https://youtu.be/TgP2JgYb9QM
https://youtu.be/eenzYNVGmiA
A thread dedicated to the genetics of Dagestani people.
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https://youtu.be/TgP2JgYb9QM
https://youtu.be/eenzYNVGmiA
A thread dedicated to the genetics of Dagestani people.
https://i.ibb.co/PGVRLzp/IMG-20240221-145459.pngCode:Dagestan_A_224,0.1132641,0.1052115,-0.0241492,0.0110974,-0.0410406,0.0131676,0.0074667,-0.004812,-0.0601163,-0.0404914,-0.002143,0.0063245,-0.0122267,-0.0085308,0.0163228,-0.0024973,-0.000631,-0.0021537,-0.0049005,0.0048516,-0.0002668,0.0010268,0.0056798,0.008885,-0.0018475
Late_Kubano-Tersk,0.119960183,0.097609398,0.013741452,0.068773026,-0.03603369,0.030537055,0.003878441,-0.00405948,-0.058980634,-0.062384447,-0.000416315,0.002812495,-0.008137316,-0.015095621,0.028558509,0.001486384,-0.003123239,-0.003411037,-0.006150572,0.012241814,-0.002516099,0.00259717,0.010814384,0.015611066,-0.002933133
Kura-Araxes,0.1026079,0.1284447,-0.064171,-0.0415508,-0.0434699,-0.0045176,0.0102489,-0.0046508,-0.0548709,-0.0179642,0.0012813,0.0078621,-0.0159861,0.0003886,0.0039791,-0.0052881,0.0047866,-0.0011535,-0.0020129,0.0009926,0.0070605,-0.0022672,-0.0001917,-0.0081802,0.0015759
Turkic,0.0857739,-0.1156978,0.0614975,0.0476886,-0.0436564,0.0023308,-1.68e-05,0.0017966,-0.0115701,-0.0231569,-0.0103812,-0.0020339,0.0017628,-0.0228651,0.0151036,0.0060612,-0.0051316,-0.0009772,-0.0011851,0.0055919,-0.0200629,0.0044691,-0.0008627,0.0018419,-0.0020101
Noise,1.534985809,0.093575034,-0.966536485,-1.822562541,-0.61777605,0.27348795,0.328946594,-0.33736473,-2.423238711,-0.488008828,-1.103481205,0.624248966,-0.329574356,-0.332301218,0.063075202,-0.435476758,-0.62913271,0.039815834,-0.462706592,-0.858756142,-0.887531431,0.35790253,0.294499192,2.620348953,-0.562485124
Steppe_EMBA,0.1241235,0.0848619,0.0413175,0.1135563,-0.0331793,0.0454887,0.0018403,-0.0028511,-0.0581687,-0.0780796,0.0004542,-0.0004648,-0.0014356,-0.0223832,0.0385222,0.0086,-0.0090596,-0.0025775,-0.0039348,0.0102297,-0.0076258,0.002887,0.013586,0.024431,-0.0037705
West_Caucasus_BA,0.1086872,0.1321257,-0.060926,-0.0524863,-0.0437625,-0.0099474,0.0093971,-0.0073314,-0.0611791,-0.0198868,-0.0027734,0.0116864,-0.0262835,0.0046369,0.0015799,-0.0177751,0.0129506,-0.005668,-0.0121502,0.01769,0.0113194,0.0018124,0.0033097,-0.0082706,-0.0006658
Dagestan Y-DNA (n=1775)
C = 0.3%
D = 0.1%
E = 1%
G = 5.3%
I2 = 2.2%
J1 = 65.1%
J2 = 5%
L = 1.7%
T = 0.8%
N = 0.5%
O = 0.3%
Q = 0.8%
R1a = 4.7%
R1b = 12.2%
Kumyk Y-lineages in NE Caucasians
https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-A9407/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP451/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y104457/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y20793/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y52/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y95687/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y155382/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y210282/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT143389/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP451/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-A12360/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-Y83760/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/D-Y162003/
The minor Turkic ancestry in Dagestanis and Nakhs was, of course, brought by the ancestors of Kumyks, cousins of Oghuric Karachay-Balkars.
If Dagestanis had adopted the speech of their Steppe EMBA mothers, they would most likely have spoken some form of Armenian.
Found this meme posted by Ancestral Whispers
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbvUoHgX...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbvUp40X...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoIiZC1X...jpg&name=large
Link: https://twitter.com/Sulkalmakh/statu...98019988717571
He's most likely the Kura-Araxian dude from Velikent.
Do they not have any Iranian ancestry?
Dagestan is diverse, I think Kumyks have significantly lower Steppe ancestry than NE Caucasian speakers.
Nope, no Iranian ancestry. Kumyks are very mixed, hence the lower Steppe. But they're not part of this average.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Origins of East Caucasus Gene Pool: Contributions of Autochthonous Bronze Age Populations and Migrations from West Asia Estimated from Y-Chromosome Data
Quote:
The gene pool of the East Caucasus, encompassing modern-day Azerbaijan and Dagestan populations, was studied alongside adjacent populations using 83 Y-chromosome SNP markers. The analysis of genetic distances among 18 populations (N = 2216) representing Nakh-Dagestani, Altaic, and Indo-European language families revealed the presence of three components (Steppe, Iranian, and Dagestani) that emerged in different historical periods. The Steppe component occurs only in Karanogais, indicating a recent medieval migration of Turkic-speaking nomads from the Eurasian steppe. The Iranian component is observed in Azerbaijanis, Dagestani Tabasarans, and all Iranian-speaking peoples of the Caucasus. The Dagestani component predominates in Dagestani-speaking populations, except for Tabasarans, and in Turkic-speaking Kumyks. Each component is associated with distinct Y-chromosome haplogroup complexes: the Steppe includes C-M217, N-LLY22g, R1b-M73, and R1a-M198; the Iranian includes J2-M172(×M67, M12) and R1b-M269; the Dagestani includes J1-Y3495 lineages. We propose J1-Y3495 haplogroup’s most common lineage originated in an autochthonous ancestral population in central Dagestan and splits up ~6 kya into J1-ZS3114 (Dargins, Laks, Lezgi-speaking populations) and J1-CTS1460 (Avar-Andi-Tsez linguistic group). Based on the archeological finds and DNA data, the analysis of J1-Y3495 phylogeography suggests the growth of the population in the territory of modern-day Dagestan that started in the Bronze Age, its further dispersal, and the microevolution of the diverged population.
Target: kesseras_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 3.0539% / 0.03053918
63.2 Kura-Araxes
16.2 Turkic
15.0 West_Caucasus_BA
4.6 Late_Kubano-Tersk
1.0 Steppe_EMBA
Distance to: kesseras_simulated_g25_scaled
0.06144131 Kura-Araxes
0.06299342 Dagestan_A_224
0.07396780 West_Caucasus_BA
0.12894221 Late_Kubano-Tersk
0.18710551 Steppe_EMBA
0.24622285 Turkic
4.92916107 Noise
On Gedmatch many Dags would score 25-27% Gedrosia, sometimes close to 30 percent. That's why I was asking.Quote:
Originally Posted by axlredneck
Averages from Genoplot:Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Kura Araxes
Gedrosia: 24.77%
Siberian: 0.09%
Northwest African: 0.96%
Southeast Asian: 0.46%
Atlantic Med: 2.41%
North European: 7.16%
South Asian: 1.24%
East African: 0.47%
Southwest Asian: 9.02%
East Asian: 0.00%
Caucasus: 53.19%
Sub Saharan: 0.23%
Afanasievo
Gedrosia: 27.96%
Siberian: 2.87%
Northwest African: 0.00%
Southeast Asian: 0.03%
Atlantic Med: 2.93%
North European: 58.35%
South Asian: 1.08%
East African: 0.21%
Southwest Asian: 0.00%
East Asian: 0.06%
Caucasus: 5.86%
Sub Saharan: 0.66%
Maykop
Gedrosia: 22.19%
Siberian: 0.00%
Northwest African: 0.76%
Southeast Asian: 0.44%
Atlantic Med: 5.11%
North European: 6.85%
South Asian: 1.62%
East African: 0.00%
Southwest Asian: 5.79%
East Asian: 0.24%
Caucasus: 56.42%
Sub Saharan: 0.58%
All ancient pops ancestral to Dagestanis score high Gedrosia on this calculator; hence, Dagestanis score high Gedrosia likely.
I see but the Dagestanis do stand out in this regard. Georgia and even Azerbaijan usually do not score over 20-22% Gedrosia.Quote:
Originally Posted by axlredneck
Nogai outliers (n=3) with a Dagestani profile (from Moriopoulus collection)
https://i.ibb.co/p31Zf99/IMG-20240304-171453.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Tgxy1qB/IMG-20240304-171632.jpg
Code:Nogai_o,0.11534067,0.098845,-0.019359,0.019164667,-0.035391333,0.015246,0.0096353333,-0.0034613333,-0.055698667,-0.040577667,-0.0052506667,0.0061446667,-0.0087213333,-0.0096796667,0.010948333,-0.0041986667,0.000739,-0.000929,-0.0041896667,0.0062113333,-0.00020766667,0.0056883333,0.0038616667,0.0077116667,-0.0044306667
Do you think they are the darkest people in Dagestan after the Azerbaijanis? Overall, is the Northwestern Caucasus (Circassians and Karachay-Balkars) lighter or darker than the Northeastern Caucasus? I think in Dagestan and Chechnya there are quite a few light people, sometimes very white like Northern Europeans.Quote:
Originally Posted by axlredneck
I'm not really into races, classication and anthropology related stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Greetings to the author, thank you for raising this topic. I see you have a good command of mathematics, what does your proxy “Noise” mean, why does adding it to the calculator change the picture so much? Can this proxy be used in other calculators, or is it tailored only for your calculator?
and also about your proxies, I noticed that your “Turkish” component takes over part of the EHG, and because of this, some people show less of the Yamnaya component than it actually is, I tried to throw a couple of my fellow countrymen into your calculator, but they came out there unrealistically large values for the Turkic component and at the same time small for the steppe, while this Kura Araks “southern” proxy remained unchanged
Attachment 128450
just in case, I received these coordinates through Davidski
There are people in Dagestan for every taste and color, and black and white and red and brunettes and even blondes can be found, but the most interesting thing is that nationalities with a high steppe component do not differ in any way from those who have less of this component, which gives me reason to believe that they themselves steppe cattle breeders looked like Dagestanis xd
Coordinates from this thread:
Dagestan_A_224,0.1132641,0.1052115,-0.0241492,0.0110974,-0.0410406,0.0131676,0.0074667,-0.004812,-0.0601163,-0.0404914,-0.002143,0.0063245,-0.0122267,-0.0085308,0.0163228,-0.0024973,-0.000631,-0.0021537,-0.0049005,0.0048516,-0.0002668,0.0010268,0.0056798,0.008885,-0.0018475
Late_Kubano-Tersk,0.119960183,0.097609398,0.013741452,0.068773 026,-0.03603369,0.030537055,0.003878441,-0.00405948,-0.058980634,-0.062384447,-0.000416315,0.002812495,-0.008137316,-0.015095621,0.028558509,0.001486384,-0.003123239,-0.003411037,-0.006150572,0.012241814,-0.002516099,0.00259717,0.010814384,0.015611066,-0.002933133
Kura-Araxes,0.1026079,0.1284447,-0.064171,-0.0415508,-0.0434699,-0.0045176,0.0102489,-0.0046508,-0.0548709,-0.0179642,0.0012813,0.0078621,-0.0159861,0.0003886,0.0039791,-0.0052881,0.0047866,-0.0011535,-0.0020129,0.0009926,0.0070605,-0.0022672,-0.0001917,-0.0081802,0.0015759
Turkic,0.0857739,-0.1156978,0.0614975,0.0476886,-0.0436564,0.0023308,-1.68e-05,0.0017966,-0.0115701,-0.0231569,-0.0103812,-0.0020339,0.0017628,-0.0228651,0.0151036,0.0060612,-0.0051316,-0.0009772,-0.0011851,0.0055919,-0.0200629,0.0044691,-0.0008627,0.0018419,-0.0020101
Noise,1.534985809,0.093575034,-0.966536485,-1.822562541,-0.61777605,0.27348795,0.328946594,-0.33736473,-2.423238711,-0.488008828,-1.103481205,0.624248966,-0.329574356,-0.332301218,0.063075202,-0.435476758,-0.62913271,0.039815834,-0.462706592,-0.858756142,-0.887531431,0.35790253,0.294499192,2.620348953,-0.562485124
Steppe_EMBA,0.1241235,0.0848619,0.0413175,0.113556 3,-0.0331793,0.0454887,0.0018403,-0.0028511,-0.0581687,-0.0780796,0.0004542,-0.0004648,-0.0014356,-0.0223832,0.0385222,0.0086,-0.0090596,-0.0025775,-0.0039348,0.0102297,-0.0076258,0.002887,0.013586,0.024431,-0.0037705
West_Caucasus_BA,0.1086872,0.1321257,-0.060926,-0.0524863,-0.0437625,-0.0099474,0.0093971,-0.0073314,-0.0611791,-0.0198868,-0.0027734,0.0116864,-0.0262835,0.0046369,0.0015799,-0.0177751,0.0129506,-0.005668,-0.0121502,0.01769,0.0113194,0.0018124,0.0033097,-0.0082706,-0.0006658
Nogai_o,0.11534067,0.098845,-0.019359,0.019164667,-0.035391333,0.015246,0.0096353333,-0.0034613333,-0.055698667,-0.040577667,-0.0052506667,0.0061446667,-0.0087213333,-0.0096796667,0.010948333,-0.0041986667,0.000739,-0.000929,-0.0041896667,0.0062113333,-0.00020766667,0.0056883333,0.0038616667,0.00771166 67,-0.0044306667
My results:
Distance to: Repent:RealG25_scaled
0.13503318 Late_Kubano-Tersk
0.13533850 Nogai_o
0.14585494 Dagestan_A_224
0.15719671 Steppe_EMBA
0.18889685 Kura-Araxes
0.19828163 West_Caucasus_BA
0.25163942 Turkic
4.98261513 Noise
Target: Repent:RealG25_scaled
Distance: 12.8221% / 0.12822134
66.0 Nogai_o
27.6 Steppe_EMBA
6.4 Turkic