[SPLIT from Are Spaniards and Portuguese people white?] Christianity and Paganism

[Aemma]

That's more like what modern 'heathens' do.

Uhmm no we don't, Anthropos. Why such an off-topic shot in this thread btw?

[Anthropos]

Uhmm no we don't, Anthropos. Why such an off-topic shot in this thread btw?

It was Tonsor who accused the real heathens, before the North was Christian, of 'howling at the moon and painting their faces', so my comment was quite on topic. The argument from Tonsor, and from many others as well, consisted in pointing out the ignorance of people who exclude Southerners from their definitions of Europe. In that he was quite right. It was just this comment about heathens of his that was unfounded.

Why such oversensitivity? Is there a witchhunt on people who insist on keeping with a sober understanding? Are we not preservationist enough, since we don't accept modern falsifications of our true history?

[Aemma]

Why such oversensitivity? Is there a witchhunt on people who insist on keeping with a sober understanding? Are we not preservationist enough, since we don't accept modern falsifications of our true history?

Geez Anthropos, you know me better than that. There is no witch hunt. And I am not questioning your or anybody else's "preservationism". Please don't make an issue out of something that needn't be turned into one.

You explained the context of that comment and now I know. I thank you for having responded.

Now let's carry on, amicably please.

[Poltergeist]

It was Tonsor who accused the real heathens, before the North was Christian, of 'howling at the moon and painting their faces', so my comment was quite on topic.

A common misconception which arises from the idea of "progress" most people these days almost take for granted.

But that's quite innocent.

What I especially scoff at is the view of European paganism by minions of the European Nouvelle Droite, an extremely naive, one-dimensional, superficial and ahistorical one. So is their view of Christianity and "monotheism": utterly simplified. Their preference for paganism over "monotheism" is based on this distorted vision and is more indebted to traditional culturally Christian notions that they are willing to admit. It turns out in the end analysis that they know nothing about either paganism or Christianity.

[Aemma]

What I especially scoff at is the view of European paganism by minions of the European Nouvelle Droite, an extremely naive, one-dimensional, superficial and ahistorical one.

Well for starters perhaps you can explain why it is so in your opinion Saltimbanque. I for one would be interested to know your thoughts on this.

So is their view of Christianity and "monotheism": utterly simplified. Their preference for paganism over "monotheism" is based on this distorted view and is more indebted to traditional culturally Christian notions that they are willing to admit.

Ok, and what is "monotheism" to you, if you please?

It turns out in the end analysis that they know nothing about either paganism or Christianity.

And there I think you make a grossly unfair and sweeping assumption that only a devotee of Christianity could possibly know anything about either. Do you not realise that some of us have come from academic backgrounds as well that have given us just as much sound knowledge about Christianity, monotheism, polytheism, and indigenous religions (what you so glibly refer to as "paganism")? Or do you think that we're all just a bunch of uneducated people who haven't approached their own spiritual journeys with any measure of consideration as to what life means to them and their context in the world?

I would wager that if some of you actually talked to some heathens, you would find that some of our more metaphysical concepts may not be entirely off target with your own in the grand scheme of things. But no. Unfortunately what I see are the words "heathen", "pagan" and "neo-pagan" bandied about with no consideration as to what each word actually means and how different they really are in meaning. But what is even worse is their usage in such a cavalier and tacitly derogatory manner. It's a shame really.

The thing that I think would be most refreshing one day would be for people with a real interest in discussing different spiritual approaches to actually discuss (!) things as opposed to one side or the other being victim to nonsensical empty comments from the other side--how novel of an idea! Such IS possible in a world of cultured and well-educated people who foster a sense of mutual respect towards the other and his or her learned opinion, you know. But perhaps, in the end, I am asking too much of certain people here.

It's a pity, really. Imagine the very fine discussions we could have if people only met each other halfway.

[Poltergeist]

And there I think you make a grossly unfair and sweeping assumption that only a devotee of Christianity could possibly know anything about either.

LOLISSIME! Where did I say that? What a heavy insinuation! All I did was to dismiss the superficial views of Christianity and paganism held by some intellectualoids of the Nouvelle Droite ("new right"). And I know what I am talking about because for some time I was quite interested in the metapolitical and philosophical ideas of that movement and I read quite a few of their books and articles.

[Aemma]

LOLISSIME! Where did I say that? What a heavy insinuation! All I did was to dismiss the superficial views of Christianity and paganism held by some intellectualoids of the Nouvelle Droite ("new right"). And I know what I am talking about because for some time I was quite interested in the metapolitical and philosophical ideas of that movement and I read quite a few of their books and articles.

Ok, but this is how I read your post hence my response. My sincere apologies to you then, Saltimbanque.

In the interest of furthering this discussion then, perhaps you can elaborate as to what you think makes the Nouvelle Droite's take on Christianity and paganism so superficial? I personally quite enjoy Alain de Benoist's writings by the way but I am never above reading and trying to understand the criticisms of thinkers either.

So again in the spirit of positive intellectual exchange, I would be very interested to know your opinion with respect to the Nouvelle Droite's ideas Christianity and paganism and generally on the place of religion in modern society.

[Anthropos]

I certainly have every right to disapprove of the way that mordern 'heathens' (with quotation marks) parasite on the real heathens before the North was Christian. People have a right to believe whatever they want to believe, but to come along with silly folkish-romantic and creativistic notions and practices of 'heathenry', and to claim, like Psychonaut does, that 'heathens' are the only real preservationists, or that they are more inclined to be preservationists, is downright offensive. It's a falsification of a history that Christians and 'heathens' share! Is that so hard to see?

[Allenson]

We're just exercising our free will. There's nothing wrong with that, right?

[Anthropos]

We're just exercising our free will. There's nothing wrong with that, right?

If you are inclined to falsify history in the name of preservation, then there is something wrong with it. You usually don't, as far as I know, but there are others who do.