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Thread: Intoxicated Sexual Assault Victims Are as Guilty as Their Attackers

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    Default Intoxicated Sexual Assault Victims Are as Guilty as Their Attackers

    Intoxicated Sexual Assault Victims Are as Guilty as Their Attackers

    James Taranto says that men are often unfairly accused, particularly when both men and women involved in the case were drinking.



    Wall Street Journal editor James Taranto claimed that cases of "'sexual assault' on campus" that involve alcohol are really victimless crimes in which both parties are equally guilty.

    In his February 10 WSJ column, Taranto baselessly argued that men are often unfairly accused in sexual assault cases on college campuses, particularly when both men and women involved in the case were drinking (emphasis added):

    What is called the problem of "sexual assault" on campus is in large part a problem of reckless alcohol consumption, by men and women alike.

    [...]

    If two drunk drivers are in a collision, one doesn't determine fault on the basis of demographic details such as each driver's sex. But when two drunken college students "collide," the male one is almost always presumed to be at fault. His diminished capacity owing to alcohol is not a mitigating factor, but her diminished capacity is an aggravating factor for him.

    As the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education notes, at some campuses the accuser's having had one drink is sufficient to establish the defendant's guilt ... In theory that means, as FIRE notes, that "if both parties are intoxicated during sex, they are both technically guilty of sexually assaulting each other." In practice it means that women, but not men, are absolved of responsibility by virtue of having consumed alcohol.

    While it is true that reckless alcohol consumption can play a role in encouraging damaging behavior, and that male and female college students (particularly underage students) could probably benefit from learning to moderate their drinking for a variety of reasons, Taranto's accusation that women who drink -- and then are forced to have sex against their will -- are not only equally at fault for their assault but are guilty of an equivalent crime takes victim blaming to a new and dangerous low.

    Taranto's victim-blaming approach furthers his attempts to disingenuously redefine the problem of sexual assault as a problem of alcohol. The problem of sexual assault on college campuses, as elsewhere, is entirely a problem of sexual assault, in which a victim does not consent to sexual relations with the aggressor. Studies have shown that alcohol consumption doesn't cause sexual assault, nor does it serve as a defense. According to a literature review from the National Institutes of Health:

    The fact that alcohol consumption and sexual assault frequently co-occur does not demonstrate that alcohol causes sexual assault.

    [...]

    [M]en are legally and morally responsible for acts of sexual assault they commit, regardless of whether or not they were intoxicated or felt that the woman had led them on previously. The fact that a woman's alcohol consumption may increase their likelihood of experiencing sexual assault does not make them responsible for the man's behavior, although such information may empower women when used in prevention programs.

    Other studies similarly found that some college men who acknowledge committing sexual assault -- which included 25 percent of male students surveyed -- may have used alcohol to "have an excuse for their behavior." Other variables, like peer pressure, "may lead some men both to drink heavily and to commit sexual assault," but the researchers found no evidence to place the blame solely on the presence of alcohol.

    Moreover, just because both women and men are drinking in a particular situation does not necessarily place them on equal footing. As Ann Friedman has noted, "The biological reality is that women do not metabolize alcohol the same way as men do, and that means drink for drink women will get drunker faster." The idea that women who get drunk and then are forced into nonconsensual sexual experiences are equally at fault in the situation misses the reality of assault, particularly as it involves physical force of some kind in a majority of cases.

    If Taranto is concerned about the treatment of men in such cases, he could have written about male sexual assault victims, who are a smaller but nevertheless important portion of victims. But when men are sexually assaulted the perpetrator is usually also male; in fact, 98 percent of all perpetrators are male. The "double standard" Taranto is worried about, in which men are more often the accused, isn't a double standard at all -- it's just reality.

    The insistence that victims are equally responsible for their assault contributes to a dangerous stigmatization which keeps many victims from reporting these crimes -- particularly because victims who do report can become the targets of vicious attacks. Previously, Taranto's victim-blaming has included insisting that efforts to address the growing problem of sexual assault are attacks on men and male sexuality.

    But no matter how many times he uses the WSJ to blame victims and push sexist attacks, his concern that women take advantage of using alcohol to falsely accuse men of assault just doesn't match the facts. According to the FBI, people falsely report sexual assault at the same low rate as other comparable crimes: only 3 percent of the time.


    Source: http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-pol...heir-attackers

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    It doesn't help when both are drunk, man and woman in such an instance, but i disagree completely. How can he say sexual assault is a victimless crime...?!
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    You should never be drunk to the point of being not in control of yourself in public. If you wanna get wasted, lock the door and go for it in your own home, where you can pass out safely of safer.

    As a side note.

    What kind of a moron finds drunk women sexually appealing?

    Happy drunks are at least funny, but finding a drunk to be sexually desirable is gross to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheViridiana View Post
    It doesn't help when both are drunk, man and woman in such an instance, but i disagree completely. How can he say sexual assault is a victimless crime...?!
    I think what he is saying is that if they are both drunk neither one is really in control of their own self, as in drunks do stupid shit they do not even remember next day.
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    I completely disagree with it (as a girl.), just because a woman is drunk does not give an excuse for a guy to sexually assault her.

    Here's a fun story!

    It reminds me of what happened to me a little over a year ago, I was at a party in a friend's house, and this guy (who was actually really cute), kept hitting on me, but I wasn't interested in him at the time because I had a boyfriend. He didn't give up though. At around 4-5 a.m., people started to leave but he stayed along with a few friends. I was feeling tired so I excused myself to the guest room and laid down for a while (I wasn't drunk, but I admit I wasn't entirely sober either.) as I was falling alseep, I hear someone walking into the room, and SURPRISE! It was the guy who wa shitting on me earlier, he walked in quietly so I just pretended to be asleep so he left me alone.

    He started whispering stuff like "Sasha? Are you awake?"

    I didn't respond.

    Then I feel him sitting on the bed and (here comes the creepy part), he starts running his fingers down my back and hips, he does this for a few seconds before I turn around and say "What the fuck are you doing?" He just stands up, says "Nothing, sorry. Thought you were asleep." and leaves as if nothing happened. I should have told my friend at the time about the incident, but I was far too shocked and I really didn't tell anyone.

    Had I been truly drunk or passed out, I don't know what he would've done, regardless of one's state, sexual assault is not cool. To this day I still want to punch the guy in the face.

    Rape is rape, a drunk victim is often unable to defend him/herself, and there's no excuse for raping someone who was passed out either. That should never be acceptable. It's like blaming women of getting raped for what they were wearing. I do, however, advice women to not drink too much around strange men, even if it isn't your fault they raped you, it could happen, women are far more likely to get raped than men, and we are also naturally physically weaker as well (I don't care what you say, it's true. Most men are stronger than most women.). You just have to be careful. You never know what will run inside a sick fuck's head who wants to take advantage of you.
    I'm a tolerant liberal leftist. AGREE WITH WHAT I FUCKING SAY OR YOU'RE A HOMOPHOBE, BIGOT, REDNECK, RACIST, PIECE OF SHIT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticwolf View Post
    I think what he is saying is that if they are both drunk neither one is really in control of their own self, as in drunks do stupid shit they do not even remember next day.
    I understand that, i don't deny that is it dangerous for any woman to drink excessively to that point.. but you don't even need to be completely drunk to be overpowered by most men, some choices of words he used for his reasoning is wrong though.

    Women are more likely to be raped by someone they know than a complete stranger, so his logic in that instance would be 'it's a womans fault they were trusting or drank in the presence of a friend/acquaintance'. Every person ultimately should have a right to a good time without the threat of rape though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fufuangeli View Post
    I completely disagree with it (as a girl.), just because a woman is drunk does not give an excuse for a guy to sexually assault her.

    Here's a fun story!

    It reminds me of what happened to me a little over a year ago, I was at a party in a friend's house, and this guy (who was actually really cute), kept hitting on me, but I wasn't interested in him at the time because I had a boyfriend. He didn't give up though. At around 4-5 a.m., people started to leave but he stayed along with a few friends. I was feeling tired so I excused myself to the guest room and laid down for a while (I wasn't drunk, but I admit I wasn't entirely sober either.) as I was falling alseep, I hear someone walking into the room, and SURPRISE! It was the guy who wa shitting on me earlier, he walked in quietly so I just pretended to be asleep so he left me alone.

    He started whispering stuff like "Sasha? Are you awake?"

    I didn't respond.

    Then I feel him sitting on the bed and (here comes the creepy part), he starts running his fingers down my back and hips, he does this for a few seconds before I turn around and say "What the fuck are you doing?" He just stands up, says "Nothing, sorry. Thought you were asleep." and leaves as if nothing happened. I should have told my friend at the time about the incident, but I was far too shocked and I really didn't tell anyone.

    Had I been truly drunk or passed out, I don't know what he would've done, regardless of one's state, sexual assault is not cool. To this day I still want to punch the guy in the face.

    Rape is rape, a drunk victim is often unable to defend him/herself, and there's no excuse for raping someone who was passed out either. That should never be acceptable. It's like blaming women of getting raped for what they were wearing. I do, however, advice women to not drink too much around strange men, even if it isn't your fault they raped you, it could happen, women are far more likely to get raped than men, and we are also naturally physically weaker as well (I don't care what you say, it's true. Most men are stronger than most women.). You just have to be careful. You never know what will run inside a sick fuck's head who wants to take advantage of you.
    I can relate
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    Quote Originally Posted by fufuangeli View Post
    I completely disagree with it (as a girl.), just because a woman is drunk does not give an excuse for a guy to sexually assault her.

    Here's a fun story!

    It reminds me of what happened to me a little over a year ago, I was at a party in a friend's house, and this guy (who was actually really cute), kept hitting on me, but I wasn't interested in him at the time because I had a boyfriend. He didn't give up though. At around 4-5 a.m., people started to leave but he stayed along with a few friends. I was feeling tired so I excused myself to the guest room and laid down for a while (I wasn't drunk, but I admit I wasn't entirely sober either.) as I was falling alseep, I hear someone walking into the room, and SURPRISE! It was the guy who wa shitting on me earlier, he walked in quietly so I just pretended to be asleep so he left me alone.

    He started whispering stuff like "Sasha? Are you awake?"

    I didn't respond.

    Then I feel him sitting on the bed and (here comes the creepy part), he starts running his fingers down my back and hips, he does this for a few seconds before I turn around and say "What the fuck are you doing?" He just stands up, says "Nothing, sorry. Thought you were asleep." and leaves as if nothing happened. I should have told my friend at the time about the incident, but I was far too shocked and I really didn't tell anyone.

    Had I been truly drunk or passed out, I don't know what he would've done, regardless of one's state, sexual assault is not cool. To this day I still want to punch the guy in the face.

    Rape is rape, a drunk victim is often unable to defend him/herself, and there's no excuse for raping someone who was passed out either. That should never be acceptable. It's like blaming women of getting raped for what they were wearing. I do, however, advice women to not drink too much around strange men, even if it isn't your fault they raped you, it could happen, women are far more likely to get raped than men, and we are also naturally physically weaker as well (I don't care what you say, it's true. Most men are stronger than most women.). You just have to be careful. You never know what will run inside a sick fuck's head who wants to take advantage of you.
    "NOthing I thought you were asleep!!" As if that would make it ok?! WTF!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fufuangeli View Post
    I completely disagree with it (as a girl.), just because a woman is drunk does not give an excuse for a guy to sexually assault her.

    Here's a fun story!

    It reminds me of what happened to me a little over a year ago, I was at a party in a friend's house, and this guy (who was actually really cute), kept hitting on me, but I wasn't interested in him at the time because I had a boyfriend. He didn't give up though. At around 4-5 a.m., people started to leave but he stayed along with a few friends. I was feeling tired so I excused myself to the guest room and laid down for a while (I wasn't drunk, but I admit I wasn't entirely sober either.) as I was falling alseep, I hear someone walking into the room, and SURPRISE! It was the guy who wa shitting on me earlier, he walked in quietly so I just pretended to be asleep so he left me alone.

    He started whispering stuff like "Sasha? Are you awake?"

    I didn't respond.

    Then I feel him sitting on the bed and (here comes the creepy part), he starts running his fingers down my back and hips, he does this for a few seconds before I turn around and say "What the fuck are you doing?" He just stands up, says "Nothing, sorry. Thought you were asleep." and leaves as if nothing happened. I should have told my friend at the time about the incident, but I was far too shocked and I really didn't tell anyone.

    Had I been truly drunk or passed out, I don't know what he would've done, regardless of one's state, sexual assault is not cool. To this day I still want to punch the guy in the face.

    Rape is rape, a drunk victim is often unable to defend him/herself, and there's no excuse for raping someone who was passed out either. That should never be acceptable. It's like blaming women of getting raped for what they were wearing. I do, however, advice women to not drink too much around strange men, even if it isn't your fault they raped you, it could happen, women are far more likely to get raped than men, and we are also naturally physically weaker as well (I don't care what you say, it's true. Most men are stronger than most women.). You just have to be careful. You never know what will run inside a sick fuck's head who wants to take advantage of you.
    But a drunk man is responsible for his actions right? Giving woman ability to kill herself with alcohol and expecting everyone else to be responsible?
    What a load of crap.
    Hi everyone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrulj View Post
    But a drunk man is responsible for his actions right? Giving woman ability to kill herself with alcohol and expecting everyone else to be responsible?
    What a load of crap.
    Nobody is responsible for a drunk woman, but the woman BUT if a man was going to take advantage of a girl based on the fact she is asleep or has been drinking, than that surely can't be right, a blind drunk man wouldn't even have the foresight to rape a woman, his mind would be gone, you have to have your wits about you enough to even have the physical action abilities to do such a thing.
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