Should Ukraine and Belarus be part of the Russian Federation?

[arcticwolf]

There are too many countries today, I approve.

Russia gets Belarus+East Ukraine+Crimea. West Ukraine goes to whoever wants to take care of that mess. Ideally Poland Lithuania

I wouldn't mind union with Ukraine, if both people would support it. They are our brothers and sisters, almost the same genetics. They won't be a mess for long, they are smart and resourceful.

[Swearengen]

Ukraine oppressed? You must be insane. Modern day Ukraine and Southern Russia are the only territories in Europe where serfdom never existed. Sich had a hard life being located between major powers like Poland, Russia and Crimea but they manage quite well and even beat mighty Ottomans on a few occasions. Their unification with Russian Empire was voluntary and was a reasonable choice: while being very successful military entity, Sich had no developed governing structure to become fully functional competitive state. They had to join someone else to gain it. And they did quite well considering the fact that Cossacks were free men for as long as Russian Empire lasted. Which is the main reason why so many of them joined Nazis in WWII, they were loyal to Royal family and were hoping to restore Empire. They hated Commies, not Russians. That is the confusion many use nowadays to manipulate the facts. But guess what: USSR =/= Russia. Deal with it.

Anyway all the fuss with Ukrainians hating Russians is highly exagerrated. Only the Western Ukraine (very small minority) hates Russians, the rest is just don't care for most part. You must be one of those runaway Ukrainian Jews who hate Russia with passion

this is also highly inaccurate.

In the mid-17th century, a Cossack military quasi-state, the Zaporozhian Host, was established by the Dnieper Cossacks and the Ruthenian peasants fleeing Polish serfdom.[39] Poland had little real control of this land, yet they found the Cossacks to be a useful fighting force against the Turks and Tatars,[40] and at times the two allied in military campaigns.[41] However, the continued enserfment of peasantry by the Polish nobility, emphasized by the Commonwealth's fierce exploitation of the workforce, and most importantly, the suppression of the Orthodox Church pushed the allegiances of Cossacks away from Poland.[40]

..The serf-turned-national-poet Taras Shevchenko

Lithuanians and Poles controlled vast estates in Ukraine, and were a law unto themselves. Judicial rulings from Cracow were routinely flouted, while peasants were heavily taxed and practically tied to the land as serfs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine

[Zmey Gorynych]

What about Ukraine and Belarus I have nothing to say, but Moldova (including the entire border of Transnistria, from north to south) should join România as quickly as possible. One people without borders

Not going to happen (and it shouldn't happen). Transnistria is inhabited primarily by slavs and will eventually secede (formally, because they've been de facto independent for quite a while). If there's no change of power in Moldova in the next 5 years, Russia will officially recognize Transnistria. It's debatable whether Romania and Moldova will reunite, recent geopolitical developments would suggest that this scenario is possible (not sure how probable though).

As long as Romania gives Transylvania back to Hungary. Otherwise there'd be incoherent double standards.

Moldova is an independent (relatively independent) state inhabited by moldovan romanians (80+ % if we're not counting Transnistria), Transylvania is part of Romania and it's inhabited by romanians (70+ % of total transylvanian population). Where's the double standard, Pedro !?

I think that Moldavans are just Slavs that got Vlachized (the old term for Romanian).

I think you don't think.

The West is part of their history since centuries. The Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth or the Austrian Empire is their past. They are partially integrated to the Western world and the Soviet brainwashing was not able to modify this, so there is no chance!

This is my assumption about the future, this is the real maximum of the Russian influence sphere in Europe:

Unless Lukshenko hits the bucket and is replaced by a pro-western democratic regime, Belarus' integration in Russia at the moment is more probable than that of south-eastern Ukraine. If Ukraine is divided (which is a far-fetched scenario) forget about independent Ukraine being a buffer state, they'd be integrated in Europe immediately. My guess is that Ukraine and Belarus will stay as they are (in the russian sphere of influence). The only change that I can envisage in this part of the world is Moldova, which will lose Transnistria and move into the european sphere of influence.

[Sarmatian]

this is also highly inaccurate.

In the mid-17th century, a Cossack military quasi-state, the Zaporozhian Host, was established by the Dnieper Cossacks and the Ruthenian peasants fleeing Polish serfdom.[39] Poland had little real control of this land, yet they found the Cossacks to be a useful fighting force against the Turks and Tatars,[40] and at times the two allied in military campaigns.[41] However, the continued enserfment of peasantry by the Polish nobility, emphasized by the Commonwealth's fierce exploitation of the workforce, and most importantly, the suppression of the Orthodox Church pushed the allegiances of Cossacks away from Poland.[40]

..The serf-turned-national-poet Taras Shevchenko

Lithuanians and Poles controlled vast estates in Ukraine, and were a law unto themselves. Judicial rulings from Cracow were routinely flouted, while peasants were heavily taxed and practically tied to the land as serfs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine

Well I phrased it wrong I guess. Better way to describe it: there are territories in Ukraine and Southern Russia in which serfdom never existed. But you're correct, it doesn't include entire Ukraine.

[Szegedist]

Border with Russia? No thanks.

[Sarmatian]

...
Unless Lukshenko hits the bucket and is replaced by a pro-western democratic regime, Belarus' integration in Russia at the moment is more probable than that of south-eastern Ukraine. If Ukraine is divided (which is a far-fetched scenario) forget about independent Ukraine being a buffer state, they'd be integrated in Europe immediately. My guess is that Ukraine and Belarus will stay as they are (in the russian sphere of influence). The only change that I can envisage in this part of the world is Moldova, which will lose Transnistria and move into the european sphere of influence.

Split of Ukraine is very possible reality in some near future. Western part of it is way too anti-Russian while Eastern and Southern parts are too pro-Russian. While the country is hanging in between both sides are more or less content with the situation. But as soon as there will be too much movement one way or another there will be increased tensions which will lead to collapse of the country. There is no unity between Ukrainians and it's impossible today.

[Szegedist]

West Ukraine should become the Hungarian province of Lodoméria like it was in the good old times. Hungaria str0nk!

On a serious note, perhaps Galicia and Volhyn could become a separate state.

[Sarmatian]

West Ukraine should become the Hungarian province of Lodoméria like it was in the good old times. Hungaria str0nk!

On a serious note, perhaps Galicia and Volhyn could become a separate state.

The question is can they be self sufficient? Most of the big industry of Ukraine concentrated in the East of the country.

[DeaththeKid]

On the BBC they were interviewing people from East Ukraine and one woman said "If I were the President I would kick out all the protestors and unite with Russia and Putin". Though I don't know if she actually meant joining Russia or just siding with them. They also interviewed the mayor of the town who is worried that in a year he may need a passport to travel to West Ukraine because the country will split.

The eastern part of the country is the productive part yet the western part is always complaining.

[Corvus]

I have heard different views. My conclusion. Russians regard Ukranians as brothers. Not all Ukranians reciprocate this love though.
But some do it. This country is kind of splitted with a West/East division.
Anyway the Ukranian identity is kind of artificial. Most Ukranians do not even speak Ukranian, preconditioned this can be considered an own language at all. Its more a dialect I assume.
The situation is comparable to Germany/Austria, even though with more geopolitical implications at the moment.