Eritreans and many Ethiopians are genetically closer to MENAs and West Asians than to most Negroids?

This seems to be the case. Although certain Sub Saharan groups such as Kikuyu, Bulala, Ethiopian_Mursi and Hadza who become closer to certain Ethiopians than some MENAs, but these Negroids also have Cushitic admixture which is like half Caucasoid which pulls them closer compared to most SSAs.

Note- Mada, Laka are West-Central Africans while Makhuwa and Nyaneka are Bantus from Southern Tanzania/Mozambique and Angola. Kikuyus are Bantus mixed with Cushitic while Bulala, Mursi are Nilo-Saharans with some Cushitic or MENA-like admixture, while Hadza are isolated hunter gatherers from Tanzania. Luhyas, Luos are Bantus and Nilotes from Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania. Mbuti are Pygmies while Khomani are Southern African Bushmen.

Do you find this surprising?

Distance to: Eritrean

Spoiler!

0.25721262 BedouinA
0.26194987 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.26552797 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.27155714 Yemenite_Amran
0.27174198 Syrian_East
0.27245424 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.27409577 BedouinB
0.27529430 Palestinian
0.27641663 Iraqi_Arab
0.27770647 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.28022540 Yemenite_Jew
0.28134270 Saudi
0.28470118 Yemenite_Mahra
0.29089205 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.31387519 Kikuyu
0.31658713 Samaritan
0.33449926 Cypriot
0.33715931 Hadza
0.34090173 Iranian_Persian
0.34092614 Assyrian
0.34717354 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.34758437 Armenian
0.34942540 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.36208616 Georgian_Laz
0.36330190 Kabardin
0.36656701 Abazin
0.36664418 Balkar
0.36939680 Abkhasian
0.36984113 Adygei
0.37094355 Georgian_Imer
0.37278800 Chechen
0.37553833 Tabasaran
0.37970304 Kaitag
0.39563302 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.40001892 Sudanese
0.40045605 Dinka
0.42463051 Mada
0.43608132 Luo
0.43654247 Luhya_Kenya
0.44137479 Bantu_Kenya
0.45411095 Gambian
0.45568627 Laka
0.45829851 Mwani
0.45938837 Kaba
0.46561518 Kadar
0.46715585 Bantu_S.W.
0.47173401 Yao
0.47190422 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.47880258 Bantu_S.E.
0.48527348 Yoruba
0.62291268 Khomani_San
0.73169371 Mbuti

Distance to: Ethiopian_Tigray

Spoiler!

0.26689143 BedouinA
0.27239581 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.27609269 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.28112112 Syrian_East
0.28185497 Yemenite_Amran
0.28312376 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.28458070 BedouinB
0.28506023 Palestinian
0.28556583 Iraqi_Arab
0.28813575 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.29077791 Yemenite_Jew
0.29177717 Saudi
0.29538504 Yemenite_Mahra
0.30029704 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.30307536 Kikuyu
0.32650763 Hadza
0.32667798 Samaritan
0.33648744 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.33864859 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.34414712 Cypriot
0.34941136 Iranian_Persian
0.35015846 Assyrian
0.35668391 Armenian
0.37074792 Georgian_Laz
0.37162840 Kabardin
0.37476088 Abazin
0.37481958 Balkar
0.37760009 Abkhasian
0.37812238 Adygei
0.37917108 Georgian_Imer
0.38088857 Chechen
0.38356505 Tabasaran
0.38488753 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.38779194 Kaitag
0.38925309 Sudanese
0.38968471 Dinka
0.41369586 Mada
0.42571604 Luo
0.42641688 Luhya_Kenya
0.43119539 Bantu_Kenya
0.44332482 Gambian
0.44494584 Laka
0.44785682 Mwani
0.44859474 Kaba
0.45653333 Bantu_S.W.
0.46118894 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.46133517 Yao
0.46700033 Kadar
0.46821674 Bantu_S.E.
0.47469150 Yoruba
0.61418556 Khomani_San
0.72571874 Mbuti

Distance to: Ethiopian_Afar

Spoiler!

0.27546802 BedouinA
0.28158326 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.28520023 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.28894733 Syrian_East
0.29073635 Yemenite_Amran
0.29230855 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.29323897 Iraqi_Arab
0.29341050 Palestinian
0.29386742 BedouinB
0.29649050 Kikuyu
0.29715898 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.29982578 Yemenite_Jew
0.30089893 Saudi
0.30449495 Yemenite_Mahra
0.30830754 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.31958810 Hadza
0.32819271 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.33028179 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.33543945 Samaritan
0.35233577 Cypriot
0.35585475 Iranian_Persian
0.35812078 Assyrian
0.36467048 Armenian
0.37675864 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.37765547 Kabardin
0.37854651 Georgian_Laz
0.38084856 Abazin
0.38089479 Balkar
0.38121019 Sudanese
0.38128031 Dinka
0.38465094 Adygei
0.38472953 Abkhasian
0.38670943 Georgian_Imer
0.38687075 Chechen
0.38927300 Tabasaran
0.39325094 Kaitag
0.40689367 Mada
0.41944799 Luo
0.42039152 Luhya_Kenya
0.42525611 Bantu_Kenya
0.43746162 Gambian
0.43868226 Laka
0.44219400 Mwani
0.44235644 Kaba
0.45103623 Bantu_S.W.
0.45546309 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.45576067 Yao
0.46298190 Bantu_S.E.
0.46514292 Kadar
0.46885795 Yoruba
0.61147523 Khomani_San
0.72139134 Mbuti

Distance to: Ethiopian_Amhara

Spoiler!

0.27846294 BedouinA
0.28402451 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.28770069 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.29228454 Syrian_East
0.29295238 Kikuyu
0.29347869 Yemenite_Amran
0.29470448 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.29629494 BedouinB
0.29651083 Palestinian
0.29657080 Iraqi_Arab
0.29972376 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.30230612 Yemenite_Jew
0.30341402 Saudi
0.30699647 Yemenite_Mahra
0.31143098 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.31549855 Hadza
0.32506154 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.32727732 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.33797064 Samaritan
0.35539958 Cypriot
0.35967358 Iranian_Persian
0.36107792 Assyrian
0.36752160 Armenian
0.37384886 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.37831457 Sudanese
0.37859838 Dinka
0.38130268 Georgian_Laz
0.38168096 Kabardin
0.38485013 Abazin
0.38485591 Balkar
0.38776789 Abkhasian
0.38824552 Adygei
0.38930602 Georgian_Imer
0.39080484 Chechen
0.39336738 Tabasaran
0.39738652 Kaitag
0.40422058 Mada
0.41604878 Luo
0.41701107 Luhya_Kenya
0.42181855 Bantu_Kenya
0.43473075 Gambian
0.43587245 Laka
0.43874708 Mwani
0.43958007 Kaba
0.44741916 Bantu_S.W.
0.45224899 Yao
0.45254230 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.45874376 Bantu_S.E.
0.46632943 Yoruba
0.47148699 Kadar
0.60536455 Khomani_San
0.71846690 Mbuti

Distance to: Ethiopian_Agaw

Spoiler!

0.27851705 BedouinA
0.28399479 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.28783923 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.29262622 Syrian_East
0.29350399 Yemenite_Amran
0.29465379 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.29505783 Kikuyu
0.29628757 BedouinB
0.29664990 Palestinian
0.29714999 Iraqi_Arab
0.29962392 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.30228813 Yemenite_Jew
0.30340513 Saudi
0.30693428 Yemenite_Mahra
0.31157090 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.31630482 Hadza
0.32617569 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.32840057 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.33794176 Samaritan
0.35513662 Cypriot
0.36037762 Iranian_Persian
0.36123806 Assyrian
0.36754769 Armenian
0.37525652 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.37981403 Sudanese
0.38025303 Dinka
0.38110316 Georgian_Laz
0.38163658 Kabardin
0.38474467 Balkar
0.38479016 Abazin
0.38762942 Abkhasian
0.38821010 Adygei
0.38923032 Georgian_Imer
0.39090231 Chechen
0.39365194 Tabasaran
0.39773515 Kaitag
0.40652661 Mada
0.41824942 Luo
0.41931234 Luhya_Kenya
0.42414787 Bantu_Kenya
0.43733338 Gambian
0.43831928 Laka
0.44123248 Mwani
0.44197370 Kaba
0.44976205 Bantu_S.W.
0.45468298 Yao
0.45502865 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.46085145 Bantu_S.E.
0.46904585 Yoruba
0.47437201 Kadar
0.60553873 Khomani_San
0.71662702 Mbuti

Distance to: Ethiopian_Jew

Spoiler!

0.28738891 BedouinA
0.28771212 Kikuyu
0.29249671 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.29601844 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.30106578 Syrian_East
0.30204680 Yemenite_Amran
0.30304414 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.30454668 BedouinB
0.30531014 Palestinian
0.30540661 Iraqi_Arab
0.30801460 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.30969597 Hadza
0.31067167 Yemenite_Jew
0.31161708 Saudi
0.31507842 Yemenite_Mahra
0.31795137 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.32022031 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.32035690 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.34689866 Samaritan
0.36419020 Cypriot
0.36705962 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.36810560 Iranian_Persian
0.36981722 Assyrian
0.37169892 Sudanese
0.37185908 Dinka
0.37626659 Armenian
0.38967408 Kabardin
0.38982362 Georgian_Laz
0.39274871 Abazin
0.39275061 Balkar
0.39598185 Abkhasian
0.39629070 Adygei
0.39776830 Georgian_Imer
0.39874847 Chechen
0.39941839 Mada
0.40125822 Tabasaran
0.40520022 Kaitag
0.41127497 Luo
0.41238574 Luhya_Kenya
0.41718032 Bantu_Kenya
0.43115686 Gambian
0.43180161 Laka
0.43484745 Mwani
0.43534431 Kaba
0.44355654 Bantu_S.W.
0.44829025 Yao
0.44888632 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.45477921 Bantu_S.E.
0.46285870 Yoruba
0.47621351 Kadar
0.60215397 Khomani_San
0.71502965 Mbuti

Horners are basically 50/50 West Eurasian and Sub-Saharan. They pull closer to North Africans and Near Easterners because 1) the two share the same West Eurasian components and 2) Arab Muslims from MENA, too, have SSA admixture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Östsvensk

Horners are basically 50/50 West Eurasian and Sub-Saharan. They pull closer to North Africans and Near Easterners because 1) the two share the same West Eurasian components and 2) Arab Muslims from MENA, too, have SSA admixture.

---

I think its mainly Ethiopians who are 50/50 while Somalians are more like 60% SSA and 40% West Eurasian. While Eritreans seem to be closer to 60% West Eurasian and 40% SSA. There was even one Eritrean sample in G25 who was closer to 65% West Eurasian.

What's interesting is that according to the above runs, Eritreans and many Ethiopian groups are also closer to several Caucasians/West Asians such as Armenians, Georgians and even Chechens and even some peripheral Southern Euros such as Maltese and Calabrians than to most Negroids especially West-Central Africans/Bantus.

Could this be because Horn Africans also shared some West Eurasian components with certain Caucasians and some peripheral South Euros that makes them shift closer?

They are basically Old World mulattoes, more or less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joqool

This seems to be the case. Although certain Sub Saharan groups such as Kikuyu, Bulala, Ethiopian_Mursi and Hadza who become closer to certain Ethiopians than some MENAs, but these Negroids also have Cushitic admixture which is like half Caucasoid which pulls them closer compared to most SSAs.

Note- Mada, Laka are West-Central Africans while Makhuwa and Nyaneka are Bantus from Southern Tanzania/Mozambique and Angola. Kikuyus are Bantus mixed with Cushitic while Bulala, Mursi are Nilo-Saharans with some Cushitic or MENA-like admixture, while Hadza are isolated hunter gatherers from Tanzania. Luhyas, Luos are Bantus and Nilotes from Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania. Mbuti are Pygmies while Khomani are Southern African Bushmen.

Do you find this surprising?

---

No way Ethiopians are actually closer to Hadza than to MENAs. Maybe G25 originally didn't have Hadza samples, but the Hadza samples were later projected on a PCA that wasn't able to sufficiently differentiate Hadza from other populations. Or maybe Hadza would only have been differentiated by some PC after PC25. Because G25 has many PCs where Bambutids or Capoids have the most extreme values, but it doesn't have any PC where Hadza are even close to having the most extreme value:

https://i.ibb.co/XkGD8vd/a.png

Based on f2 distances between samples in the 1240K+HO dataset, Hadza are even further from Caucasoids than Biaka pygmies or ‡Khomani are:

https://i.ibb.co/D1yWDX2/a.png

From the image above, you can also see that Somalis are closer to Yoruba than to any Eurasian population apart from BedouinA (which is from Israel so it's not geographically North African).

Luo are the only Nilotic people included in the run above. Afars have lower SSA ancestry than many other Horners, so they are further from Luo than from any Eurasian population included here. But Somalis have more SSA ancestry, so they are closer to Luo than to any Eurasian population.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Komintasavalta

No way Ethiopians are actually closer to Hadza than to MENAs. Maybe G25 originally didn't have Hadza samples, but the Hadza samples were later projected on a PCA that wasn't able to sufficiently differentiate Hadza from other populations. Or maybe Hadza would only have been differentiated by some PC after PC25. Because G25 has many PCs where Bambutids or Capoids have the most extreme values, but it doesn't have any PC where Hadza are even close to having the most extreme value:

https://i.ibb.co/XkGD8vd/a.png

Based on f2 distances between samples in the 1240K+HO dataset, Hadza are even further from Caucasoids than Biaka pygmies or ‡Khomani are:

https://i.ibb.co/D1yWDX2/a.png

From the image above, you can also see that Somalis are closer to Yoruba than to any Eurasian population apart from BedouinA (which is from Israel so it's not geographically North African).

Luo are the only Nilotic people included in the run above. Afars have lower SSA ancestry than many other Horners, so they are further from Luo than from any Eurasian population included here. But Somalis have more SSA ancestry, so they are closer to Luo than to any Eurasian population.

---

Actually there are Hadza samples in G25:

Code:

---

Hadza,-0.5003664,0.0530108,-0.0032432,-0.0024548,0.0010464,-0.0057452,0.0615258,-0.0505364,0.0706426,-0.0641472,-0.009581,-3e-05,-0.0248562,-0.0036058,0.0133004,-0.0189072,0.0198706,0.031647,0.0015588,-0.0074286,-0.005141,0.005886,-0.0020954,-0.0027474,0.0041672

---

Could it be that the Hadza in 1240K+HO set are drifted? It's peculiar because in G25, Hadza seem to show minor Eurasian (Caucasoid) admixture:

Target: Hadza
Distance: 1.4970% / 0.01497014
65.6 ETH_4500BP
18.6 CMR_Shum_Laka_3000BP
8.8 Dinka
2.8 Levant_Natufian
2.4 TUR_Barcin_N
1.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.6 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP

This is the most SSA and least Western admixed Hadza sample:

Target: Hadza:Bar08
Distance: 2.1142% / 0.02114210
67.2 ETH_4500BP
14.0 CMR_Shum_Laka_3000BP
8.8 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP
4.4 Dinka
2.6 TUR_Barcin_N
2.2 Levant_Natufian
0.4 Han
0.4 Jarawa

You should also add Dinka or Sudanese to the run. They are predominantly Nilotic with some West-Central African ancestry but no West Eurasian. Meanwhile Luo are so heavily mixed with Bantus that they are now mostly West-Central African with significant Nilotic admixture.

I wonder if the Nubians or Bejas who are Northern Cushites from Sudan will even be more Caucasoid than Eritreans.

Eritreans in G25 seem to be around 60-61% Caucasoid and 39-40% SSA.

Target: Eritrean
Distance: 4.2192% / 0.04219210
52.6 Levant_Natufian
39.0 Dinka
5.6 Levant_PPNB
1.8 GEO_CHG
1.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

And even one Eritrean sample in G25 was around 65% Caucasoid and 35% SSA.

Target: Eritrean:Eritrean_2
Distance: 4.3819% / 0.04381933
53.2 Levant_Natufian
34.6 Dinka
7.6 Levant_PPNB
4.2 GEO_CHG
0.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

The fits are bad, but I think it is because that Horners have some genetic drift. I need to add KEN_Pastoral_N (which contains both SSA and West Eurasian) into the run to improve the fits.

Target: Eritrean
Distance: 1.9172% / 0.01917154
63.2 KEN_Pastoral_N
18.6 Levant_Natufian
9.6 Levant_PPNB
4.6 Dinka
4.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N


Target: Eritrean:Eritrean_2
Distance: 2.6235% / 0.02623544
58.0 KEN_Pastoral_N
21.0 Levant_Natufian
12.4 Levant_PPNB
4.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.0 Dinka
1.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.2 GEO_CHG

It makes sense that Somalians are closer to SSAs than to Eurasians due to higher African blood than Eritreans and Ethiopians.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joqool

I think its mainly Ethiopians who are 50/50 while Somalians are more like 60% SSA and 40% West Eurasian. While Eritreans seem to be closer to 60% West Eurasian and 40% SSA. There was even one Eritrean sample in G25 who was closer to 65% West Eurasian.

---

In the G25 model below, Somalis and Oromo and Wolayta are all modeled as between 50 and 60 percent Dinka. They got around 5 percentage points lower SSA ancestry when I used Bantu_Kenya instead of Dinka as the SSA source.

https://i.ibb.co/LkqmSsZ/a.png

In a global ADMIXTURE run with 3 components, Somalis got 55% of the SSA component. Only Capoid-Bambutids and South African Bantu mixed with Khoisan got 100% of the SSA component, but if I wouldn't have included them in the run, it would have slightly increased the amount of SSA ancestry in mainstream SSAs. Hadza got 4% of the Mongoloid component, which maybe means that they have undifferentiated Eurasian ancestry, or that they have ancestry related to the East African branch that was ancestral to Eurasians, or that they share a part of their non-Capoid-non-Bambutid ancestry with Mongoloids. Even some Bantu got 1% of the Mongoloid component in this run, which might be because of the latter reason. This shows all populations from the run with 10% or more of the SSA component:

100 0 0 Mbuti
100 0 0 Khomani_San
100 0 0 Ju_hoan_North
100 0 0 Biaka
100 0 0 BantuSA
99 1 1 Namibia_Bantu_Herero
99 1 1 Malawi_Chewa
99 0 1 Esan
99 0 0 YRI
99 0 0 MSL
99 0 0 ESN
98 1 1 Yoruba
98 1 1 Mende
98 1 1 Malawi_Yao
98 1 1 Malawi_Tumbuka
98 1 1 Malawi_Ngoni
98 0 2 BantuSA_Ovambo
97 2 0 GWD
96 3 1 Mandenka
95 5 1 Luo
95 4 1 BantuKenya
94 5 1 LWK
93 6 1 Luhya
92 8 0 Gambian
91 9 0 Khomani
90 8 2 Dinka
90 10 0 ACB
84 12 4 Hadza1
80 19 1 Kikuyu
78 21 1 ASW
78 20 1 AA
72 27 2 Masai
66 32 2 Datog
55 44 1 Somali
45 55 1 Jew_Ethiopian
45 54 1 Afar
41 59 0 Eritrea
29 68 3 Yemeni_Desert2
24 76 0 Saharawi
24 76 0 Moroccan
23 77 0 Mozabite
23 77 0 Burbur
22 78 0 Algerian
21 79 0 Tunisian
21 78 1 Yemeni_Highlands_Raymah
19 81 0 Shaigi
18 81 0 Libyan
17 83 0 Ain_Touta
17 81 2 Yemeni
17 19 64 Papuan
14 86 0 Egyptian
14 74 12 PUR
13 23 64 Australian
11 34 56 PEL_SomeAfrican
10 90 0 BedouinA
10 89 0 Yemeni_Highlands
10 18 71 Nasioi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joqool

Could it be that the Hadza in 1240K+HO set are drifted? It's peculiar because in G25, Hadza seem to show minor Eurasian (Caucasoid) admixture:

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I think Hadza just represent one of the major human races. Even humanphenotypes.net says that the Hadza type is "Very distinct from any other type in the world and has probably long been isolated."

In a paper from 2018 titled "Genetic Ancestry of Hadza and Sandawe Peoples Reveals Ancient Population Structure in Africa", Hadza had an FST distance of around .1 or more to every other African population group (https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/10/3/875/4935243, Table 2):

FST distance to Hadza:
.096 Nilo-Saharan
.099 Eastern and Southern Bantu
.099 Western Niger-Congo
.101 Omotic
.108 Western Pygmy
.110 Sandawe
.114 Berber
.122 Eastern Pygmy
.122 Khoisan
.125 Cushitic
.129 Arabian

The same paper estimated that Hadza split off from Niger-Congo and Nilo-Safaran Africans before Eurasians did:

We estimated divergence times of ∼98,000 to ∼96,000 years for Hadza ancestry from Eastern Pygmy and Khoisan ancestries, respectively, followed by divergence times of ∼89,000 and ∼88,000 years for Western Pygmy and Sandawe ancestries, respectively, and then followed by divergence times of ∼81,000 to 76,000 years for Arabian, Berber, eastern and southern Bantu-speaking, Nilo-Saharan, and Western Niger-Congo ancestries (table 3). These divergence times are all before Out-of-Africa, and therefore support early divergence of Hadza ancestry. In contrast, we estimated divergence times for Sandawe ancestry of ∼55,000–34,000 years (table 3).

Also Hadza have more Y-DNA B and less E1b1, but Sandawe have more E1b1 and less B:

In the Hadza population, the distribution of Y chromosomes includes mostly B2 haplogroups, with a smaller number of E1b1a haplogroups, which are common in Niger-Congo-speaking populations, and E1b1b haplogroups, which are common in Cushitic populations (Tishkoff et al. 2007). In the Sandawe population, E1b1a and E1b1b haplogroups are more common, with lower frequencies of B2 and A3b2 haplogroups (Tishkoff et al. 2007). Using autosomal data, Tishkoff et al. (2009) concluded that the Hadza population had ∼72% ancestry distantly related to Khoisan and Pygmy ancestries, with ∼22% Niger-Congo ancestry and ∼6% Cushitic ancestry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joqool

You should also add Dinka or Sudanese to the run. They are predominantly Nilotic with some West-Central African ancestry but no West Eurasian. Meanwhile Luo are so heavily mixed with Bantus that they are now mostly West-Central African with significant Nilotic admixture.

---

Oh yeah, you're right, Luo even look like Bantu. On G25, they're slightly closer to Yoruba than to Dinka or Mursi.

1240K+HO has one Dinka sample, and there's some samples of Shaigiya (who are Arabized Nubians from Northern Sudan), but otherwise it's missing samples from Sudan. There's also no samples from the SNNPR of Ethiopia (Southern Nations, Nationalities, and People's Region), even though G25 includes Mursi from the SNNPR.

I guess I'll have to start merging datasets instead of just relying on 1240K+HO.

Here's an ADMIXTURE run of African samples in 1240K+HO. Now Somalis have on average 55% of the North African component, but the North African component is of course not fully Caucasoid.

Dinka have 77% of the of the Niger-Congo component, 13% of the North African component, and 9% of the Capoid-Bambutid component.

https://i.ibb.co/pW6SWLJ/africa-admixture-k3.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Komintasavalta

Here's an ADMIXTURE run of African samples in 1240K+HO. Now Somalis have on average 55% of the North African component, but the North African component is of course not fully Caucasoid.

Dinka have 77% of the of the Niger-Congo component, 13% of the North African component, and 9% of the Capoid-Bambutid component.

https://i.ibb.co/pW6SWLJ/africa-admixture-k3.png

---

How do the dinka have north african component in that run when they dont have any eurasian admixture?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunder_shock

How do the dinka have north african component in that run when they dont have any eurasian admixture?

---

Dinka share some alleles with North Africans but not with West Africans, because both Dinka and North Africans lack drift that is specific to West Africans. Also Eurasians are derived from East Africans, so Dinka and North Africans have millennia of shared drift that is missing from West Africans.

For similar reasons, in the K=2 run Yoruba got 7% of the North African component (and they would've gotten even more if the run would've included more Capoid-Bambutid samples):

0 100 Canary_Islander
0 100 Jew_Moroccan
0 100 Jew_Tunisian
1 99 Egyptian
3 97 Libyan
3 97 Mozabite
5 95 Algerian
5 95 Tunisian
7 93 Saharawi
10 90 Moroccan
27 73 Eritrea
31 69 Afar
31 69 Jew_Ethiopian
41 59 Somali
53 47 Datog
59 41 Masai
71 29 Kikuyu
72 28 African_American
76 24 Hadza1
80 20 Afro_Caribbean
80 20 Dinka
87 13 Luhya
87 13 Luhya_Kenya_Webuye
87 13 Luo
88 12 BantuKenya
89 11 Gambian
89 11 Mandenka
91 9 Gambia_Western_Divisions
91 9 Khomani_San
92 8 Malawi_Chewa
92 8 Malawi_Ngoni
92 8 Malawi_Tumbuka
92 8 Malawi_Yao
93 7 Esan
93 7 Mende
93 7 Namibia_Bantu_Herero
93 7 Yoruba
97 3 BantuSA
100 0 Biaka
100 0 Ju_hoan_North
100 0 Mbuti

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Komintasavalta

Dinka share some alleles with North Africans but not with West Africans, because both Dinka and North Africans lack drift that is specific to West Africans. Also Eurasians are derived from East Africans, so Dinka and North Africans have millennia of shared drift that is missing from West Africans.

For similar reasons, in the K=2 run Yoruba got 7% of the North African component (and they would've gotten even more if the run would've included more Capoid-Bambutid samples):

0 100 Canary_Islander
0 100 Jew_Moroccan
0 100 Jew_Tunisian
1 99 Egyptian
3 97 Libyan
3 97 Mozabite
5 95 Algerian
5 95 Tunisian
7 93 Saharawi
10 90 Moroccan
27 73 Eritrea
31 69 Afar
31 69 Jew_Ethiopian
41 59 Somali
53 47 Datog
59 41 Masai
71 29 Kikuyu
72 28 African_American
76 24 Hadza1
80 20 Afro_Caribbean
80 20 Dinka
87 13 Luhya
87 13 Luhya_Kenya_Webuye
87 13 Luo
88 12 BantuKenya
89 11 Gambian
89 11 Mandenka
91 9 Gambia_Western_Divisions
91 9 Khomani_San
92 8 Malawi_Chewa
92 8 Malawi_Ngoni
92 8 Malawi_Tumbuka
92 8 Malawi_Yao
93 7 Esan
93 7 Mende
93 7 Namibia_Bantu_Herero
93 7 Yoruba
97 3 BantuSA
100 0 Biaka
100 0 Ju_hoan_North
100 0 Mbuti

---

Actually Dinka and most other Nilotes have elevated levels of Niger-Congo (West-Central African) related ancestry which Horners lack.

This woman is from South Sudan and she got 86% African (incl. 5% North Africa) and 13% Middle East, although that was back in 2017. You can't get blacker than her in terms of phenotype.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkTbkNFCCx8

Spoiler!

https://i.ibb.co/BqfmCdV/nikkithot-178362282.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/DCJtjBq/jamieperkins-167742006.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/vV24Ms3/nikkithot-120633790.jpg

Seems like they're no longer together.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leto

This woman is from South Sudan and she got 86% African (incl. 5% North Africa) and 13% Middle East, although that was back in 2017. You can't get blacker than her in terms of phenotype.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkTbkNFCCx8

Spoiler!

https://i.ibb.co/BqfmCdV/nikkithot-178362282.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/DCJtjBq/jamieperkins-167742006.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/vV24Ms3/nikkithot-120633790.jpg

Seems like they're no longer together.

---

Wow, she's very beautiful (that skin is shining) and yes extremely Negroid looking, that bulbous forehead is only present in real SSA people not in Negritos. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joqool

This seems to be the case. Although certain Sub Saharan groups such as Kikuyu, Bulala, Ethiopian_Mursi and Hadza who become closer to certain Ethiopians than some MENAs, but these Negroids also have Cushitic admixture which is like half Caucasoid which pulls them closer compared to most SSAs.

Note- Mada, Laka are West-Central Africans while Makhuwa and Nyaneka are Bantus from Southern Tanzania/Mozambique and Angola. Kikuyus are Bantus mixed with Cushitic while Bulala, Mursi are Nilo-Saharans with some Cushitic or MENA-like admixture, while Hadza are isolated hunter gatherers from Tanzania. Luhyas, Luos are Bantus and Nilotes from Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania. Mbuti are Pygmies while Khomani are Southern African Bushmen.

Do you find this surprising?

Distance to: Eritrean

Spoiler!

0.25721262 BedouinA
0.26194987 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.26552797 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.27155714 Yemenite_Amran
0.27174198 Syrian_East
0.27245424 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.27409577 BedouinB
0.27529430 Palestinian
0.27641663 Iraqi_Arab
0.27770647 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.28022540 Yemenite_Jew
0.28134270 Saudi
0.28470118 Yemenite_Mahra
0.29089205 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.31387519 Kikuyu
0.31658713 Samaritan
0.33449926 Cypriot
0.33715931 Hadza
0.34090173 Iranian_Persian
0.34092614 Assyrian
0.34717354 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.34758437 Armenian
0.34942540 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.36208616 Georgian_Laz
0.36330190 Kabardin
0.36656701 Abazin
0.36664418 Balkar
0.36939680 Abkhasian
0.36984113 Adygei
0.37094355 Georgian_Imer
0.37278800 Chechen
0.37553833 Tabasaran
0.37970304 Kaitag
0.39563302 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.40001892 Sudanese
0.40045605 Dinka
0.42463051 Mada
0.43608132 Luo
0.43654247 Luhya_Kenya
0.44137479 Bantu_Kenya
0.45411095 Gambian
0.45568627 Laka
0.45829851 Mwani
0.45938837 Kaba
0.46561518 Kadar
0.46715585 Bantu_S.W.
0.47173401 Yao
0.47190422 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.47880258 Bantu_S.E.
0.48527348 Yoruba
0.62291268 Khomani_San
0.73169371 Mbuti

Distance to: Ethiopian_Tigray

Spoiler!

0.26689143 BedouinA
0.27239581 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.27609269 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.28112112 Syrian_East
0.28185497 Yemenite_Amran
0.28312376 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.28458070 BedouinB
0.28506023 Palestinian
0.28556583 Iraqi_Arab
0.28813575 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.29077791 Yemenite_Jew
0.29177717 Saudi
0.29538504 Yemenite_Mahra
0.30029704 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.30307536 Kikuyu
0.32650763 Hadza
0.32667798 Samaritan
0.33648744 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.33864859 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.34414712 Cypriot
0.34941136 Iranian_Persian
0.35015846 Assyrian
0.35668391 Armenian
0.37074792 Georgian_Laz
0.37162840 Kabardin
0.37476088 Abazin
0.37481958 Balkar
0.37760009 Abkhasian
0.37812238 Adygei
0.37917108 Georgian_Imer
0.38088857 Chechen
0.38356505 Tabasaran
0.38488753 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.38779194 Kaitag
0.38925309 Sudanese
0.38968471 Dinka
0.41369586 Mada
0.42571604 Luo
0.42641688 Luhya_Kenya
0.43119539 Bantu_Kenya
0.44332482 Gambian
0.44494584 Laka
0.44785682 Mwani
0.44859474 Kaba
0.45653333 Bantu_S.W.
0.46118894 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.46133517 Yao
0.46700033 Kadar
0.46821674 Bantu_S.E.
0.47469150 Yoruba
0.61418556 Khomani_San
0.72571874 Mbuti

Distance to: Ethiopian_Afar

Spoiler!

0.27546802 BedouinA
0.28158326 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.28520023 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.28894733 Syrian_East
0.29073635 Yemenite_Amran
0.29230855 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.29323897 Iraqi_Arab
0.29341050 Palestinian
0.29386742 BedouinB
0.29649050 Kikuyu
0.29715898 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.29982578 Yemenite_Jew
0.30089893 Saudi
0.30449495 Yemenite_Mahra
0.30830754 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.31958810 Hadza
0.32819271 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.33028179 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.33543945 Samaritan
0.35233577 Cypriot
0.35585475 Iranian_Persian
0.35812078 Assyrian
0.36467048 Armenian
0.37675864 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.37765547 Kabardin
0.37854651 Georgian_Laz
0.38084856 Abazin
0.38089479 Balkar
0.38121019 Sudanese
0.38128031 Dinka
0.38465094 Adygei
0.38472953 Abkhasian
0.38670943 Georgian_Imer
0.38687075 Chechen
0.38927300 Tabasaran
0.39325094 Kaitag
0.40689367 Mada
0.41944799 Luo
0.42039152 Luhya_Kenya
0.42525611 Bantu_Kenya
0.43746162 Gambian
0.43868226 Laka
0.44219400 Mwani
0.44235644 Kaba
0.45103623 Bantu_S.W.
0.45546309 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.45576067 Yao
0.46298190 Bantu_S.E.
0.46514292 Kadar
0.46885795 Yoruba
0.61147523 Khomani_San
0.72139134 Mbuti

Distance to: Ethiopian_Amhara

Spoiler!

0.27846294 BedouinA
0.28402451 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.28770069 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.29228454 Syrian_East
0.29295238 Kikuyu
0.29347869 Yemenite_Amran
0.29470448 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.29629494 BedouinB
0.29651083 Palestinian
0.29657080 Iraqi_Arab
0.29972376 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.30230612 Yemenite_Jew
0.30341402 Saudi
0.30699647 Yemenite_Mahra
0.31143098 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.31549855 Hadza
0.32506154 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.32727732 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.33797064 Samaritan
0.35539958 Cypriot
0.35967358 Iranian_Persian
0.36107792 Assyrian
0.36752160 Armenian
0.37384886 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.37831457 Sudanese
0.37859838 Dinka
0.38130268 Georgian_Laz
0.38168096 Kabardin
0.38485013 Abazin
0.38485591 Balkar
0.38776789 Abkhasian
0.38824552 Adygei
0.38930602 Georgian_Imer
0.39080484 Chechen
0.39336738 Tabasaran
0.39738652 Kaitag
0.40422058 Mada
0.41604878 Luo
0.41701107 Luhya_Kenya
0.42181855 Bantu_Kenya
0.43473075 Gambian
0.43587245 Laka
0.43874708 Mwani
0.43958007 Kaba
0.44741916 Bantu_S.W.
0.45224899 Yao
0.45254230 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.45874376 Bantu_S.E.
0.46632943 Yoruba
0.47148699 Kadar
0.60536455 Khomani_San
0.71846690 Mbuti

Distance to: Ethiopian_Agaw

Spoiler!

0.27851705 BedouinA
0.28399479 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.28783923 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.29262622 Syrian_East
0.29350399 Yemenite_Amran
0.29465379 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.29505783 Kikuyu
0.29628757 BedouinB
0.29664990 Palestinian
0.29714999 Iraqi_Arab
0.29962392 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.30228813 Yemenite_Jew
0.30340513 Saudi
0.30693428 Yemenite_Mahra
0.31157090 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.31630482 Hadza
0.32617569 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.32840057 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.33794176 Samaritan
0.35513662 Cypriot
0.36037762 Iranian_Persian
0.36123806 Assyrian
0.36754769 Armenian
0.37525652 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.37981403 Sudanese
0.38025303 Dinka
0.38110316 Georgian_Laz
0.38163658 Kabardin
0.38474467 Balkar
0.38479016 Abazin
0.38762942 Abkhasian
0.38821010 Adygei
0.38923032 Georgian_Imer
0.39090231 Chechen
0.39365194 Tabasaran
0.39773515 Kaitag
0.40652661 Mada
0.41824942 Luo
0.41931234 Luhya_Kenya
0.42414787 Bantu_Kenya
0.43733338 Gambian
0.43831928 Laka
0.44123248 Mwani
0.44197370 Kaba
0.44976205 Bantu_S.W.
0.45468298 Yao
0.45502865 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.46085145 Bantu_S.E.
0.46904585 Yoruba
0.47437201 Kadar
0.60553873 Khomani_San
0.71662702 Mbuti

Distance to: Ethiopian_Jew

Spoiler!

0.28738891 BedouinA
0.28771212 Kikuyu
0.29249671 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.29601844 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.30106578 Syrian_East
0.30204680 Yemenite_Amran
0.30304414 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.30454668 BedouinB
0.30531014 Palestinian
0.30540661 Iraqi_Arab
0.30801460 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.30969597 Hadza
0.31067167 Yemenite_Jew
0.31161708 Saudi
0.31507842 Yemenite_Mahra
0.31795137 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.32022031 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.32035690 Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
0.34689866 Samaritan
0.36419020 Cypriot
0.36705962 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.36810560 Iranian_Persian
0.36981722 Assyrian
0.37169892 Sudanese
0.37185908 Dinka
0.37626659 Armenian
0.38967408 Kabardin
0.38982362 Georgian_Laz
0.39274871 Abazin
0.39275061 Balkar
0.39598185 Abkhasian
0.39629070 Adygei
0.39776830 Georgian_Imer
0.39874847 Chechen
0.39941839 Mada
0.40125822 Tabasaran
0.40520022 Kaitag
0.41127497 Luo
0.41238574 Luhya_Kenya
0.41718032 Bantu_Kenya
0.43115686 Gambian
0.43180161 Laka
0.43484745 Mwani
0.43534431 Kaba
0.44355654 Bantu_S.W.
0.44829025 Yao
0.44888632 Mende_Sierra_Leone
0.45477921 Bantu_S.E.
0.46285870 Yoruba
0.47621351 Kadar
0.60215397 Khomani_San
0.71502965 Mbuti

---

This is because:
1) Not all SSA ancestry is the same, with Africans groups being composed three major lineages, the first being Basal Human, the oldest offshoot of Anatomically modern Humans (AMH) and is associated with A00 Y-DNA. Basal Human is the smallest component, being present in mbuti pygmies and West Central Africans at around 7% (Its less in West Africans proper like Yoruba but its there). Basal Human does not seem to be present in Khoe-San from what I know. The second major lineage is Paleo-African is the majority ancestry in Mbuti and Khoi-San, and the second biggest component in West Africans ("Bantus" Basically). Paleo-African y-DNA seems to be associated with y-DNA A. Then lastly is the neo-African lineage and that is the most recent African ancestors of Eurasians around 80-70,000 KYA and Eurasians are technically Neo-Africans that underwent a major defining bottleneck of 1,000 breeding pair individuals that had 2-3% neanderthal intogression in the Levant corridor excluding Basals who never had Neanderthal intogression. Y-DNA A and B, D and E seems to be associated with Neo Africans and is directly ancestral to Eurasian Y-DNA. Proto Niolites, Mota and other Ancestral East Africans (AEA) were mostly or entirely Neo-Africans. West Africans are 50-40% Neo-African (called "Basal West African" in Shum Laka), 13% Taforalt, 7% Basal Human and 40-30% is Paleo-African. Proto Nilotes in the Eastern Sahara were entirely AEA Neo Africans, Mota in the Ethiopian Highlands was 80% Neo Africans AEA and 15% South African HG/San like Paleo-African. In North Africa you had Ancient North Africans (ANA) that was associated with the Atrian Culture, and no longer existed in Pure form from 20,000 KYA onwards, mixing with Duzudzuana and form Tafoalt/Iberomaurusian culture. It was found that pure ANA is between AEA and Basal Eurasian in affinity and in simulated PCA models. When discussing deep source ancestry in the decentants of Neo-Africans, the cline goes like this: AEA-ANA-Basal Eurasians-Crown Eurasians (Crown West Eurasians like Paleo-Euro HG, ANE, WHG and Eastern Non Africans like Intial Upper Paleolithic Oase/Bacho-Kiro/Tianyuan, Onge, AASI, Hoahinhbian, Basal East Asian, Papuans, Australians). So from this information, the "SSA" ancestry in Horners, being mostly Proto-Nilotic, is closer to OoA/ Eurasians from just the sheer fact that they had more recent ancestry with proto Eurasians and they lacked Paleo-African and the more divergent Basal Humans that is both present in West Africans. Though I need to stress that West Africans Biggest component is Neo African and the admixture with Taforalt during mesolithic made West African genetically closer OoA than the Khoi-san and Mbuti (though Mbuti has Bantu-admixure and Khoisan have low level Cushitic ancestry dating to the neolithic).

1) Unlike ENA and Euro-HG and Siberians, there was non Crown Eurasian Deep source ancestry present in PGNE (Post Glacial Near Easterners) such as Pinarbasi (Anatolian Hunter Gatherer. directly Dzudzuana), Caucasus HG, Natufians, Mesolithic Iranians (HotuIIB), Neolithic Iranians (bit less ANE derived than HotuIIB cave sample) and Anatolian Farmers (Basically 86% Pinarbasi and 14% Natufians) with components such as Basal Eurasians being present in all of them and ANA being present at around 14% in Natufians (Natufians were 30% Taforalt, rest Dzudzuana), present in low levels in Anatolians farmers via Natufian proxy, hence why Europeans have E-V13 which was present in Taforalt cave in North africa (West Africans also got their Y-DNA E1b1a from ANA despite being autosomaly mostly Neo-African and Paleo-African, its via 13% Taforalt admix). With the expansion of PGNE across Western Eurasia, all modern Western Eurasians have Basal Eurasian, with the additional ANA layer in MENA (less so for Euros outside the Med), both of which is responsible for diluting Neanderthal ancestry in modern West Eurasians. So a Horner is gonna have stronger affinity with West Asians/MENA/Meds independent of recent "SSA" ancestry via slavery or Pilgramage in MENA because of this deep source ancestry that existed in the Middle East before the Neolithic. This is also the reason why West Eurasians shift closer to SSA than ENA groups, or as Rizab Khan would put it; An African is closer to a Swede than he is an Andaman Islander despite looking phenotypically closer to the latter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andullero

They are basically Old World mulattoes, more or less.

---

Their "SSA" is different from the Caribbean and they never were slaves or had caste systems imposed on them but had established civilizations that even ruled Arabia under the axumites or Egypt under the Kushitic kings like Piye and Taharqa. Horners like Wadaad/Acended would take offence to that word "Mulato". Horners see themselves by ethnicity not by mixed racial identities

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joqool

I think its mainly Ethiopians who are 50/50 while Somalians are more like 60% SSA and 40% West Eurasian. While Eritreans seem to be closer to 60% West Eurasian and 40% SSA. There was even one Eritrean sample in G25 who was closer to 65% West Eurasian.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leto

He is Russian-German, his parents were born in Kazakhstan, she is Somali-Ethiopian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRFMG9Khghc&t=521s

European 99.9%
Eastern European (Ukraine) 77.3%
French & German (Netherlands) 8.3%
British & Irish 1.7%
Scandinavian 0.3%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.3%
Italian 0.1%
Broadly Northwestern European 5.5%
Broadly European 6.4%

Unassigned 0.1%


Sub-Saharan African 99.8%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 50.2%
Somali 47.6%
Sudanese 1.5%
Southern East African 0.1%
African Hunter-Gatherer 0.1%
Broadly Northern East African 0.3%

European 0.1%
Broadly European 0.1%

Unassigned 0.1%

---

I wonder how much Caucasoid/Negroid this woman is. She is Somali and Ethiopian (Oromo?). Probably over 40%. They have a daughter and she looks significantly more Caucasoid than half SSA mulattoes.
Maybe they've done Gedmatch, I'll have to go through the comment section.