Y clade finder and Morleys test

I just did the Morley and Yclade finder haplogroups thingys and im curious of how reliable my results are.I have use my ancestry RAW data since thats the company that i tested with.Ive seen people getting different results with ancestry raw data and others getting other results using 23andme raw data and so on.For the most part Morley and Yclad finder sais im R1b..bla bla bla (i may post pictures latter on) but is that true ? Also what are those red and green squares ? Would a Y DNA testing company give me a more accurate result ? Or do they all just use the same methods ? Also how on earth do they extract Y dna info from raw autosomal data ? In the end i dont care for a very very specific clade just the most general one and maybe one of its subtypes but thats all.

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Originally Posted by HunterKillerDrone

I just did the Morley and Yclade finder haplogroups thingys and im curious of how reliable my results are.I have use my ancestry RAW data since thats the company that i tested with.Ive seen people getting different results with ancestry raw data and others getting other results using 23andme raw data and so on.For the most part Morley and Yclad finder sais im R1b..bla bla bla (i may post pictures latter on) but is that true ? Also what are those red and green squares ? Would a Y DNA testing company give me a more accurate result ? Or do they all just use the same methods ? Also how on earth do they extract Y dna info from raw autosomal data ? In the end i dont care for a very very specific clade just the most general one and maybe one of its subtypes but thats all.

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The autosomal raw data from commercial companies used to show basic ethnic composition do not contain enough valid SNPs to accurately determine the Ydna, so sometimes the predictor can be wrong.

In my case Morley's predictor was right that it was R1a-M417, and cladefinder too, although cladefinder went a little further and assigned me R1a-Z2125 which is wrong. I used both with MyHeritage raw data.

MyAncestry raw data typically contains the read of more SNPs than MyHeritage or 23andMe (but 23andMe includes specific SNP usable for determining basic Ydna and mtdna).

I think that if Morley and Cladefinder gave to you R1b you probably are R1b, although of course there exist an small probability that both could be wrong.

To be sure, make an specific Ydna test.

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Originally Posted by HunterKillerDrone

I just did the Morley and Yclade finder haplogroups thingys and im curious of how reliable my results are.I have use my ancestry RAW data since thats the company that i tested with.Ive seen people getting different results with ancestry raw data and others getting other results using 23andme raw data and so on.For the most part Morley and Yclad finder sais im R1b..bla bla bla (i may post pictures latter on) but is that true ? Also what are those red and green squares ? Would a Y DNA testing company give me a more accurate result ? Or do they all just use the same methods ? Also how on earth do they extract Y dna info from raw autosomal data ? In the end i dont care for a very very specific clade just the most general one and maybe one of its subtypes but thats all.

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The autosomal raw data from commercial companies used to show basic ethnic composition do not contain enough valid SNPs to accurately determine the Ydna, so sometimes the predictor can be wrong.

In my case Morley's predictor was right that it was R1a-M417, and cladefinder too, although cladefinder went a little further and assigned me R1a-Z2125 which is wrong. I used both with MyHeritage raw data.

MyAncestry raw data typically contains the read of more SNPs than MyHeritage or 23andMe (but 23andMe includes specific SNP usable for determining basic Ydna and mtdna).

I think that if Morley and Cladefinder gave to you R1b you probably are R1b, although of course there exist an small probability that both could be wrong.

To be sure, make an specific Ydna test.

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Originally Posted by gixajo

The autosomal raw data from commercial companies used to show basic ethnic composition do not contain enough valid SNPs to accurately determine the Ydna, so sometimes the predictor can be wrong.

In my case Morley's predictor was right that it was R1a-M417, and cladefinder too, although cladefinder went a little further and assigned me R1a-Z2125 which is wrong. I used both with MyHeritage raw data.

MyAncestry raw data typically contains the read of more SNPs than MyHeritage or 23andMe (but 23andMe includes specific SNP usable for determining basic Ydna and mtdna).

I think that if Morley and Cladefinder gave to you R1b you probably are R1b, although of course there exist an small probability that both could be wrong.

To be sure, make an specific Ydna test.

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My mistake its actually a very long R1a line (R1a1a1b1a2b)

Yseq does Y tests but the 300-400euros cost is just out of this world.Other Y companies have more acceptable costs but still its close to 100 euros and again a 1-2 month wait and believe me i cant stand those wait times

One other thing i just realized is that Morley sais "Using experimental tree 2013" so isnt that really outdated data by now ? Or does that mean that the project started in 2013 ?

What Y company do you propose ? Also shall i post my Morley and Yseq data in case you can help or something ?

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Originally Posted by HunterKillerDrone

One other thing i just realized is that Morley sais "Using experimental tree 2013" so isnt that really outdated data by now ? Or does that mean that the project started in 2013 ?

What Y company do you propose ?

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So you are probably R-CTS1211 , R1a-Z280 as I am? I am not very confident in the different ways of expressing Ydna.

What company? Well, it depends on how far you want to go and how much money you want to spend and what exactly you are looking for with your Ydna.

Anyway, an R1a is not a rarity in your area.

If you just want to know cheaply if you are really R1a-, taking advantage of an offer from 23andMe would suffice and you would also get autosomal data and ethnic estimation etc, if you want to spend a little more, a Yseq super panel for R1a would probably give you a lot more information. At the same level would be a Y37 or Y111 from FTDNA, and to go further (and a lot more money) it would be a BIG Y from FTDNA or do a full genome reading with Yseq, Nebula (I think it's usable with enough depth also for Ydna) etc...

I was unlucky because I have a rare subclade (for now) and I haven't been able to really go very far nor have I been able to find any close matches that can help me explain how it got to the country I'm from.

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Originally Posted by gixajo

So you are probably R-CTS1211 , R1a-Z280 as I am? I am not very confident in the different ways of expressing Ydna.

What company? Well, it depends on how far you want to go and how much money you want to spend and what exactly you are looking for with your Ydna.

Anyway, an R1a is not a rarity in your area.

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YES YES exactly those ones ! Or at least very close. R1a-CTS3607 R1a-Z282 and of course R1a-CTS1211 which sais its the most likely and its also what Yseq gave me

Good to hear its not a rarity cause im new to this stuff.I somewhat expected it from my anthropological research but anthro isnt an indicator of a lot of things always so yea

Lets say i just want to know the basics (i dont know if ill do such a test but i will consider it)

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Originally Posted by HunterKillerDrone

YES YES exactly those ones ! Or at least very close. R1a-CTS3607 R1a-Z282 and of course R1a-CTS1211 which sais its the most likely and its also what Yseq gave me

Good to hear its not a rarity cause im new to this stuff.I somewhat expected it from my anthropological research but anthro isnt an indicator of a lot of things always so yea

Lets say i just want to know the basics (i dont know if ill do such a test but i will consider it)

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You could try this pannel for CTS1211:

http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=10169

This will include:

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The following SNPs are contained in the R1a-Z280 Panel:
Z91 (replacing Z280), YP6218, YP5000, CTS2740, S24902, YP469, YP561, YP4094, YP4090, Y48979, Y20409, YP4777, YP565, YP4660, YP6008, YP659, Z92, Z685, Z1907, CTS9551, FGC46006 / YP5615, S3343 (equiv. to CTS214), YP4364, CTS5149 / S3349, CTS6050, YP270, CTS4648, Y13891 & Y13892, YP1405, S3380, YP4485, YP4486, YP351, Y16755, YP4308, Y9081, YP4465, YP350, Y42738, Y24032, Y79085, Y4459, YP5525, YP6050, Y138015, YP617, Y29965, YP1700, YP573, YP569, YP575, Y11268, Y22792, YP5841, YP6505, B120 / YP6504, BY30750, BY32093 / Y90140, YP4846, YP683, YP5295, YP690, Y61476, VK03, A8998, A8987, Y79255, YP1261, YP1260, YP1698, YP1696, YP6187, CTS1211, YP4934, FT83347, YP1158, Y59520, Y48842, YP1032, YP6077, YP1027, YP1029, YP4970, YP5665, Y68985, YP343, YP3979, Y15698, BY36590, YP340, FGC2555, Y48066, P278.2, A19360, YP1702, Y136297, Y42285, YP5282, YP5806, Y88550, YP371, Y110177, Y81700, Y11177, Y19145, YP375, Y10810, BY106096, YP380, YP4702, YP1034, YP4288, Y13467, YP4329, YP997, YP6439, YP5827, YP5839, Y35, YP4286, BY30743, YP4441, YP4707, Y2194 (replacing CTS3402), Y2613, Y2609, YP4999, Y2608, YP6098, BY27373, YP3929, Y42057, YP1626, YP5502, YP613, YP4098, Y33, YP6009, YP5917, YP5919, Y90973, Y99176, YP968, YP969, Y16500, YP6012, Y112838, CTS8816, L1280, FGC11555, Y23851, Y5647, YP6344, YP3990, YP3992, FGC19283, YP6064, YP6062, Y37300, YP1448, YP1701, FGC19273, Y2902, CTS11142, CTS8841 / S3368, YP3994, BY65954, Y35232, YP1447, Y35213, BY32474, YP6083, Y1396, Y17986, Y4380, Y4382, FGC10360 / Y3226, FGC56507 / YP5224, A15622 / BY27799, Y3219, Y3222, Y3220, YP4968, Y23598, YP1144, PH3519, FGC40572 / Y18555, PH864, Y2910, Y2915, Y35606, PF5327, YP310, Y29593, YP5995, S18681, Y12463, YP4275, YP1428, YP4442, YP5910, YP5916, YP325, YP314, YP1409, Y4376, Y5973.2, BY33400, YP1361, Y104915, YP1363, BY154594, BY79500, YP6188, YP6495, YP5509, YP5924, YP237, YP6001, FGC13708, YP4821, YP419, YP6065, YP581, Y21041, YP578, Y35758, Y10802, Y30194, YP1080, A7020, A7015, YP1116, YP1112, Y35781, YP953, YP951, Y17619, FGC39331, FGC39315, FGC39326, BY167763, BY166543, YP1412, YP6401, Y23849, YP4530, YP4659, Y34264, YP6186, YP979 (replacing YP977), FGC21236 / YP6377, FGC21220, JN78, JN89, JN82, YP1018, YP1038, YP6026, FGC37072, Y28673, YP235, Y17522, YP234, YP295, L366, YP5223, BY128090, YP338, FGC67044, Y74029, YP337, YP591, YP5306, YP238, L365, Y16879, YP677, YP4834, YP243, FGC19222 / YP389, YP4670, BY12551 / Y28938, YP940, F2686, YP269, YP5936, Y6956, YP389

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Originally Posted by gixajo

You could try this pannel for CTS1211:

http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=10169

This will include:

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So that panel will tell me a more specific clade ?

Ill take a better look at their other products and maybe consider them but definitely not now

Also how do i use this https://predict.yseq.net/ and does it even matter ?

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Originally Posted by HunterKillerDrone

So that panel will tell me a more specific clade ?



Also how do i use this https://predict.yseq.net/ and does it even matter ?

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Yes, of course if you are actually CTS1211, if you are not very confident in those predictors you could try first the R1a superpannel, that would probably not go so far away than the other pannel, but very close.

I´ve never tried that predictor, but if I am not wrong MyAncestry don´t provide STRs data but just SNPs so you cannot try it.

I don't know if you know the Anthrogenica forum, it's a more specific forum for these issues where there are people who know all these issues in great depth, there you could find people who advise you better than me. In this forum there are also people who know a lot, but I think that Anthrogenica has a more "serious" and scientific character.

Good luck, I must go.

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Originally Posted by gixajo

Good luck, I must go.

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Thanks a lot man have a great day

If anyone else has an opinion please feel free to share it

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Originally Posted by HunterKillerDrone

I just did the Morley and Yclade finder haplogroups thingys and im curious of how reliable my results are.I have use my ancestry RAW data since thats the company that i tested with.Ive seen people getting different results with ancestry raw data and others getting other results using 23andme raw data and so on.For the most part Morley and Yclad finder sais im R1b..bla bla bla (i may post pictures latter on) but is that true ? Also what are those red and green squares ? Would a Y DNA testing company give me a more accurate result ? Or do they all just use the same methods ? Also how on earth do they extract Y dna info from raw autosomal data ? In the end i dont care for a very very specific clade just the most general one and maybe one of its subtypes but thats all.

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people with different raw datas do not get different results on Morley or yseq. They can only get lower od deeper subclade depth depending on raw data.

It's 100% reliable for macro haplogroups.

You are R1a and there is no chance you aren't. If you are not interested into deep subclades, additional tests would be a waste of money for you.
y-dna can be extracted from Ancestry/Myheritage raw data because they also do test for Y cromosome snps.

double

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

people with different raw datas do not get different results on Morley or yseq. They can only get lower od deeper subclade depth depending on raw data.

It's 100% reliable for macro haplogroups.

You are R1a and there is no chance you aren't. If you are not interested into deep subclades, additional tests would be a waste of money for you.
y-dna can be extracted from Ancestry/Myheritage raw data because they also do test for Y cromosome snps.

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If thats true then you just made my day.I dont have the money nor am i that interested in very specific clades.I think that even if the subclades are wrong then they wont be that wrong because i know my paternal family history and for me they make sense

I said that people get different results because i once saw a guy post his ancestry data and he got I1 something and with 23andme he got I2 something but in the end it still remained an I.There was also an Indian guy that said this "I got these 2 in the Morley tool, but FTDNA classified me as H1a1a (H-M82) haplogroup H-M36-

R1
R-PF6007 (R-F211, R-F378)


F
F-F2048 (F-PF2745, F-F2075)"

British guy page 10 Indian guy page 7 https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ediction/page7

Apart from the Indian guy ive never seen anyone else get it wrong both in that thread and in other ones (also never seen anyone get it wrong on any other forum) so i guess im ok on the macro level

https://isogg.org/wiki/AncestryDNA its mentioned that
"The chip used by AncestryDNA includes a small selection of Y-chromosome SNPs. Ancestry does not provide a Y-DNA haplogroup report but it is possible to get a haplogroup assignment from the raw data. See the blog post by Steven Frank Updated method to get YDNA haplogroup from AncestryDNA results for details of how to do this."

Comments on this website http://geneticgenealogist.net/2017/0...aplogroup.html said

"I think you meant v2 for AncestryDNA; 23andMe is on v5 now (since some time in August).

"One thing that makes me wonder about the reliability of AncestryDNA markers is that females get some derived results. Those could be picking up XY SNPs."

"AncestryDNA does include some mtDNA data, it's under chromosome 26. Not all of the SNPs are particularly relevant for haplogroup designation, though"

"AncestryDNA doesn't test mitochondrial DNA, which determines the matrilineal haplogroup. It does have some X DNA markers, which are preferentially inherited thorough females, but that's tricky to analyze since it recombines. But you might check out LivingDNA's test which includes Y DNA, autosomal, and mitochondrial, if you want to have more fun!"

So in other words,is there any chance its confusing my mothers DNA or something ?


Also another question do different companies give different general clades or only sub clades ? Have ever been people who got lets say R1a with 23andMe and then I2 with FTDNA ? Also how great is the possibility of Yseq being wrong on the very general and basic clade (just tell me a number like 5%,10% etc) ?

I know i may sound crazy at this point but im just trying to eliminate all possibilities of me making a mistacke and also trying to 100% see if theres no point in paying further.

If we take into account what this image tells us then only living DNA,tellmegen and FTDNA have enough SNPs for a good haplo prediction.All the other companies just seem too low compared to them.Now as you people said more SNPs equal more accuracy but the main clade can be predicted even by a low amount such as that of ancestry.Is that true though ? Since the number seem too low for my likingAttachment 116385

I already answered you and won't repeat myself. FTDNA autosomal data cannot give haplogroup prediction because they remove such markers before releasing family finder results to customers.

Go ahead and waste money.