R1a-Z280>CTS1211>CTS3402>L336 in Balkans

For starters, I made a similar post like this not too long ago, so mods feel free to remove. I want to discuss the possible implications of my haplogroup as an Albanian after getting my Y-67 test back. What I don't want is another Albanian-Serb conflict so let's keep it on topic this time.

23andme revealed my dad's haplogroup to be R-CTS3402. My FTDNA test has R-M198 as my "predicted haplogroup." After looking at my STRs I am most likely under R-L336, which is ~2k years old.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L366/ YFULL shows 4 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 2 Turks, 1 Bulgar, 1 Pole, and 1 German.

I am a Kosovar-Albanian from Opoja region and my dad, grandpa, great grandpa, great-great grandpa, and great-great-great grandpa were all born there.

I guess my question is how I ended up with this haplo? Was it really a slav, or probably another carrier like the old Hunnish samples who were carriers of R-CTS1211 as well. I do plan on upgrading to the Big Y next, but I am curious on what the possible hypothesis are. Or any information on R-L366 in general would be much help.

Many thanks.

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Originally Posted by ANXIETY (ADEPT)

For starters, I made a similar post like this not too long ago, so mods feel free to remove. I want to discuss the possible implications of my haplogroup as an Albanian after getting my Y-67 test back. What I don't want is another Albanian-Serb conflict so let's keep it on topic this time.

23andme revealed my dad's haplogroup to be R-CTS3402. My FTDNA test has R-M198 as my "predicted haplogroup." After looking at my STRs I am most likely under R-L336, which is ~2k years old.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L366/ YFULL shows 4 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 2 Turks, 1 Bulgar, 1 Pole, and 1 German.

I am a Kosovar-Albanian from Opoja region and my dad, grandpa, great grandpa, great-great grandpa, and great-great-great grandpa were all born there.

I guess my question is how I ended up with this haplo? Was it really a slav, or probably another carrier like the old Hunnish samples who were carriers of R-CTS1211 as well. I do plan on upgrading to the Big Y next, but I am curious on what the possible hypothesis are. Or any information on R-L366 in general would be much help.

Many thanks.

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In all probability it arrived with Slavs. Likely Bulgarians and not Serbs. Serbs like to assume any Slavs in Kosove were Serb, but Bulgar empire left traces in Opoje as well. However, your ancestor could have been Albanian for centuries or a millenia. Or maybe not. It all depends in what your bigy will show for now.

You have a few options you can take. Some cost effective ones may work. I would contact the admin at Rrenjet who created a panel test for this purpose which will keep testing you for all known SNPs in your branch. If you're positive branches already on the tree, depending on age it will give you an idea of how close you are to the samples on the tree. If you remain basal L366, or match a SNP already on the tree, you can upgrade to bigy to determine if you form a younger subclade.

If after a bigy you have no close matches, it either means your non-Albanian matches haven't been tested or your ancestor was assimilated in the early medieval. They best indicator would be to form a clade with other Albanians. And depending how close they all are you can have an idea how long the haplotype was Albanian for. That could take time.

My haplotype under R1a-L1029 for instance is an Albanian one so far only found in Albanians with a common ancestor between 1100-1300 years. So my line eas likely Albanized in the early medieval and had a founder effect with Albanians.

No Slavs confirmed yet but there's Estonians and a German further up(who's not on yfull) that form their own branches.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y133367/

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Originally Posted by GalenStark

In all probability it arrived with Slavs. Likely Bulgarians and not Serbs. Serbs like to assume any Slavs in Kosove were Serb, but Bulgar empire left traces in Opoje as well. However, your ancestor could have been Albanian for centuries or a millenia. Or maybe not. It all depends in what your bigy will show for now.

You have a few options you can take. Some cost effective ones may work. I would contact the admin at Rrenjet who created a panel test for this purpose which will keep testing you for all known SNPs in your branch. If you're positive branches already on the tree, depending on age it will give you an idea of how close you are to the samples on the tree. If you remain basal L366, or match a SNP already on the tree, you can upgrade to bigy to determine if you form a younger subclade.

If after a bigy you have no close matches, it either means your non-Albanian matches haven't been tested or your ancestor was assimilated in the early medieval. They best indicator would be to form a clade with other Albanians. And depending how close they all are you can have an idea how long the haplotype was Albanian for. That could take time.

My haplotype under R1a-L1029 for instance is an Albanian one so far only found in Albanians with a common ancestor between 1100-1300 years. So my line eas likely Albanized in the early medieval and had a founder effect with Albanians.

No Slavs confirmed yet but there's Estonians and a German further up(who's not on yfull) that form their own branches.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y133367/

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Since I made this post I have already upgraded to big Y and I am waiting on results. Would I still need the SNP pack after my Bigy comes back? Also what is the meaning of basal when you say basal L366

Looking at it it came with Slavs but you need to do another big Y test to determine what clade further https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L366/ , there is also now one Montenigrin and one Serb under some of the clades. I see under a clade with one Serb there is one Albanian R-FTC25856 , is that you ?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FTC25856/ TMRCA 1350 YBP , the Serb is from Nish and the Albanian is a Gheg. He could be originally from Kosovo, there are some other I2a1b shared with Serbs from Kosovo.

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Originally Posted by ANXIETY (ADEPT)

For starters, I made a similar post like this not too long ago, so mods feel free to remove. I want to discuss the possible implications of my haplogroup as an Albanian after getting my Y-67 test back. What I don't want is another Albanian-Serb conflict so let's keep it on topic this time.

23andme revealed my dad's haplogroup to be R-CTS3402. My FTDNA test has R-M198 as my "predicted haplogroup." After looking at my STRs I am most likely under R-L336, which is ~2k years old.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L366/ YFULL shows 4 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 2 Turks, 1 Bulgar, 1 Pole, and 1 German.

I am a Kosovar-Albanian from Opoja region and my dad, grandpa, great grandpa, great-great grandpa, and great-great-great grandpa were all born there.

I guess my question is how I ended up with this haplo? Was it really a slav, or probably another carrier like the old Hunnish samples who were carriers of R-CTS1211 as well. I do plan on upgrading to the Big Y next, but I am curious on what the possible hypothesis are. Or any information on R-L366 in general would be much help.

Many thanks.

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I don´t know about Z282 but there is a full branch of Z280 with just Albanians in Yfull:

https://i.postimg.cc/7LL5B4dn/Z282alb.png

Using SNPs coincidences my closest match is a German with a Z280>Yp5000>Y45355 (my subclade) but when I uploaded my BAM to Y full I have one of those Albanian samples as STRs closest match.

https://i.postimg.cc/RhYd0Gtj/z280match.png

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Originally Posted by gixajo

I don´t know about Z282 but there is a full branch of Z280 with just Albanians in Yfull:

https://i.postimg.cc/7LL5B4dn/Z282alb.png

Using SNPs coincidences my closest match is a German with a Z280>Yp5000>Y45355 (my subclade) but when I uploaded my BAM to Y full I have one of those Albanian samples as STRs closest match.

https://i.postimg.cc/RhYd0Gtj/z280match.png

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Interesting. How you think this Y-DNA spread ?

Opoja was an Albanian region according to the Ottoman register of 1571, there were Muslim Albanians and Christian Albanians but there were also Slavs among them.

Here I have taken a screenshot for some of the villages:

Spoiler!

https://i.postimg.cc/7LvHHJ8q/Opoja1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/xCSW-7Krb/opoja3.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/pVQ22LqH/opoja2.jpg

You did not tell us what village you are from. There were far more Muslims in Opoja that had Albanian names than Slavic names. Also the Christians bore Albanian names.

This entire region was Islamised eventually like good part of Kosovo so not sure what Serb-Albanian conflict you are talking about considering Serbs are mainly Orthodox . You did not tell us what village you come from. Your ancestors could of been Albanians for millennials just like that foreigner from the middle east that had the surname 'Arnaut' meaning Albanian but tested R1a (where there are also Albanians that fall under) . You prossibly descendant from the old Albanian families that lived there. Or you could be from the Slavs that became Albanians as there were also reports of Slavic Muslims in the area in the 18th-19th century or so.