Are Scandinavians really Slavs?

[Windischer]

I read somewhere maybe actually here that they did afew times. However they constantly fought coassacks or some other group in that region. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Varangian_routes.png

those were trading routes. like, they brought blonde girls from north and traded them around caspian for silk and stuff

[SobieskisavedEurope]

No. But we where all very closely related few thousands year ago as archaelogical findings suggest. Back than people from Scandinavia were not Germanic speakers yet.

True!

Prehistoric Scandinavians were closest to Poland by DNA!

http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2012...netically.html

Prehistoric Scandinavians genetically most similar to modern Poles

Scientists from Uppsala University have managed to extract genome-wide markers from the early Neolithic remains of three hunter-gatherers and one farmer from southern Sweden. They only pulled a few thousand SNPs from each sample, but that was enough to successfully compare the ancient remains to modern Europeans. The results of their study, published in Science Magazine today, reveal that Poles top the allele sharing list with the the hunter-gatherers. Interestingly, Poles also show higher allele-sharing with the farmer than Swedes do, but not as high as Cypriots and Greeks. The figure below illustrates this clearly.

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Well, R1a that is found in the Scandinavia is mostly an R1a-Z284(with some L664 and a minute quantities of rather Balto-Slavic Z280 and strongly Slavic M458)
Let's try to sum up a few things.

Z284, Z280 and M458 derive from R1a-Z282.



Therefore we can go into a conclusion, that R1a-Z282 (along with R1a-Z283) was quite widespread at the timebeing of a Corded Ware Culture



Of course there were probably other kinds of R1a that time but with less widespread - more regional distribution (R1a-Z280xZ92xCTS1211 seems to be old, probably also R1a-Z92* and some other clades that are relatively rare or extinct today-M458*?).

So there's the connection, that has roughly 4000 years itself. The language they spoke would rather be unintelligible to modern people.
However, we can boldly assume that they spoke some kind of a satem Indo-European language which was ancestral to both Baltic and Slavic languages.

Cordedware is likely the origins of Indo-Europeans in Europe!

I suspect that Cordedware spoke a Balto-Slavic language & as they mixed with non-Indo-Europeans languages like Germanic, Celtic, Romance etc came about.

I also suspect that the original Indo-Europeans across Eurasia were closest to Lithuanians by language & genetics from India to West Europe before mongrelization with non-Indo-Europeans came about!

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Exactly. Lappids and Alpines look pretty much the same and were actually considered the same type in some anthropological works (Jan Czekanowski for example). They're both short, stocky, dark and have round paedomorphic face and brachycephalic skull.

This German guy can pass as a Saami:


Did you know, that Finns are taller than Germans on average?

Jan Czekanowski's ideal of Alpinids being Lappoid + Armenoid seems to be supported by this genetic map.



We can note three genetic clusters in this map.

1. Upper right being Finno-Ugric
2. Bottom right being Indo-European
3. Left being Near-Eastern

We can note how Switzerland is near the near eastern Armenoids on the left but pushes up towards Kuusamo Finland which is like the Saami.

Suggesting that the Swiss have Armenoid - Lappoid mixture

Also what is suggested is that Finland & Estonia is a mix of Indo-European & Lappoid mixture.

[Argang]

Jan Czekanowski's ideal of Alpinids being Lappoid + Armenoid seems to be supported by this genetic map.



We can note three genetic clusters in this map.

1. Upper right being Finno-Ugric
2. Bottom right being Indo-European
3. Left being Near-Eastern

We can note how Switzerland is near the near eastern Armenoids on the left but pushes up towards Kuusamo Finland which is like the Saami.

Suggesting that the Swiss have Armenoid - Lappoid mixture

Also what is suggested is that Finland & Estonia is a mix of Indo-European & Lappoid mixture.

Swiss are not "lappoid", and that MDS is not really indicative of "lappoid" or siberian ancestry since siberians are not included.

As explained by Polako, the Finnish cluster is caused mostly by genetic drift and isolation, Kuusamo at the extreme since it's one of the most isolated populations of Europe alongside Sardinians etc so they cluster far away. The MDS is not at all related to physical anthropology.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2009/0...es-within.html

It's also demonstrated in this MDS plot (also from Eurogenes). Notice that Erzya and Moksha, who are finno-ugrics from Volga (and like North Russians have eastern ancestry) cluster with Russians and Lithuanians.



Indo-Europeans and whatnot are a recent phenomenon, and as we already know that the mesolithic hunter-gatherers (speaking an unknown language) predating them were genetically like extreme northeast europeans, there is no reason to suggest the various north european components in calculators (edit. or clusters in PCA/MDS plots) represent proto-indo-europeans, proto-uralics or any current ethno-linguistic group.

Basically what the dimensions in these two plots represent are the same. X-axis = "North euro - South euro", Y-axis = "North Finnish drift - South Baltic drift".

[Artek]

Are you saying my statement is not true?

Germanic people, therefore indoeuropeans were from the steppe too, to one extent or another. More than a half of Scandinavian male lineages are from the steppe.

[Swarthy_Syndicate]

I feel like Scandinavians are almost like pseudo-Slavs sometimes. They often use their actors to portray Slavs, such as Dolph Lundgren in Rocky, and some of their own actors, like Michael Nyqvist, have a very pseudo-Russian look. I'd say many lighter Slavic groups are genetically the closest to Scandinavians. Especially in Sweden, a lot of their phenotypes can pass very easily in countries like Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc.

[Chocolate_Hound]

Nah Scandinavians aren't Slavs. They are Germanics. They have that Western mentality - the robotic discipline/organization/orderly society. Slavs are more rugged, laid-back, and sloppier.

[HelpOswald]

They are closest to indigenous Balkanites I haplogroup hunters and gatherers. I'd say they're a bit closer to Germanics than to Slavs.

[TheMaestro]

Yes those R halogroup people are all Asian mongols.