Who will win the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in the Middle East

[Anglojew]

You have to admit though , this has been the plan alway, and is the only way for Israel to feel happy for is in their best prime interest.. It has always been Israelis refusing peace deals all the time, is always Israel buying time and diverting attention with other "world crises" till Palestine & Palestinians is no more. Now That's magic, making a whole nation disappear in front of our eyes. While we 're about to nuke Iran for only saying some negative things about Israel.

Untrue. Jews accepted the partition plan Arabs rejected.

Palestinians rejected peace plans in 1971, 2000 etc

[orangepulp]

One non-mainstream interpretation.

Their source is the Torah. They are the real followers of Judaism.

We have been forsworn by G'd "not to enter the Holy Land as a body before the predestined time", "not to rebel against the nations", to be loyal citizens, not to do anything against the will of any nation or its honour, not to seek vengeance, discord, restitution or compensation; "not to leave exile ahead of time." On the contrary; we have to be humble and accept the yoke of exile. To violate the oaths would result in "your flesh will be made prey as the deer and the antelope in the forest," and the redemption will be delayed. (Talmud Tractate Ksubos 111). To violate the oaths is not only a sin, it is a heresy because it is against the fundamentals of our Belief.

Before the Almighty gave us the Holy Land 3268 years ago, He made these conditions: If we will abide by the Torah, it is ours; if not, we will be expelled. Alas, we sinned, and we were exiled from the land "Umipnay chatoenu golenu mayartsenu". Only through complete repentance will the Almighty alone, without any human effort or intervention, redeem us from exile. This will be after G'd will send the prophet Elijah and Moshiach who will make all Jews do complete repentance. At that time there will be universal peace.

Any suffering in exile is a punishment from G'd and we cannot do anything about it on our own because nations where we suffered are only instruments of G'd's anger at our misdeeds. The Torah teaches us how to survive during exile (Vayishlach) by being humble (not vindictive, demanding or vengeful). The Torah gives an example of this and says that in the ocean one must go under the wave (Talmud, Tractate Yevomos 121). We have to take the punishment; if we go against it, we will suffer more. The only way to alleviate suffering in exile is through repentance. We must mend our ways and pray that G'd should not punish us again.

The Jewish people remained faithful to the Belief for over 1800 years and dealt with the problems of exile accordingly and never asked for things taken from them until the advent of Zionism 100 years ago.

[Mortimer]

Their source is the Torah. They are the real followers of Judaism.

they are the real followers of judaism to you because it is convenient because they accept dhimmitude. they are a very tiny part of judaic interpretation even among orthodox jews. most orthodox jews support the existence of israel. those are the same people who said hitler was a messiah to punish the jews.

[Cleitus]

WWIII is coming Israel against the Islamic Countrys

[orangepulp]

they are the real followers of judaism to you because it is convenient because they accept dhimmitude. they are a very tiny part of judaic interpretation even among orthodox jews. most orthodox jews support the existence of israel. those are the same people who said hitler was a messiah to punish the jews.

They are real followers of Judaism because they try to implement the laws of the Torah.

[Mortimer]

They are real followers of Judaism because they try to implement the laws of the Torah.

how do you know they follow the laws of the torah and not their screwed up version of the laws of the torah. they are a tiny part of orthodox judaism and all orthodox jews follow all 613 laws of the torah, most orthodox jews have another opinion on israel though, with orthodox rabbinate sitting in jerusalem, also those same jews sitt probably in israel and enjoy the benefits of protection from zionists so they wont get their fat asses kicked and wear the juden star, i wonder if they will go voluntarily into gas chamber or what they would say if a muslim rapes their daughter or wife or blasts his bomb and kills their son and father, they are just idiots

[orangepulp]

how do you know they follow the laws of the torah and not their screwed up version of the laws of the torah. they are a tiny part of orthodox judaism and all orthodox jews follow all 613 laws of the torah, most orthodox jews have another opinion on israel though, with orthodox rabbinate sitting in jerusalem, also those same jews sitt probably in israel and enjoy the benefits of protection from zionists so they wont get their fat asses kicked and wear the juden star, i wonder if they will go voluntarily into gas chamber or what they would say if a muslim rapes their daughter or wife or blasts his bomb and kills their son and father, they are just idiots

A Muslim who follows Islam would not rape anybody as any act of fornication is not allowed in Islam.
In the past Muslims and Jews lived in peace under Muslim rule. Even when Jews were expelled from Europe Muslim Ottomans took them in.
In Islamic jurisprudence Jews and Christians, whom are referred to as people of the book can live in Muslim lands. Muslim men can marry their women, Muslims can consume their meat. Christians and Jews had their temples of worship.

Present day Torah's authenticity is completely a different topic.

Read this interview:

Jewish Torah prohibits the creation of the state of Israel


Some time ago member of Neturei Karta movement Israeli Rabbi Weiss gave an interview to Arab satellite channel Al-Jazeera – «Our principle is Jews against Zionism». The revelations of the Jewish Rabbi were so unexpected, they contradict the official ideology of the Fascist-minded Zionist regime so much that in our opinion for many of the readers his interview will be a sensation and it will result in reevaluating the events that are going on in the Middle East today.

Al-Jazeera: Rabbi Weiss, greetings to you.

As-Salamu Aleikum.

Weiss: Waaleikum as-salam. Thank you.

- First of all, let me ask you what is your attitude towards Israel’s criminal actions against Palestinians these days, especially towards what happened in Jenin?
– Of course, it was a horrible crime that hurts the Jewish people and humiliates them. What is happening to people, to innocent people - is a tragedy. And unfortunately it is all being committed on behalf of the Jews - the God-fearing people, on behalf of Judaism - the religion of the Jews. That crime is twice as heavy. It is very painful and humiliating for us to see it. And we cannot even express all our feelings towards the Islamic World.

- Hence, you think that what happened was a crime against humanity and a war crime?
– Exactly. I am personally familiar with the UN laws and what according to them is considered a war crime and what is not. But undoubtedly, repressions and humiliations towards Palestinians - are crimes. For example the fact that they have no opportunity to rule on their own lands is a crime.

In Palestine expropriators are committing crimes against the Palestinian people. What kind of crimes are they - war crimes or just crimes, - I don’t know, but they are heavy crimes.

- Isn't what the Israeli army is doing with Palestinians is the echo of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef’s (leader of Israeli clerical party Shas) appeal? For example, while giving a speech on April 19, 2001, he referred to Torah and stated: «Pour thy anger upon others» and called on taking it out on Arabs and wipe them off the face of the Earth. By the way, that Rabbi's party is the third in number in the Knesset, and he is the leader of all Sephardic Jews (Sephardim - Eastern Jews).
– You said a very significant phrase: ‘Leader of all Sephardic Jews‘. No, it’s absolutely wrong. Ovadia Yosef was chosen by the Zionists only because he agreed to be their accomplice and execute their will.

- So, you believe that Ovadia Yosef is serving the cause of Zionism?
– Yes. He may be educated and knows Torah, but he contradicts the essence of Torah, namely, that Torah warns us against the creation of Zionist state, and against committing crimes against Palestinian people or other people. Therefore the words of that man are of no value. He was just appointed on the post of a high Rabbi and this very fact testifies that he does not represent Judaism.

- Are you saying that Israel is a godless state?
– Certainly. I must explain it to you.

Judaism is a religion that has been around for thousands of years. The Jews have the Torah - the Scripture from God, which they are constantly following. And the Torah says that the Jewish army received the land, and whoever falls into sin will be cast out of this land. The books of Prophets are saying with all their frankness that we were cast out of that land due to the fall. Every Jew knows about it. We are saying it in our prayers; this is the Jewish creed. The Jews have accepted this punishment from the Most High and agreed to live among other nations across the world, respecting their laws. It was up until Zionism and the Reformist movement came, which rejected Jewish beliefs based on the Torah. Its ideologists, such as Hertzl and others of that ilk, were not religious people and they did not observe the precepts of Torah. That’s why when they saw the sufferings of the Jewish people, instead of accepting it as the will of God (as He said in the Torah - if a punishment has come upon you, you must repent), they founded Zionism.

- I'd like to come back to this important moment, that the founders of the Zionist state were not religious Jews, but they were secular people, and that’s why they used Zionism, and not the Jewish religion!
– You’re right.

- In your opinion, does the building of the state of Israel oppose the will of Allah?
– Yes, of course. The Almighty prohibited us to create a state and He said that he would scatter us as a punishment and we should repent and cling to Him. And if we depart from Him, if we start fighting Him and creating the state of Israel, then we will become godless atheists.

- But nevertheless, this state, which as you say is godless, is leaning on rabbis. Thus, for example, Ovadia Yosef calls Arabs «snakes» and claims that you can't live in peace with them. In his opinion, Arabs should be «showered with rockets» and «exterminated». And here, the Israeli army is apparently responding to the appeals by radical rabbis, who in turn are leaning on the Torah. Besides, today clerical parties are present in the Israeli government. Turns out that what you are saying is contrary to the reality?
– Like I already said, Zionism is not a religious movement. It uses the Torah as a tool. For example, they have the law, but that law is not the Torah. All their actions contradict the Torah. However, in order to attract Jews, they are deceiving and deluding them, giving it all out as directions from Torah. For that purpose they hire a rabbi who tells them to follow them (the Zionists).

- But it's not just Ovadia Yosef, but there are thousands of rabbis who support Israel.
– Allow me to repeat it one more time, that the truth is the truth. Torah makes it clear. And its doctrine prohibits the creation of Israel. Before the Word War I the majority of the Jews did not want the creation of the state of Israel.

- Excuse me, how did you say that?
– And they were strongly resisting it. In the past, the Jews. including Sephardic Jews, were opposing Zionism and they were expelling Zionists from their midst. All of the Jews knew that Zionists were going against God in their desire to create a state, since it contradicts the will of the Most High. Therefore before the state was founded the Jews were against the creation of Israel and against moving to Palestine. Rabbis warned, that by doing this they would ruin Judaism and turn it from spiritual religion into a state and into a secularized society. And as the Rabbis predicted, it would resound with a great disaster. Therefore all who support Zionism, are thereby supporting sin. However there are hundreds of thousands of Jews who do not follow the ideas of Zionism. And many support Zionism just for their personal benefit.

- How would you estimate the rabbis like Ovadia Yosef, who are calling Arabs «snakes» and demanding to «exterminate» them?
– I told you that with their crimes against Palestinians they will bring a great disaster to the Jews, because they are provoking hostilities between Arabs and Jews, and they are sowing death and destruction. Ever since the very first day of the creation of the state of Israel they have been doing what the rabbis warned us against. Zionists abandoned spirituality and made many Jews abandon their religion and become atheists. And it’s even worse than murders of the Jews committed by Hitler. In Germany Jews were subjected to humiliations and exile, but after they moved to Palestine, they started doing the same exact thing.

- Now you clarified why you reject the very idea of the creation of Israel. but why then Israel is being supported regardless of the fact that, as you claim, it's the result of the Zionist project against God and it contradicts the Torah?
– There are several reasons for that. Among the Jews there are hundred percent Zionists, who are heretics. But there are also those who are lost because of Zionist lies and brainwashing. They think that the road to God is to hold on to this land.

- Are there any other reasons?
– Today the main reason is quite trivial. It lies within the fact that Zionists are utilizing fear. Zionists use two tricks. The first one is anti-Semitism. If you speak against the Zionists, you will immediately be blamed in anti-Semitism and they will set the Jewish public and the public of the whole world against you. The other Zionist lie is their claim that if they give up the land, then Arabs will allegedly exterminate all the Jews. They belittle the dignity of Arab people and they are saying that these people are heartless and ruthless. These are horrible lies - a big mistake on behalf of the Zionists. They are accusing Arabs of being hostile towards the Jews, even though during a long period of time Jews have been living under the Arab and Muslim rule in various regions: in Tunisia, in Iraq, Iran, and other countries. And there they were shown more hospitality than in any other country. We, the Jewish people all around the world, are not denying it. However Zionism is trying to distort and obliterate that reality from people’s minds, which is a part of the history of both Jews and Muslims. The Zionists are impudently rewriting the history, and along with that they are accusing Muslims of hatred towards the Jews, and they are claiming that it is the Muslims (and not the Divine predetermination), who want to annihilate the Jewish people. They instill that fear into the hearts of ordinary Jews. And it brings its poisonous fruits. For example, you know, many religious Jews do not send their children to the military where that they could kill, but they are convinced that they cannot leave the land, falling for Zionist tricks.

- However, let's say that organizations like Gush Amonim and other ones like it, which are Orthodox just like you are, who are wearing similar clothes and sticking to the same rituals, are at the same time staunch defenders of Zionist entity, and they are the most hostile towards the Palestinians. What is Israel's attitude towards you, since you are bearers of ideas which are hostile to the Zionist state?
– «What is Israel’s attitude towards us?» Of course they consider us as hateful enemies. Ever since the moment this Zionist state was created, we have been conducting actions of protest, because of which they constantly beat us pretty brutally. I have a lot of evidence, including video and photo materials, which show how Zionists beat orthodox Jews, claiming that we are enemies and that we will destroy them from the inside. As Jews, we are not aggressive. And Zionists, however, are committing atrocities not because they are Jews, but because they are against the Jews.

- But it is Jews, and not other nations, who are killing Palestinians.
– I repeat it one more time that there is a difference between Zionists and Jews. The murderers are those who represent Zionism.

- The majority of the Jews are supporters of Zionism, and you are a minority, which has no influence on anything.
– First of all, the majority of the world’s Jewry is not religious. However, the true Jews are those who observe the laws of Judaism. Their number all around the world is not that small. Many Jews who oppose Zionism are residing in Al-Quds (Jerusalem). Just like the Jewish community before the creation of Israel, they do not accept Zionism. Native Palestinian Jews were very God-fearing and that’s why they are still opposing Zionism. The Zionists are afraid of us, they are afraid that our voice will be heard and that it will affect the Jews.

- Are you demanding that Jews do not return to Israel, but on the contrary, move out of there back where they came from?
– High rabbis from our community are saying that you cannot live in the shadow of Zionism. Tens of thousands of Jews left Palestine to get away from the Zionist state, they went to London, New York, etc. But there is also another ideological trend in our community, whose representatives do not want to leave Israel so that they could have the opportunity to fight Zionism from the inside. They are constantly conducting actions of protest against Zionists in Israel.

- What can you say about those Jews who move to Israel? Do they deserve the wrath of the Lord because they disobey His will, according to your convictions?
– I cannot judge what the will of God is, but He clearly says that those who do not live according to the Torah, are drawing the wrath of the Most High upon themselves. Indeed, moving to Israel under the flag of Zionism and supporting the Zionist movement incur the wrath of God. We oppose immigration to Palestine, because it’s a mistake. It’s not me who claims it, it’s the Bible.

- You are claiming that Palestine should be for Palestinians, and you are seeing Israel as a state that does not have the right to exist. During the rallies held in Washington last Saturday very important statements were made, which can be read on the Internet. You said that peace will never be established in the Middle East until the Zionist state is not liquidated. So, are you calling for the liquidation of Israel?
– We are calling for the total liquidation of Israel. We do not accept the agreements like the one signed in Oslo, according to which both states must exist, because we are acting in accordance with the precepts of Torah. In the Torah the Jews have been warned against the creation of their state by harming the Palestinian people who own this land. We want to live under the protection of Palestine, under the leadership of Palestine, and we declare that no success can be achieved in striving for peace, as long as the Zionist entity, or as they also call it, the «Jewish state», exists.

- Peace will not come to the region, and all the agreements will have no value in the future either, as long as Israel exists. Does that mean that the peace agreements yielded no results at all?
– Yes. We have been saying it and we were saying it during the Oslo negotiations. Our community has conducted many actions of protest: in Madrid, in Washington and in other cities, with the statements that these agreements will not lead to peace, because as long as the state exists, it is revolt against the will of Allah. And a revolt cannot lead to success. People were looking at us as if we were radicals, but that’s what the Torah says, and it is the only right way. We are constantly calling to the Lord so that he liquidates Israel in a peaceful way, and so that no blood of Palestinians or Jews is shed. We are constantly praying so that Israel ceases to exist without any bloodshed.

- Do you believe in the right of the Palestinians to resist Israeli occupation, especially when they are subjected to repressions, slaughter, exile, demolition of their houses and infringement of their property? Do they have the right to resist the Israelis?
– We must clarify some moments one more time. Living in another state, we must be citizens and must comply with the laws of that state. But not in the state of Israel. In this regard we must not give any advises to the leadership or the people of any country on what they must do, or how they should run the state and who to fight. We can’t do that. We are only saying that kings and rulers are in the hands of God, therefore how can we tell them what to do? It’s none of our business. However, we have been worrying from the very beginning of the existence of the state of Israel, and we have been warning the rabbis that for us its appearance will turn into death. And we felt fear before God since the first day of the existence of Israel, when sufferings and deaths of Palestinians and Jews had started. And we are afraid of what is now going on in Palestine, but we cannot call on anything or give any advises. We only have the right to offer up our prayers to the Most High.

- Why don't you reveal your views through the mass media? Why is your influence so weak?
– We are openly expressing our views. However the mass media are working against us. Let me give you an example. Two months ago 20 thousand Jews in New York City conducted a mass protest action against Zionism. I invited Iranian correspondents and the materials that they filmed were shown in Iran. But our rally was not covered by American mass media. On the contrary, we have always been subjected to attacks from Israeli mass media and Western mass media controlled by Zionists. That’s why you don’t hear about our rallies which are conducted on a regular basis. Everyone must know that if somebody says something against Zionism, he will immediately be accused of anti-Semitism.

- Even if you are a Semite, or a Jew?
– If you are a Jew, you will be accused of hating your own self. We have nothing against the Jewish people, but we are against Zionism. Zionism is a big problem, since the Zionists are living on blood. All living beings are living on water, except for Zionists, who are living on blood. The more Jewish blood is shed, the stronger the positions of Zionism become. Every time Jews get killed, the Zionists are interpreting it as the justification of the existence of our own state and they are demanding support from the countries of the West under the pretext that the Jews are being discriminated against. And when Muslims undertake some desperate action against Jews, the Zionists are saying: «See, what Muslims are doing to us?» Therefore we are warning the Jewish people, saying that the Zionists want to use anti-Semitism as a cover, and they benefit from Jewish blood being shed.

- What do you think about the mutual aid between the organizations and movements that oppose Zionism and Israel? Do you welcome such cooperation?
– We have always been with the Arabs and have always expressed our support for Palestinian people and our solidarity with them. I personally visited Iran, and forty years ago Neturei Karta Movement was established in Yemen, where we are calling on the local Jewish diaspora to take anti-Zionist position. Our principle is - Jews against Zionism.

- You are living in New York City, where Neturei Karta is headquartered. Do you feel any oppression from the US law enforcement agencies since you are speaking against Israel and Zionism, while Washington is supporting them?
– We are conscientious citizens, just as it befits the Jews. Therefore we respect and obey all the laws of the United States. Thank God, the Zionists are unable to harm our movement as a whole, but they still create certain problems for us. They are trying to disrupt our actions of protest using their cooperation with the authorities and the police, where they have the power. But as a whole, the American authorities let us talk and they protect us during our rallies. However in Israel the situation is totally different. If we conduct a protest action over there, the police brutally beat us. There is a lot of video- and photo-evidence of that, which we also put on the Internet.

- How can you be found on the Internet?
– Our website is www.netureikarta.org, and my own e-mail is: weiss@netureikarta.org.

- And in your opinion, what does the future hold for Israel?
– I am very glad you asked me that. The state of Israel will certainly cease to exist, since it opposes God. The Lord is not pleased with Israel, and we are asking Him to liquidate that country with no pain or bloodshed. So that no Palestinians or Jews who are not involved in the crimes of Zionism would suffer. We want the Palestinians to rule Palestine. We are waiting for the advent of the Messiah, and not for the advent of Israel. However, according to the Torah, it doesn’t mean that there will be no Israel, but at that time the entire nation will be with us, as the Torah teaches. The Scripture says that nations will co-exist with us, and I can confirm it with quotes. But we are hoping, and we are striving for it, so that people could live in peace, so that a lamb could live with a wolf. We mean no harm to Palestinian people. Our dream is not the creation of godless Zionist entity, but the unity of people in serving God. That’s what we are expecting from the Messiah.

[GrebluBro]

Zionist Jews stole the Israel land..
Just because 2000 years ago 30% of Jews ancestors lived in Israel, doesn't mean they can claim whole land..
All humans moved all over the world in the past 2000 years, if 1000s of different ethnicity used Jews' logic whole world will be at war.
For instance, take Turkish people
Turks' ancestors are not only Anatolians, some their ancient ancestors moved all the way from Kazakhstan, Uzbek, even Northern China..
So Turks can claim Northern CHina now??

Sadly, some British Bastards helped those Zionist Motherfuckers to stole the land from innocent Palestine people.

Note:
a) I respect British, I hate those tiny percent of British who helped Zionist
b) I respect ultra-orthodox Jews who don't believe in conquering of Israeli land and they are against zionist Jews

[SKYNET]

The US government supports Israel? One simple example why it happens

[Anglojew]

Their source is the Torah. They are the real followers of Judaism.

Sorry buddy but they represent about 0.01% of Jews.

Sounds like you're converted to Judaism though since you recognize the legitimacy of the Torah.