I've always been interested in this question. Do you think Austrians are Germans, just with a different political label, or are Austrians a separate ethnic group from the Germans? In addition, what you think about Swiss Germans?
Printable View
I've always been interested in this question. Do you think Austrians are Germans, just with a different political label, or are Austrians a separate ethnic group from the Germans? In addition, what you think about Swiss Germans?
I consider them differently as i do with Serbians and Croatians.
Very, very different, IMO. I think of Austrians and Swiss as being largely Alpine, while proper Germans are Nordic. I see it more like "Germans = Dutch = Danes".
Disclaimer: This is all simply my opinion and has very little to no grounding in actual fact.
Austrians ARE Bavarians.
I see Austrians as a regional variation of Germans, much like Prussians, Alsatians, Saxons, etc.
You're right, and I only view them as technically being Germans. I don't see them as "proper" Germans. Proper Germans have to look like me.
I'll probably take so much flak for this but, rest assured all swarthy Germans, my opinion on this matter is based purely on my own quirky view and has no basis in fact ;)
I think they were a Germanicized group of people that included different types of which Slav is one.
........
Are there any notable genetic differences?
I would say mostly Germanic; but, there were tons of other peoples in modern day Austria as well. The first peoples were probably Pannonian (who were "kind of" Greek). They then mixed with the Gaulish and became Celts. Long after, copious Germanic peoples came as did many Slavs (the former outnumbering the latter). I think it's fair to call Austrians "Germanic" but if I were Austrian I'd call myself, simply, Austrian.
i think they are the same people.
Edit: Hitler was Austrian actually but had no problems becoming German Leader, if he were not German do you think he would become Leader of Germany? Like if he were French or English he would never become Leader of Germany back than.
I would expect more genetic contribution from Hungary/Slavic elements in Austrians.
Though it seems Austrians are a bit darker than Germans.
Where would Austrian Chancellor pass?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...en08-2008a.jpg
From a historical perspective Austrians are Germans for sure, that's also how I see them. Wien was capital of the Holy Roman Empire for a long time, and many of it's emperors were descendants from the House of Habsburg.
That Austria isn't part of Germany today is because of the unfavorable development only in the nearer history.
When the modern Germany was founded in 1871 Greater Germany couldn't be realized (with Greater Germany including the German speaking parts of Austria-Hungary).
After World War I, when Austria-Hungary was dissolved, the majority of the Austrians wanted to join Germany, but it was forbidden by the Treaty of St. Germain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_...-en-Laye_(1919)).
Also the Anschluss in 1938 was welcomed by the great majority of Austrians.
After WW II there was the concept of creating a new "Austrian-non-German" identity, which until now seemed to be rather successful. But there are still quite a number of Austrians who see themselves as Germans, most notably many supporters of the FPÖ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Party_of_Austria).
Austrians are of a separate culture, although similar to Bavarians. The difference lies mainly in it's history. Austria's institutions are older (University of Vienna is the oldest in the German-speaking world), the people identify with the monarchy of the Habsburgs and the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the struggle with the Turks etc, rather than with Germany, or what was the union of German states under the Prussians.
The individual provinces of Austria also have a very independent spirit, as Austrians often identify first with the province they live in: Tiroler, Salzburger etc.
Austrians also tend to be more charming and fun-loving than the Germans. Austrians drink wine, Germans drink Beer. Austrians drink beer too but their rich and ancient wine tradition is one that separates them from the Germans.
Settlement in Austria:
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/u...chEthnisch.jpg
Caption:
Slavic settlement + bavarian immigration
Celtic and rhaeto-roman settlement + bavarinan immigration
Rhaeto-roman settlement + alamannic immigration
Rhaeto-roman
Avars
Bavarian colonisation
Almost unpopulated
Names of illyric derivation
Names of celtic derivation
Names of roman derivation
Names of slavic derivation
Names of german derivation
Ring of the Avars
Austrian mugs:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24027
Austria is Germany's extention to the southeast in all respects. Thus we differ in some respects from the German mean, but that's just normal considering that Austria is a border region.
To me, there can be no doubt that Austrians are ethnic Bavarians -hence Germans. While nowadays most Austrians believe in a distinct Austrian Nation and Ethnicity. Amongst them also many FPÖ-voters, just to mention that. (Proving that one can vote the right party out of the wrong reasons;))
Well ethnically or rather racially, Austrians obviously aren't different really from Bavarians, Austria's history stems from the Duchy of Bavaria. But if you think they are the same nation, then by similar reasoning, the Scotts are ethnically Irish because they were originally a collection of Irish Gaelic clans and still speak a similar Gaelic dialect. Nevermind the hundreds of years of history, customs, monarchy that separates them.
I do think the long time of separation between Austria and Germany (and its states) allowed for a separate identity to from in Austria stemming from the Hapsburg monarchy interactions with Hungarians, Serbs, etc. and obviously the dominant Catholic religion. Of course the identity was reinforced after WW2. In my view what we are seeing is the steady process of a formation of a separate ethnic group. The reason there's so much controversy is if Austrians=Germans or not, is that they are still in the process of becoming a separate ethnic group, which takes naturally a rather long time. The fact that most Austrians consider themselves Austrian not German is a big step in this process, and I think given a long period of time, this controversy will die down.
Just look at how numerous other ethnic groups have been formed.
As I understand, most of Austria is ethnic German as it was once the same country. Oesterreich just means "Eastern Reich," anyway.
But Austria is part of the ethnolinguistic group of Germans which Italians and French are not. They speak German with a Bavarian dialect, so there is a fluent transition of the dialects at the border between the FRG and Austria. Here you can see where the Bavarian dialect is prevalent:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-Flaggn-02.png
As there was pointed out before, Austria was created by Bavarian settlement. The differences between Austrians and Bavarians are much less than for example the differences between Bavarians and North Germans. So it's rather absurd to claim Austria is that distinct from the rest of Germany, that it forms a new nation.
Just because Austrians speak German doesn't mean they're ethnically German. The only real link between Germany/Prussia and Austria is Hitler and German language.
Austrians are just Germans with a bit of Slavic and Italian influence. Same goes for Swiss Germans, but with French influence instead of Slavic.
The separation wasn't as strong as you might think, at least until 1866.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Confederation
Austrian was only the collective term for all the different ethnicities within the A-H monarchy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Au...ary_ethnic.svg
The idea of a distinct Austrian Ethnicity and Nation is of Austro-Fashist origin which saw Austria as the "better Germany" because of the wide spread Catholicism amog other things.:rolleyes:
1938 showed that this ideas wasn't widely accepted.
In 1945 this idea, in combination with the "Hitlers first victim-story" suddenly became quite useful to finally get shot of allied occupation troops later in 1955. From that point on the distinct Austrian Nation/Ethnicity became our reason of state and more and more accepted within the population.
:icon_yes:
Here's my kind of German (she's actually from Luxembourg)
http://justwm.files.wordpress.com/20...rite-cel62.jpg
:thumb001: