Actual Importance of Haplogroups

[Äijä]

Except that Y DNA has more genetic change than non-Y DNA. Take the chimpanzee Y chromosome for example, it differs a staggering 30% with the human Y chromosome and that's likely to be a conservative estimate. One would expect that 15-30% of racial differences can be explained by Y haplogroup, and in the case of prolonged racial admixture this could be as high as 100%.

This being the case we'd expect 20th century racial maps to match early 21th century haplogroup maps. Lets have a look.

Attachment 52328

Attachment 52329

We'll have to assume some margin of error due to poor sampling size, even then the maps are mostly identical.

R1b matches the Western race (light blue) R1a matches the East Baltic race. N1 matches the Mongolian race. J2 and J1 are well matched.

I1 matches the Nordic race. I2b matches the Phalian sub-race. I2a matches the Dinaric race.

The only anomaly is E1 which appears to be grouped together with R1b. There is mention of a "hither asiatic" race however which appears to match E1.

What's really interesting is the match in Western Norway.

The only logical explanation is that 1) The similarities are pure coincedence 2) That haplogroups correlate with racial groups 3) That the Y chromosome influences skull shape.

The truth is likely a combination of 2 and 3.

How does N1c match with Mongolian race?
99% of Finns, Estonians and Balts are marked as Nordic or East Baltid in the race map.

[Void]

How does N1c match with Mongolian race?
99% of Finns, Estonians and Balts are marked as Nordic or East Baltid in the race map.

West Finland is marked as Nordic, which matches the 1925 map. North Finland is marked as "Mongolian" which matches. The 2010 map is based on a sample size of 100 people and should be considered a very rough estimate. I have no idea what the sample sizes for the 1922 map was.

Estonia has 20% I 30% N and 30% R1a, either poor sampling is at fault here, or Gunther's measurements are inaccurate, or whoever measured skulls for him in Estonia was biased toward "Nordic" results. Alternatively the Russians got rid of a lot of Nordics after WW2. The Nazis had a tendency to recruit Nordics for their military as well, and Russia killed most POWs as far as I know.

We're looking at two imperfect maps here however, but there's an obvious correlation.

[Äijä]

West Finland is marked as Nordic, which matches the 1925 map. North Finland is marked as "Mongolian" which matches. The 2010 map is based on a sample size of 100 people and should be considered a very rough estimate. I have no idea what the sample sizes for the 1922 map was.

Estonia has 20% I 30% N and 30% R1a, either poor sampling is at fault here, or Gunther's measurements are inaccurate, or whoever measured skulls for him in Estonia was biased toward "Nordic" results. Alternatively the Russians got rid of a lot of Nordics after WW2. The Nazis had a tendency to recruit Nordics for their military as well, and Russia killed most POWs as far as I know.

We're looking at two imperfect maps here however, but there's an obvious correlation.

No there is not.

[Void]

No there is not.

There obviously is as the areas with the highest concentration of N1 overlap. For additional reference I checked Rassenkundes Europas by Gunther where he states the following about Inner Asiatics (named Mongolian in the map).

"There is sometimes in Norway, as also in Sweden, a dash of Inner Asiatic blood in the non-Lappish population." (Not shown in the map, but acknowledged here.)

"If we except the districts settled by Lapps and Finns, to whom, as in Norway, a certain Inner Asiatic and East Baltic strain in the population is due, Sweden is perhaps still more Nordic than Norway, and, therefore, the relatively purest Nordic land of all." (Once again correct, Lapps are primarily N1, I1, and R1a, and Sweden has the highest percentage of I1.)

"Owing to the likeness between East Baltic and Inner Asiatic bodily characters it will often be hard to fix a sharp boundary between these two races." (This might explain some of the confusion.)

"Inner Asiatic blood shows itself as a more or less strong admixture all over the east of Europe." (General acknowledgement that it's there though not shown on the map.)

Mentions of Hither Asiatics (most likely E1) are interesting as well.

"The two races which are, so to say, the foundation of the Jewish nation are, as was said above, the Hither Asiatic and the Oriental." (Which would be E1 and J1)

"Greece is predominantly Mediterranean (Mediterranean-Hither Asiatic-Dinaric)" (R1b E1 I2 which is close enough I guess?)

"The Spaniards have always been astonished at the likeness of their Berber foes in Morocco with themselves. In all these regions of north-west Africa, however, there are found also Oriental, Negro, and (especially, it would seem, in Algeria and Morocco) Hither Asiatic strains."

[Longbowman]

There obviously is as the areas with the highest concentration of N1 overlap. For additional reference I checked Rassenkundes Europas by Gunther where he states the following about Inner Asiatics (named Mongolian in the map).

"There is sometimes in Norway, as also in Sweden, a dash of Inner Asiatic blood in the non-Lappish population." (Not shown in the map, but acknowledged here.)

"If we except the districts settled by Lapps and Finns, to whom, as in Norway, a certain Inner Asiatic and East Baltic strain in the population is due, Sweden is perhaps still more Nordic than Norway, and, therefore, the relatively purest Nordic land of all." (Once again correct, Lapps are primarily N1, I1, and R1a, and Sweden has the highest percentage of I1.)

"Owing to the likeness between East Baltic and Inner Asiatic bodily characters it will often be hard to fix a sharp boundary between these two races." (This might explain some of the confusion.)

"Inner Asiatic blood shows itself as a more or less strong admixture all over the east of Europe." (General acknowledgement that it's there though not shown on the map.)

Mentions of Hither Asiatics (most likely E1) are interesting as well.

"The two races which are, so to say, the foundation of the Jewish nation are, as was said above, the Hither Asiatic and the Oriental." (Which would be J1 and E1)

"Greece is predominantly Mediterranean (Mediterranean-Hither Asiatic-Dinaric)" (R1b E1 I2 which is close enough I guess?)

"The Spaniards have always been astonished at the likeness of their Berber foes in Morocco with themselves. In all these regions of north-west Africa, however, there are found also Oriental, Negro, and (especially, it would seem, in Algeria and Morocco) Hither Asiatic strains."

There is no 'Jewish nation.' There are a number of ethnicities, some of which are related to each other and some of which are not, that are Jewish. If you're referring to Ashkenazis then J1, J2 and E3b would be the majority components but that's not to say they were the founding components.

But you're missing the point. Yes, E3b is more common in SJs than Finns, and Germans than Brits. But it still doesn't affect your race on a noticeable level. You are basically saying 'on average N1c people are more Finnic/Asiatic than non-N1c peoples' which is true, but you seem to be drawing the conclusion 'thus, N1c makes you Finnic/Asiatic.'

This is not so. Your haplogroups are but a fraction of your aDNA. You do not seem to comprehend that surely, a higher proportion of N1c people will be Finns than R1b people, but N1c doesn't make the Finn, and conversely lack of N1c doesn't break the Finn.

No genes found on your Y-chromosome have been shown to affect racial appearance (and why would they, girls don't have them).

[Void]

No genes found on your Y-chromosome have been shown to affect racial appearance (and why would they, girls don't have them).

It hasn't been researched so obviously no correlations have been found.

[Äijä]

It hasn't been researched so obviously no correlations have been found.

How much do you think they correlate?
60% Finnish males carry N1c subclades L1022, L550, L1025 and Z1936, what is the percentage of mongoloid features that causes?

[Longbowman]

It hasn't been researched so obviously no correlations have been found.

It hasn't been directly researched but we know what most of the genes do.

[Pjeter Pan]

I think 23andme made an error with my ydna

[Void]

How much do you think they correlate?
60% Finnish males carry N1c subclades L1022, L550, L1025 and Z1936, what is the percentage of mongoloid features that causes?

The 60% is based on the DNA of 95 Finns, which is an inadequate sample size.

N1c is probably the cause of the alcohol problems in Finland, which would be a typical Siberian trait. 95% of alcoholics are males which makes it a likely Y-linked trait.

Traits selected for in the autosomal DNA would also be selected for on the Y chromosome, so N1c skulls should be broader and rounder, which is a cold adaption trait. The degree of expression would be 10% at the minimum but might be as high as 40%.

Absent brow ridges are supposedly a mongoloid trait (no clear sources on this) and it's unclear how haplogroup D, C, NO, and QR express these.