Pure, Thoroughbred Neanderthals?

[Unome]

What makes you think they would be more Neanderthal than other non-Africans? Their red hair? Also no humans alive today have direct maternal (mtDNA) lines that trace back to Neanderthals that we know of.

Soft curly, thin red hair and freckles, I hypothesize that this combination of phenotypical traits arose with the Neanderthals.

And it is an easy hypothesis to prove: all you need to do is consolidate a 'Neanderthal admix' consensus on 23andme. You can test a population and see the results. I believe that these women will score higher than average, and > 3.0 %.

If I'm wrong then they'll score 2.9% and lower on their Neanderthal admixture results.


All good, scientific hypotheses need a standard for proof (>3.0% Neanderthal admixture) and disproof (<2.9% Neanderthal admixture).

My Neanderthal admixture is 2.9%., so just below the 3.0% standard.

[Unome]

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/...-hair-and-more

"The less active Neanderthal mutation probably also resulted in red hair and pale skin, as in modern humans."

So your "evidence" agrees with me? Good, lol

[Stimpy]

"The less active Neanderthal mutation probably also resulted in red hair and pale skin, as in modern humans."

So your "evidence" agrees with me? Good, lol

Way to take things out of context, read it again and you might understand. Neanderthals had genes for red hair just as modern humans, just not exactly the same gene.

[Unome]

Way to take things out of context, read it again and you might understand. Neanderthals had genes for red hair just as modern humans, just not exactly the same gene.

That doesn't disprove my hypothesis.

In fact it has no connection to my hypothesis. Your evidence mentioned "a fragment" of DNA. The point is: scientists and anthropologists do not have the complete picture.

It's simple. You need to explain if, and how, the Neanderthals went "extinct". I doubt it. They didn't go "extinct" inasmuch they became absorbed into other native, aboriginal Euro populations and tribes. This absorption produced these types as I've displayed. Unless you have another explanation?

[Black Wolf]

Soft curly, thin red hair and freckles, I hypothesize that this combination of phenotypical traits arose with the Neanderthals.

And it is an easy hypothesis to prove: all you need to do is consolidate a 'Neanderthal admix' consensus on 23andme. You can test a population and see the results. I believe that these women will score higher than average, and > 3.0 %.

If I'm wrong then they'll score 2.9% and lower on their Neanderthal admixture results.


All good, scientific hypotheses need a standard for proof (>3.0% Neanderthal admixture) and disproof (<2.9% Neanderthal admixture).

My Neanderthal admixture is 2.9%., so just below the 3.0% standard.

As mentioned above by Assaron already the red hair genes in Neanderthals and modern humans have different origins. They did not come from the same ancestral population. 23andme's Neanderthal scores may not even be correct. They do not correlate well this those of the Genographic Project even. On 23andme I score 2.8% Neanderthal while on Genographic Project I score 2.2%. Full genome results are probably the only way to truly know how much neanderthal one has in themselves. As a result I don't believe people with red hair today have substantially more Neanderthal ancestry than other non-Africans on the whole.

[Stimpy]

That doesn't disprove my hypothesis.

In fact it has no connection to my hypothesis. Your evidence mentioned "a fragment" of DNA. The point is: scientists and anthropologists do not have the complete picture.

It's simple. You need to explain if, and how, the Neanderthals went "extinct". I doubt it. They didn't go "extinct" inasmuch they became absorbed into other native, aboriginal Euro populations and tribes. This absorption produced these types as I've displayed. Unless you have another explanation?

Why would I have to explain something I have never claimed and that's not true?

I'm not denying that neanderthals were absorbed by modern people, mostly Europeans, who also share most appearance with them.
What I'm saying is that the gene that caused red hair in Neanderthals is not the same as the one in modern humans, therefore our red hair didn't come directly from them.

These girls you posted definitely have neanderthal admixture, but not necesarily more than any other average Europeans just because they have red hair.

[Kazimiera]

I'm 2.9%

Do I count?

[Cail]

I believe the following women represent the 'purest' types of Neanderthals (aboriginal Northern Europeans) and if given a 23andme or another genetic test, they probably would score the highest Neanderthal admix (>3.0%). I guess that these women probably have direct maternal links to the ancient Neanderthal people.

If I remember correctly, nobody has a direct maternal link to the Neanderthals, our Neanderthal ancestry is paternal. Source - all shared (inherited) DNA is nuclear, never the mtDNA.

[Unome]

If I remember correctly, nobody has a direct maternal link to the Neanderthals, our Neanderthal ancestry is paternal. Source - all shared (inherited) DNA is nuclear, never the mtDNA.

That depends on the hypotheses which seek-out genotype patterns and heritage. Most anthropology focuses on male heritage (Y-DNA) and not female heritage (mtDNA).

But there is a vast difference when seeking a paternal or maternal lineage.

These hypotheses are not fleshed-out by modern anthropology hobbyists. For example it is rather simple and easy to make hypotheses based on a paternal lineage (grandfather to father to son to son to son) compared to a maternal lineage (grandmother to mother to daughter to daughter to daughter etc.).

[Unome]

Why would I have to explain something I have never claimed and that's not true?

I'm not denying that neanderthals were absorbed by modern people, mostly Europeans, who also share most appearance with them.
What I'm saying is that the gene that caused red hair in Neanderthals is not the same as the one in modern humans, therefore our red hair didn't come directly from them.

No, your "evidence" only stated "one fragment" of DNA (how significant is it?) on top of the fact the red-hair genes were not necessarily correlated through that "one fragment".

So that evidence obviously is inconclusive. Besides there is more to this than just "red hair". There is also the smooth, curly texture of the hair, and freckles. You'd need to associate all the phenotypical attributes together, and then, afterward, link the combination to a genetic trend/pattern/inheritance.

These girls you posted definitely have neanderthal admixture, but not necesarily more than any other average Europeans just because they have red hair.

We don't know until we test the hypothesis.

And I believe testing this pattern will reveal significant (>3.0%) Neanderthal admixture.