Ethnoreligious Atlas of Europe

[Rudel]

What the fuck is this ? What has iberian anything to do with oriental languages ?

Carthaginian colonies, Carthage being itself a Phoenician colony.

The Breton language speakers exists on the area in considerable number. And you dispute the accurate number too, so I depicted their existence only.

Breton speakers exist, not in a considerable number.

At least it should be so by any real defender of the European ethnicities.

You can't draw maps out of wishful thinking. You can't just affirm borders of cultural spread just because you want to defend such and such ethnicity through representations, that invalidates the maps altogether.

Otherwise we'd end up regarding any district with a high concentration of foreign speakers as a linguistic exclave.

That's what they are. Blocks of big cities were the majority language isn't that of the host nation are as much linguistic exclaves as Catalan villages of Sardinia.

[Comte Arnau]

Phoenician colonisation and cultural influence in the Western Mediterranean region. Nothing new, Iberia never formed an isolated civilization, the strong commercial contacts joined it to the Mediterranean parts of the Oriental civilizations. The South Iberaian region's oriental contacts were stronger than all other contacts. This existed since the neolithic already and expanded on a much bigger area, but the Celtic and other Indo-European conquest pressed the original oriental influented folks back onto the coasts before the Romans arrived.

Phoenician colonies were colonies, Iberians were not Phoenicians. You could have said they were Greek for the same price.

Influence and trade are not what make the foundations of an ethnicity. That'd be like saying that the whole world is part of the Western civilization.

[Comte Arnau]

Carthaginian colonies, Carthage being itself a Phoenician colony.

Built upon previous Iberian settlement, but not Iberian itself.

You can't draw maps out of wishful thinking. You can't just affirm borders of cultural spread just because you want to defend such and such ethnicity through representations, that invalidates the maps altogether.

The concept of linguistic territory exists, whether one agrees with it or not.

That's what they are. Blocks of big cities were the majority language isn't that of the host nation are as much linguistic exclaves as Catalan villages of Sardinia.

Catalans ousted all Genoese speakers from the town.

[blogen]

Phoenician colonies were colonies, Iberians were not Phoenicians. You could have said they were Greek for the same price.
Influence and trade are not what make the foundations of an ethnicity. That'd be like saying that the whole world is part of the Western civilization.

What etnicity? They had a common civilization, nothing more, nothing less. [Southern] Iberia is a transitional area between East and West. [Southern] Iberia, North Africa, Southern Italy and the Western Mediterranean islands is the western periphery of the Oriens and the sea was the contact between the two areas in the ancient times (the Egyptian civilization existed yet between the two areas then). This was the situation in the neolithic era, in the bronze age, in the Carthagian times, in the Arab times and this is the situation now, but meanwhile the Arabs eliminated the Egyptian culture from the lower course of the Nile (to the Sahel and Etiopian area), so now the continental contact was continuous because of this.



And not the Phoenicians or the Minoans were the first Oriental colinists in the Western Mediterraneum: Radiocarbon evidence for maritime pioneer colonization at the origins of farming in west Mediterranean Europe

[Scholarios]

Very good maps and fun to look at. One tiny correction, the Melingoi Slavs in Peloponesse were a bit South of this location on the edge of Mani Peninsula in Lakonia:

[blogen]

Very good maps and fun to look at. One tiny correction, the Melingoi Slavs in Peloponesse were a bit South of this location on the edge of Mani Peninsula in Lakonia:

Thanks, I know this from them:

"Only gradually were new inland dioceses re-established all over Greece. It has been calculated that there were not above twenty-five all told down to the reign of Leo VI (886-912). Of these about ten were in the Peloponnese. By then only a few pockets of unabsorbed and probably still pagan Slavs remained in the less accessible mountains, for example the Ezeritai and Milingi of the Taygetos range. As late as the 920s Romanos I revised the taxes, or tribute, which they were paying. These and no doubt some other small clans were not absorbed into the Greek population for a long time. Their alien character was still obvious to the Frankish masters of the Morea in the thirteenth century, when William Villehardouin built castles to control them. Some were still distinct in the fifteenth century."
source: A. P. Vlasto: The entry of the Slavs into Christendom - Cambridge University Press, 1970

So they existed yet in the thirteenth century, but I got confused the direction of the Taigetos. Not Northeast from Spartba, but Southwest.

[Scholarios]

that's correct... maybe a minor point compared to all the work you have done, but I thought worth mentioning for "future editions"

[blogen]

There will be a corrected second version after the correction of the mistakes like this.

[Ibericus]

Phoenician colonisation and cultural influence in the Western Mediterranean region. Nothing new, Iberia never formed an isolated civilization, the strong commercial contacts joined it to the Mediterranean parts of the Oriental civilizations. The South Iberaian region's oriental contacts were stronger than all other contacts. This existed since the neolithic already and expanded on a much bigger area, but the Celtic and other Indo-European conquest pressed the original oriental influented folks back onto the coasts before the Romans arrived.

What are you talking about...they had phenocian influences yes, but Iberian languages and culture were related to Basque, had nothing to do with oriental civilizations.

[Peyrol]

500AD

That's false for Britain.
Romano-britannic language was overspread in all south-east England.