RE: Are Calabrese closer to Thessalians or Cypriots? (Eurogenes K15 results posted to show which)

One member claims to me often that Calabrese are closer to Thessaly Greeks than to Cypriots. Here is what Eurogenes K15 says...

It seems highly variable. Some Calabrese are closer to even Lebanese than to Thessalians, others are closer to Thessalians than to Cypriots or Lebanese. Some are closest to Cypriots, then Thessalians, then Lebanese.

On average, Cyprus is a bit closer than Thessaly, and there are indeed outliers who will be closer to Lebanon than to Thessaly but not most.


Cyprus first: 13 out of 22
Thessaly first: 9 out of 22

Lebanon before Thessaly: 6 out of 22

#1: Reggio Calabria
# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 4.98
2 Italian_Jewish 6.26
3 South_Italian 6.78
4 Algerian_Jewish 6.94
5 East_Sicilian 7.53
6 Central_Greek 8.81
7 Tunisian_Jewish 8.87
8 Ashkenazi 9.29
9 West_Sicilian 10.04
10 Italian_Abruzzo 10.59
11 Cyprian 11.26
12 Libyan_Jewish 12.01
13 Greek 14.05
14 Lebanese_Muslim 14.98
15 Syrian 15.25
16 Greek_Thessaly 15.25
17 Tuscan 15.33
18 Samaritan 16.96
19 Turkish 18.36
20 Jordanian 18.48



#2: Reggio Calabria
# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 6.76
2 Algerian_Jewish 7.04
3 Tunisian_Jewish 7.2
4 Italian_Jewish 7.33
5 Cyprian 7.55
6 South_Italian 8.52
7 Libyan_Jewish 9.59
8 East_Sicilian 9.61
9 Ashkenazi 9.97
10 Central_Greek 10.38
11 Lebanese_Muslim 11.75
12 Syrian 12.49
13 West_Sicilian 13.02
14 Samaritan 13.33
15 Italian_Abruzzo 13.67
16 Greek 14.71
17 Jordanian 14.78
18 Lebanese_Christian 15.27
19 Palestinian 15.63
20 Greek_Thessaly 16.03


#3: Catanzaro
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.84
2 Central_Greek 6.15
3 East_Sicilian 6.47
4 Italian_Jewish 7.4
5 Sephardic_Jewish 7.56
6 Ashkenazi 8.18
7 Italian_Abruzzo 8.22
8 Algerian_Jewish 9.26
9 West_Sicilian 9.45
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.75
11 Cyprian 11.35
12 Greek 11.61
13 Greek_Thessaly 12.59
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.12
15 Lebanese_Muslim 14.18
16 Tuscan 14.73
17 Syrian 15.92
18 Turkish 16.12
19 Samaritan 18.1
20 Lebanese_Christian 18.89



#4: Catanzaro
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.98
2 Sephardic_Jewish 6.01
3 Italian_Jewish 7.31
4 Algerian_Jewish 7.9
5 East_Sicilian 8.01
6 Central_Greek 8.37
7 Tunisian_Jewish 9.08
8 West_Sicilian 9.81
9 Ashkenazi 9.86
10 Italian_Abruzzo 10.15
11 Cyprian 10.99
12 Greek 12.54
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.38
14 Lebanese_Muslim 14.45
15 Greek_Thessaly 14.66
16 Tuscan 15.69
17 Syrian 15.89
18 Samaritan 17.24
19 Turkish 17.88
20 Lebanese_Christian 18.53


#5: Catanzaro
# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 6.57
2 South_Italian 7.32
3 Italian_Jewish 8.73
4 Algerian_Jewish 8.79
5 East_Sicilian 9.23
6 West_Sicilian 9.76
7 Central_Greek 9.93
8 Tunisian_Jewish 10.05
9 Italian_Abruzzo 10.5
10 Ashkenazi 11.77
11 Cyprian 12.6
12 Greek 13.85
13 Libyan_Jewish 15.22
14 Tuscan 15.56
15 Lebanese_Muslim 15.98
16 Greek_Thessaly 16.77
17 Syrian 17.26
18 Turkish 17.87
19 Samaritan 19.15
20 Jordanian 20.34


#6: Catanzaro
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Jewish 3.39
2 Algerian_Jewish 4.57
3 Sephardic_Jewish 5.75
4 Tunisian_Jewish 7.83
5 South_Italian 8
6 Libyan_Jewish 8.01
7 East_Sicilian 8.94
8 Ashkenazi 9.37
9 Central_Greek 10
10 West_Sicilian 10.25
11 Cyprian 11.03
12 Italian_Abruzzo 11.97
13 Greek 14.82
14 Greek_Thessaly 15.12
15 Lebanese_Muslim 15.26
16 Samaritan 15.7
17 Syrian 15.78
18 Tuscan 16.2
19 Jordanian 17.24
20 Palestinian 17.41



#7: Crotone
# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 6.27
2 West_Sicilian 6.46
3 Ashkenazi 6.65
4 Central_Greek 6.7
5 South_Italian 7.08
6 Italian_Jewish 7.85
7 Italian_Abruzzo 8.06
8 Greek_Thessaly 8.87
9 Greek 9.15
10 Algerian_Jewish 9.18
11 Sephardic_Jewish 10.01
12 Tuscan 10.65
13 Tunisian_Jewish 13.46
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.61
15 Bulgarian 16.28
16 Cyprian 16.46
17 North_Italian 16.49
18 Romanian 18.18
19 Lebanese_Muslim 20.22
20 Serbian 20.61


#8: Catanzaro
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.79
2 East_Sicilian 6.7
3 Italian_Jewish 6.98
4 Central_Greek 7.37
5 Algerian_Jewish 7.98
6 Sephardic_Jewish 8.7
7 West_Sicilian 9.41
8 Ashkenazi 9.92
9 Italian_Abruzzo 9.93
10 Tunisian_Jewish 11.87
11 Greek 12.61
12 Libyan_Jewish 12.83
13 Greek_Thessaly 12.94
14 Cyprian 13.07
15 Tuscan 13.62
16 Lebanese_Muslim 17.87
17 Syrian 18.7
18 North_Italian 19.73
19 Samaritan 19.73
20 Turkish 20.08


#9: Cosenza
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Jewish 5.05
2 South_Italian 5.31
3 Sephardic_Jewish 5.9
4 East_Sicilian 6.26
5 West_Sicilian 6.93
6 Central_Greek 6.94
7 Italian_Abruzzo 7.22
8 Algerian_Jewish 7.51
9 Ashkenazi 8.34
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.46
11 Tuscan 12.48
12 Libyan_Jewish 12.62
13 Greek 12.66
14 Cyprian 13.23
15 Greek_Thessaly 13.39
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.52
17 Syrian 17.5
18 Turkish 18.8
19 North_Italian 18.9
20 Samaritan 19.29


#10: Cosenza
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.81
2 Central_Greek 5.99
3 East_Sicilian 6.38
4 Ashkenazi 8.27
5 Italian_Jewish 8.76
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.37
7 Sephardic_Jewish 10.07
8 Algerian_Jewish 10.44
9 West_Sicilian 10.78
10 Greek_Thessaly 11.6
11 Greek 11.99
12 Cyprian 12.6
13 Tunisian_Jewish 13.35
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.63
15 Tuscan 14.46
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.42
17 Turkish 16.81
18 Syrian 17.36
19 Bulgarian 19.33
20 Samaritan 19.64


#11: Cosenza
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 3.52
2 East_Sicilian 3.98
3 Central_Greek 4.63
4 Italian_Abruzzo 7
5 West_Sicilian 7.66
6 Ashkenazi 7.68
7 Italian_Jewish 8.48
8 Sephardic_Jewish 8.75
9 Greek 9.47
10 Algerian_Jewish 9.65
11 Greek_Thessaly 10.31
12 Tuscan 11.34
13 Tunisian_Jewish 12.85
14 Cyprian 14.53
15 Libyan_Jewish 15.05
16 Bulgarian 17.14
17 North_Italian 17.73
18 Lebanese_Muslim 18.2
19 Syrian 18.88
20 Turkish 18.88


#12: Reggio Calabria
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.25
2 Central_Greek 6.02
3 East_Sicilian 6.84
4 Italian_Jewish 7.89
5 Ashkenazi 8.16
6 Sephardic_Jewish 8.58
7 Algerian_Jewish 9.26
8 Italian_Abruzzo 9.81
9 Cyprian 10.05
10 West_Sicilian 10.84
11 Tunisian_Jewish 11.48
12 Greek 11.5
13 Greek_Thessaly 12.28
14 Libyan_Jewish 12.9
15 Lebanese_Muslim 14.06
16 Syrian 15.62
17 Turkish 15.75
18 Tuscan 15.79
19 Samaritan 17.51
20 Lebanese_Christian 18.41


#13: Crotone
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Jewish 4.84
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.39
3 South_Italian 5.95
4 Algerian_Jewish 6.02
5 East_Sicilian 8.01
6 Central_Greek 8.17
7 Tunisian_Jewish 8.27
8 Cyprian 8.75
9 Ashkenazi 9.12
10 West_Sicilian 10.19
11 Libyan_Jewish 10.49
12 Italian_Abruzzo 10.68
13 Lebanese_Muslim 13.25
14 Greek 13.42
15 Greek_Thessaly 14.62
16 Syrian 14.76
17 Samaritan 15.47
18 Tuscan 16.35
19 Lebanese_Christian 16.67
20 Jordanian 17.39


#14: Cosenza
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.25
2 East_Sicilian 4.85
3 Central_Greek 5.06
4 Italian_Abruzzo 5.63
5 West_Sicilian 6.21
6 Sephardic_Jewish 7.7
7 Ashkenazi 7.8
8 Italian_Jewish 8.5
9 Greek 9.03
10 Algerian_Jewish 9.6
11 Tuscan 11.16
12 Greek_Thessaly 11.52
13 Tunisian_Jewish 12.35
14 Cyprian 14.55
15 Libyan_Jewish 15.9
16 Bulgarian 16.87
17 North_Italian 17.57
18 Lebanese_Muslim 17.79
19 Turkish 17.9
20 Syrian 18.82



#15: Catanzaro
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.69
2 East_Sicilian 6.78
3 Central_Greek 6.9
4 Sephardic_Jewish 8.23
5 Italian_Jewish 8.67
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.03
7 Ashkenazi 9.26
8 Algerian_Jewish 9.66
9 West_Sicilian 9.89
10 Tunisian_Jewish 11.89
11 Greek 12.05
12 Cyprian 12.08
13 Greek_Thessaly 13.8
14 Tuscan 14.59
15 Libyan_Jewish 14.6
16 Lebanese_Muslim 15.73
17 Turkish 15.79
18 Syrian 16.87
19 Samaritan 19.46
20 Bulgarian 19.94


#16: Reggio Calabria
# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 4.41
2 Central_Greek 5.01
3 South_Italian 5.25
4 Italian_Abruzzo 6.39
5 Ashkenazi 6.84
6 West_Sicilian 7.5
7 Italian_Jewish 7.63
8 Greek_Thessaly 9.48
9 Sephardic_Jewish 9.68
10 Algerian_Jewish 10.06
11 Tuscan 10.48
12 Greek 10.98
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.62
14 Tunisian_Jewish 13.65
15 Cyprian 15.59
16 North_Italian 16.78
17 Bulgarian 17.72
18 Lebanese_Muslim 18.88
19 Romanian 19.33
20 Syrian 19.46


#17: Catanzaro
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 3.78
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.5
3 Italian_Jewish 5.55
4 East_Sicilian 6.08
5 Central_Greek 6.67
6 Algerian_Jewish 6.8
7 West_Sicilian 7.07
8 Italian_Abruzzo 7.79
9 Ashkenazi 8.78
10 Tunisian_Jewish 9.43
11 Greek 11.5
12 Cyprian 12.07
13 Libyan_Jewish 12.88
14 Tuscan 13.33
15 Greek_Thessaly 13.52
16 Lebanese_Muslim 15.79
17 Syrian 17.2
18 Turkish 17.98
19 Samaritan 18.83
20 Bulgarian 19.73



#18: Vibo Valentia
# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 5.66
2 Algerian_Jewish 6.16
3 Italian_Jewish 6.18
4 South_Italian 7.02
5 East_Sicilian 8.25
6 Tunisian_Jewish 8.42
7 Ashkenazi 8.5
8 Central_Greek 8.52
9 Cyprian 9.04
10 West_Sicilian 10.6
11 Libyan_Jewish 11.19
12 Italian_Abruzzo 11.47
13 Greek 12.59
14 Lebanese_Muslim 13.65
15 Greek_Thessaly 14.38
16 Syrian 14.62
17 Samaritan 15.38
18 Tuscan 16.74
19 Lebanese_Christian 17.01
20 Jordanian 17.15


#19: Multiple regions
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.55
2 East_Sicilian 7.68
3 Central_Greek 7.7
4 Sephardic_Jewish 7.75
5 Italian_Jewish 8.19
6 Algerian_Jewish 8.92
7 Cyprian 9.78
8 Ashkenazi 10.05
9 Tunisian_Jewish 10.77
10 Italian_Abruzzo 10.91
11 West_Sicilian 11.52
12 Greek 13.15
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.51
14 Lebanese_Muslim 14.14
15 Greek_Thessaly 14.41
16 Syrian 15.35
17 Turkish 16.36
18 Tuscan 16.39
19 Samaritan 17.11
20 Lebanese_Christian 18.39


#20: Multiple regions
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 6.9
2 Italian_Abruzzo 7.81
3 West_Sicilian 8.01
4 East_Sicilian 8.49
5 Central_Greek 8.69
6 Sephardic_Jewish 9.76
7 Italian_Jewish 10.76
8 Algerian_Jewish 11.36
9 Ashkenazi 12.01
10 Greek 12.13
11 Tuscan 12.2
12 Tunisian_Jewish 14.02
13 Greek_Thessaly 14.93
14 Cyprian 16.22
15 North_Italian 17.99
16 Libyan_Jewish 18.16
17 Turkish 19.01
18 Lebanese_Muslim 19.51
19 Bulgarian 19.61
20 Syrian 20.86


#21: Multiple regions
# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 5.51
2 Central_Greek 5.66
3 South_Italian 5.82
4 Italian_Abruzzo 7.62
5 Ashkenazi 7.99
6 West_Sicilian 8.42
7 Italian_Jewish 8.55
8 Greek_Thessaly 9.94
9 Algerian_Jewish 10.56
10 Sephardic_Jewish 10.78
11 Greek 10.95
12 Tuscan 11.37
13 Libyan_Jewish 14.1
14 Tunisian_Jewish 14.3
15 Cyprian 15.63
16 North_Italian 17.37
17 Bulgarian 17.99
18 Lebanese_Muslim 19.27
19 Turkish 19.64
20 Romanian 19.79

#22: Reggio Calabria
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 2.81
2 East_Sicilian 3.49
3 Central_Greek 4.88
4 Italian_Abruzzo 5.53
5 West_Sicilian 5.71
6 Italian_Jewish 6.32
7 Sephardic_Jewish 7.14
8 Ashkenazi 7.23
9 Algerian_Jewish 8.32
10 Greek 10.52
11 Tuscan 10.55
12 Greek_Thessaly 11.02
13 Tunisian_Jewish 11.47
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.58
15 Cyprian 14.49
16 North_Italian 17.12
17 Lebanese_Muslim 17.69
18 Bulgarian 18
19 Syrian 18.47
20 Turkish 18.92

These people are even less Northern shifted than Sicilians, wow.

Which distances would you define as close/clustering with?

Why was this area so isolated? Are they representative of what the original inhabitants of that area were like before Greek colonisation of southern Italy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teucer

Why was this area so isolated? Are they representative of what the original inhabitants of that area were like before Greek colonisation of southern Italy?

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Calabria?

From the Sarno study, Calabrese Griko speakers show no influence from mainland Greece and are rather isolated in their own cluster, separate from other southern Italians. They have almost no North European/Indo European type DNA. I suspect this is what all of southern Italy was like at one point and the Griko remained isolated.

I think the results here that are closer to Cypriots, are similar to that. They are relatively "pure" far southern Italians.