Celtic Paganism Question

As is known, there is perhaps less information on Celtic pagan traditions, especially Continental but even Brythonic compared to the Gaelic, than on Germanic/Norse paganism or the Greco-Roman pagan world. My question is in regards to comparative Indo-European mythology and religion, which group is more useful in learning about the Celts, Latin/Italic paganism or Germanic?

It seems in some strange way the Celts are perhaps the intermediary between the two since its generally accepted that there was once a "Proto-Italo-Celtic" period and the two are linguistically closer, connected by genetics (R1b U152), etc. On the other hand it seems that the Celts and Germans were much more closer in their customs, traditions, way of life, etc. than either were to the Latins or Greco-Romans as the latter often had trouble telling them apart.

So obviously both are useful, but is there some particular way to look at commonalities between all three (pointing to a common Western Indo-European origin) but also see specific connections shared by say the Italics and Celts to point to their own common past vis a vis the Germanics?

Or framed differently, anyone know any good books or works on continental Celtic, Gaulish, and early Italic/Latin/Roman paganism with emphasis on common Indo-European past?

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Originally Posted by Gwydion

Or framed differently, anyone know any good books or works on continental Celtic, Gaulish, and early Italic/Latin/Roman paganism with emphasis on common Indo-European past?

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Not to my knowledge, and I doubt there is very much of anything on this very particular subject. PIE religion is really just a hypothesis rather than an actual reconstruction or something that is directly attested. You'd probably be better off just researching Celtic paganism (or whatever subset thereof you are interested in) directly. A study in comparative religion between the Celtic tradition and another system naturally requires some knowledge of Celtic religion, so you'd be better off going directly to whatever sources there are that pertain to that.

Sadly we haven't lot of written source, the Celts were certainly close to the Germans culturally and religiously, but they were also close to the Greek culture, their gods are very similar. I want to make it clear that we must not mix the Romans with the Greeks. The Romans have robbed the gods and the Greek culture, but their multicultural and imperialist policy is not Indo-European

I think the modern Wicca though the name itself is derived from Anglo Saxon is massivly influenced by Celtic paganism.

Celtic paganism is a complicated subject, but I can give the framework here. Most say it's more like Norse paganism, as many of the gods appear to have a similar role/personality to a Norse god, but most of these claims are disputed. There are a couple broadly Celtic gods, which we can find examples of in almost all groups of Celts, these include:

Lugus (Lugh in irish), perhaps the most well known pan-Celtic god, as well as the most mysterious. Both his name & function are disputed, as some believe his name to mean "the bright one" or "the oath taker/giver" (from Leuceton or Lugion). He often portrayed as being one of three brothers (two in welsh) who belong to the sea, & are incredibly skilled with a spear, & vanquish some great foe (such as Balor in Irish myth). He's sometimes associated with Odin do to the connection with Oaths, ravens, & his spear. He has also been associated with Mercury, & Mithra, & some believe him to have originally been a moon god (related to celtic Lugra "moon") as the moon is a male & the sun female in indo-european myth, & the Greco-romans just switched things up for some reason. He often has the epithet of "long-arm" or "skilled-hand"

Toranos (Tuireann in Irish & Taran in welsh), is the Celtic Thor. His name has the same etymology, stemming from the old indo-european word for "thunderer". He rides a horse, carries a wheel as a shield or representation of thunder, & throws his lightning javelins at demon, or the earth, fertilizing it with storms. In Irish myth, his role has been diminished to the father of the Irish character Brian, who goes on a great adventure. In welsh myth, his role has been further diminished to just being a warrior that followed Bran the blessed to battle in Ireland. Make no mistake though, in old pre-christian times, he would've been revered a protector from demons & a fertility god. The eastern Gauls also called him Lo(u)cetios literally "lightninger"

Belinos (Beli Mawr in welsh) is a light/sun god. He isn't represented very often, but when he is, it's as a sort of founding kingly figure, as in welsh literature. Personally I think he's a devolved version of the indo-european sky father god, similar to Tyr's situation in Norse myth. As I stated previously that the sun is female in indo-european myth, often even being the Sky-father's personified eye. This role would've been take by Sulis, who was associated with Minerva, & best known for the bath houses in her dedication in Britain. Belinos's name could mean "the bright/shining one" or "the one who is the source of the well."

Noudents (Nuada in Irish, Nudd or Lludd in welsh) is a god often described as having a silver arm or hand (Nuada of the silver arm, Nudd of the silver hand). He is often portrayed as an early, noble king of the gods, & could also be the indo-european sky father. JRR Tolkien suggested his name was related to an old Germanic root for "to catch" which might imply that his epithet originally just meant he was a skilled huntsman or fisher, & it became literal over time. Statues of him have been found in roman Britain with hounds & tritons, associating him with the sea. He's also been associated with the roman god Silvanus, connecting back to the hunting theme. He is sometimes associated with the Norse Tyr, do to them both being in similar roles of justice givers with arms that were cut off, but these claims are disputed.

Brigantia (Brigid in Irish) is one of the most important goddesses of Celtic myth. She is often depicted like Minerva, & in Irish myth is said to be a smith & a healer. These facts means that she is quite connected to the aspects of wisdom & holiness in Celtic myth. She was so popular in Ireland, that rather than abandoning her worship, they made her Saint Brigid. Many suggest that she is connected to the indo-european dawn goddess, with her fiery red hair, & her often being the daughter of the Irish chief god Dagda. Her name means "the high one" & devotional inscriptions to her have also been found in Iberia.

Sucellos/Dagodewos (Dagda in Irish) meaning "the good striker" or "the good god" in that order, may or may not be one god. Both Sucellos & Dagda are bearded, older men with a large striking weapon & drinking/eating vessel (olla or cauldron) & are associated with fertility. Many have suggested that Sucellos is the "Dis Pater" the Gauls worshiped according to Julius Caesar. This associates him with death & the roman Hades, despite him being a fertility god. This may make sense however as Dagda's club is described as "being able to kill a man with one end, & revive him with the other." & Dagda is described as having sex with the Morrigan (death, raven goddess) ever Samhain. Sucellos's wife Nantosuelta is often described as a war/death goddess as well.

Ogmios (Ogma in Irish) is a mysterious god associated with language. A classic roman author describes the Gaulish Ogmios, as being eloquent, & like an older Hercules. In irish myth, he invents the Ogham script, and is also portrayed holding a club. He is often invoked in curse tablets, & his name may have a connection to an indo-european word for "path, road" which has led some to suggest that he's a psychopomp (a god that leads the dead to the underworld).

? (Manannan in Irish & Manawydan in welsh) is an interesting god. He is often associated with the sea, & in Irish myth is a semi-trickster god, as well as a war god & Lugh's foster father. His name's etymology is connected to that of the Isle of Man, & in both myths his name includes "son of the sea" (mac Lir, fab Llyr). He is the father of Cliobna in Irish myth, & the father-in-law of Cigfa in Welsh myth, both of which have been suggested to be related the obscure Gaulish goddess Klutonda

there are also various goddesses that could all be related to the indo-european cow-goddess/sky-father's consort. These include the Irish Boann, & the Gaulish Damona & Đerna.

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Originally Posted by SuperDorian

I think the modern Wicca though the name itself is derived from Anglo Saxon is massivly influenced by Celtic paganism.

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Well, Celtic myth through the eyes of someone who has no idea what Celtic myth was actually like

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Originally Posted by Noff

How about Cernunnos?

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A controversial figure, most agree that Cernunnos is a Celtic reflection of the indo-european god Pan came from, and may be in someway connected to Lugus.
Some think he’s an underworld god with the antlered snake in one hand representing death and the bag of coins or torc representing life, and in the same way that pan was originally a guardian of pathways and there by commerce, before having those attributes taken by Hermes, so to would Cernunnos have those roles, his name means “horned-one” and has only been attested in one stone carving and may or may not refer to the same god famously portrayed on the Gundestrap cauldron.
He may be reflected in Irish mythology as the mortal brother of CuChulainn named Conall Cernach (notice the similarity between Cernunnos and Cernach, with Cernach likely meaning “horned”, and would’ve been Cern(n)âcos in Gaulish). Conall Cernach having encountered a snake that was meant to kill him but instead willingly became his belt, similar to a Cernunnos like statue found around the Rhine, that has a snake belt.