Is it true that the 'Insular Celts' aren't even really Celtic? I've heard that they're mostly descended from the Bell Beaker people and that only a small number of Celts migrated there.
Does this mean that groups such as Southern Germans, Austrians or even Iberians are actually far more Celtic than them?
Yeah, because nearly all of them speak English as a first language.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedy
No, none of those have any remaining Celtic language or identity, unlike Insular Celts. South Germans do have much more genetic inheritance from Hallstatt/La Tene Celts though, that's presumably why they're so Southern shifted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedy
Celts were a people of central Europe with a specific culture. Apparently the Celts of central Europe / southern Germany were not on the British Isles, but the Celts were not unified and there were separate tribes. Probably the Indo-Europeans who arrived on the British Isles spoke a Western Celtic language, but they were not of the same tribes as the Celts of continental / central Europe. They came to this conclusion because the weapons and styles of other manufactured objects were different.
yes, they are originally from Tver oblast, Cymru - Kimry = one ... thing
https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymru
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimry
The 'Celtic' tribes were not unified. Many separate Indo-European groups spoke 'celtic Western' languages. Celtic is a specific designation for a central European culture that no longer exists. Probably the 'original Celts' were the Celts who bear the name of this central European culture. Central European Celts are obviously not the same as British Islands Celts. Probably Central European Celts carried Germanic R1b, while Indo-Europeans who also spoke a Western Indo-European language (all are called 'Celtics') carry different R1b haplogroups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
Of course, culturally speaking you're right, but genetically though, Southern Germans/Swiss are probably much more Celtic since the Celts were originally from Central Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
I should've clarified that I was talking about genetics.
We don't know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by L.o.l.i.t.a
Wasn't it obvious? Speaking the same linguistic family does not mean being the same people / tribe. What is obvious in the different r1b clades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedy
I think that after spanning a certain geographic distance, "phenotypical" facial features generally change their shape. So, even though there is reason to believe Celts were both in Continental Europe and Scotland/Ireland, and even perhaps culturally the same, I think we are talking a distance so long that characteristically "Celt" features must morph.
For example, look at the wide variety of different facial features found among blondes. Some blondes have big noses, some blondes have small noses, etc. Likewise, I think, we can probably dismiss the idea that those "Kelts" at the north tip of Scotland were "identical" on a physical, genetic level to those Continental Celts/Gauls who historically settled in Galatia, in modern-day Turkey.
No, because those places (Southern Germany and Switzerland) received a lot of Germanic influence. Also, when most people think of Celtic people, they don't really think of Swiss people, they think of Irish/Welsh/Scottish people. Most people have no clue who the Beaker people are, they just think that British people are descended from Celtic and Germanic tribes that migrated to the isles. With the Irish and Welsh being supposedly the purest Celts. I used to think that too btw, so it was pretty interesting to me learning that the 'Insular Celts' have very little actual Celtic ancestry.Quote:
Originally Posted by L.o.l.i.t.a
They are Celtic ( Insular Celtic). The Celts were not a homogeneous group. It is the Bell Beaker type people who brought Indo - European speech in this case Keltic to that part of Europe. Insular Celts have retained certain physical characteristics of Celtic told by ancient writers such pale or very fair skin, light eyes, ginger hair, etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedy
Celtic speech, culture, literature has persisted in this part of Europe than anywhere. If the Irish, Welsh, Scottish are not Celtic than Scandinavians are not Germanic either.