order to colonize it.Quote:
Originally Posted by andre
Villages from 14-16 centuries founded under Vlach law, mostly from Lviv area.Quote:
Originally Posted by andre
Not just Southern Ukraine. Most of today's Ukraine east of Kiev. That area also contains around 70% of the population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
As per the 1989 census (last Soviet census)
https://i.ibb.co/0FnwF0b/Ukraine-West-vs-East.png
Percentage of self-reported Russians (again, as of 1989)
https://i.ibb.co/Q9bX5wt/image.png
In the rest of Ukraine it was below or slightly above 5%.
Southern Russians must be a mix of Central Russians (Ryazan, Moscow, Kaluga- that kind of places) and settlers from today's Ukraine (mainly along the Dnieper). Krasnodar, Rostov, Stavropol used to be heavily Cossack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
maybe some of it is misinterpreted Scytho-Sarmatian? they have high i2a so i would guess the ressetlers were mostly from the wider Polesye regionQuote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Maybe. But on G25 their pre Slavic matches BA Latvians and IA Estonians (who were mostly Baltic like). I didn't try to model with Iranics because they lack R-Z93 afaik. But maybe they have some input from them, who knows. They score minor Caucasus type admix too and it could be misinterpreted Aryan(scytho-sarmatian had more chg/west asian than NE Euros)Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Russians is general seem to have very imprortant Baltic substratum, and Finnic only in the north.
this makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
but proto-Slavs were something like 80% Baltic BA/IA + 20% some south-west shifts. so i doubt g25 can tell them apart accurately. even the more advanced tools have this problem.
That's true. However there is good reason to believe their Baltic input is real - just check map of Baltic hydronyms in Russia. Typically Baltic R1a Z280 subclades like Z92 are widespread among eastern Slavs.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Also lot of their N1c lineages belong to typically Baltic rather than Finnic clades.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...BC_SVG.svg.png
Baltic cultures 600-200 BC
spread of Baltic hydronyms
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...iver_names.jpg
These people didn't dissapear, they merged with early Slavic settlers but unlike in south Slavs for example it's harder to distinguish east slavs pre-Slavic blood because Balts and Slavs are closest related people and very similar genetically.
Also Bulgarians. And what is interesting before 1941 many German colonies were there too. There was even one Swedish village:) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GammalsvenskbyQuote:
Originally Posted by opticalillusion
Are these samples publicly available? It seems they over-sampled South-West parts of Ukraine (including Zakarpattia) once again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
How about making Ukrainian national average? In my opinion, for example in Global25 Western Ukrainians are over-represented:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post6862270
Currently existing GEDmatch averages for Ukraine, also skew in favour of Western Ukrainians.
This is a collection of 28 Belarusians from Minsk & 28 Ukrainians from Kiev, academic samples, but they are not in Global25 yet:
Eurogenes K15:
Eurogenes K15:Code:Belarusian_Minsk_1,19.89,16.97,33.82,20.59,4.6,0.25,0,1.02,0.94,1.01,0,0,0.1,0.8,0
Belarusian_Minsk_2,21.05,21.19,35.44,16.66,0.9,2.48,0,0,1.03,0,0,0.71,0.41,0,0.12
Belarusian_Minsk_3,15.55,19.55,30.68,24.26,2.44,0.83,4.66,0.96,0.51,0,0.51,0,0.03,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_4,17.11,15.11,36.94,19.34,3.23,3.07,3.05,0.65,0,0.59,0.29,0,0.64,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_5,18.59,15.15,30.84,25.33,5.44,1.19,0,1.15,1.07,0,0.17,0.5,0.22,0.35,0
Belarusian_Minsk_6,18.77,15.72,36.06,20.85,3.26,1.19,1.29,0.42,2.06,0,0,0,0,0.23,0.15
Belarusian_Minsk_7,19.12,16.33,34.09,20.44,3.6,0.48,3.98,0,0.54,0,0,1.07,0.35,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_8,23.8,12.67,31.7,20.02,3.18,3.63,0,1.78,2.77,0,0,0.1,0.35,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_9,16.81,17.08,34.9,17.53,4.49,4.47,1.91,0,0.79,0,1.92,0,0,0,0.12
Belarusian_Minsk_11,18.33,17.68,28.81,23.03,4.52,4.59,0.72,0,1.24,0,0,1.08,0,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_12,17.49,20.08,31.41,23.97,1.64,4.71,0,0,0.03,0.1,0,0,0.25,0.33,0
Belarusian_Minsk_13,20.84,13.53,33.03,18.75,7.33,2.44,2.66,0,0.2,0,0.04,0.29,0,0.58,0.31
Belarusian_Minsk_14,17.17,18.48,29.73,23.18,6.52,2.59,1.8,0,0.53,0,0,0,0,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_15,16.15,16.71,34.7,23.78,5.6,0.39,0,0,2.57,0,0,0.09,0,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_16,21.73,16.14,29.35,20.79,3.93,6.25,0.27,0,0,0,0,0.68,0.68,0,0.17
Belarusian_Minsk_17,18.24,15.27,35.73,21.57,3.34,4.17,0,0,0.02,0,0,0.21,1.43,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_18,17.32,16.06,35.75,22.14,4.16,1.64,0.63,0,1.78,0,0,0.33,0,0.19,0
Belarusian_Minsk_19,13.73,15.09,31.99,25,6.26,5.19,1.22,0,0,0,0,0.12,0.36,1.03,0
Belarusian_Minsk_20,19.65,13.51,32.25,22.27,4.23,6.43,0,0.04,1.34,0,0,0.28,0,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_21,23.78,11.11,32.2,21.17,6.96,2.72,0,0,0,0,0,0.99,1.07,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_22,14.16,20.89,34.51,22.76,3.16,1.46,0,0,0.73,0.17,0,1.7,0,0,0.46
Belarusian_Minsk_23,19.14,16.65,32.98,19.01,2.44,4.16,2.57,0,0,0,1.52,0,0.68,0,0.85
Belarusian_Minsk_25,21.53,18.87,30.56,22.42,2.71,2.62,0,0,0,0,0,0.83,0.47,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_26,23.56,10.55,31.89,20.32,8.18,0.72,3.55,0,0,0.06,0.09,0.45,0,0,0.63
Belarusian_Minsk_27,19.09,11.91,29.15,24.64,8.4,3.2,0,1.71,0.65,0,0.96,0.29,0,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_28,18.92,15.38,29.64,20.23,8.79,2.36,1.91,0,0,0,1.92,0,0.13,0,0.72
Belarusian_Minsk_Avg(n=26),18.90,16.06,32.62,21.54,4.59,2.82,1.16,0.30,0.72,0.07,0.29,0.37,0.28,0.14,0.14
Belarusian_Minsk_10_outlier,11.56,17.8,24.97,18.86,8.95,6.28,8.88,0.4,0.86,1.04,0.1,0,0,0,0.3
Belarusian_Minsk_24_outlier,11.45,19.41,20.89,17.27,7.03,12.22,5.73,1.49,1.79,0.27,1.47,0.27,0,0.71,0
See how they compare to existing K15 averages, as you can see Kiev Ukrainians appear rather eastern-shifted here:Code:Ukrainian_Kiev_1,20.5,12.08,30.33,17.74,7.66,4.18,6.19,0.7,0,0,0,0,0.41,0,0.22
Ukrainian_Kiev_2,16.04,17.2,27.56,18.33,7.01,4.04,4.08,4.51,0,0.93,0,0.31,0,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_3,21.59,9.87,29.83,22.88,6.63,7.1,0.19,0,0.34,0.43,0.64,0,0.5,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_4,19.29,17.35,30.54,20.87,1.11,7.08,0.21,0.11,0,0,1.79,1.04,0,0.61,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_5,15.8,17.65,28.02,21.53,7.06,3.76,2.49,2.37,0,0,0,0,0,0.48,0.86
Ukrainian_Kiev_6,18.49,18.35,31.42,18.1,4.52,5.4,0,0.11,2.06,0,0,0.77,0.19,0,0.59
Ukrainian_Kiev_7,17.1,14.93,28.21,23.51,5.8,2.54,2.85,0,1.15,0,1.88,1.16,0.87,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_8,21.72,11.86,31.08,18.77,5.75,5.5,0.72,2.61,0.4,0.4,1.19,0,0,0.01,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_9,16.09,18.5,34.59,18.16,3.18,5.55,2.82,0.14,0,0,0,0,0.98,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_10,21.95,13.11,31.69,17.74,5.95,5.81,0,0,0.95,0,0,0.35,1.69,0,0.76
Ukrainian_Kiev_11,21.73,16.65,25.36,17.02,6.1,3.59,4.49,0,0.69,0,2.71,0.86,0.36,0,0.45
Ukrainian_Kiev_12,18.45,19,26.47,17.14,6.48,5.27,2.49,1.97,0.71,0,1.14,0.18,0.67,0,0.03
Ukrainian_Kiev_13,18.63,10.74,31.92,20.29,7.7,3.99,3.65,1.54,0,0,0,1.37,0.16,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_15,13.97,18.39,32.91,22.3,4.9,4.48,0,0.72,0.33,0,0,1.3,0,0,0.69
Ukrainian_Kiev_16,15.52,19.83,28.56,18.59,5.89,3.49,5.89,0,0,1.52,0,0,0,0,0.72
Ukrainian_Kiev_18,16.66,17.43,32.97,20.86,5.19,2.17,3.32,0,0,0,0.39,0,0.38,0,0.64
Ukrainian_Kiev_21,18.99,13.85,30.98,17.99,6.11,4,4.38,1.7,1.04,0.55,0.41,0,0,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_22,19.38,15.85,29.28,20.33,5.74,4.11,3.98,0.8,0,0,0,0.36,0,0.18,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_24,13.44,17.5,31.09,20.87,3.32,7.28,4.36,0,1.33,0,0.81,0,0.01,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_25,20.63,13.36,31.24,21.24,4.77,4.03,1.11,1.27,1.31,0,0,0.98,0,0,0.05
Ukrainian_Kiev_26,18.44,13.97,29.45,21.91,7.34,6.07,1.18,1.19,0,0.45,0,0,0,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_27,22.93,15.67,27.95,18.78,6.58,5.81,0.9,0,0.39,0,0,0.07,0.52,0,0.4
Ukrainian_Kiev_28,14.63,16.93,31.66,18.35,8.06,4.1,2.35,1.57,0,0,0,1.36,0,0.32,0.69
Ukrainian_Kiev_Avg(n=23),18.35,15.66,30.14,19.71,5.78,4.75,2.51,0.93,0.47,0.19,0.48,0.44,0.29,0.07,0.27
Ukrainian_Kiev_14_outlier,21.88,15.05,23.92,15.29,12.15,3.78,3.59,1.27,1.44,0,0.53,0.04,1.06,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_17_outlier,25.06,15.19,27.81,16.62,8.44,2.18,0,0.84,1.74,0,0.76,0.35,1,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_23_outlier,19.59,14.06,25.81,16.66,7.66,7.56,6.65,0.18,1.02,0,0,0,0.22,0.58,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_19_mixed,14.87,6.79,22.89,28.49,5.18,6.34,0,0.64,0.16,0.51,11.87,1.17,0,0,1.08
Ukrainian_Kiev_20_mixed,20.05,11.48,22.43,18.12,3.49,16.6,3.35,0.4,1.82,0,1.13,0,0,0.48,0.63
https://i.imgur.com/nJjdc8k.png
https://i.imgur.com/GB28J8E.png
From Kiev average I removed 2 mixed with Tatars/Kavkaz and 3 too western/southern shifted compared to the rest.
Also here is for example a Western Ukrainian with GEDCOM pedigree with both parents from Volhynia, I trust this result more than academic samples from Volhynia (from Estonian scientists) which look like they are mixed with Volhynian Poles/Czechs/Germans:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post6862276
Population
North_Sea 18.69 Pct
Atlantic 15.46 Pct
Baltic 32.29 Pct
Eastern_Euro 19.61 Pct
West_Med 5.95 Pct
West_Asian 4.70 Pct
East_Med 0.28 Pct
Red_Sea 0.27 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.46 Pct
Amerindian 0.76 Pct
Oceanian 0.52 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
^^^
This Volhynian Ukrainian from GEDmatch is actually close to academic Polish samples from Lublin Voivodeship:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lublin_Voivodeship
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 32.29
2 Eastern_Euro 19.61
3 North_Sea 18.69
4 Atlantic 15.46
5 West_Med 5.95
6 West_Asian 4.7
7 Siberian 1.46
8 Amerindian 0.76
9 Oceanian 0.52
10 East_Med 0.28
11 Red_Sea 0.27
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Russian_Smolensk 4.18
2 Belorussian 4.42
3 Estonian_Polish 4.55
4 Southwest_Russian 4.58
5 Ukrainian_Belgorod 4.83
6 Polish 5.92
7 Lithuanian 5.96
8 South_Polish 6.29
9 Ukrainian 6.34
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.82
11 Estonian 8.58
12 Kargopol_Russian 10.11
13 Erzya 11.44
14 Croatian 11.58
15 Moldavian 13.54
16 East_Finnish 13.67
17 Finnish 14.34
18 Hungarian 14.82
19 Southwest_Finnish 15.46
20 Austrian 16.51
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.9% Lithuanian + 28.1% Moldavian @ 2.99
2 68.7% Lithuanian + 31.3% Croatian @ 3.14
3 54.7% Lithuanian + 45.3% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.39
4 52% Lithuanian + 48% South_Polish @ 3.43
5 52.3% Lithuanian + 47.7% Ukrainian @ 3.46
6 68.1% Russian_Smolensk + 31.9% Lithuanian @ 3.52
7 81.9% Lithuanian + 18.1% Romanian @ 3.54
8 67.2% Estonian_Polish + 32.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.56
9 83.2% Lithuanian + 16.8% Bulgarian @ 3.61
10 89.3% Lithuanian + 10.7% Nogay @ 3.63
11 69.7% Belorussian + 30.3% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.64
12 80.9% Lithuanian + 19.1% Serbian @ 3.67
13 60.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 39.8% Lithuanian @ 3.72
14 68.4% Belorussian + 31.6% Ukrainian @ 3.73
15 91.8% Lithuanian + 8.2% Sardinian @ 3.73
16 87.7% Lithuanian + 12.3% North_Italian @ 3.74
17 66.7% Estonian_Polish + 33.3% Ukrainian @ 3.78
18 88.4% Lithuanian + 11.6% Tuscan @ 3.8
19 91.1% Lithuanian + 8.9% Balkar @ 3.8
20 94.8% Belorussian + 5.2% Nogay @ 3.84
They are supposed to be, but I haven't seen the data released yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
You asked Davidski? I think at least those Ukrs are added http://g25vahaduo.genetics.ovh/G25modern-scaled.htm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
Probably without few outliers
Code:Ukrainian:Ukrainian1,0.125205,0.13405,0.062979,0.052649,0.040623,0.015618,0.009165,0.007846,-0.003477,-0.016401,0.000325,-0.007943,0.016055,0.017891,-0.01045,0.003713,0.011865,0.00152,0.000377,-0.003001,-0.004991,-0.006183,0.004807,0.000843,-0.000599
Ukrainian:Ukrainian10,0.126344,0.118817,0.063733,0.067184,0.036007,0.017012,0.00611,0.01223,-0.010226,-0.020046,-0.000812,-0.005995,0.012339,0.019818,-0.008822,-0.003978,0.005346,-0.0019,-0.000377,0.005878,-0.009483,0.000618,0.006532,0.000241,0.009221
Ukrainian:Ukrainian11,0.12862,0.122879,0.061471,0.052649,0.037545,0.018128,0.00752,0.014076,0.003272,-0.01713,0.001299,-0.004946,0.010555,0.026148,-0.002579,-0.003315,-0.006519,-0.003801,0.001006,-0.002876,-0.006239,-0.004699,0.001602,-0.00241,-0.001437
Ukrainian:Ukrainian12,0.130897,0.126941,0.071653,0.056848,0.032314,0.013666,0.008695,0.006,0.001636,-0.020228,-0.001786,-0.01109,0.015461,0.0139,-0.019679,0.012066,0.025034,-0.004434,-0.000503,0.004877,-0.004742,-0.001237,0.008011,-0.007953,0.001197
Ukrainian:Ukrainian13,0.125205,0.127957,0.071653,0.062662,0.040623,0.027889,0.00658,0.004615,-0.007567,-0.024784,0.000325,-0.006294,0.016353,0.033442,-0.012079,-0.015115,-0.013299,-0.004434,0.006913,-0.001251,-0.009109,-0.00272,0.005423,-0.011447,-0.001916
Ukrainian:Ukrainian14,0.125205,0.121864,0.06675,0.044897,0.042469,0.024542,0.00376,0.012692,-0.003068,-0.021139,-0.00682,-0.005845,0.012636,0.024084,-0.012758,-0.008353,-0.009127,0.000253,0.001383,-0.002626,-0.013351,-0.00371,0.00493,-0.005784,-0.002874
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U
Southern Ukraine isn't homogenous, south-west differs from the south and the south is very diverse in itself. But there was both Vlach migration, native paleo-Balkanic, and Scythian (which was somewhat a mixture of paleo-Balkanic, Caucaus, North-Eastern, and East Eurasian genetic contribution).Quote:
Originally Posted by andre
No, they're not. Southern Ukraine is extremely diverse, but many of the southern areas were also founded by Cossacks or were already Cossacks who became state peasants. After the destruction of the Zaporizhian Sich many Cossacks eventually founded cities in the south. These people had a large southern genetic input, and also Turkic + Caucasus. Other regions were founded by migrants from Northern/Central Ukraine and Russia, not just ethnic Russians but people like Mordovins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
Again many southern regions were repopulated by Zaporizhian Cossacks who became Danuban Cossacks. The Zaporizhian Cossacks occupied the Steppes already and had a Turkic element in them. They were very diverse themselves. This is a myth repeated, mostly by Russians, and parroted by others on here. So yes many are native there because they originated as Steppe people (Iranic, Turkic etc.) who absorbed Ruthenian peasants..Quote:
Originally Posted by Jana
Speaking a language has nothing to do with ethnicity, many areas of the south with +90% ethnic Ukrainians still often speak Russian. But Russian migration did northenize the population in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
Again, none of these people would be identical to anyone. Because both the East of Ukraine and Southern Russia have mixed origins. From Cossacks, from non-Cossack Ukrainian and Russian migrants and so on. Even phenotypically all you have to do is look at say Kuban Cossacks and compare them to southern Russians with Central Russian origin and see that they are two completely different groups of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jana
They had very little influence on the population, the south's southern influence is from Scythian/Iranic and some Balkan input via Cossacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by opticalillusion
The only areas of Lviv that had Vlach settlement were around the Boyko homeland, so that isn't correct. Most of the Vlach settlement was further south/east than that in Galicia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspirin
Pretty much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Ukrainian settlers to southern Russia came from southern/eastern Ukraine, Zaporizhian Sich but also waves of migrants from Northern Ukraine latter on.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Germans had no influence on us, they were mostly in their segregated villages or landowners using Ukrainian peasant labour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
I agree the results are often skewed and completely neglect the south and east. But also, how do you know those people you removed were not entirely ethnic Ukrainian? Both Turkic and Caucasus admixture is present in Ukrainians, this is the issue with Ukrainians because of their position in the steppes and population migration from the steppes to the right bank and back, and also various resettlements and history of foreign settlers, Ukrainian genome is extremely diverse and people from the same region can vary quite different, even in admixture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski